Scaremongering

[Toby]

Found this (http://www.kingcountyjournal.com/sited/story/html/160240) link on another forum. Scary story (with lots of flaws IMO). The dangers of creatine! :eek: :rolleyes:

[Vash]

That sounds quite possible and truthful.

Of course, I'm a liar, so what can you do?

That's a horrible, horrible scaretactic from people who have done little research on the supplement trying to get it out of Li'l Bobbie's reach. Deplorable.



For the record, I don't use creatine. However, much to the contrary of my previous opinion on it, and of the advice I received, I've decided to start a thermogenic. DOn't hate the player, hate the game.

[Toby]

Sounds pretty journalistic to me. I have no evidence to dispute it, but bits like:

"The surgeons began cutting out the dead muscle out of his legs. In its place, new bones began to grow. That, too, had to be cut out, he said.

Even now a second femur bone lies close to the skin in his upper left leg."

and:

"At one point, the 5-foot 9-inch Starkovich weighed 215 pounds with 2 percent body fat."

for example. That's almost as little b.f. as Iron :eek:. Seriously, is 2% possible? I thought 3% was minimum b.f. As to a 2nd femur - is that possible? And cutting away muscle meant bone grew in its place? Anyway, funny story.

On the thermogenic - who cares? Like I said, it just raises heart rate hence metabolic rate AFAIK. I drink coffee, so I'm as guilty as you. I don't take the ECA stack but I have no objections to it besides potential risks. Coffee's fairly popular (esp. in your homeland). Some doctors advocate daily aspirin to thin the blood. Ephedrine? Popular in TCM and we're on kfo here. Good luck with it.

[IronFist]

1. Where are the pictures that it mentions at the bottom?

2. No one has 2% bodyfat.

3. What is a "creatine level?" I'm not saying it doesn't exist -- it probably does -- I've just never heard of it.

4. Creatine causes new bone growth now? Ok.

[Vash]

I kind of doubt the veracity of the entire thing. I've never heard of a secondary femur growing in as a replacement for lost quadriceps muscles.

However, if this kind of stuff did happen to this kid, I'm really, really doubting the whole shebang.

I'm writing an email to the reporter, and am going to try to get a bit more information about the situation.

RE, the thermos, I really can see no difference between them and the MRPs I drink, or the regular diet I follow, or the workouts I do. It's just another way of controlling my body without using much more dangerous substances (like the ECA stacks). I know how to properly train, diet, and utilize nutritional supplements. So long as I follow a safe and logical route with them, it'll be all good.

[rubthebuddha]

toby -- it's not journalistic. it's quite the opposite, which most news today is.

- GOOD journalism has several sources; this article has only the subject and an article previously published by the same paper. even all the material the doctors supposedly provide to the article is given second-hand by the subject:


``The doctors (at Harborview) told me it was the creatine,'' he said. ``My body wouldn't process it.'' It ended up poisoning him.

- GOOD journalism doesn't assume for the reader, like this one does right here:


Starkovich's case is rare but no one disputes the possibility of damage to the body from the use of creatine and other supplements.

- GOOD journalism does not argue a case or present a viewpoint as fact. in paragraph 6, the article clearly states that creatine is dangerous:


about the dangers of creatine and in paragraph 24:


The process was quiet and insidious.

the article finally states in paragraph ... 34? ... that
There are no long-term studies on creatine but there have been complaints about dehydration, cramping and nausea as well as kidney problems. no long-term studies have been done, no scientific bodies or medical experts consulted, and the article only uses a previous article and the word of a 22-year-old lifter for all the information provided? that, my fellow fitness pals, is really a pathetic example of journalism.

the article could be saved if the reporter/editor bothered to follow up with a few things:
1. consult the harborview physicians. i know several at harborview. nice folks, and they do **** good work. if they had an opinion about creatine, they'd be very open to sharing it.
2. they'd provide sources for the dehydration/side effects claims.
3. for the love of pete, they'd interview SOMEONE else, other than a 22-year-old who, judging by the way the story refers to him, doesn't know **** about nutrition.

to put it nicely, the KCJ is a local paper that competes with both the seattle times and seattle post-intelligencer for the same local territory. the KCJ focuses on local stuff but doesn't do much outside of the county. the times and p-i do the local stuff and do tons of stuff for metro, state, national and international news. if you were going to subscribe and take the time to read, would you buy the local metro paper that does it all, or buy a smaller paper that has less to give?

