ATTN. Tagatha

[Sihing73]

Hello,

While I find it commendable that you are proud of who you are and can respect your individuality I feel that you are stirring the pot so to speak with your attachment of the "flag" in some of your posts. You may have noticed that I deleted this attachment. I will continue to do so and if it becomes too dificult to follow up on each and every one of your posts I will ban you from this forum.

As I stated before, this is a Wing Chun forum. We come here to discuss this art and not to put forth any of our own viewpoints regarding religion, sexual orientation etc. I believe that some may find your "attachment" a bit hard to swallow :)

In the interest of maintaining some sense of civility on this forum I will request that you restrict your postings to Wing Chun and related matters, just as everyone has to. If you can not discuss Wing Chun without adding anything "personal" which some may find offensive or disurbing then please feel free to post eleswhere.

As always anyone wishing to discuss this matter further may contact me directly at either of the following email addresses:
Sihing73@Juno.Com or dmcknight@rcn.com

Peace,

Dave

[Sihing73]

Hello All,

I have received a couple of emails regarding this posting and I wish to clarify a couple of things.

I am not against gays and in way am I trying to restrict anyone from posting to this board. I am including the body of an email I replied to someone about this which I hope will make my position clear.

[First off I would like to thank you for taking the time to contact me regarding this issue. It is obvious that this is important to you and you deserve an honest and fair response.

First let me clarify one thing, you mentioned the post about Jasbourne being a Hot Girl not being offensive. If you remember that post you should also recall that I deleted the topic and posted a message regarding inappropriate posts. I did this because, I felt and still do, that this topic was inappropriate.

In the same vein I feel that posts which promote a specific religious view or sexual orientation really have no place on a Wing Chun forum. The simple fact is that the subject of ****sexuality is touchy at best with the potential of becoming ugly. Whether this is in the form of bashing or of presenting ones views in a manner which forces people to accept or reject them. In my opinion the attachment did nothing to promote the art of Wing Chun nor foster unity and brotherhood but instead created more of a division forcing people to take sides and igniting emotions better left alone.

I can appreciate your feelings and I do not want you to think that I am trying to send a message about "gays" not being wanted or allowed on the board. What I am sending is a message that everyone must abide by the same rules. Just as I would not allow someone to promote Nazism, Judaism, Islam etc I see no reason to allow someone to flaunt their sexual preference. In my opinion ones sexual, religious or whatever preferences are best kept to oneself. If you find someone receptive to your views then fine but to flaunt it, especially when one knows the result is likely to be met with antagonism merits little value. In keeping with the most common teachings of most martial arts I would think that conflict avoidance would make more sense.

My position is simply this; This forum is for the benefit of people wishing to discuss and learn about the art of Wing Chun. It is not Dave Mcknights medium for spouting my personal beliefs no more than anyone elses. If a subject is likely to cause enmity then it is my duty, as a moderator, to do what I can to diffuse the situation. If that requires me to lean towards the seeming majority then this is what I will do. Bottom line, if it is not Wing Chun related then it does not need to be seen on the forum. There is some leeway, I am not trying to be a dictator but I feel that I have a responsibility to head off any potential problems as best I can. If I err in my judgement then I hope I will learn from my mistakes.

As to the board being one of a "****phobic" bent I am not sure I would totaly agree with you. I think that people on this board are willing to accept most others despite differences. However, I do not think anyone likes to have anything, even things they may agree with, shoved down their throat.

I hope this is helpful. I again am not trying to restrict anyone from posting on this board. I only ask that you keep it related to Wing Chun.}

Peace,

Dave

[studentsifu]

Dave, the mere fact that you consider me putting a rainbow flag at the end of my posts "FORCING" my ****sexuality upon you??
From reading your posts, I thought you seemed more intelligent than that. I thought you beyond ****phobia.
It is sad that you can't even look at a flag that represents ****sexuality without feeling threatened. This is a sure sign of ****phobia.
What if I put this flag at the end of every post, Dave?

**[Sihing73 removed the flag for the same reasons as the other. It does not have anything to do with Wing Chun and there are others on the board who could possibly take offense. This board is not for the promotion of any one lifestyle nor country but for the promotion and betterment of Wing Chun. FWIW I fought for the flag I removed but I still feel it has no place here. There is no profit in continuing to remain divided. Our art has suffered enough with the petty bickering revolving around our "differences" rather than allowing us to come together as one.]**

Will you feel threatened??
Regardless, I will do what you requested and keep the symbol of what I am off of your forum, because it threatens you so.

-Tathagata

[This message was edited by Tathagata on 06-29-01 at 08:44 AM.]

[This message was edited by Sihing73 on 06-29-01 at 10:25 AM.]

[Rolling Elbow]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that rainbow flag..if you are afraid of colours because they imply something then perhaps you should rethink your approach to social relations. He is expressing who he is in a subtle manner. There has been no reference to "gay" subjects since he removed the pic. The pic was offensive and annoying, the rainbow triangle is actually kind of cool from the visual perspective. Triangles make me think of my footwork as well as the female/male footwork patterns in the FMA.

Give the guy a break, the triangle is a cool symbol..if the colours bug you that much, just think of Dorothy and the poor old wizard.

Michael Panzerotti
Taijutsu Nobody from the Great White North..

