History repeating?????

[AmanuJRY]

I heard once that if the Chineese doctors of old had shared information and technique instead of keeping it a "family secret" that their ability and knowledge of the human body would far exceede western knowledge (this includes standard medical practice as well as TCM, for those who believe they may already be better).

Nowadays, I see this in MA throughout the world. People holding back stuff from students until they "qualify" (or at least reach the level of "top secret" clearance), like they are protecting their family secret. Or people who are afraid to discuss technical issues with people outside their "liniage" because they don't want to let the secret out or don't want to have their view challenged.

I read Hendrick's post on localised evolution and I realised, If we were able to accept change, differing opinions, and integration, and could share ideas without decending into arguments over the way things "should" be, we could see all the info and be able to rationalize, and absorb the "truths" that we seek. There is truth in all liniage and there is deception as well.

"Truths are illusions about which one has forgotten that this is what they are; metaphors which are worn out and without sensuous power; coins which have lost their pictures and now matter only as metal, no longer as coins.- Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)"

There are those however who don't want this to happen, cause they believe they might lose their "edge", that is why the Chineese kept things secret, to protect the knowledge (for some obvious reasons and some not), are we repeating this behavior?

[Yaksha]

sometimes a person just doesnt want their student injuring themselves with something they obviously aren't ready for, so they don't tell the student about it until they are prepared otherwise they will foolishly play and injure themselves or somebody who shouldn't have been injured.

[Go Jun Long]

You also must realize that when a student comes into the door, how does one know their intentions right off of the bat, or if they are worthy of what you could teach them. Some will come only to quit within a few months or a year. Is this the type of person you want to have knowledge of your system? The hidden truth is not, in my opinion, hidden at all, it is only waiting for one to prove themselves worthy of receiving it.

My .02:)

[kj]

Originally posted by AmanuJRY
... are we repeating this behavior?

I'm no sociologist or anthropologist, though it seems to me that with territorial and tribal instincts as elements of human nature, such behaviors are bound to repeat, though not for all or in same degrees.

Regards,
- kj

[AmanuJRY]

sometimes a person just doesnt want their student injuring themselves with something they obviously aren't ready for, so they don't tell the student about it until they are prepared otherwise they will foolishly play and injure themselves or somebody who shouldn't have been injured.- Yaksha

Ok, I understand the idea of progressive exposure to students, I'm thinking along the lines of experienced practioneers, from differing backgrounds.


You also must realize that when a student comes into the door, how does one know their intentions right off of the bat, or if they are worthy of what you could teach them. Some will come only to quit within a few months or a year. Is this the type of person you want to have knowledge of your system? The hidden truth is not, in my opinion, hidden at all, it is only waiting for one to prove themselves worthy of receiving it.- Go Jun Long

This is quite possibly the most acceptable reason. But, say it were you and I, you don't know what kind of person I may be, then again, you don't know what I may already be capable of or what I already know.


...with territorial and tribal instincts as elements of human nature, such behaviors are bound to repeat, though not for all or in same degrees.- kj

True.
Most studies on strategy would teach not to reveal any tactical ability to your enemy, at least not until you use it.

I suppose I was just ranting a bit. I suppose I had the idea that it could be possible to unite people of similar thought but differing liniage to mix, sort and discover the core truths of technique or theory.

[AmanuJRY]

I suppose it would require some sort of common threat or purpose in order to bring WC/WT/VT people together. I'm sure during the Ming/Qing conflict of legend, those who were on the right side shared info with each other (note; Wong Wah Bo and Leung Yee Tai or these and any other rebels in the R.B.O.C.).

Maybe our common threat should be the poor image of WC as a result of fragmented liniage and the disputes that come with it.

Just pipe dreams, I guess.:(

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by AmanuJRY
I realised, If we were able to accept change, differing opinions, and integration, and could share ideas without decending into arguments over the way things "should" be, we could see all the info and be able to rationalize, and absorb the "truths" that we seek. There is truth in all liniage and there is deception as well.

"



1, Damo (boddhidharma) was running around China trying to tell people, that awareness is one, not the thought which one identify as self, or that ideas one derived. one is that awareness capable to think, not the thinker. But for thousand of years who listen to him? Some even using the idea of tribal and secretive trying to overwrite Damo's teaching in the name of Damo teaching, and it still happen today. just look around.


