Bak Siu Lam "Tun Da"

[Sow Choy]

Just wanted to ask what the meaning of Tun Da in English is and if there is any info someone can give on this form...

I learned it from a student of GM Chan Kwok Wai (Brasil), nice form...

[David Jamieson]

tun ta = short strike

#6 of the core ten sets of bak sil lum.

This is generally the first of the 10 core sets a student learns in the style.

[SaekSan]

"Ta" can also be translated as "fight".

So it can be translated as "Short Fight" as well.

Duan Da (or Tun Ta) can be seen as a "short fight" when compared to the other ten core sets of BSL.

What kind of info are you looking for?

[Sow Choy]

Thanks for the replies...

I speak cantonese quite well...

but having no formal training in bak siu lam, so nout sure of the meaning of the name or if it has a significant relaation to any of the movements of if there is any other meaning/s...

Also if there is anything you all think should be known about this form...

Thanks for your replies

Joe

[David Jamieson]

well, there is lyrics or poetry that goes with the set.

here's a thread that talks about it:

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?threadid=12952&highlight=tun

and, each school has a slightly different flavour in performance.

It's a good set. I learned some bak sil lum sets at my formar school. Then I learned a few more in the last three years, I like the style, it's pretty demanding and has a lot of excellent kicks.

You could probably win a forms demo with a bak sil lum set. They are very appealing to watch.

cheers

[SaekSan]

There's a couple of books that have the set featured.

"Secrets of Northern ShaoLin Kung-Fu" by Lai Hung and Brian Klingborg (Tuttle Publishing) will give you a little history on the style, some basic exercises, a play-by-play of the set and some of its applications.

The other book is called "Kung Fu Shaolin do Norte" by Chan Kwok-wai and Ariovaldo F. A. Veiga (Editora Biopress). Now this book would probably match pretty close to what you learned since it was written by GM Chan and one of his close students. Problem is that it's in Portuguese, but if you get your hand on it at least the pictures will help you clarify any questions you might have on the postures.

As Kung Lek mentioned, each school has a different flavor for this set, if you are able to get both books you will see the differences between GM Lai's version and GM Chan's version.

Now as for the comment "if there is anything you all think should be known about this form...", well... think about this set as being a small part of a bigger picture. This set will give you a taste of BSL but the techniques are somewhat basic in comparison to the rest of the sets in the style.

:)

[David Jamieson]

I would say in regards to the "is there anything i should know" remark that you can also think of teh system of BSL as progressive. Each set builds towards the next and from the last.

So, as Tun Ta is the 6th set in the core ten, you are introduced to quite a few of the techs from the overall style. For instance, in #6 you do a 3/4 leg sweep, in the set that follows,#7, a full leg sweep. There are also revisitations and alternate spins on techs from the previous set.

I understand that the tenth set in the core sets is a collection of techniques that were put into the tenth set because they didn't fit anywhere else in the earlier progression.

It does contain techniques however that are undeniably "cool" :p
and unmistakeably Chinese martial arts.

[Sow Choy]

Thanks for your replies...

and the link helped a bit too

I really enjoy the little of BSL I know.

The training I have in GM Shek Kin's Northern Kung Fu is all I have to compare with, and my 1 BSL connection. He is very good though, while at Sao Paulo I observed some of GM Chan Kwok Wai's top students... they were very impressive, and my KF brother's BSL is just like theirs...

Again thanks...

Joe

[SifuAbel]

If you want some Bak Siu Lum info. Go to my teacher in N.Miami. He's a CKW line holder.

[Sow Choy]

Sifu Abel,

I know your sifu quite well, great guy... We don't see each other much since now I mainly am in WPB area (Boynton)...

Do you know Sifu Paul Fraga? He trained for 15 yrs under GM Chan in Brazil, but the language barrier is tough as you probably know...

Take Care...

Joe

[GeneChing]

This form is usually the first taught to the student and the most parallel of the BSL forms to what is now taught at Songshan Shaolin. When people are looking for overlap between these two Shaolin systems, BSL 6 is the one that presents the most.

[SifuAbel]

Yeah, the portugese is difficult. Too many au's and ain's.

Cool, I'll send regards from you to Sifu.

[David Jamieson]

Gene-

In regards to tun ta being close to what is taught at shaolin now...

Are you saying that because it's empirically true or because of the time you showed them(the monks) the set and they were excited about recognizing it as almost the same as what they were doing?

cheers

abel- siu, sil are the same. :D But...you probably know that already, so i'll be moving along.

