Sifu Dino Salvatera

[Eddie]

I just downloaded the trailer for Master Dino’s left right shooting snake form from joibatsin.com.

I have only seen pictures of master Dino, but never seen him in action. Even thought the video clip only shows a few short clips of him performing, I was very impressed with what I saw (even that latin American looking student of him looks pretty well). I must admit (and please don’t bash me for this) I never really took much notice to Master Dino. I think, maybe its because he keeps very much a low profile in comparison to some other masters, but I will most certainly look out for him in the future. For an older man (no disrespect intended) master Dino moves pretty well. I’m ashamed to admit he made realise I need more training time.

I wouldn’t mind checking out some more video clips and stuff of master Dino. So please you guys from the hung sing school, you must add more video clips to your site so that we can see more of Master Dino. Also, when will you have stock of that video again? It seems like a pretty nifty video to have.

Well done guys, respect to master Dino!.

Ed

[Judge Pen]

You should have seen him in person. :eek: I'm heading out to San Fran in a couple of weeks and I have every intention of stopping by his school and paying him a visit.

[Fu-Pow]

Once you are in THE DO you can never leave THE DO.

Never forget that we are watching you.

[Judge Pen]

:D I haven't left. I just work out with other styles from time to time. This is with the full knowledge and consent of my teachers, btw.

Serioulsy, Master Dino is an amazing martial artist and a thread recognizing that doesn't need to trail off in other directions just cause I've had the privilege of meeting him and seeing a little bit of what he has to offer.

[Eddie]

We could come on this forum and bash people, but we cant come onto this forum and complement people?

Even though I do agree with you fu pow that Master Dino’s CLF has a touch of hung flair, I still think he is doing well for an old man. Never met neither him, nor any of his students, but I support anyone who seem to have a genuine love for their art (whether I like their conduct or not).

Ed

[hungsingclf]

Thank you both judge pen and eddie for your kind remarks. sifu is an amazing man who loves his gung fu. our kung fu is from futsan, china, jeong yim's hung sing gwoon. it is pure and undiluted. no hung kuen flavor to my knowledge. i invite anyone in learning more about hung sing choy lee fut to attend the august 22 public demo at the gee tuck som tuck on waverly st in sf chinatown at 9am. it would be a great chance to meet retired grandmaster jew leong and current gm dino. plus a chance for us to make new friends with other clf brothers. also we will be going to futsan to train with gm ho, cherk wah in october for 2 weeks if anyone is interested.on a seperate side note sifu grew up in sf chinatown, being 5 feet2 inches tall, he had to fight quite a bit so he cut his teeth so to speak in using his hsclf, not in tournaments.peace to everyone and i hope to see you guys their.

[SifuX-HSK]

i want to address this hung movement thing.

my sifu is pure hung sing choy lee fut. he is an old time gangster who uses clf the way he see's most effective. my sifu's movement is very signature and you can tell this in all of his long time students as well. he has a special type of flow. you should see him in his prime. oh yeah, you know who also thinks he moves pretty strong was gini lau the eagle claw master.

most of the other choy lee fut schools we used to say have hong kong movement campared to us. but when we went to fut san and performed for the elders there they recognized us as directly linked to fut san. i saw there movement and they moved just like us.

my sifu has only learned choy lee fut since 1957-58 and has never taken any other gung fu style. all of his long time students have followed in his footsteps and stayed with the same teacher all these years. i have been with him since 1981 at the age of 13 years old. since then i have never seen another teacher similar to master salvatera.

master salvatera is from the san francisco chinatown old school. he has kept a low profile because the old hung sing kwoon kept a strictly low profile. he followed in the footsteps of his teacher.
but the time has come for him to come out to the public and share his perspective of choy lee fut and its usage. he is a force to be reconned with, and i hope he will be around for many more years to come. he is like my father. and i would do anything to protect him. i am glad people are beginning to take notice.

thanks to all those who are in support of our school, and my sifu.

sifu frank

[Serpent]

Can you post a link to the video please.

