Authentic Ving Tsun Association

[YiWan]

Hi to all !
just to inform -
new association in Hong Kong. This new subject support masters like Lok Yiu, Chan Chee Man, Ma Hang Lum...

http://www.authenticvingtsun.org
avta@authenticvingtsun.org
FAX NO.: (852)-2538 1767

greetings
YiWan

[stuartm]

Hi YiWan,

Im not trying to rouse any arguments here, but was just wondering why the AVTA has been formed? I know a lot of people (including myself at times) have been more than a bit deflated by the service from the VTAA particularly in relation to the turnaround of certificates and the cost.

However, I still feel the VTAA has a great legacy and it was Yip Mans wish that Wing Chun unite under this banner and promote the art. A break-away association i feel is a little hurtful to Grandmaster Ip Man and the massive amount of effort that he and his fellow brethren put into establishing such an association.

The VTAA have done a great amount of hard work in putting together the 1999 Conference, Yip Man Tong in 2002 as well as the various publication released. As i understand it , the VTAA are a voluntary organisation and are struggling with resource.

Wouldnt it not be better to have an open debate with the VTAA about peoples concens and aim to strengthen the organisation that came into fruition through the dream of Ip Man?

How do the sons of Ip Man feel about this - have the AVTA consulted with Sifu Ip Chun and my Si-Gung Ip Ching?? I imagine they will feel very hurt.

Wing Chun is already being eatenaway by incessant politics and petty rivalries. I feel that the formation of a splinter organisation will only fuel this process.

Just my thoughts, id like to hear others.

Regards, Stuart

[Vajramusti]

We dont need another organization.
Work with VTAA, dont work with VTAA, ignore the VTAA---but dont need yet another wing chun organization.

[AmanuJRY]

We need to strive toward unity, not segregate furthur.

[Ernie]

organizations are like holes in the head
one is to many :D

[PaulH]

I would have to wait for that long list nailed to the VTAA door first before I join the reformers! So, where and what is this all bout? =)

[AmanuJRY]

Originally posted by Ernie
organizations are like holes in the head
one is to many :D

What about the ears? nose? mouth?

[Ernie]

see no evil , speak no evil and hear no evil

as for the nose , i don't even want to know what evil smells like

close them all ha ha ha

[CFT]

The reasons given by Ma Hang Lum for starting the AVTA are a bit inflammatory to say the least, although they don't single anyone out, just the whole world ...

"We fellow students (he and his fellow founding members of the AVTA) were disappointed by the content of the 1999 Conference, and were worried that 'authentic' Wing Chun would be lost to the world. In the long term, people would eventually lose interest in practicing Wing Chun.

After many discussions, we decided to set up the AVTA to promote the Wing Chun Kuen transmitted by Grandmaster Yip Man.

Now we ask for people around the world to support the activities of the AVTA. You can become the following association members ..."

Other pages discuss the rates for membership.

Following the sentiments of previous posts: "do we really need this?" What real value does the org. add to the WC world?

[AmanuJRY]

The real question is....what would they be doing with all the money?

Is that what it is all about?

People can carry on the leagcy of YM without an organization. Organizations are usuall all about the benjamins.

[YongChun]

I think it is a good idea to have one governing body and to have standards but it is really too late for this. There has been much development by Leung Ting, by William Cheung, By Wong Shun Leung, by Wang Kiu and by almost every teacher in Wing Chun. This problem now is similar to that of China trying to control Taiwan. It just is not possible anymore. There is no one person who can claim they know the authentic Wing Chun completely. It is not possible to define what is the best Wing Chun. The Wing Chun taught by the great Grandmater Yip Man may not even be the best anymore. Even he himself changed as the years went by. While Yip Man was alive there were already many closed cliques who did not acknowledge each other or even knew what each other learned from Yip Man. Thus Leung Sheung students cannot agree with Wong Shun Leung students. Tsui Shan Ting cannot agree with Wang Kiu students. William Cheung students cannot agree with any of the above yet all learned from Grandmaster Yip Man. So at best we can form sort of a committee that recognizes the differences as valid expressions of the art. Perhaps it can oversee competitions between all lineages so that by practical application in this venue all can learn from each other and if there is one superior method then slowly over time all lineages might converge to that approach. However I think this is unlikely because there is too much separation between the various approaches now. It is however very possible for all lineages to get along recognizing each other's differences and learning from each other as has happened in various friendship seminars that have been held in Canada and in the USA. Now there is no one person that everyone recognizes as being representative of the kind of Wing Chun that they think is good. Every Yip Man student has been criticized by other Yip Man students and Wing Chun as a whole is laughed at by many martial artists these days as being great talkers but non action people who cannot demonstrate the effectiveness of their skills. The situation in the 50's was very different. At that time Wing Chun talked with their hands and thus it got it's great reputation. But since the advent of tournament competition Wing Chun in the eyes of the martial arts community at large has continued to go down hill.

Ray