2, modern day research shows us our conciousness evolve and develop. and we dont have to live like 400 years ago.


www.chooseyourlife.com/ml/docs/SpiralDynamics.htm

do we want to change? or we want to stuck at the 1700 where the chinese grouping into tribe and the Qing is acting like power gods? that is our choice.

One can imagine how WCK evolved with different wave of conciousness such as model in the spiral dynamics. If the leader or the sifu's doesnt aware of the conciousness evolution and we have a choice. Then, we all repeat the good old ways.

identify what type of wave of consciousness one's leader/teacher/oneself is from the spectum of the spiral dynamics and from there we can find out what is the theme of our WCK.

WCK GM from all lineages will reach tier two which starts with Yellow as in the spiral dynamics, somedays.

Not a simple issue. But it needs to brought out now because we live in an era of we have a choice to make our life and our art better.

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by AmanuJRY
I suppose it would require some sort of common threat or purpose in order to bring WC/WT/VT people together.

If it goes that way, all WCK system will spiral down to survival level of tier one councious of the spiral dynamic model which is pulling a reverse gear. To survie, we might work together or we might kill each other to survive.

There are other ways. WE all spiral upward. or upgrade.

That is to educate everyone starts from now ----------- We can be better then ourself tomorrow.

We are the awareness not that thinker and not to control by our old thoughts. We can have different thoughts. We can change the old thoughts and produce better and better idea and system. We dont need to hold on to the OLD to feel secure.

That OLD tradition if use properly can be a great support to root us. USE wrongly, it will become our burden and trap that drain us to death.

confucious system is a great system for China when other parts of the world is tribal and surviva. however, confucious as it is without any improvement or evolve obviously run into problem when the west was starting to evolve, renesance, industrial revolution....etc.


With the Theory of localization Evolution and spiral dynamics models, we can predicting within next 10 years WCK wil evolve and break up into lots of small different groups where each of them needs to pragmaticly evolve to grow in response to the fast grow and evolve rate of globally technological or environment or health awareness or holistic living grow.

There are people who has over 10 thousand or over 100 thousand students today in WCK world wide. and these people has reach a great personal successfull level. They have proof themself. Thus, They can effort to spend time and money to lead to evolve WCK in a positive direction beyond personal agenda since they have already achive thier personal achivement. And, some might already started it, just we dont know.

And the return for their selfless contribution to WCK will be a fame which always remembered in the history of WCk as a great leader of this era.

[taltos]

Originally posted by kj
I'm no sociologist or anthropologist, though it seems to me that with territorial and tribal instincts as elements of human nature, such behaviors are bound to repeat, though not for all or in same degrees.

Regards,
- kj

I AM an anthropologist, and without splitting semantic hairs, kj is 100% correct.

-Levi

[kj]

Originally posted by taltos
I AM an anthropologist ...

That is cool ... yet one more vocation to add to our collective skill set. :)

Regards,
- kj

[anerlich]

My take on secrets is here:

http://www.wingchunkuen.com/why/columns/nerlich/mirror05_secrets.html

The argument of not giving people of poor character knowledge that is too deadly, or which they might injure themselves with, is IMO fairly tenous in an age where just about any idiot can own a firearm, buy some oil and fertiliser, get a recipe off the web and kill several hundred people, and where we put teenagers behind the wheel of potentially dangerous missiles which kill thousands every year.

The parallel I am usually drawn back to is cryptography. The strongest ciphers are not those which are kept secret (security through obscurity), but those for which the methods are published, and everyone and anyone, including the best cryptographic minds in the world, is invited to hammer away at it, looking for weaknesses. Any cipher that can handle that sort of pressure for several years can be used with a good deal of confidence. Similarly with combat teactics, strategy and skill. Empirical testing is arguably more important than hifalutin theory.

I agree with kj and taltos' observations on human nature. We are all still cro-magnons, just our caves, our spears, and our bearskins have gone a little more hi-tech. Not our brains.

