kung fu vs untrained

[william]

There is a lot of talk about, kung fu vs MMA.

But one would hope that if you had an unwanted encounter on the street, uni, college bar what ever, it would be with someone who was not trained in a MA due to the side effects like, dicipline, etc.

So does the ma training make a difference against an untrained person?

For instance, I am a relative beginner In the MAs. I used to do Tae Kwon Do when I was 12, did it for a year. and quit. I picked it up at about 16 and did it for about another year or two, the en part of that was with a quite a progressive TKD style, they encorperated quite a lot of grappling which I liked. I then found a wing chun school and got hooked, practiced for about a year and a half, but due to lack of students it closed. After that I couldn't go back to a TKD school, So then I just trained alone for about 2 years, just going over the stuff I had learned in a year, trying not to lose what I had gainned, then went to university, did aikido for a bit, but packed it in when i found a kung fu school which teaches wing chun, mantis and choy la fut. I have been going twice a week now for about ten months, I am loving it and progressing well due to my previous training.

Aside for the MA I do a lot of bodyweight training and some lifting, I am bout 5'11 and 12 stone and like to think I am quite fit.

So my point Is I like to think I would have the upper hand in a situation where I was faced with an untrained opponent about my wieght and height.

I have never been in a real fight before, and lets just say that the hypothetical opponent hasn't either,

would I have edge to win?

W

Any responces would be greatly appreciated,

W

[unkokusai]

Originally posted by william

I have never been in a real fight before, and lets just say that the hypothetical opponent hasn't either,

would I have edge to win?



If you've never been in a fight, the chances that you'll get into a fight with someone who has never been in a fight are not great I think. If you are older than ten or so.

[william]

Ok fair enough,

say opponent has had a scuffel, look what I am trying to get a is that forget Bjj vs shaolin, would you be better off in fight which MA training??


sound like a silly question i know due to them being called Martial arts, but with all this reality training etc sometimes I wander.

I know a lot of it has to do with mental attitude, but just leave that out and think of plain physical skill.

Or is it completely useless, like you would be better of just being f**ing agressive,

[Apostol]

If you've watched videos of what real fights are like, trained your techniques to be in muscle memory, and trained your mindset half-decently, you'll do just fine. Especially with a style like choy li fut and mantis.

In CLF you can just flail your arms around and kill them that way (heh), in WC you can just chain punch them until they stop moving.

But yeah, you're on a good path. Especially with good systems like those, and not the mcdojo "block the punch and then own them, thats how the fight is" type place.


But if you're as "fit" as you say you are, you'd win anyway.

[CaptinPickAxe]

If you've watched videos of what real fights are like, trained your techniques to be in muscle memory, and trained your mindset half-decently, you'll do just fine

This untrue. You can do as much forms and techniques as you want, but with out full contact sparring when the first hit lands you'll realize. "Oh, Sh!t. I have to change my plan because ol' buddy is on me like stink on sh!t." Also, if you've never been hit full force you'll be in shock after the first good one is landed. Only for a second, but thats enough time to exploit your weakness and put a serious hurting on you.

If your serious about wanting to fight, Spar. Plain and simple. That is the only way to prepare for a fight...just fight.

If 100% sparring is too much for you, then work your way up from 50%...get comfortable...then move on.

[william]

What about the old self defence line, I guess one of the main reason for practicing MAs? Not wanting to be the best fighter, but wanting to be the best at dealing with confrontational situations, in so far as you come away with as least damage as possible, I guess their is a lot of ego involved with walking away from a fight.

I know in my original post i spoke about being able to handle my self in a fight, and you are right, but then would MA training give you a better chance at getting that crusial first blow?, or even doing something about one of his that is coming at ya?

So I think perhaps self defence and fighting are different.

To win 'fights' you need to spar hard etc, but perhaps not to defend yourself? I know it would be best to anyway but let me illustrate my point:

I read in a magazine a letter from someone who was getting ****ed off with people saying you are not going be able to defened yourself effectively unless you have pressure trained, u know full contact, adrenalin dump , etc etc. He quotes the example of a woman who had done a bit of kung fu, but still in the very early stages of training like a few months or so, who was approached by two men who asked her for her bag, b4 she had a chance to reply one of the men went for her, she responed by hitting the guy as hard as she could in the throat which sent him to the floor sharpish, the other went to help him and she legged it. when asked how she had got off such a good shot she said that it was an accident, and that she was aiming for his nose!

Effective self defence without full contact sparring?I guess she was lucky but you see what I am trying to say?

I for instance would like to have a go at full contact, just to see how I would fare, but it doesn't happen at my club, surely a big part of winning fights is self confidence, will to win? (and obviously training...) but better to think if sh*t is starting to hit the fan, "I am gona give this guy a beat down", than think "F*** its all over, I haven't sparred full contact"

??

W

W

[Apostol]

Yeah, I forgot sparring.

[CaptinPickAxe]

MA can help you get the first blow, but just because you get it doesn't mean the fight is one. Rarely do fights end in a single punch. Usually the ones that do are sucker punches.

[SevenStar]

I agree with cap on this one. MA training may or may not mean squat. Two of the biggest factors are mindset and circumstance. If he has a "kill you" mindset and you don't, you may not be prepared to deal with him. If he's already got a brick, knife, etc. in his hand, you may not be prepared to deal with him.

Theoretically, MA should give you more of a chance, but that's not necessarily so.

[reemul]

that ever since I brought the term "mindset" to the forums it is being used correctly.

Any way I would just like to add Untrained does not mean unskilled. There are plenty of "natural athetes" that can open a can of whoop a$$.

