Do ALL your forms slow...

[PaiLumDreamer]

Not just Tai Chi forms, but normal fast sets-slow. Anyone do this? I just started myself, actually. It helped me a lot, forces me to focus on details more. I clearly see how poorly I do! I think im going to do my forms slow as part of "cooling down" in my workouts, so I still get to work.

Just thought I would share. :D

[norther practitioner]

I do them at multiple speeds to work on different things.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

not just forms man ... uppercuts, muithai roundhouses, jabs, everything. you don't only do them slow, but you do dedicate some time to it. i was completely freaking amazed at the results.

i have been saying this on here for years, but no one listents to me cause im a ****tard.

[Shaolinlueb]

I do them slow if im tired, but i make sure i get the techniues right. i wont do a form full speed until i get thsoe right then gradually speed it up and find the pattern i want.

[SPJ]

Agreed.

Practice your move right every time.

Speed comes with proficiency.

There is no overnite magic.

I have to practice every move by itself for 100 times in a session before calling quits.

I am practicing Liu He Praying Mantis for the coming months.

Tang Lang Gou Sou. (hooking hand) left and right.

Tang Lang Fong Sou. (blocking hand) left and right.

100 times first. Before I even started the Duan Zhui form.

:cool:

[Starchaser107]

yes
i do this too

[IronFist]

Originally posted by GunnedDownAtrocity
not just forms man ... uppercuts, muithai roundhouses, jabs, everything. you don't only do them slow, but you do dedicate some time to it. i was completely freaking amazed at the results.

i have been saying this on here for years, but no one listents to me cause im a ****tard.

What did you get from it? I heard someone else (SevenStar?) say he tried this and didn't get anything from it. I had this idea a while ago but never really did anything with it.

[Chang Style Novice]

I like the idea of practicing all techs at reduced speeds. Especially aerials.</smartass>

I haven't tried GDA's idea, but it makes sense to me. It reminds me of a truism from art school:

First you get good.
Then you get fast.
Then you get good and fast.

[PaiLumDreamer]

Thanks for the replies.

GDA: You're right...normal techniques should be practiced slow, too. Slow kicks, kicking out, holding, bringing back. All taichi speed. Punches...slow, even with tension sometimes. That would make you stronger, for sure. Lets your body get very used to doing each technique...

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

Originally posted by IronFist
What did you get from it? I heard someone else (SevenStar?) say he tried this and didn't get anything from it. I had this idea a while ago but never really did anything with it.

when you slow down you give yourself a chance to feel every single thing your body should be doing during every single micro inch of the movement. the trick is to not forget intent. you have to really feel like you are throwing it full force even though you are moving like you're underwater. you gain new insight to the slightest raise of the heal, when exactly your hips should begin rotating, when your midsection should tense, when to lean a little and when not to, etc. it drastically improves your perfection of the movement and ability to remain relaxed until impact ... thus increasing your power.

it might sound gay or whatever, but it works. i thought my sifu was full of **** until about 3 months into his class. i was wrong and i was suprised. my sifu used to always say that throwing a sloppy punch or kick fast only made it worse. it took me a while, but now i agree with him. it would be retarded to say that practicing your strikes slowly could replace bagwork and such, but after giving this type of training a chance they are both equally important to me.

my guess is that seven either didn't give it enough time, or wasn't paying enough attention. you can't just throw your jab out there like your reaching for your beer .... you have to really slow down and feel everything that's happening. or maybe it just didn't click with him .... everyone's different and i had the advantage of a teacher beating this training into me. i'm thankful for it.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

Lets your body get very used to doing each technique...

or what he said

[Becca]

Originally posted by GunnedDownAtrocity
or what he said
... Also called training body memory...

I like it for the isometric holds as well.

[Neckbones]

I also practice my forms in slo-mo. I guess some people think that if you go slow you're going to lose power in the form. Actually, I think that by going slow and really concentrating on stances, strikes, etc. it shows more more than by going all out "Speedy Gonzalas" style. The only thing I can't seem to slow down is when I have to jump in the air or something:rolleyes: Have you overcome this problem yet GDA?

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by MichiganMantis
and really concentrating on stances

I'm glad somebody said this. All too often people will say that they are practicing a form slowly and they mean I'm just walking through the motions. That may help you mentally remember the form, but if you are not practicing the full range of motion then you aren't helping your technique.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

Originally posted by MichiganMantis
The only thing I can't seem to slow down is when I have to jump in the air or something:rolleyes: Have you overcome this problem yet GDA?

we really didn't do forms or jump in the air. however if we did i would have certainly overcome that problem. but, im hardcore.