[AmanuJRY]

Originally posted by anerlich
The argument of not giving people of poor character knowledge that is too deadly, or which they might injure themselves with, is IMO fairly tenous in an age where just about any idiot can own a firearm, buy some oil and fertiliser, get a recipe off the web and kill several hundred people, and where we put teenagers behind the wheel of potentially dangerous missiles which kill thousands every year.

That is a very valid point, Andrew.

Also your article was informative, thanks for the link.


My thought was sharing on a higher level than a teacher/student basis, like a practician/practician level, but taking into account what kj posted and taltos backed up, this would be improbable without establishing some sort of trust based relationship.

[Ernie]

I suppose I had the idea that it could be possible to unite people of similar thought but differing liniage to mix, sort and discover the core truths of technique or theory


---- funny i do this all the time , part of a persons journey is to research and develop , by meeting and sharing will all types of matial artist [ not just wing chun ] so much can be gained
by limiting ones self to there tiny bubble [ lineage ] sure they can become the kings of there kingdom but the kingdom is just a spec of dirt on the earth

i don't think you really begin to learn until you leave the nest [ comfort zone ]

and in return when some one comes your way you are open with them this way thee is always fresh water going back to the source .

there are no secrets in martial arts , those that hide behind that are just liars ;)

[AmanuJRY]

there are no secrets in martial arts , those that hide behind that are just liars

No secrets, just undiscovered truths.:D


i don't think you really begin to learn until you leave the nest [ comfort zone ]

This is what I mean by sharing concepts, but I now realize that it can't be done without establishing relationships (on some level) with the individual whom you are sharing with.

I guess my frustration in this is that most threads on this (and many other) forum end up going into the same arguments and never evolve past them. Acceptance of another persons ideals is important in the sharing process, not nessisarily assimilation of their ideals, but without accepting that that is their stance the process can't evolve.

Then again, it is hard to establish trust without knowing someone beyond an internet forum.

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by Ernie


there are no secrets in martial arts , those that hide behind that are just liars ;)


Everything can be find in the Internet. But not every process can be pice up to make what one wants with some key steps leave out.

There are no secrets in martial arts, those that hide behind are not liars but smart guys/gals purposely leave out somethings to let one delay or will never achive one's development.

One might find the left out step in this life time, One might not.


Yes, there are key steps those who knows dont want others to know. and those key steps were later called ----- secret. and they exist.

[Ernie]

This is what I mean by sharing concepts, but I now realize that it can't be done without establishing relationships (on some level) with the individual whom you are sharing with.


----- your right , that's why we should always put the individual before the lineage or system

go to any gym and guys are just dieing to share there latest discovery , this will improve you curl or bench press , they just love what they do and love to share , theres not some creepy monk in the corner saying i have the secret to the dead lift and no one but the few that follow my path can have it ha ha

[[[Then again, it is hard to establish trust without knowing someone beyond an internet forum.]]]

hey you can borrow my car anytime :D

[AmanuJRY]

Originally posted by Hendrik
Yes, there are key steps those who knows dont want others to know. and those key steps were later called ----- secret. and they exist.

And the only reason for that is fear. Fear that if someone else knows what you know, you would lose your tactical advantage - your 'edge'.

Whatever, I'm absolutly positive that there are many people who know what I know, my tactical advantage is strategy not technique.

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by AmanuJRY


Then again, it is hard to establish trust without knowing someone beyond an internet forum.


when the human is running only by the first 3 chakras, the root chakra for survival, the second chakra for desire, the third for ego which can develop into power god consciousness.

There is no trust can be establish. The hardware takes over, when it is survival --- it is better I live and you die. When it is about desire --- it is better I enjoy and you suffer. When it is about who is better -- I will do anything and everything to keep myself as the best, know it all.


what is the hope? none.

So, until one can activate the 4th chakra where the heart is open and the world is not only "I". nothing will change. most in martial art still operate in the tribal and power god consciousness of spiral dynamics.


as soon as human still operate with the firmware and operating system as the below. There is no hope. So Change that firmware and operating system.



2. Purple: Magical-Animistic . Thinking is animistic; magical spirits, good and bad, swarm the earth leaving blessings, curses, and spells which determine events. Forms into ethnic tribes . The spirits exist in ancestors and bond the tribe. Kinship and lineage establish political links. Sounds "holistic" but is actually atomistic: "there is a name for each bend in the river but no name for the river."