[Sow Choy]

Sifu Abel,

Cool, pass him my email too: leekoonhungkungfu@hotmail.com tell him if he is gonna be my way drop a line...

I know the important stuff in Portugese... eu gusto de voce... all the pick up lines :p

Gene & Kung Lek...

The 2 times I was at Shaolin they were impressed by the Choy Lay Fut and knew right away it had come from Shaolin. And I myself saw alot of BL flavor in the forms. I trained at Shi Guulin's KF Brothers School. "Shaolin TV & Film Institute. Their KF was far ahead of some of the other schools I saw there, and I saw alot of traditional sets being practiced there...

But they told me for the shows no one wants to see the old stuff, they want them flying and flipping around... oh well... their traditional stuff was really nice...

Sifu Abel...

You goin to either Taji Legacy in Texas or John Leong's tournament in Seattle? MAybe we can meet up... If your in texas we will get Gene drunk and see his drunken form...

Peace,

Joe

[GeneChing]

...until it's too late. ;)

My BSL 6 comment originated not only from observations of the monks, it comes from studying the Songshan Shaolin forms. There are certain principles that are consistent. For example, traditional Songshan Shaolin always runs a straight line, moving to the left first, and ends with the Jinnaluo pose. BSL 6 obeys the same principles (as does a few other BSL forms like 1 & 10). Reread my piece on BSL vs. Shaolin (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=156) - I discussed this there. Beyond these observations, I'd add that there's a subjective parallel in the composition of BSL 6 that resonnates with the composition of many Songshan forms, at least to me. In a way, it sort of makes sense, since BSL 6 is the fundamental handset, the first to be taught, so it's the most well known and also the most consistent to it's roots. Of course, one can easily say that I'm just trying to justify/validate both systems out of personal bias.

[norther practitioner]

Gene, you're just trying to justify all of this out of personal bias.;)

[GeneChing]

But now that you've brought it up, is there anyone else here that has practiced both BSL and Songshan Shaolin? Have we discussed this before? It seems like we would have, but I can't remember - too many blows to the head keeps things fresh for me sometimes :p

[NorthernShaolin]

Well i do not know Song Shaolin so my observation would be conversely of what the monks had observed. In other words. I'm looking at it from the other end of the room.

Both styles share what Gene already mention. In addition to what was already said, the body mechanics of of how the power is generated by the waist from the horse to the limbs and how the kicks are executed are similar. Also how each set is composed with the main techniques being presented and are connected together by transitional techniques follows the same format. Lastly the balance of Yin and Yang principles in the composition of the set within itself as it related to body meachnics and overall breathing are the same.

[Sow Choy]

Ahhh...

Another question....

Are there ever any sounds made in BSL forms? If not, is there a method of breathing in the forms?

GM Chan Kwok Wai told me he does heavy Chi Kung practice daily in order for him to still practice his BSL forms and jump kicks. I just saw him recently in Vancouver perform a Baji set, very impressive...

Joe

[SaekSan]

The only sounds would be that of "slapping the foot", "smashing the fist" or any of the strikes to the body presented throughout the sets, such as the part toward the end of Kai Men Chuan (Koi Moon). There would be no equivalent to the southern tradition of a "focused shout" or the Japanese concept of ki-ai.

Breathing method - Should be deep and centered but not forced, the breath should be co-ordinated with your movement. When striking the breath is lead out when blocking the breath is lead in.

My master would tell us that when practicing we should keep in mind these principles:

"The mind must internalize and concentrate"
"The breath sinks to the Dan Tien"

BTW - Hello NothernShaolin! Hope you are doing well.

:)

[David Jamieson]

In all the Shaolin Kungfu I was taught, there are no shouts in any of it save one set from the southern stuff I was taught which contains a "Hi" sound drawn up from deep at one point in the set.

There are sounds in Tid sen of teh Hung Gar style as well which is also Shaolin in origin.

But in bsl, no sounds, just a relaxed face throughout and breath through the nose.

[GeneChing]

There's your breathing for BSL, in the eighteen iron body methods. That's the key to a lot of BSL, IMO.

This might annoy a lot of BSL people, but I do find Songshan Shaolin more advanced, deeper. There's a lot more coiling, akin to chansijing but different. There's more shen fa, more fajing, esepcially at the beginning levels. Now I think these elements exist in BSL, but they are not as pronounced.

[SaekSan]

The Iron Body methods are definately one component of the breathing exercises of BSL but I beleive Sow Choy was asking of breathing within the set or how to breathe while performing the set (correct me if I'm wrong).