[hungsingclf]

hello. www.joybotsin.com

[hungsingclf]

After speaking with my Sifu, it is his wishes that I make some corrections with all due respect to my Si Hing Frank. First Sifu wishes it be told that he does not wish to be associated with gangsters. Secondly, it was Lily Lau , not Gini that payed him the compliment, Sifu respects her greatly. No disrespect on my part to my Si Hing Frank. I look forward to seeing you in August bro.

[Eddie]

Sifu Frank,
All respect, I have to disagree with you that I don’t think CLF needed to be changed to suit larger people or to fit into any other way of fighting. The style suits anyone, just as it is. Although fighting methods have changed over time, the fighting philosophy of CLF stayed pretty much the same, and can be used just as effective today, as it was used 200 years back. The style is pretty flexible, and it is not really nescasary to alter much to adapt to newer fighting methods.

I do admit, larger people might be slower than smaller people when doing forms, but we can make up for it in other ways (and vice versa). When it comes to the fighting theory of the style, it doesn’t really matter how you are build, the philosophy still stays the same.

While I often wish I was build like some of my favourite CLF players, I realise that the style sets no limits to me (being much taller and much heavier than the general kung fu player). Our fighting strategy is pretty simple and effective, and regardless of your build, you should be able to do everything. I mean, while I am heavier, Im also taller, and probably in the right proportions than everyone else). Yeah, I may not be able to do a tornado, hurricane or other flying kicks as well as some smaller guys, but those are not really the core of CLF.

When a smaller person does a CLF form, it looks as cool as anything else. My kung fu brother Joe – sow choy- is one of my favourite clf performers. His moves are crisp and clear and solid, and when performing, he can make CLF not only look effective, but also look pretty **** good (but just watch out, one day I will beat him with my forms :), I hope). I use him (there are others who are just as good, but I know him, and has seen him perform in person) as a way to measure my progress with forms. Although I know we are build different and we may have different views on CLF, this is just a guide for me to make me a more better kung fu player.

So I guess it all depends on how you look at it. Just wondering why your grandmaster thought he had to change the style. I agree, fighting methods may have been different, but I think sticking to principles, the style would still measure up to anything else. But when I looked at Master Dinos video clip, he still looks pretty much like CLF to me. I dotn think fu pow’s post was meant in disrespect, as he explained it pretty well in a follow up post that we all look different when doing our forms.

Last thing – How old is master Dino. From the pics and the video trailer he doesn’t seem that old, but simple maths made me think he should be in his late 50’s early 60’s? I sure hope when I reach that age, I will still be able to move like that.

Ed

[Eddie]

Hung Sing School in America

Sifu Frank,
It would be pretty interesting to read up on some of the schools history and its experiences over the last few decades (kind of like that movie Gangs of NewYork meets Once upon a time in China). I always wondered what kung fu in the US was like before Bruce Lee came. Didn’t Bruce Lee Live in SF too? Did people from your school have had any ties to Bruce Lee? Would be nice to hear some stories.

Ed

[Judge Pen]

I believe master Dino was born in 1945 -- 59 years old.

[SifuX-HSK]

eddie- to make what i said a little more clearer for you, "Lau Bun" when he came to america felt as a fighter he needed to change "his" Hung Sing Choy Lee Fut to adapt to his surroundings. for example, using a chop choy on a person much heavier than you may not be as effective as using it on someone much smaller. a real fighter, will evaluate his gung fu system and change what needs to be changed to fit the needs of the day. what was effective in china may not be as effective here. so therefore, My Great Grand Master Lau Bun changed his gung fu to make it work effective here. It was already done, so i beg to differ with you one that point.

on another, i am 5 foot 8 and 225. you can call me fat, if you want! but to claim that a larger person will be much slower than a smaller person is incorrect. you haven't met me. you haven't seen me. i may walk slow. but that is because i have recovered from a 50 foot fall in which i was paralyzed and told i would never walk again. and look at me now. i will put up my speed against anyones anyday, and i am not afraid to lose either because i know there are much faster people out there.