Where seen: Belief in voodoo-like curses, blood oaths, ancient grudges, good luck charms, family rituals, magical ethnic beliefs and superstitions; strong in Third-World settings, gangs, athletic teams, and corporate "tribes." 10% of the population, 1% of the power.

3. Red: Power Gods . First emergence of a self distinct from the tribe; powerful, impulsive, egocentric, heroic. Magical-mythic spirits, dragons, beasts, and powerful people. Archetypal gods and goddesses, powerful beings, forces to be reckoned with, both good and bad. Feudal lords protect underlings in exchange for obedience and labor. The basis of feudal empires --power and glory. The world is a jungle full of threats and predators. Conquers, out-foxes, and dominates; enjoys self to the fullest without regret or remorse; be here now.

Where seen: The "terrible twos," rebellious youth, frontier mentalities, feudal kingdoms, epic heroes, James Bond villains, gang leaders, soldiers of fortune, New-Age narcissism, wild rock stars, Atilla the Hun, Lord of the Flies . 20% of the population, 5% of the power.

[Ernie]

Originally posted by Hendrik
Everything can be find in the Internet. But not every process can be pice up to make what one wants with some key steps leave out.

There are no secrets in martial arts, those that hide behind are not liars but smart guys/gals purposely leave out somethings to let one delay or will never achive one's development.

One might find the left out step in this life time, One might not.


Yes, there are key steps those who knows dont want others to know. and those key steps were later called ----- secret. and they exist.

Bro,
First of all welcome back, second of all you believe what you have to, what ever keeps the post office hat and shot gun out of your grasp.
But I will never by into any of the ‘’ secret crap’’
There is only body mechanics, and attributes nothing else

If you understand how the body works and how actions support each other by linking or disengaging, combined with the right mental intent there is really nothing all that special, what it takes is hard work and discipline to develop those skills

And you’re right anything can be ‘’said and found ‘’ on the Internet but the reality has to be felt [ proven ]


I have no time for illusions and ghost, stories and corpses; I leave that for the archeologists and dreamers.

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by Ernie
hey you can borrow my car anytime :D


True until it is a New Fararys (sp?) cost $500,000 and represent your status. is Fararys a car? :D

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by Ernie


I have no time for illusions and ghost, stories and corpses; I leave that for the archeologists and dreamers.





High tech are not exportable. So, secrete exist.

[Ernie]

True until it is a New Fararys (sp?) cost $500,000 and represent your status. is Fararys a car?


if i had a ferrari i think you would have to get in line with the police , because i must have stolen it and somebody's coming after me ,

but i will always have time to pick up a friend ;)


he my offer still stands when you get back in town , hook up for dinner and you can shock my chakra all the way to emei :D


[[[High tech are not exportable. So, secrete exist ]]]

one mans high tech is anothers childs toy , cave man vs modern man

[AmanuJRY]

Originally posted by Ernie
go to any gym and guys are just dieing to share there latest discovery , this will improve you curl or bench press , they just love what they do and love to share , theres not some creepy monk in the corner saying i have the secret to the dead lift and no one but the few that follow my path can have it ha ha

LOL!:D



Originally posted by Ernie
hey you can borrow my car anytime :D

Uhh....can I use it this weekend, I got a hot date and Lawrence can attest to the fact that my current vehicle is a piece of s***!:D :D



Originally posted by Ernie
If you understand how the body works and how actions support each other by linking or disengaging, combined with the right mental intent there is really nothing all that special, what it takes is hard work and discipline to develop those skills

This reminds me of a concept I was told once (it was regarding music, but it works here as well IMO).

We don't really learn this stuff, it is already known to us from past lives (if you believe), intuition or collective subconcious, we only discover what we already know.

Hendrik,

I understand what you are saying, whith the chakras and spiral dynamics. How can someone encourage/inspire another to advance to these levels.

[Hendrik]

True until it is a New Fararys (sp?) cost $500,000 and represent your status. is Fararys a car?


if i had a ferrari i think you would have to get in line with the police , because i must have stolen it and somebody's coming after me , ------- E



Nope, I will love to see how fast a ferrari can run. It needs a courage driver right?