Now, I don't find the comment annoying at all but it does bring up a question. You said:

"Now I think these elements exist in BSL, but they are not as pronounced"

Is it that they are not pronounced or is it that they are not developed (in depth) by the teachers/students?

What are your thoughts?

:)

[Starchaser107]

soooo...

if one shouts during the bsl forms is it considered

incorrect?

[David Jamieson]

well, not ifyou are doing the form and your cat knocks over the planter with your new azalia in it.

Then, if so inclined, one may shout...at the cat that is. :p

[Starchaser107]

Seriously?:(

[SaekSan]

It would be incorrect according to the method our school teaches...

:D

[herb ox]

...word up.

I give a shout at the end of BSL forms in the Jinnaluo (sp?) pose. I've seen Songshan exponents do the same, and frankly I don't care if it's right or wrong - there's a point where you want to show your power and focus, and bring attention to the final pose. Furthermore, since it's the last movement, it doesn't appear to be an issue of breath control (which, in BSL is "no control", or conscious timing of breath).

'sides, sometimes ya just gotta shout it out...


peace

herb ox

[Starchaser107]

I'm all for shouting...
but I don't see too many people doing it,
just wondered what the general position on this (shouting, or not) would be.
and if some bsl practicioners would look upon shouting during forms reproachfully with scorn in thier eyes and bitter distaste in thier mouths.

[Sow Choy]

The hero pose or "Jinaluo"...

Can anyone explain an application for it? Or is it just a tag?

Joe

[SaekSan]

"if some bsl practicioners would look upon shouting during forms reproachfully with scorn in thier eyes and bitter distaste in thier mouths."

That's funny! Hopefully none are so infantile to have such a reaction.

Herb Ox has a great point, do it if you feel like it or if you beleive it empowers your set.

We don't teach it that way but does it make it correct? Nope, it just makes it the way we teach it.

[Starchaser107]

aight then

[NorthernShaolin]

SaekSan, I fine and I hope you are too. Good to have you back on the fourm again.

Well...

Yes, shouting in BSL forms is considered incorrect if you are at the advance or intermideate level. Beginners can shout because their usually do not know any better. But really, shouting adds nothing to the BSL sets nor benifits the practionier. Old timers who practice BSL for a long time would just smile at the individual who shout while doing the set as it would demonstrate the lack of knowledge and understanding of BSL. I've heard many old masters of BSL say it is so silly to shout because all of the cultivating chi within the body is lost with one breath. (But if you think and feel it is cool to shout then go ahead.)

And shouting while performing a BSL set is not the way to demonstrate power. To demonstrate power in BSL is very different than other styles. The strong stances and the strong stomping in the beginning of the set demonstrates the power of the practionier. That is why all BSL sets have stomps somewhere in the beginning of each set.

Which bring the next point; demonstartion of shen fa, fajing and coiling in BSL are express differently as it is not observable to the untrained eye. Only the GM and masters can spot it. This is why the current Songshan Shaolin sets are an elementary form of shaolin as compared to BSL. These sets contain too much "Yang" techniques and there is no balance of "Yin" techniques. This may have been done on purpose to attract people to learn these sets because of the observable and preceived power in the sets.

Someone who has invested long years in BSL will perform a BSL set very fluid and he will not demostrate any observable power at all. These individuals are the real true masters of BSL, not the ones who show raw power in their punches and kicks, like what Westerners like to see in sets. (If your sifu does, then he doing it for a reason and you can figure out why he's doing it yourselves.)

BSL sets are more of a natural flowing style that has blended together the natural energies of the human body. In other words, the BSL sets contain the perfect balance of Yin and Yang movements. Such extreme expression of Shen fa, fajing and coiling are unnatural and if these particular elements are not done properly, it will result in seriously deep body damage. As one grows old, very few individuals can express these elements correctly while doing Songshan Shaolin sets while a majority of individuals in BSL can be perform their sets into their 90's with no problems at all. This alone says alot.

Does it not make sense to do sets that feel natural and encourages good health in the body rather than sets that are unnatural and places a stress on the body parts?

As for breathing, SaekSan is correct in what he states. But one word of advice...do not concentrate on breathing while doing the sets. Individuals who do this will not make much progress. One of the unique qualities of BSL is that the breathing is very natural and your breathing will naturally adjusts to your body movements. This is because the way the BSL sets are composed. Each set contains the perfect blend of Yin and Yang movements that allows your chi and spirit to catch up to your body movements and thus allows the balance of the chi and the spirit.