[SevenStar]

?

I've been using that term for years.

[LEGEND]

"Any way I would just like to add Untrained does not mean unskilled. There are plenty of "natural athetes" that can open a can of whoop a$$."

CORRECT...the hope is that your CMA training can give u the "natural athele" mindset and conditioning also.

[CD Lee]

Heck yes, and absolutely MA training will make a huge difference. Have you guys ever seen untrained fighters flailing like girls, with these wide weak punches? Hey maybe the guy you fight can throw a decent punch, but there are a ton of guys that can't. Even if they hit you, if you see it coming it may shock you, but it usually won't be a KO type punch.

My point is this. If you have the technique to throw say, a straight punch that is coordinated during practice, and is fairly well grooved, then you got something to work with better than you had before. That punch, even if you are scared ****tless, will be superior to a wide punch from another ****ed, scared guy with bad technique.

Ask yourself this question. Could you throw punches better than you could before you took MA? Then it helps, even if you get trashed in a fight. What were you gonna do before MA training? Let him hit you more?

[KingMonkey]

An untrained 120lb asthmatic accountant probably, an untrained 200lb construction worker who's been in a few scraps not so likely.
You dont know who or what you're going to meet. People tend to want absolutes but there are none.
Your current MA training should improve your chances, but following the advice of some of the previous posters in terms of incorporating more alive training would improve them further IMHO.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by CD Lee
My point is this. If you have the technique to throw say, a straight punch that is coordinated during practice, and is fairly well grooved, then you got something to work with better than you had before. That punch, even if you are scared ****tless, will be superior to a wide punch from another ****ed, scared guy with bad technique.

You can't assume he will be scared. As I stated in my post, mindset and circumstance mean everything. MA should give you a fighting chance - more of one than you had before - but will not guarantee anything.

[CD Lee]

I understand your point well.

Let me restate in another way. Any MA techinque should improve any untrained fighter. Of course that doesn't mean the next guy you go up against will not be a better fighter.

So no, MA does not guarantee a person the ability to beat an untrained fighter. It does however help a LOT, for a person to be able to fight, that had no fighting technique previously.

One exception on that front. Take a person who can already fight pretty well, at least decently without any MA training. If this person takes a MA for a while, and begins overthinking things, his abilitiy in a real fight may actually decrease. If he does A, I do B, if he does B, I do C, etc, etc. This can be a real problem for a person who already had a clear mind before MA. When I say clear mind, I mean before formal training, when in a fight, you pick your targets, and get to them anyway you can---> no preciceived techniques, just intention and action.

I am not saying all MA schools teach this way, but unfortunately, some do.

[KaiKhoon]

Excellent point Lee.

MA will also add confidence to your fighting, and I believe that is a factor of some percentage.

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by unkokusai
If you've never been in a fight, the chances that you'll get into a fight with someone who has never been in a fight are not great I think. If you are older than ten or so.


sparring is invaluable......increases confidence, consitution and allows for practice of unexpected events and other variables...................

[SunBeam]

Martial Arts training, sparing, and conditioning help open the "possibilities" during a confrontation. Indeed are many variables that come up in a fight. Mindset has some infuence. I would have a different mindset on fighting if a guy was trying to hit on my girl and acting like a butt than if someone was trying to carjack me. You can be naturally inclined to defend and fight with natural moves that you have been accustom to and yes, you may come out ahead. For me, my study in MA has opened my mind to other ways to accomplish things. It can also validate some of what you already know there by increasing your confidence. A lot of guys I know would not even think about elbowing or short low kicks unless they have been exposed to some type of MA training. The old adage about "Any Given Sunday" in some respects is true but even if you miss the mark like the lady in the "I was aiming for the nose" analogy, being prepare (trained) afforded her the thought process and reflex to react period were she may have not tried at all with out it.

- SunBeam

[blooming lotus]

it's important to know how , but when and in what capacity is the question??????????????

[Aqira]

Martial arts provide an understanding and if trained right it instills improved habits. Being able to see, understand, and utilize possibilities and options is the primary advantage.

Also the preparation of training connects mind and body in violent situations. You do have to spar or have some means of doing…like anything there is the mental knowing and the physical knowing and martial arts training can offer both as well as a proven way to connect them.

As far as confidence…I think it is more important that through the training once you get past the initial infatuation you start to get a more realistic understanding of physical violence and confrontation. At any point realistic is one of the key words.

[Dark Knight]

At any point realistic is one of the key words.

The closer to reality your training is the better off you will be.

[YongChun]

Originally posted by CD Lee
I understand your point well.

<...some deleted...>
One exception on that front. Take a person who can already fight pretty well, at least decently without any MA training. If this person takes a MA for a while, and begins overthinking things, his abilitiy in a real fight may actually decrease. If he does A, I do B, if he does B, I do C, etc, etc. This can be a real problem for a person who already had a clear mind before MA. When I say clear mind, I mean before formal training, when in a fight, you pick your targets, and get to them anyway you can---> no preciceived techniques, just intention and action.

I am not saying all MA schools teach this way, but unfortunately, some do.

I do know of a case where someone was a pretty good fighter then studied Karate for awhile and after that could no longer fight because his natural fighting instincts got surpressed.

There is another story of a guy in Japan who was a very good swordfighter. Then one day he decided to study formally under a top Japanese swordsman. Years went by. Then after that he no longer had the courage he had before. Before he was unaware of the thousands of ways he could be killed off. Now he was very worried.

Of course in both cases if the individual stayed much longer then the situation may again reverse.

