Opinion time!! Augustine Fong

[IronFist]

What does everyone here think about him? I recently viewed one of his Wing Chun tapes, and it all looked pretty good, except:

1) The "Iron Palm" section was too brief and he left out one critical point that could lead viewers to injury (that point is that you should drop your hand, not hit the bag with force, and it's hard to tell when watching if you don't know any better).

2) Conditioning your forearms on a dummy. Well, I've heard mixed views about this, so n/m.

3) His one inch punch looked more like a one inch push. And, when they did it in slow motion, you could see him move his hand back 3 inches or so before striking. Isn't a one inch punch to be done from finger length, and then your hand only goes FOREWARD, not move it 3 inches back first.

But if anyone has any experience with either him or his students, please post it. Thanks guys.

Iron

[CrazyDan]

edward is a student of his that post's here, his website is at http://www.windycitywingchun.com/
hopefully edward will see this thread :)

[edward]

Well, I'm not going to talk to much about what I think about him, because I wouldnt' be studying under
him if I didn't have a high opinion of his ability, skill, and overall as a person.

1) Well, I have the same tape of the iron palm, and I recall hearing that they mention that
along with wallbag training, all involved just tapping. Sifu constantly stresses just tapping
and not using full force behind the training of these items. Consistency is the key to conditioning
your hands, as he always has stated

2) When ever you tap, the dummy.. yes you are doing some conditioning.. the tapping itself involves
the concept of chi paking.. but for the most part, the dummy is not used to whack at it, as hard as
possible, but teaches you the way to properly release the energy, understand the lines, etc, etc.

3) Different ways to do one it punch, but for the most part, one inch punch demonstration is done
in a push manner. In reality, if you were to get hit by the one inch punch... you would just drop.

Overall the tapes, are general reference material. They definitely make even more sense if you've
studied with him.

Hope this answers your questions

[tnwingtsun]

He looks good to me!

[IronFist]

Thanks dude :)

Iron

[WongFeHung]

I used to train with a guy from his school.. He had alot of variations on lop-sao, hitting all angles, and varaitions on dahn chi-sao as well. I find that too many people go right through lop sao and dahn chi-sao as nothing but a stepping stone for chi-sao, rather than for developing certain attributes.

[MasterPhil]

I had the opportunity to talk and touch hands with one of his instructors here in ottawa.
It is good solid wing chun. Solid, meaning all their techniques are based on universally recognized (YM lineage) principles. So you won't find any flying tornado kicks in their classes but if you want pure wc, that's what you'll get. There is an emphasis on training a multitude of different sets or exercises to develop independance of the hands and intuitive reaction. I would also agree with TenTiger's comments on lop sau and dan chi sao.

But like any other good school, no matter how good and knowledgeable the instructor, your wing chun will only be as good as the hours of practice you put into it.

ST

Surrounded by chaos, the true taoist laughs...

[Rolling Elbow]

Could it be we have another Ottawa force posting here on the board? Now we've got a WC man in our own back yard! Are you with Sunny Tang by any chance?

O and yeah, Fong looks pretty **** good to me too. Uses the hips well and has good power from what I can see..then again picking between the techniques is for you WC people..the rest of us can only see the principle behind it.

Michael Panzerotti
Taijutsu Nobody from the Great White North..

[MasterPhil]

You are correct. I'm guilty as charged on both counts. I have broken my relationship from the st family about 5 years ago though. I simply couldn't handle all the bs and hypocrisy linked to the politics of running a commercial school. Not that they are worse than any other large commercial family. But that is not what I started learning kf for. So when the politics started to severely disturb my training, I moved along. Some people can handle it, some even thrive on it, but not me.

IronFist, in order to keep this post relevant, I would also like to point out that if the only negative points you found from his videos (I haven't seen them myself) were the 3 you mentioned, I would take it as an indication that it is good quality wc. Iron Palm, Forearm conditioning, and 1 inch punches are all very specialized skills that are not "core" wingchun but more like add-ons as they are common to pretty much all kf styles. I doubt there is a heavy emphasis on any of those skills in Fong's classes. They are nice to put on a tape to impress beginners though! When judging the quality of a teacher, one should look closely at his core skills and look past the fringe stuff. Not that I disagree with your comments, just that if somebody is looking for good wing chun instruction, he shouldn't dismiss a teacher because his 1" punch is weak or he can't break a stack of bricks with his hand.

ST

Surrounded by chaos, the true taoist laughs...

[Losttrak]

It was very enjoyable watching some of his chi sau videos. Different stylists do chi sau different and I found his to be a very "internal," soft version. Looks like some tai chi masters do when they perform push hands. Very impressive.

"If you and I agree all the time, then one of us is unnecessary."

[Rolling Elbow]

I too have heard from some that Sunny TAng has become too commercial and that the combat skills demonstrated even by some of the instructors did not meet the standards of many martial artists. Enough said.. my instructor has trained in WC before and he too was not impressed with Sunny Tang Studios in the past few years.

Are you then training off Bank street? I think there is someone with Fong's lineage who trains out of a community center. I always keep my eyes open for non commercial schools like my own. WhiteCrane downtown seemed interesting but from what i understand, the learning curb is slow as hell....forms are great, but when they don't evolve into fighting skills within 6 months- its time to look to another place.

Michael Panzerotti
Taijutsu Nobody from the Great White North.

[MasterPhil]

Sorry if I didn't answer sooner but I just recently noticed your last post...

"Are you then training off Bank street? I think there is someone with Fong's lineage who trains out of a community center."

You're probably referring to Patrick Gordon. I met him many years ago and even though we were from different wc teachers, he always was very friendly and polite. Good guy.

I haven't been training with any "school" per se for many years now. I usually train in my garage or outside in a park.

I read from a recent post that Patrick was hosting a seminar with Augustine Fong in September. I thought it might be worth paying a visit though I am afraid the cost will be pretty high. I haven't seen or talked to Patrick since he opened his school and I always kick myself for not going visit him. But then again, I don't go see my grandparents nearly as often as I should so...

Email me if you want to talk. I am afraid we have drifted a bit off topic...

Surrounded by chaos, the true taoist laughs...

[weakstudent]

my sifu studied under sigung fong and he is very good i also had a video from him thats very good
great information.i e-mail sigung fong and he always responds that to me means alot. yeah i never meet him but to me he has alot to offer any wing chun student whatever his linage.

nelson