The hero pose or "Jinaluo" is not just a signature or tag of Shaolin. There are several application for this technique and I leave this for others to explain.

I just wanted to clarifiy the topics that were spinning around and were going nowhere.

[Starchaser107]

it gets interestinger. thank you nortnernshaolin.

does anyone have anything more to add/refute ?

[David Jamieson]

I agree with NS actually, how could you not...

But, he is definitely speaking with some bias :D

Like Gene...hahahahahaha

BSL is a real good style though, what I know of it I enjoy very much to practice. I only know 5 core sets and the two prelims, but give me a little more time and I'll get some more of that into me.

[herb ox]

NorhternShaolin said: "Beginners can shout because their usually do not know any better. "

... true 'dat - I am the perpetual beginner!

He also said: "And shouting while performing a BSL set is not the way to demonstrate power. "

I agree, and that's why I wait til the very last movement. My Sifu never taught us to shout, I claim complete responsibility for this one... I mean, we do need some room for independent research and experimentation, right?

Do you think the monks lose their qi with their final shouts?

peace out

h. ox

[SaekSan]

Thank you once again for your insight and knowledge on the subject NS.

"Yes, shouting in BSL forms is considered incorrect if you are at the advance or intermideate level. Beginners can shout because their usually do not know any better."

I definately agree with your statement. Let me clarify my earlier one. If one is studying the style in depth (under a Shifu that is giving full transmission) it would be incorrect (from the BSL principles) to shout while performing a BSL set. I beleive that any BSL teacher would reprimand their student for doing so (I would). However, if one is a casual student and they're just learning the set for fun or to add to their style shouting would not be considered incorrect because the student is not adhering to the principles of the BSL method. Therefore correct or incorrect would not matter because the set is not being practiced or performed with BSL principles in mind... which leads to the comment:

"Old timers who practice BSL for a long time would just smile at the individual who shout while doing the set as it would demonstrate the lack of knowledge and understanding of BSL."

How true... how true...

:)

[Starchaser107]

well isn't it special that someone felt the need to actually not sit idly by smiling and make an informative comment that may actually help folks out and clear stuff up.

i know this board isn't as hyperactive as others. and i'm grateful that i managed to get a clear response so soon.

being the inquisitive person that i am, I'm curious if n.s's views are unchallenged, or are there old bsl masters that adhere to different principles.

thank u, i enjoy learning.

[GeneChing]

I think Herb Ox brings up an very interesting idea, something that I've been working on personally - fusing Songshan Shaolin and BSL. The shout in Hero's pose (and that's a very dense move, sow choy, lots of apps, still haven't got to the bottom of that well) is always done in Songshan, but never in BSL. But it can work in BSL. I personally don't agree that shouting makes you lose the qi. That flies in the face of anyone whose tried sanda, muay thai, karate, kendo, oh heck, there's even kiai-do. It really depends how you shout. It can be quite qi generating.

As for the different expression of some of the elements I mentioned earlier, I did state that to be a bit incendiary. Things were getting a little boring, so I figured I'd stir the pot a little. ;) Of course, I'm a big proponent of BSL - it's my root style. And I'll note that many of the older Songshan GMs might look a little more like BSL when they demonstrate. But they can still do it, Songshan style, that is, well in to their autumn years. There you are incorrect, NorthernShaolin. On the flip side, many young BSL enthusiasts look like their doing 'old man' kung fu, if you will. They never enjoy that youthful yang explosiveness you might see in BSL. I see both elements in Songshan. I only see one in BSL.

[NorthernShaolin]

Gene,

Actually you do agree with me in your statement.

{And I'll note that many of the older Songshan GMs might look a little more like BSL when they demonstrate. But they can still do it, Songshan style, that is, well in to their autumn years. }

My point exactly. It still SongShan but it is not like when they could do it 20 years ago. In BSL it would be the same.


As for the youth doing BSL with yang explosiveness, sure they can do this anytime they want but it is their choice if they want to do real BSL or not. They have to learn to understand that BSL is not about raw power but about a balance between Yang and Yin. They have to look to their role model who is really their sifu and that really depends if his sifu has reached his own full potential and truly understands all the deep mysteries of BSL.

To reach one's full potential in any style, it is a long journey and that's why BSL is an excellent choice to learn, study and practice into the advancing years because as your body changes with age, your body does not have to change to continue to practice it.