(by the way, the times is locally owned, so don't gimme any bull**** about "supporting the local business")

[Toby]

Woah! Easy, Rub, you're making me read stuff!

I just posted it for a laugh. I didn't take any of it seriously. Just something I found on another forum that I thought sounded funny (haha & hmm funny). I liked the super bone growth stuff (imagine a superhuman skeletal system). And I liked the idea of ****ing black. That'd give you a fright!

[rubthebuddha]

there, that's my journalistic answer. anyone who got a college degree in journalism should know all that. i do. ;)

anyhoo, my fitness answer would be this:

1. crock of ****. how the **** can an amino acid contribute to dead muscle and a SECOND FEMUR? did the protein shake get any such scrutiny? the thermogenic? hell, did even the BRAND of creatine get any scrutiny? that's like saying since daewoos are unsafe pieces of ****, all cars are unsafe pieces of ****.

2. any of those side effects? DRINK WATER. dumb****s. the purpose of creatine is to bring more water to the muscles. that water has to come from somewhere. is it going to be your cerebral spinal fluid? is it your bloodstream? or are you going to be smArt and have that extra water come from ...

dun dun dun

a glass?

3. as i said in my last post, the kid obviously knew jack **** about nutrition. who knows what he took, when he took it or whether he's even telling the truth on his 5g per day habit.

4. it was one kid. i've heard negative first-hand stories, including you forumites, from maybe five people, myself included. if something could actually cause a second femur to grow on a leg, don't you think the FDA (in all its brilliance, i know) would do something about it? if the bull**** in this story has an ounce of truth to it as far as creatine goes, then it's a fluke. it's one kid. if secondary femurs, black pee and dead muscle tissue were anything resembling the norm, creatine would be pulled faster than the chevy chase show.

[rubthebuddha]

toby -- i just get testy about bad journalism. it's my undergrad degree, and **** like this is part of why i left the industry. couple it with something i care about (nutrition), and you have the potential for seriously ****ing the rubby off. :mad:

to make things more fun, my flaw with creatine was that it made me more moody than i already am. as i've been off the stuff for two years now, imagine how pleasantly i'd have reacted to this article had i still been supplementing with creatine. :)

[Serpent]

Yo, Rubby, chill out dude!

The reason the kid had all those problems is because he is a mormon and all the real gods were punishing him.

[Ford Prefect]

Wow. What a load of BS. "He ate red meat which made him grow a tail and he had 55 lbs of undigested meat in his colon!" ;)

Rub, I think you need to get upset over this. It doesn't sound like you're taking this seriously.

[rubthebuddha]

:D

like i said, lads -- i'm moody. :cool:

[mickey]

Greetings,

I am back on the soapbox again: CREATINE REALLY IS DANGEROUS.

Now back to that article. It looks as if the "victim" is blaming creatine because there has been no long term study on it. It renders creatine manufacturers vulnerable to anyone who reports a bad trip. And that could spell Millions of dollars. The symptoms that were reported are strongly suggestive of steroid abuse. It had striking similarities to the difficulties experienced by Superstar Billy Graham as a result of steroid abuse.

mickey

[IronFist]

What side effects of steroid abuse? Muscle necrosis and extra bone growth? Muscle necrosis, maybe, if you inject contaminated stuff into the wrong place the wrong way. But from proper use of legit (meaning "clean," not "legal") you're not going to have any of that.