[blooming lotus]

learning is a never ending process, there'll always be a better and always be a worse........ BTW. no matter how "good" any of us think we are, there'll always be someone better.............

if you're taking the most violent option, and so are they.......... are you prepared for that???

[qiphlow]

will your training help? yes. will you win? maybe. will you get hurt in the process? probably.
think of adrenaline: both participants are HIGH AS F*** on adrenaline. hopefully, because of your training (ESPECIALLY if part of your training includes performing your techniques in a relaxed manner), you will be able to keep a clear head and use that adrenaline rush to your advantage, whereas the untrained participant will most likely be a big nervous bundle of energy without any focus. it does not necessarily mean without power or the instinct for self preservation, which in itself will drive people to do what they normally would not.
on another note: if you're gonna fight, FULLY INTEND to put your opponent on the ground as fast as you can, however you can. the longer it goes, the more tired you get, the greater your chances of injury. if it's a question of opponentS, better to run(the old adrenaline will work well here...).

[Meat Shake]

" no matter how "good" any of us think we are, there'll always be someone better............."

No, you're wrong. Everybody knows that Im the undisputed champion of everything in the universe.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Meat shake:

Why do you choose this name? Is this another term for w@nker?

"No, you're wrong. Everybody knows that Im the undisputed champion of everything in the universe."

This is what anyone who is about to attack you will think.

"if you're taking the most violent option, and so are they.......... are you prepared for that???"

and this is what MA should be prepaing you for. i don't agree that proper martial arts should confuse your think process. If this is what your class is doing to you, you should quit immediately and find a good northern kung fu school.

[Toby]

Originally posted by Ego_Extrodinaire
Why do you choose this name? Is this another term for w@nker?Kelvin, ever heard of Ugly Duckling? I personally think it's a fair bit more clever than "Goktimus Prime" or "Ego_Extrodinaire (sic)", or even Kelvin Chan.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Toby,

Kelvin is not even my middle name. I think you mistake me for someone else.

[Toby]

What should I call you? I'm not sure - at the moment I'm trying to decide between:

Kelvin Chan
Goktimus Prime
Ego_Extrodinaire
Blooming Lotus
Eyebrows

Who knows?

[blooming lotus]

and your beef is that the guy is 16 and everything that goes with it??

:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

let's just pick the kid ha.

Ego: I think that means he likes you :cool:

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Toby,

Quit trying to decide, your brain is not up to it. I am MR Ego_Extrodinaire to you. settled?

blooming lotus,

There are many repressed individuals on this forum who think they know kung fu.

[Serpent]

No, you are the loser Kelvin Chan. You dress up as Star Wars characters and play with fake lightsabres.

Oh, yes you do! (http://www.geocities.com/goktimus/swcosplay.html)

Tool.

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by Serpent

Tool.

but cute , and oh so bright ( supporting the B) :) :D :p :)


give him a break ha?? or just ride him a lil and welcome him to the "big boyz yard" :eek: :cool: ;)

[Toby]

Originally posted by Ego_Extrodinaire
I am MR Ego_Extrodinaire to you.You are nothing to me. Just a troll.

Serpent, Lol @ the link! I think the 2nd to last photo caption says it all.

[blooming lotus]

if i could get that link, no doubt I'd back the ego, but can't ; so won't :rolleyes:


Ego : as for yourself, don't doubt babes: the big boys just say that shyte in lieu of " hey : how you doin??"


just jiving an checking you for constitution. At min you met their attention.... dongma dude???


Plug on and hussel with the big boys, .. they're diggin ya , ya know ;) :cool:

[Toby]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
Plug on and hussel with the big boys, .. they're diggin ya , ya know ;) :cool: You're wrong. While you're mildly amusing at times, Ego is just a dick. I can't think of anyone who "digs" him, besides (funnily enough) apparently you.

[blooming lotus]

but you compliment me and talk to him anyway.........:rolleyes:

yah... you're a big boy now and we all should acknowlege it ....right



love your style dude.....

very convincing ;) :D :rolleyes:

[Serpent]

Originally posted by Toby
You're wrong. While you're mildly amusing at times, Ego is just a dick. I can't think of anyone who "digs" him, besides (funnily enough) apparently you.
Yeah, that about sums it up.

[cerebus]

I've recently been corresponding with some of the more knowledgable and senior matial artists who used to read and occasionally post on these forums. Many of them have become as disgusted as I have at the way it's all become overrun with trolls like bl and ego. There's so little knowledge being put out by real martial artists compared to the vast amount of crap spewed by the idiots (especially bl) that these forums have become entirely useless. I think I'll follow these fine gentlemen and women and step off this rapidly sinking ship.

The inmates can have free run of the asylum. I no longer care enough to even TRY to pull bl's head outta her arse anymore. Besides, she's happier being ignorant and speading lies than accepting facts or truth. You're a sorry case bl, and I can't even respect Gene anymore for letting you spread all over these forums like a bad case of herpes. KFM is lost to the mentally ill and ignorant. Hope you enjoy it.

Troy

[Toby]

Take it easy, cerebus. I enjoyed your brief but vehement ranting spell against BL. It gave me a break from having to post myself :D.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

blooming lotus,

Yes, light sabres are so so bright and they glow in the dark too. Look like the big boys are seeing who's got the longest sabre.

Serpent,

hssss hssss hsss, ohhh the viper duth spitheth the venom. Try not to choke on your own venom next time. But hte Lord shall crush the viper with his foot.

Toby,

Come on Toby, I know I'm not as big and strong like you do because I don't do Roids - and I know that some parts of you are bigger than me. But don't get mad just because your six shooter shoots blanks when mine does the real deal or that I have batteries in my light sabre and you don't. Come on big brother, let me into your club, do it for your chic - blooming lotus, it will make her happy.