{That flies in the face of anyone whose tried sanda, muay thai, karate, kendo, oh heck, there's even kiai-do.}

I'm also not saying these other styles or systems cannot develop their chi but only that they loose most of their chi when they shout. Other TCMA like Ch'a, Hua, and even Tam T'ui and internal CMA like Pa Kua, Hsing -i and Tai Chi do not shout. There is a very good reason why....cultivation.

[mickey]

Greetings All,

NorthernShaolin, I do understand what you are saying about shouting, especially those currently in vogue; but, there is a type of shouting that compresses the tan tien, forcing the chi out to the extremities. It is not a loud type type of shouting, some use the Hen or Ha sounds.

mickey

[mickey]

Oops,

I am not talking about Bak Sil Lum. Other martial disciplines.

mickey

[NorthernShaolin]

Mickey,

I was not refering to those sounds.

[r.(shaolin)]

Under the pressure and stress of combat you will fight like you train.
Combatively speaking, shouting is a very bad habit to get into. It is a good
way to get your tongue caught between you teeth or have your jaw
dislocated. Frankly 'old school' Shaolin had it right. Don't shout.

Here is a bit of ancient street advice - the best time to hit
someone in the jaw is when they're shouting.

Northern Shaolin, our lineage of northern Shaolin does not have
shouting neither, in fact my teacher was very critical of it.

As far as shen fa, fajing and coiling, very effective and very much part of Shaolin but I think that the 'exaggerated' versions, like the shouting, structurally unsound stances, etc. have more to do with audience appeal than with effectiveness.

r.

[NorthernShaolin]

r.

I agree with you 100%. Shen fa, fajing and coiling is very effective and is part of shaolin but should not be obvious. If it is, then it is for show boating.

[Lokhopkuen]

"many young BSL enthusiasts look like their doing 'old man' kung fu, if you will. They never enjoy that youthful yang explosiveness you might see in BSL. I see both elements in Songshan. I only see one in BSL."

I have seen a lot of NSL practitioners some I like some I ignore. It's interesting one of my students who is studying in Taiwan for a year recently participated in a competition and swept first place in all of his events against some pretty stiff competition. When people asked what style he practiced they were surprised to learn it was Gu Yu Cheong's Northern Shaolim as many had heard of it but never seen it. It seems he was rather powerful and explosive in comparison to some of the Song Shan stylist in his division.....

Comparing styles in this way on an open discussion Internet forums does stimulate conversation but creates a certain tone of disharmony amongst the contributors. After all a punch is just a punch a kick just a kick the difference is in the training methods, You are however entitled to your opinion. I happen to like the way you play your gung fu and I respect the wide breadth your knowledge. ( Talk some crap now after a compliment like that hehe!)

Gene many of my classmates and I have been with our teacher 20 + years, we all complain about getting old but in reality we move better and better, stronger and healthier thanks to the Matrix of our practice and it’s ever exponentially expanding demands. My teacher is almost 60 and moves like a teenager. Although many things impressed me in what I saw at Song Shan the flavor of contemporary Wu Shu permeated and left a funny taste in my mouth. Northern Shaolim is never dull, pathetic or lacking in explosive power when one uses the eight skills and twelve methods cipher as their guide.


The Eight Skills:
Hand
Eye
Body
Leg
Breath
Postures
Skills acquired
Gong fu (time, practice, patience and hard work)

The essence of the eight skills is contained in the following poem:
Swing the fists as fast as a meteor flies
Move your eyes as quickly as lightning
Twist your waist as a snake
Root your feet firmly to the ground
Be full of energy
Be calm and patient
Use your strength naturally
Achieve your Gong Fu successfully

The Twelve Methods of practice:
Act as powerful as a sea wave or as quiet as a mountain,
Jump as swiftly as a monkey does,
Fall as quickly as a bird flying down,
Stand as firm as a rooster and straight as a pine tree,
Turn as a wheel revolves and bend with the flexibility of a bow,
Be as light as a leaf or heavy as a piece of iron,
Be as slow as an eagle that hovers in the air and as fast as the wind blows.

I practice and teach NSL sincierly from the heart everyday with the above principles as one of my many guides.

Peace

[David Jamieson]

I have heard this "punch is a punch and kick is a kick" many times.

It is only recently that I have come to the conclusion that this is not true at all.

Training methods mostly lean towards correct alignment and proper mechanical structure, but although these are very important, power and speed are very different.

So, I have come to know that a punch is not the same from two different people and neither are kicks. Even when both have proper structure, there is a difference in power.