By then you will know dream can be true.

[Ernie]

Uhh....can I use it this weekend, I got a hot date and Lawrence can attest to the fact that my current vehicle is a piece of shh

he man i thought you were married :)

hell come on down and pick up , and my girl has a real nice suv if youneed a little romper room :D


[[[Nope, I will love to see how fast a ferrari can run. It needs a courage driver right?

By then you will know dream can be true.]]]

hmmm o.k. prove it ;)

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by AmanuJRY

I understand what you are saying, whith the chakras and spiral dynamics. How can someone encourage/inspire another to advance to these levels.

First, you have to stand in the front line to continous doing experiments to see what is possible and what is not. Walk the talk. or try to walk the talk until the talk become the walk.

Then,
You tell them, their dream can become real and we dont have to live as in the old ways. (I think Frankling and jeffeson those old folks proof this right? :D)



BtW, it is not a voodoo about the chakras system.
It is how the ancient trying to describe things with Energy based platform which link mind and body instead of sole physical based platform


all CEO or VP's with ego or identity issues where they have to screem to yield to pound on others got stomach or liver qi (hypertention....) problem.

why? it was recorded, if the third chakra energy is not balance. those are the problem.


On the other hand, Say Fa Jing.
it can be described in the energy based platform or physical based platform.

Now the problem we got into is that when somebody starts to think if one gets into energy based platform can totally ignore the physical based platform ( this is a fantasy lots and lots of CMA people fantasize) , or in denial of there are existance of other based platform ( this is a rigid thought pattern where new imformation cannot free flow in) . we are doom.


See, energy based platform also needs to manifest in the physical based platform. and physical based platform always rely on the energy based platform.


Sure I love to play opposition between both platform to make live more intersting. hehehehe. :D
reading Ernie's different view is a great check if I open my 4th chakra. :D

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by Ernie

[[[Nope, I will love to see how fast a ferrari can run. It needs a courage driver right?

By then you will know dream can be true.]]]

hmmm o.k. prove it ;)



why not?

you live in the richest country in the world in this era. (not it the village you have to hide from the Qing and steal a bowl of rice to survive :D)

you live in one of the largest city with freedom right protected.
there are lots and lots opportunity out there.
grap it. and buy a ferrare.

BTW, you will be out of your mind to buy a ferrare to expect no over speed driving. :D

[burnsypoo]

Originally posted by Hendrik
BtW, it is not a voodoo about the chakras system.
It is how the ancient trying to describe things with Energy based platform which link mind and body instead of sole physical based platform

See, energy based platform also needs to manifest in the physical based platform. and physical based platform always rely on the energy based platform.

Sure I love to play opposition between both platform to make live more intersting. hehehehe. :D

Hey Hendrik,
Is emotion a link between mind and body?

thanks,
eric.

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by burnsypoo
Hey Hendrik,
Is emotion a link between mind and body?

thanks,
eric.


Emotion started with the mind grasp itself.

such as when you get mad the more you think (grasp) about the disturbing thoughts the more your get mad.

it is perfectly normal to have sensasion and aware of the sensation. but once the mind grasp itself or spiral down the thoughts... emotion form and we can get ourself into trouble because it is always difficult to spiral upward.


Just some opinions.

[AmanuJRY]

BtW, it is not a voodoo about the chakras system.- hendrik

I agree fully. I have studied Kundalini (sp?), but have not been formally trained. One way I use to try to show people is, where do you feel the 'energy' when you feel emotion, always it has been where the chakra assosiated with that emotion is.



he man i thought you were married?hell come on down and pick up , and my girl has a real nice suv if youneed a little romper room - Ernie

Married????.......oh, yeah your right.

Actually I was going to have my wife dress up so I could pretend I was with someone else. :D :D

As for romper room, it had better be a suburban, cause I'm a wild man.:eek: :eek: :D ;)

[Ernie]

The ground is the power
The intent and focus is from the mind
The transmission is the body

The pulse between relaxation and contraction,

Creates the shock wave.