Cerebus,

Quit complaing like an old man who says that the country is not like it used to be when I was a kid.

[Toby]

*Sigh* Eyebrows does a better job at trolling than you.

Anyway, since you're so fond of analogies - are you sure your "six shooter" or "light sabre" actually works? I'm gunna guess that either (a) it doesn't due to your disability or (b) no girls would be interested. Both (a) and (b) are based on the hypothetical assumption that you are indeed wheelchair-bound and not some young anime/Star Wars/Transformers geek from Sydney.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Toby,

It's personality that counts. You work on the assumption that its looks that a girl goes for so you pump yoirself up with that sh1t. And then try to strike at someone's physically disability, such a low shot - what has a muscle boy like you to gain?

[Toby]

Laughter at your misery, wheels.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Toby,

There's nothing like getting into a wheel chair to build up your upper body strength.

[Toby]

You actually made me smile with that one, wheels :p.

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by Ego_Extrodinaire
. do it for your chic - blooming lotus, it will make her happy.
.

optimistic at best :rolleyes:

[blooming lotus]

being this thread is gongfu vs untrained I want to share a couple of recent events. I've been getting a little casual lately , not working in lieu of trying to get the fvck home, so am out more often than usual.


Yesterday I had a lunatic mid eastern dude drive me miles from my destination ( potential sex - slave trap) and being untrained himself , fortunately once he realised I was preparred to fight ( as in over a close clench hold and having me obviously about to strike his windpipe/ adams apple region ) the dude gave me permission to leave.

Today I had an actual chance to use the mak, when a cits dude came back to my hotel to assist me with my visa drama. Oversexed and under paid, began groping and had a strength battle for a moment before I managed to sweet talk my way into a carteriod blade strike ( press / swipe ) , thumb in adams apple and wrist hold to chin na ponits. It's probably easier as a chick, because talking in these situations in lieu of actual punch / box rounds are usually a better option. That's twice my dimmak has saved me in 36 hrs.


still talking against untrained opponents, so wanted to share recent events.

something to consider.

cheers
:cool:

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

blooming lotus,

The hardest hits are the ones you actually take your opponent by surprise. Yes, I've also dislike the fadayeen types who live in the dark ages where chilvery and then gender equality kind of bipassed their neighbourhood. Yes striking the those vital organs work well, but my gosh the precsion that takes. Even when I was well trained, I was at best a poor shot.

Darn if I hit the wrong dim mak point and it actually makes them stronger :)

What I'm saying I get into the ole fist cuffs with guys but always have great care and respect for the ladies.

Toby,

Now you're learning to relax, don't have to be so uptight all the time. Takes less effort to smile although your attitude of laughing at someone's misfortune still leaves much to be desired.

[SevenStar]

someone really should make a movie about BL's life...

[blooming lotus]

lol 7*.

romantic, action comedy at best........ :p :D :D ;)


Ego..... a person thinks their mak skill is yi ban ban( so so ) , then you get into real life and the shyte works!!! go freakin figure!!! ( wtf???!!:) :) :P )

Told you, travel too much to have consistent routine, but the goal is NOT to kick as much as* as poss!!! but least harm as in neccesssary!!!!!!!! I'm a buddhist for Jesus sake and the goal is to kick as LITTLE as* as poss.....


dong ma babe?? I don't wanna hurt anyone, I just wanna get to the next port.......... :) ;) :cool:

[Toby]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
I'm a buddhist for Jesus sake and the goal is to kick as LITTLE as* as poss...Roflmao! I can see 3 things wrong with that quote.

Ego, I just like to exploit my opponents' weaknesses. Just to get you started again - I learn a southern style ;).

[blooming lotus]

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[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Toby,

Just remeber to stay relaxed big boy, it may not be batteries but the way you're handling the sabre. More Padawan take on to the sabre quite automatically, others need an instruction manual. Remember, stay relaxed and off the roids if possible big boy.

blooming lotus,

I'm not trained from the monestary but in some GI boot camp. To me opening a door means kicking it down. We go Sir yes Sir and go about our marching orders. Sometimes old habits die hard. But nevertheless, the hit hard, hit fast methods work well.

I'm not saying that what you do doesn't work, quite the opposite, i would fear facing you down one on one with your dim mak abilities.

Wonder what Jesus and Buddah would do if they play chess. Sorry, but I can't bring myself to taking your queen as it would harm you game, and likewise :)

SevenStar,

You have much to learn from BL, I know you're one hell of a kick boxer but don't underestimate a chic who knows dim mak.

[blooming lotus]

and oh how your return trolling progresses.


7 * is familiar with the mak, I think he just preferrs what he's doing. If you look at his profile and his style combo , it's nicely put together.

cheers

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

blooming lotus

I never troll.

I think you should let 7* speak for himself. Regardless of your striking ability, you even said it yourself that it is important to Mak an alternative option.

I think you should learn some striking techniques, maybe there's much you can also learn from 7*

[blooming lotus]

dong. I couldn't agree more. The guy has knowledge I don't and to be frank, I have been taking both budo and other notes from every conversation 7 and I have had. Give him credit, he knows what he does and it's jazz we don't. LIke optional - respect undeniable.yah. credit where due, too real to quit :rolleyes: ;)

As for my strikes, I have done a lil tkd, aikido, shaolin, wingchun etc etc. i'm not totally reliant on the mak (dimmak ) , but it helps (or at least has recently to the exclusion of all other styles !!! :confused: )

Guess chicks just have other options you boys don't ha ( unless the opponent is gay and fancies you :P :) )

cheers Ego ;) :)

Oh and on your "trolling" I just meant that you're giving as good as you're getting and doing it better every day.

cheers babe. :cool:

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Blooming Lotus,

It's actually good try try out a number of different stlyes so that you have a broad knowledge, less chance of being taken by surprise or learning bad habits from a particular sifu.