[BeiKongHui]

Dave's a reasonable guy who can teach us all a lot and he has always answered any questions I've had. I don't think his problem is with the Pride flag but rather with someone pushing a non-Wing Chun agenda. I personally am not bothered by the flag although I find most of my gay friends growing up went through the "loud & proud" stage not to long after coming out and once they became more mature and comfortable with themselves the felt less of a need to advertise their orientation. That being said I think Sihing73 is doing the right thing. I can't imagine the chaos if every poster had a pride flag, jesus fish, etc. We'd all be so busy arguing over that we wouldn't have time to argue over Wing Chun. :)

We need more unity in the Wing Chun family not more conflict.

My .02, BKH

"Gong Sao Mo Gong Ching Sao"
- When you talk with the hands,
best not to speak of polite hands.

[studentsifu]

BKH,
But the fact is, everyone on this forum didn't post a flag or symbol. I came along and posted a triangle and suddenly it is a big deal.
What is sad is that someone like Sihing73, who is supposedly an advanced practitioner of Wing Chun, is threatened by a symbol. And this sybmol has nothing to do with hate, or mistreating others, it simply says that I am gay.
Regardless, I am going to stick to the topics of Wing Chun and not post the triangle because it threatens him so.
-Tathagata

[This message was edited by Sandman2[Wing Chun] on 06-29-01 at 10:03 AM.]

[Sihing73]

Hello Tagatha,

I would rather you email me directly rather than continue to waste this boards bandwidth with this issue. Having said that, this will, I hope, be my final say on this matter.

I am sorry that you feel I am ****phobic. Whether or not this is true is not a subject for this forum. I will only say that I am secure in who I am and really am not threatened by your choice of a lifestyle. If I felt that your attachments were directed at me then I would care less what you posted. However, the point is that there are many other people on this board. Some will support you while others will take offense. Rather than continue any subject which could potentialy cause problems it seems more prudent to cease the behavior. I am grateful that you have decided, from your posting, to cease attaching the various symbols. As to your question about posting the American Flag; IMHO, this is also inappropriate. There are many on this board who are not Americans. Some may even dislike America. To allow the American Flag to be posted simply continues the same pattern which I would like to end. Besides, it really does not have anything to do with Wing Chun either ;).

Tagatha, if you ever find yourself in Philadelphia and would like to discuss Wing Chun you are more than welcome to look me up. I say this is the spirit of brotherhood and not as a threat. I welcome anyone who has a real interest in the art and wishes to share and practice. However, ones personal views have no real place in this forum. I have friends who practice martial arts, some Islamic, some Jewish, some gay. Guess what, when we train we train! I don't try to convince them my views are right nor do they try to convince me. This is what I am trying to get at here. Rather then do anything to perpetuate the hatred and bickering is'nt it better to just move on? To make a small concession that will allow the majority to concentrate on the subject we are supposed to be here for, rather then to be redirected to another less edifying area?

Now perhaps we can get back to the subject of Wing Chun.

Peace,

Dave

[Rolling Elbow]

Kudos to all of you, no insults, good open dialogue..now i have a question for you WC unners.

I have messed around with Wing Chun and I think my question appliues to all our arts. What happens when you go from chi sao or yielding exercises to fighting opponents who are really stiff and DON'T yield. I find I can't redirect jack. All i see as a possibility is hard hitting or limb destructions in teh hopes of "softening" the opponent up so that you can apply techniques..valid? how do u guys handle this.

We can move this to main forum if u like.

Michael Panzerotti
Taijutsu Nobody from the Great White North..

[Spark]

Yeah, right ...

Triangles / Pyramids are commonly referred to in Wing Chun, I could thus argue that the triangle is WC related!! Bring back the triangle!!!!!

[studentsifu]

Sihing73,
If I am ever that way I would love to hook up with you! (for Wing Chun of course)
And regardless of the reasons why, I will respect your wish and keep the rainbow stuff off of this forum.

Rolling Elbow,
That is a hard question. I experienced much the same thing after doing techniques in class as a Wing Chun beginner and then going outside of class and discovering some things were harder to do agianst a non-WC practitioner who wasn't playing the same game.
I think you have to alter things some when messing around with a non-WC, stiff and rigid person. I concentrate more on making my movements real touch and go, istead of sticky and soft and flowing. The moment I feel some rigid, hard energy, I whip around it and go in for the kill.
Sometimes I have trouble explaining techniques in writing, does what I said make any sense?

-Tathagata

[Watchman]

>>>What happens when you go from chi sao or yielding exercises to fighting opponents who are really stiff and DON'T yield.<<<

When they're really stiff and don't yield it's actually a lot easier to lay the smackdown on them.

It's a matter of proper footwork and body weight shifting that will put you on an angle that gets your hands through on the outside of their arms, plus the proper "springy" energy in your own arms that will wedge through, circle, or hinge around what they are trying to do.

If you're just standing in place trying to use your arms only and going toe-to-toe with someone who is stiff, or outstrenghts you, you're going to have a tough time.

http://www.wckfc.com/masters/man/Sec2-1.GIF

Not to tire of learning is wisdom;
Not to weary of teaching is benevolence.
-- Tzu-kung

[BeiKongHui]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Yeah, right ...
Triangles / Pyramids are commonly referred to in Wing Chun, I could thus argue that the triangle is WC related!! Bring back the triangle!!!!! [/quote]

So if I put the Swastica, or Confederate flag in a triangle it is Wing Chun related? Yeah, that makes lot's of sense. Do you even know what that flag is? The triangle has nothing to do with it, Tag just happened to post the colors in that shape. (eh) ;)

"Gong Sao Mo Gong Ching Sao"
- When you talk with the hands,
best not to speak of polite hands.