[red5angel]

Capoeira doesn't really have forms but they have some drills for one and two people. There are a couple of different speeds any of it can be played at. I use the slower speeds to work out the technical stuff, and the faster speeds to integrate it all.

[Becca]

Originally posted by MichiganMantis
The only thing I can't seem to slow down is when I have to jump in the air or something:rolleyes: Have you overcome this problem yet GDA?
No jump in slow motion, but I like to put extra enfasis (sp?) on holding the stance right before and after just a bit longer and deeper than I would ata faster speed, the exagerate the hight of the jump.

[SPJ]

Yes, you do.

You may practice jump kick in the swimming pool.

You may practice your kick slowly by holding on to a chair or a bar connected to the wall.

You may lie your side on the floor and practice your outward swing kick and side kick slowly.

Of course, you have to practice balance on a single foot before anything else.

:D

[Neckbones]

Good thread. Too bad SOMEBODY hasn't been saying this kind of stuff for years. :rolleyes:

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

Originally posted by MichiganMantis
Good thread. Too bad SOMEBODY hasn't been saying this kind of stuff for years. :rolleyes:

yeah, me. i told you .... im hardcore.

[David Jamieson]

when you are first learning techniques, you can only do them slow. You should "feel" the movements and the structure that contains the power in the technique.

Once you've done that, then work speed, then power.

If you are still working forms that are meant to be performed with speed and power slow so many years after learning them, then you probably haven't learned them...


cheers

[yutyeesam]

Doing 'em slow, AND infront of a mirror is superhelpful, if you know what details to look for.

Being narcissistic doesn't hurt either ;)

I can see SevenStar's point tho about it not being of much benefit, tho. If you really don't know what you want to improve per se, then you are just doing your already sloppy and incorrect techniques slowly.

123

[Neckbones]

Originally posted by GunnedDownAtrocity
yeah, me. i told you .... im hardcore.

Originally posted by GunnedDownAtrocity
i have been saying this on here for years, but no one listents to me cause im a ****tard
Which is it hardcore or....?

Sorry man. Messin with ya. I've been in a retarded mood lately.

But seriously, I've seen some vids of people doing forms where they're doing the forms way too fast. Power looks OK but the technique is sloppy. For show I guess speed is ok, but in a real situation, which is more important speed or technique? I mean you can have a lot of speed and power, but if the technique is sloppy, you're going to get your a$$ kicked because you didn't apply that speed and power correctly. On the other hand you might be a little slow but if technique along with power is good you're gonna f(_)ck 'em up, right? Or am I just being a retard?

[David Jamieson]

On the other hand you might be a little slow but if technique along with power is good you're gonna f(_)ck 'em up, right? Or am I just being a retard?

You need to keep in mind that you aren't dealing with a heavy bag, your dealing with a live person who is moving and may be equal or superior in skill and experience to you.

develop your kungfu to fit you. don't rely on conscious techniques, rely on your training to bring out the unconcious techniques. make note of those. :p

keep learning, but the more ingrained your techniques are with correct structure, the more you can use them with speed and power and increase your chances of landing a decisive shot.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

y guy ..... If you really don't know what you want to improve per se, then you are just doing your already sloppy and incorrect techniques slowly.


yeah but the point is to try and decapitate the sloppy.

[yutyeesam]

ok, then it's just incorrect. :)

[Becca]

Originally posted by Kung Lek
If you are still working forms that are meant to be performed with speed and power slow so many years after learning them, then you probably haven't learned them...


On the other hand, if you never work them slowly after learning them, ten years down the road, you may not remember how to break'em back down into thier elemental movements, espesially when you start getting a huge portfolio of forms under your belt. Makes it hard to teach it to someone else. You could also find you start to forget minut but critical steps. Doing it slow helps to make sure you aren't loosing part of you art's haritage.

[David Jamieson]

becca, you're making excuses. lol

of couse when a person knos a bunch of forms and they want to teach one they haven't done in a while, tehy will need to review it.

THat review will probably be a careful walk through, but I think that's not what is being said in general here.

Learn the form, do it slow to gain structure, then make the form more lively and perform it as it is meant to be performed.

Forms are just that. Shapes. They contain strings of techniques. If you know a bunch of forms from a style, it is likely that there is repitition of techniques throughout that styles' forms.

If you know the technique enough to use it for real, then you don't need to do it in any other way than how it should be done.