I guess with your KF skills, knowledge of other cultures and languages, when your not sharing your wisdom on this forum, you're hunting for treasures in lost cities and ancient tombs :)

Yes, chics do have more options. Lets say we go head to head one on one. You strike at me, I will not block or hit back - because it is not gentlemenly to do so. In some ways I'm still an old fashion kind of guy who will always open the door for the ladies.

Oh my trolling, I'm amberessed to call what I do trolling when you're around and I'm still learning from the best :)

[Serpent]

You're finally starting to get on a roll with this one, Kelvin. You're losing your touch, mate.

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by Ego_Extrodinaire
Blooming Lotus,

It's actually good try try out a number of different stlyes so that you have a broad knowledge, less chance of being taken by surprise or learning bad habits from a particular sifu.

I guess with your KF skills, knowledge of other cultures and languages, when your not sharing your wisdom on this forum, you're hunting for treasures in lost cities and ancient tombs :)

Yes, chics do have more options. Lets say we go head to head one on one. You strike at me, I will not block or hit back - because it is not gentlemenly to do so. In some ways I'm still an old fashion kind of guy who will always open the door for the ladies.

Oh my trolling, I'm amberessed to call what I do trolling when you're around and I'm still learning from the best :)

To begin , ditto on the Serpal comment, and secondly, If you weren't attacking me in earnest, I have no reason to use any of my forms, strikes nor styles. Dead set, fights are drama and if sweet talk can avoid that ( confident of walking away as I am), I'm a-schmoozing. Big deal.......Ya know??!! ;) :)

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Serpent,

Not being Kelivin, I rally won't know what you're talking about.

blooming lotus,

I'm confident in your ability to sweet talk, but sometimes it is sweet talk that could lead you into trouble. it's a fine line to know when a fight is for real. I had found it best to meet it with full intent and then decide upon contact to see if it is real. You can say sorry many times but only die once.

But maybe Dim Mak adds a whole new dimension to this ball game. Do you think?

[blooming lotus]

yah.....without a doubt.......... and with out my dimmak, I'd be kinda yibanban vs skilled oppnent, though would've put my study time there into another art so who knows...........



I love my mak and it is my most prized skill..........

sweet talk is just another means to perpetuate non-violence..........though so many boyz ( especially maers ) have trouble stepping down, I aint to proud to spare you at cost of a wink and and a "hey babe "........


many folks here've said before they might try talking first, it's just easier for a chick to get further through that means, is my point and the reason for the fight is more often sexual natured than as with boys and directly my strength vs yours...........


so I find anyhow............

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

blooming lotus,

Yes for boys it's very much a pride thing, losing face in front of their friends is a no no. Having said that and understanding where they come from doesn't make the situation less dangerous. You're right, if they can be put down without losing face, all the better.

But when you talk, also remember to keep moving so that they can corner you or feel they are in a position where thet have a tactical advantage.

I wish I'd learn some Dim Mak. You must have been a very trustworthy and loyal student for a good sifu to pass on the highest art to you.

[blooming lotus]

just your av "wanna know " student to be honest........but integrity and commitment produces fruit with the most bodatious rewards...........


getting jivey as the jius roll forth, but I know you dig the btw.............


there's NO great secret about it.... you make your decision, you commit to implementing it, and your teachers now and future respect it, and so feel happy to pass it down ............




the secret : ( whispers ) there is


no secret beyond desire and reason..........

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Alot of Dim Mak has become lost knowledge. I'm sure some teachers would wish they could pass on that art - if only they knew.

Most kf places have become very commercialized and dim mak is too un-westernized to be accepted. where did you train your dim mak skills?

[blooming lotus]

There are dimmak masters around and my initial contact was Gmaster Poe in Melbourne.

The charts I have right now are from Earle Montaigues creations, and at times when I have no teacher or dim mak brother/sister to spar and train with, at min they are great charts and keep me fresh.

I'm lucky actually, it was my lil bro that got me started, but if you want to find the skill, you will.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

blooming lotus,

That is awesome, do you have contact details for G mater Poe. feel free to PM me if you are at liberty to disclose. To think that acupunture that is taught in universities don't go into Dim Mak sure seems like 1/2 the ciriculum is missing.

And then there is the need to develop the ability to strik accuratly at a moving target, mostly in not the ideal lighting conditions. It would seem you'd train years at it. Well done!

[Buddy]

Y'know, in that this room is called street fighting the fact that you two are talking meridian striking... "I love my mak"...you might more want to say ..my dim... but that would go too far in describing actually what you think you do. BL, a girl is going to be bum rushed and taken and no sort of b******t keyboard ninja moon training is going to help. What is with you people that you need to make sh*t up? Ego, you're a putzy little internet troll. Stop this s**t now and just go out and really train. Everything you say is wrong. And now it's a PM mutual stroke-fest. Tell you what, go to emptyflower or bullshido and spout this equine scat.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Buddy,

(Ne Hen Bern)

Could you describe what sort of self defence that you do? it seems like you've done some boxercise or cradio like styles in the local gym. You might have been turned off by the spiriutual side of kung fu because all you've seen is the new age mumbo jumbo. (Ze Dao Ma?)