Targeting system
Directional focus
Transmission
Engine

No big deal , no secret , just develop the skill


------why not?

you live in the richest country in the world in this era. (not it the village you have to hide from the Qing and steal a bowl of rice to survive )

you live in one of the largest city with freedom right protected.
there are lots and lots opportunity out there.
grap it. and buy a ferrare.

BTW, you will be out of your mind to buy a ferrare to expect no over speed driving. --------------------------------------------------------



i'm from cuba a very poor country ;) were the birds don't sing since they were all eaten , rice is a treat


since i am here i am not impressed by how many shiney toys i can hide myself behind

but a glass of wine , a good meal and a good conversation with friends no that is my idea of rich :D

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by AmanuJRY
I agree fully. I have studied Kundalini (sp?), but have not been formally trained. One way I use to try to show people is, where do you feel the 'energy' when you feel emotion, always it has been where the chakra assosiated with that emotion is.



yup, that stuffy feeling...

that right shoulder riginess or stiff... ( those are from forcing to reason out a matter when one needs is to open the heart( 4th chakra) to embrace and the issue solve itself.)


IMO, there are all different based platform exist. some can substitude each others, some cannot. and all needs to work together.

[Ernie]

Married????.......oh, yeah your right.

Actually I was going to have my wife dress up so I could pretend I was with someone else.

As for romper room, it had better be a suburban, cause I'm a wild man.


__________________

of course with a swing and monkey bars included ;)

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by Ernie



since i am here i am not impressed by how many shiney toys i can hide myself behind

but a glass of wine , a good meal and a good conversation with friends no that is my idea of rich :D



Still, you can have a ferrare, ferrare can be symbolized as courage, freedoom, and full of energy,
your choice to have it or not ofcorse :D

[AmanuJRY]

Originally posted by Ernie
of course with a swing and monkey bars included ;)

LOL........I'll take it!:D

[PaulH]

I remembered it well those days where gangs of menacing kids armed with sling shots roaming and terrorizing my neighborhood. It would be a treat to see any lone pigeon on a blue sky day. What is more funny is where people look at your dog and cat with those glazed looks from charlie chaplin comedies. Like the mouse said, there is no cat in 3rd world country! =)

[AmanuJRY]

Originally posted by Hendrik
Still, you can have a ferrare, ferrare can be symbolized as courage, freedoom, and full of energy,
your choice to have it or not ofcorse :D


A Ferrari symbolizes - abundance, wealth, self indulgence, excess, gluttony. No one I have ever known that had a Ferrari (and that isn't many) ever exibited courage.


Courage, freedom, these are better expressed by an old army jeep...it can go just about anywhere, doesn't cost you $200,000, and will allow you to really test your courage (not with speed, with terrain). Or, if you prefer to spend over $50,000, get a Hummer.

[Ernie]

http://www.pinkjeeptours.com/brokenarrow.html


Courage, freedom, these are better expressed by an old army jeep:D

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by AmanuJRY
A Ferrari symbolizes - abundance, wealth, self indulgence, excess, gluttony. No one I have ever known that had a Ferrari (and that isn't many) ever exibited courage.

Courage, freedom, these are better expressed by an old army jeep...it can go just about anywhere, doesn't cost you $200,000, and will allow you to really test your courage (not with speed, with terrain). Or, if you prefer to spend over $50,000, get a Hummer.


Sure, why not Jeep? integrated meaning embrace and acceptance on others preference right? :D

I like my Acura NDX and the GPS. because it help me to find correct path when driving in the hectic confusing LA highway.

I love to go to Yosemiti and climing to strecth...

and I am sure everyone is different.



You know, one of the big myth in WCK is about placing the elbow in the center line.
There must be a reason why placing the elbow there. it might be a great place to put there stratigicly.
But does the body become unnature and has to give in? Does that close down the chest to make breathing shallow? Does that close down the 4th chakra to make a close heart person? ...
life is always a paradox.

[PaulH]

From what I know elbow in - good for defense, but for attack better elbow out enough to avoid cramping and hampering your movements . WSL was also well known for his good use of elbow-in defense against various opponents in those beimo days.

Regards,
PH

[AmanuJRY]

Originally posted by Hendrik
You know, one of the big myth in WCK is about placing the elbow in the center line.
There must be a reason why placing the elbow there. it might be a great place to put there stratigicly.
But does the body become unnature and has to give in? Does that close down the chest to make breathing shallow? Does that close down the 4th chakra to make a close heart person? ...


or does it protect the heart chakra from shock?