Besides, textbook moves are almost never how the tech works in reality. I think that anyone who has actually attempted to uise their style in a live situation would know that.

speed and power are what give life to techs. Spend too much time training slow and you will be slow and your kungfu will suffer because of it.

[Becca]

Besides, textbook moves are almost never how the tech works in reality. I think that anyone who has actually attempted to uise their style in a live situation would know that.
And many form have little transissions between textbook moves that my not be used in any other form. As you get good at it, you stop thinking of this transission as a technoque of it's own, and just do it. But what happens when you need to break it down for a student? You tell them how to do it. then you show it. To you it makes perfect sence, but what you see in your mind's eye and what the student sees with his/her untrained eye are very different.

I'm sure you are shaking your head in disagreement, but think about it. Written note to help refresh memory is one thing, but a form is more than a string of mechanical expressions. There are little newonces that make the form come to life when done properly. Practice is how you maintain it. Right? But how do you teach this if you can't breack it down with all the minut details intact? You can't. And if you can't successfully pass this knowledge on, then you fail your responsability as a desciple of your style.

[David Jamieson]

well, I do disagree to an extent, but I agree that the novice eyes do not see the same thing as the experienced eyes.

I also think that forms are very practical things that amount to time saving devices in the exploration of a system of combat techniques.

The physical body is the physical body, the mind is the mind, the breath is teh breath and shape is shape. If I want to put a nail into wood, I use a hammer and not a wrench.

I would know because of training to use a hammer and I would know how that hammer is used.

If I was completely in the dark, I wouldn't even know what the tools were and if I view the tools as art in and of themselve, as opposed to practical and useful items, then they will rust and become useless from lack of use.

Martial arts are "martial" first. LIttle nuances in the flip of a wrist matter in the inculcative process, but they amount to lick in full on sparring or real combat. You either are able to execute the technique, or you are unable.

If you train in a particular way, you are going to express in much the same way.

Yes , martial art is progressive, but too much rumination and introspectiveness can actually be detrimental to your development as a person who is able to "do" Kungfu.

I understand the value of the progressive path, and I understand teh value of maintaining your basics throughout time, but I think that purposely doing forms slow because of doubt, or unsureness in your self is detracting from being able to actually develop the techniques.

I do believe that forms are libraries of techniques and not secret energy dances. The simpler the angle you use to approach the knowledge, the more likely it is that you will gain a depth of understanding.

The mystical malarky only serves to cloud the reality and you wind up with a box of tools that have never built anything.

[Becca]

I understand the value of the progressive path, and I understand teh value of maintaining your basics throughout time, but I think that purposely doing forms slow because of doubt, or unsureness in your self is detracting from being able to actually develop the techniques.
That's akin to never rereading a driver's manuel because you've been driving for years. But the average person who has been driving for years can't pass a written or practical driver's exam. Not untill they re-read the manual. Nor does rereading the manuel meen you doubt your skill as a driver.

I do think I see what you are getting at, though. You are thinking that that one who practices forms slowly never do any thing but practice forms slowly. You would be right that this is a waist of time, but that doesn't invalidte the practice of doing forms slowly. I doubt any who does forms slowly only does them slow.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

Originally posted by Kung Lek
speed and power are what give life to techs. Spend too much time training slow and you will be slow and your kungfu will suffer because of it.

disagreed 110% if all you ever did was practice your techniques slow then yeah i can see your point, but incoporating it into regular training did nothing but improve both my speed and my power. maybe forms are different than individual techniques and im out of the loop.



Originally posted by Kung Lek
I think that purposely doing forms slow because of doubt, or unsureness in your self is detracting from being able to actually develop the techniques.

again .... im talking about individual techniques, but doubt and uncertainty isn't the reason for doing them slow.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

i might be drunk now, but tomorrow ill be sober.

and ill not liek being at work.

i dont think kl has given it enough time either, which suprises me, but digging through maggots looking for a new release can be very frustrating. i can't be how then i do not know.

i luahg out loud!!!!!!!!

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

christ this is so drunk but what i say ...


doesn meditation help you gight?

well ... not directly but sorty of.

practicing slow techniques n the event is the same but more direct.

insight is greather in both of them, but in parcticing slwo you gain greater insitht to the punches you be throwing.

now someone needs to suck me off before bed.

[scotty1]

Don't look at me....

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

wow .... at least the worst thing i wake up to are posts that i don't remember making.

i'm glad i drink at home.

[Neckbones]

It's all good. I just needed to drink 15 beers to make any sense out of them.