I admit I haven't mastered the level of kung fu like pin point maridian strikes that BL has, but she being buddist and shaolin trained and all that 'birth place of kung fu (get it)' i'm confident she can do what you think is impossible. (Dong Bu Dong?)

[blooming lotus]

yah. I have a link and some contact details I've posted before on maybe the dimmak thread. There are seminars held in Melbourne ( if you can't find it anywhere else) and he also has some book and video programmes available but they're a lil exxy. I don't have the info here but I'll get it to you when I can.

Ps: If Buddy, like so many others want to underestimate their opponents, it just gives us the jump. I'm a little chick but so have been most masters been tiny from yip man and so on, from time of Kungfu birth. Either way. Ignore the troll unless he says something valuable.

cheers :cool:

[Buddy]

"Could you describe what sort of self defence that you do? it seems like you've done some boxercise or cradio like styles in the local gym."

It seems like..? I've offered nothing of my back ground only to say what you are talking about is nonsense. For the record, I teach Gao style baguazhang under Luo Dexiu, perhapd you've seen his vids.

"You might have been turned off by the spiriutual side of kung fu because all you've seen is the new age mumbo jumbo. (Ze Dao Ma?)"

Ahh, clearly you haven't seen them. Our baguazhang is for useage.

"I admit I haven't mastered the level of kung fu like pin point maridian strikes that BL has"

Come on, you don't know anything about her. You only know what you read here.

, "but she being buddist and shaolin trained and all that 'birth place of kung fu (get it)'"

No, I don't get it. What does philosophy or some tourist attraction have to do with it? I've trained for 25 years and I can tell you things like point striking or chinna are a gift. The idea of a small girl using them on a trained attacker is absurd.

"i'm confident she can do what you think is impossible. (Dong Bu Dong?)"

And I'm confident that you have no experience with martial arts whatsoever.

[Buddy]

"I'm a little chick but so have been most masters been tiny from yip man and so on, from time of Kungfu birth."

Really? Yang Luchan? Dong Haichuan?, Zhang Zhunfeng?, Wu Mengxia? All big Northereners.

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by Buddy
and back atchya... ya know. If what you say about your experience is true yourself, how about posting something constructive??[/COLOR] :rolleyes:




, "but she being buddist and shaolin trained and all that 'birth place of kung fu (get it)'"

No, I don't get it. What does philosophy or some tourist attraction have to do with it? I've trained for 25 years and I can tell you things like point striking or chinna are a gift. The idea of a small girl using them on a trained attacker is absurd.

"i'm confident she can do what you think is impossible. (Dong Bu Dong?)"

And I'm confident that you have no experience with martial arts whatsoever.


You're right, I am a small woman but A. How many trained attackers do you usually meet out of school and B. I'm still alive despite serious and armed situations in past. So for now, i'm just going to have to go with it.

If fellow chick trained attacker counts, I 've been having another look at Janna Costello ( San Shou ) title holder, and her belt is looking prettier every day.

I'm 29 myself and have been training and conditioning since I was a very young kid.

Your opinion still doesn't mean a whole lot, but if you've got something useful to share, share it already !:rolleyes:

[Buddy]

Bloo-Lo,
"If fellow chick trained attacker counts, I 've been having another look at Janna Costello ( San Shou ) title holder, and her belt is looking prettier every day. "

No, it doesn't count. You think you'll be able to pull off point striking in a match/contest? I don't, and that's all about win/lose, not live/die. This section is about street combat.

"I'm 29 myself and have been training and conditioning since I was a very young kid."

I'm 47, started karoddy at 16. I've been practicing Chinese martial arts since 18, bagua since 1989.

"Your opinion still doesn't mean a whole lot, but if you've got something useful to share, share it already"

Because my opinion still doesn't mean a whole lot. But if you insist you can scroll down a couple of months in the Internal section where I posted some fairly coherent threads about neigong. But I'm certain you're expert in that as well.

[BAI HE]

EGO aka Kelvin - How's the transformer collection?

Gee, Blooming Onion, you sound pretty deadly and tough, do you roll your own tampons?

As far as Buddy goes? He speaks from decades of experience. You might giva a listen. There aren't many quality external and internal instructors or methods he hasn't seen or studied directly.
His martial CV reads like a "Who's who" of CMA.

[cerebus]

Hey Bai He. The sad thing is that master Luo De Xiu himself could post here and she'd still talk to him like this (he l l, she probably doesn't even know who master Luo is :rolleyes: ).

If someone isn't either agreeing with her or pumping her ego up, then as far as she's concerned their opinion isn't worth a thing. She doesn't want knowledge, she wants a pat on the back.

Buddy has trained in the martial arts for longer than she's been alive but she'll still act like she's all superior (because she spent a few months trying to memorize some pressure point charts she got off the internet :rolleyes: ). How can you expect to reason with someone who closes their eyes and plugs their ears? You can't.

[BAI HE]

"How can you expect to reason with someone who closes their eyes and plugs their ears? You can't."

There is too many of them out there.... we're surrounded!

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by Buddy
Bloo-Lo,
"If fellow chick trained attacker counts, I 've been having another look at Janna Costello ( San Shou ) title holder, and her belt is looking prettier every day. "

No, it doesn't count. You think you'll be able to pull off point striking in a match/contest? I don't, and that's all about win/lose, not live/die. This section is about street combat.

"I'm 29 myself and have been training and conditioning since I was a very young kid."

I'm 47, started karoddy at 16. I've been practicing Chinese martial arts since 18, bagua since 1989.

"Your opinion still doesn't mean a whole lot, but if you've got something useful to share, share it already"

Because my opinion still doesn't mean a whole lot. But if you insist you can scroll down a couple of months in the Internal section where I posted some fairly coherent threads about neigong. But I'm certain you're expert in that as well.