[AmanuJRY]

Originally posted by Ernie
http://www.pinkjeeptours.com/brokenarrow.html


Courage, freedom, these are better expressed by an old army jeep:D

I love the idea, but a PINK jeep.:confused: :D

[Ernie]

hey don't knock i took the tour a few years back ,
those things can climb :)

and if it ever broke down just think how easy it would be to spot ha ha

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by AmanuJRY
or does it protect the heart chakra from shock?

complicated issue, closing the heart chakra is nature and needed in certain instant.

But, doing it as a daily practiced will close down the heart chakra and subject to attack from others because we project an isolation between others and us.


Say, if I am in a party with you and lots of people I have never meet. If I start with very defensive, judging others with my bias standard, and close minded. I can p..sh you and others off and create lots of unfriendly situation or even miss understanding others, or even provoke uncessasary attack. one cant make friends that way, one cant even listen truely with a closing heart. Thus, we will react wrongly due to our distorted listening.

So, we will stuck with our prejudist with that closing of heart.


in additional, if our breathing (blood/oxigen circulation) is shallow due to our posture. our heart beat got accelerated, we can get nevous, get blank in our mind, get less oxigen in our brain, and impulsive ....etc easy.

If our posture is not balance or center, our mind will not be balance. physical based platform does influence, mental based platform greatly , and energy based platform got totally disturb.

since our practice, our training, our daily behavior, our physical,.... do influence each others.


But then, there are times we need to shut the 4th chakra or close our heart to seduction.....


Thus, it is a complex issue.




WCK teaches us to "listen" and to "listen" the heart has to open. physical based platform needs to be at ease, mind based platform needs to be clear and awaring, energy based platform needs to be stable and center.

otherwise, we will force the situation.....

I believe the SLT is also a balancing practice of all platforms in different major condition.


just some different views.

[AmanuJRY]

Originally posted by Ernie
hey don't knock i took the tour a few years back ,
those things can climb :)

and if it ever broke down just think how easy it would be to spot ha ha

Yeah, but pink?????:confused:

Why not flourescent yellow or green??

.....wait a min.......was there a hot chick driving......also in pink......with a little dog......in a pink outfit......:D :D :D :D

[Ernie]

.....wait a min.......was there a hot chick driving......also in pink......with a little dog......in a pink outfit.....


no but i was talked into it by one :D :D :D

[AmanuJRY]

Sweeeeeet.;) :D


Hendrik,

Would it not be logical to protect the heart in battle?

Could opening your heart to an enemy at the wrong time make you vunerable?

IMO we use centerline principles to protect these 'energy centers' as well as vital organs.

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by AmanuJRY
Sweeeeeet.;) :D


Hendrik,

1, Would it not be logical to protect the heart in battle?

2, Could opening your heart to an enemy at the wrong time make you vunerable?

3, IMO we use centerline principles to protect these 'energy centers' as well as vital organs.


1, Sure, certainly, the heart needs to be protected.

2, hahaha, I trick you to raise to open the higher Chakra to know. that get into the realm of Awereness---- Listen :D

3, centerline principle by itself is non-dual. to attack and to protect both use this principle. :D

[PaulH]

I had some doubt about you for a while, Hendrik! Just don't cry wolf too often! =)

[AmanuJRY]

Originally posted by Hendrik
2, hahaha, I trick you to raise to open the higher Chakra to know. that get into the realm of Awereness---- Listen :D


Are you sure you tricked me????:D :D ;) :D

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by PaulH
I had some doubt about you for a while, Hendrik! Just don't cry wolf too often! =)

which memes in spiral dynamics are you identify yourself now? :D


I like to be that yellow pikachu not Worf!

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by AmanuJRY
Are you sure you tricked me????:D :D ;) :D

who do you asked? that hendrik a while ago? no longer identify with that. hehehehe



this is how the yellow concious of spiral dynamics looks and sounds like.
www.wes.4mg.com

[PaulH]

I just think of myself as a child of God very curious about His creation. I play, I laugh, I live and I die. That's about it! =)