I do not think personally that style or training has anything to do with this power. I think it is more intent in the person which will make the kick or punch powerful.

Intent is something that is innate in this example of use of force. It cannot really be trained, but it can be refined.

Just an observation... going off topic for a second.

cheers

[Starchaser107]

mountain is mountain and river is river

mountain is not mountain and river is not river

mountain is mountain and river is river

[GeneChing]

Now clearly there is shouting done within Songshan Shaolin at the performances and too heighten the drama - wushu flair and exxageration of some of the qualities I mentioned earlier, like explosiveness, you see it a lot. But the key phrase here is that these are based on the performances, and that is only one aspect of Songshan. The traditional shouts, specifically the 'hui' sound shouted during the final hero's pose, is qi generating, akin to a kiai in the Japanese arts. It doesn't happen in the mouth, so it doesn't affect jaw vulnerability. It happens in the dantien. You may hear improvised grunts and such during performances, but that's an individual interpretation, not part of the tradition. That's different from the 'hui'. And this is a big part of my point with all of this. I'm not trying to say that Songshan is better than BSL - I wouldn't say that about any style. I might say that a certain style is better for me, but it's not the style, it's the individual. It's really what's most appropriate for the individual practitioner. That being said, my point is that Songshan has more range - more diversity. You can see most all the properties in BSL, plus a lot more. Now this actually makes it less appropriate if you don't have as much time to devote to it. I personally find both systems great, but too big for me, much to big for my daily practice. BSL has a lot of forms and some big ones, plus all the iron body stuff - I just don't have the time at this point in my life to keep it up. Songshan is even worse that way, since it's a much broader system. Although right now, for me PERSONALLY, I'm finding more within Songshan than BSL. That may change in the future. I don't like to be limited to one style, much worse a single resource point, but that's again, that's an individual choice.

[Lokhopkuen]

When speaking of the essence of punch or kick being just a punch or kick, I am speaking in the broader sense like all swords are the same and that sameness is achieved through the study of various schools/ training methods ie. Samurai, Dao, Gim, Halberd. When you have learned many sword sets you will find that ANYTHING can be a sword so all are the same. Some schools teach how to incapacitate with a punch or kick some how to kill with the same, the difference is in the intention. A Karate Master can punch and kill you so can a Gung Fu Master or any Brand name that precedes Mastery. Some training methods are more efficient than others, I find NSL to be highly efficient and effective so there is where I live.
Hell I am just ranting! Maybe when you reach my level of confusion you might be as nearly as confused...

Peace

[Lokhopkuen]

As far as yelling goes (as related to NSL) in my personal experience while practicing the long form (1-10) I have found myself "reaching deep" for reserves of strength consciously and unconsciously using the “Heng & Ha” “Ha & Tha” sounds in my shouts to raise my spirit. I don't recall my teacher encouraging or discouraging me from yelling. I'll have to ask him how he feels about the yell in the traditional form.

Peace

[Shaolinlueb]

Originally posted by Lokhopkuen
"many young BSL enthusiasts look like their doing 'old man' kung fu, if you will. They never enjoy that youthful yang explosiveness you might see in BSL. I see both elements in Songshan. I only see one in BSL."

I have seen a lot of NSL practitioners some I like some I ignore. It's interesting one of my students who is studying in Taiwan for a year recently participated in a competition and swept first place in all of his events against some pretty stiff competition. When people asked what style he practiced they were surprised to learn it was Gu Yu Cheong's Northern Shaolim as many had heard of it but never seen it. It seems he was rather powerful and explosive in comparison to some of the Song Shan stylist in his division.....

I see that a lot just with any Kung Fu.
So many people look like they walk through their forms, no eyes, no energy, nothing. That is why I like songshan too. but At our school we perform everything with shaolin spirit, even our eagle claw. most people gripe at it, but its still fast and explosive.

[Starchaser107]

why do most people gripe at it?

[Shaolinlueb]

Originally posted by Starchaser107
why do most people gripe at it?

people gripe because i guess "traditional" Lau family eagle claw isnt suppossed to be so low, and have the shaolin energy. I guess its suppossed to be very fast like an eagle. and the stances tend to be higher I believe.

we tend to slow it down and show the movements more clearly the make the applications more "devestating" (only word i could think of without using clear again.)

correct me if I'm wrong please.

[Starchaser107]

it's odd that the only eagle practitioners i know here are myself and you and we're both shang tung.
would be interesting to get perspective from the other side of things.