I don't claim any expertise in areas I have no information on! Okay , so fellow chick however trained opponent doesn't matter, but think about it Bud, most of the fights you have out of school are with haters wanting to match testostorone or friends when relations sour.


I claim to be no ma master, but I'm little and to date my skill ( for whatever it's been worth and no matter how it's been broken down applicatively, has kept me alive through some dead set hairy times!!!! I don't care nor know know how your skill relates to mine, I just know that my own has been sufficient to "work" through what it's needed to. i do not compete ( for laxk of desire in lieu of more fruitful persuits, so as long as it ( my art - combo arsenal ) keeps me alive, i'm happy to promote and pay it dues.

I have no desire to be good as you!! I just wanna stay alive til I get the job done! ;) :) :)

[BAI HE]

I have no desire to be good as you!! I just wanna stay alive til I get the job done"

The idea is to crack the other guy before he cracks you. This is a common thread between all martial arts.
Think about crushing someone's knee moments before trying to "Dim Mak" the heart meridian.

If you open the gate and can land that ****? Good.
Don'y base your strategy on hitting that home run.

I think that is what Buddy was trying to say.
In a fight, go with your simple strengths. In practice? Work on the complexities of sucking until it doesn't suck.

Now we all have something to work on!

[cerebus]

*Bows to Bai He* Nice post.

[blooming lotus]

my strength is knowing weaknesses in your body you've yet to acknowledge and so that's my focus. I work my strikes/ kicks and forms but that's where I'm walking out triumphant. i don't care a great deal if you turn your back on my experience, however humble, but a little chick in a big world, it's gotta be ( and has been ) worth my life ( ?) x over min............


peace and integrity to you all


Ps: not trying to be the best, just surviving to nxt lvl............


peace oh great yoda of all things ma


:rolleyes:

[cerebus]

"peace oh great yoda of all things ma.

:rolleyes: "

Of course she had to add her special little insulting jibe at the end. :p

[blooming lotus]

as opposed to your each and every post bar the occassional one?


Look, i don't care about your skill, his or mine, though i do honestly believe Id kill you if i needed to (and will be proven wrong only when some sucker finally kills me in my travels ), I'm only intersted in what constructive input you're sharing. At least i'm comfortable enough to be a sweety( translation ,: kind hearted sad sack) regardless of hormone rage. i don't care. you're a nasty guy and I have never heard you offer anything to help anyone...........

[cerebus]

She cannot hear who does not listen.

[blooming lotus]

so what are saying ?? you're not listening (and so runs off with fingers in ears reciting blah blah blah.I'm greater!! blah blah blah) ???


I dig you may have something to share , but I , let alone anyone else won't give you more than 30 seconds to explain yourself when you step like this. Have you ever heard the story about honey, vinegar and flys???

[cerebus]

I didn't mean listen to yourself talk. ;)

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Buddy,

Who cares, under which master you studied under and how many years you've been to classes. It's the amount of work that you put in. I mean up to now, you still don't know about meridian strikes - perhaps your instructor is holding back something for good reason.

BAI HE,

I've had enough of the who's who name dropping thing and more often than not, the wrong name is being dropped. Don't ask me about toy collections that belong to someone else whome I don't know.

For all the years Buddy has studied MA, he should know that the size of the practitioner dictates how the art is being used. the whole question of timing, evasion, meeting force on force is crucial.

"The idea is to crack the other guy before he cracks you."

No the idea is to stay alive. It is alot easier to not get hit than to go in and hit. Being a hero can either 1) get you a purple heart or 2) end up dead. Is your life worth the value of a medal?

cerebus,

You've contributed alot with your one-line-comebacks.

BL,

Don't forget that you'd mention that your first approach (and a wise one) is to defuse the situation before it escalates though dialogue. This I feel is what alot of over confident testosterone strapped guys forget.

It is over confidence and under estiamting one's opponents that can land a person in trouble not the otherway around.

[blooming lotus]

What you know means jack here unless you're prepared to share it

cheers

[Buddy]

"Buddy,

Who cares, under which master you studied under and how many years you've been to classes. It's the amount of work that you put in. I mean up to now, you still don't know about meridian strikes - perhaps your instructor is holding back something for good reason.">>>

Once again you think that setting up this straw man will work. Once again you know nothing of my background. I know a fair deal about point striking, enough to tell you it's a gift if you manage it. Enough to tell you that most of the time you won't. But you are a poseur and would rather believe this foolish dim mak fantasy. Fadeyeen indeed.


"It is alot easier to not get hit than to go in and hit."

Now you show your true colors. If you believe this you are indeed a boob. It is very difficult to NOT get hit. Even the best get hit. It's how you deal with it that counts. And the idea that you can rely on dian xue when its hammer time is folly. Hone your basics-jibengong- until you can execute them with machine-like precision. Learn a superior body method-shenfa-that allows you to maximize the use of whole body power. Learn how to enter, control and destroy. My preference is baguazhang. YMMV.


BL"What you know means jack here unless you're prepared to share it "

You mean you didn't look up my posts on neigong? And that was just the very basics.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

Buddy,

"Once again you think that setting up this straw man will work. Once again you know nothing of my background. I know a fair deal about point striking, enough to tell you it's a gift if you manage it"

Of course with the right training, you'll be given this opportunity than others. There will be ways of setting up the hits, though grappling or gold ole chin na. Their joints will be locked up in so much pain that tehy'll wish a pressure point would finish them off. You should know that.

"It is very difficult to NOT get hit. Even the best get hit. It's how you deal with it that counts."

Now you're trying to be difficult. I can say you stop a 500lb gorilla with a precise finger strike so you won't get hit, but you get all worked up again. So I'll spare you the grief and tell you that I meant, getting hit in a way that takes you out. Please tell me that even the best gets taken out occasionally and it could be their last. I look forward to your colorful response.

[BAI HE]

Stop a Gorilla with a Dim Mak strike?
What movie are you living in Kelvin?

[Buddy]

"Of course with the right training, you'll be given this opportunity than others."

What? Is there a sentence here?


"There will be ways of setting up the hits, though grappling or gold ole chin na. Their joints will be locked up in so much pain that tehy'll wish a pressure point would finish them off. You should know that."

Well I can't say the same because clearly you DON"T know. You obviously live in a fantasy kung fu novel/ Jet Li movie/Frank Herbert world. Just what kind of actual training have you done, Kelvin, Chung Moo Do?. And don't give that Nam/SpecOps/ lie. You admit you don't know much about dian xue yet have the temerity to lecture me about it. Just keep watching Fist of the North Star.

[Buddy]

"Please tell me that even the best gets taken out occasionally and it could be their last."
Roy Jones Jr, Muhammed Ali, The Sugar Rays, Wang Xiangchai, Gou Yunshen, Wan Laishen...be serious.

[blooming lotus]

NONE OF US HERE ARE BULLETPROOF, BUT IF WE CAN SHARE OUR SKILLS AND INFORMATION, WE ALL END UP ALL THE BETTER FOR IT.

DIMMAK IS JUST ANOTHER ASPECT WE CAN LEARN AND BE MORE EFFECTIVE THROUGH.

CHEERS BOYS

B :cool:

[cerebus]

Who wants to volunteer to tell her she has her "caps lock" on? :p

[blooming lotus]

YAH. I KNOW , BUT IT'S THAT OR CHINESE??!!!

[cerebus]

I vote for Chinese. Thanks for offering us a choice.

[blooming lotus]

LOL WITH DISBELIEF AND CONFUSSION :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :cool:

WHAT EVER DUDE :)

AND BACK TO MA...........

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

BAI HE,

Aw come on. If I were Kelvin, the only right answer to your question would be Transformers wouldn't it?

Buddy,

It also comes down to the relative skill levels. Size of person also counts in terms of the tactics you use. Stuff you should already know.

I'm not actually keen on Jet Li movies, much prefer the KF action in Matrix. Bet you can't beat Agent Smith - now that's one nasty dude in a suit.

He who lives by the sword die by the sword. Of course there are exceptions.

BL is right, no matter how good you are there's a chance that you'll be taken out by a lucky shot. You can only reduce the chances not eliminate the possibility all together.

Isn't this the philosophy you go by in your BaGua training?

[BAI HE]

EE - You were outed as bieng Kelvin a long time ago.... Maximus materialize!

Furthermore when you speak of relative "skill levels", I wonder of what you speak? While bieng a fan of said skills, you offer no proof or reference to which you speak.

If you have seen these skills, where did you see them?
If you can exhibit these skills, when can we meet?

The Gorilla thing is a hoot BTW. An adult chimpanzee can rip the arm off an adult human, I shudder to think what an adult Gorilla could do...

Perhaps the sight of you in your resplendent red silk pajamas would give said Gorilla pause. Perhaps the Gorilla would realize that you are not crippled and that the "wheelchair" story keeps your ass from having to cash the checks you've written with your mouth.

You are weak Kelvin. Your gong-fu stinks like old halibut... It's even worse than your trolling. Dim Mak? How would a coward know wether it works or not. You are a coward, always have been.. always will be. Does this make you happy?

[blooming lotus]

THERE IS A HUGE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A COWARD AND SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T FIGHT AND SOMEONE WHO DOESN'T WANT TO.


PEACE FOLKS

HARDAS*EDRY IS JUST NOT PART OF REAL LIFE.WAKE UP ALREADY AND GET SECURE :rolleyes: :cool:

[Serpent]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
YAH. I KNOW , BUT IT'S THAT OR CHINESE??!!!
Why?

And I vote for Chinese too, given the choice.

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

BAI HE,

There was an account where an adult Gorilla ran amok when it escaped from its enclosure. 2 zoo keepers grabbed hold of each of its hands and led it back to the cage.

Well I wan't there to know whether the gorilla put up a fight, or itf it knew the keepers so it calmed down or whether dim mak was used or not.

But I sure know this that your theory of Kelvin Ego paradox cannot be resolved without certain inconsistancies that have to be overlooked. Your theory sure is maximus dematerilizing very fast.

blooming lotus,

Your right. and actually raise an important point. On the street, if people mouth off saying coward this coward that, best to ignore and walk away. People will only goat you into a fight when they think there are standing on ground that are advantages to them not when they feel are in a position of waekness.

We know from Iraq that the streets / cities are a complex battle ground. Always be wary about the possible assailants you cant see.

If BaiHe were to have been some punk in the streets, I would have done just that (almost - as ego would roll his chair away).

To All,

Take antagonistic BaiHe as a trolling example. They serve their use in reminding on the kung fu lessons we learn and recount the famous song by Kenny Rogers - Coward of the County. You don't have to fight to be a man.

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by Serpent
Why?

And I vote for Chinese too, given the choice.

back and in best form I see :rolleyes:

[Ego_Extrodinaire]

BL,

Chinese is actually very hard to learn, I've managed to pick up a few phrases from you. Hey I think your PM box is full.

[blooming lotus]

well if it was before, it is now clear

B