now, about the hung sing horse. Professor Lau Bun was taught by yuen hai-Jeong yim's senior student. Lau Bun has never changed the way clf was taught to him. he lived in the time that clf was growing strong. and as i have been told the southern chinese have short strong horses. professor lau bun was strict on the horses and never changed the to practice them. so i think the old school way for all southern gung fu was the short strong square horse, not the long wide one.

oh eddie, in lau buns day the gung fu really was meant for self defense, and for the chinese who feared for their life in this strange land often killed with it. Professor Lau Bun's philosophy was if you have to show someone your gung fu you must kill with it. that is why america has this big mystique on secrecy towards outsiders, the chinese would totally avoid answering the question if they knew gung fu or just even say no to you. but they weren't going to teach outsiders!

our school existed in chinatown at least 20-30 years prior to bruce lee's arrival. yeah he was born here, but went back to hong kong. our school did have some run-in's with his people, but no-one in hung sing ever lost to bruce lee or his students in those days. the gung fu hung sing used was meant to hurt, maim, or even kill the person you were fighting. it was not a game then. it was truly killed or be killed for chinese. that is why the hung sing today still have that serious mentality about our lineage and gung fu abilities or reputation. we are, and always have been a fighting school. competition never entered the picture until much later.

frank

frank

[Fu-Pow]

Originally posted by SifuX-HSK
[Bon another, i am 5 foot 8 and 225. you can call me fat, if you want! but to claim that a larger person will be much slower than a smaller person is incorrect. you haven't met me. you haven't seen me. i may walk slow. but that is because i have recovered from a 50 foot fall in which i was paralyzed and told i would never walk again. and look at me now. i will put up my speed against anyones anyday, and i am not afraid to lose either because i know there are much faster people out there.

Great topic. I think Eddie was referring to size as in tallness and frame size, not fatness. Guys who are "big" (as in tall and big) move slower. It just takes more effort to get everything coordinated and moving in the direction that you want. And it takes more effort to stop it once it starts moving. The advantage big guys have is that they can hit you with a much greater force....once they get it moving. This is a major problem for big guys. Because as I understand it speed is the #1 factor in fighting, followed by power and accuracy.

As a big guy I can tell you that I'm shifting my emphasis to being more explosive. What I mean by explosive is learning to accelerate faster. When you accelerate faster you can get up to speed more quickly and generate more power also.

This is a major thing for big guys but for little guys also.

One thing I notice in a lot of CLF players is not being explosive enough. They have good form and good power but they aren't delivering it correctly.

Also, I thought it was interesting that in another post Eddie (another big guy )mentioned using grappling to finish a fight.

That's exactly the same thing that I kind of worked out on my own also. When you are big when you get in close and you get out of your kicking and punching range. It becomes a grappling game. Where as the smaller guys have much more ability to kick and punch closer in because they have room to accelerate, especially against a bigger guy

Just some random thoughts. :D

[Eddie]

Sifu Frank.
As Fu Pow said, bigger people do move slower. I watched a video of myself when I was younger and much lighter, and I can tell you for sure that I moved much faster then, than now. I would like to think that I understand the movements better now, so hopefully I do them with more clarity and more focus and power. Maybe its also got to do with age, but size do count ‘against’ a bigger person in some instance. Just watch kickboxing fights. The light and middle weight fights are usually much faster and more ‘flashy’(for lack of better word) than the heavy weight fights, but heavy weight fights are usually more powerful. But this wasn’t the issue. Believe it or not, you and I do agree on some issues here.

I still maintain that our style does not have to be changed to suit bigger people. A charp choy is still a charp choy, I doubt that it needs to be changed if you fight against a bigger person. Yes, strategies might change depending on who you fight, but CLF is not only about strategies.

I’m probably going to get bashed for this, but I am not a big Bruce Lee fan, for the mere reason that I think Bruce Lee did not really understand his kung fu all that much. Now don’t get me wrong, I am not saying that Bruce Lee wasn’t a good fighter, just I think that if he felt he needed to borrow things form other styles to make his kung fu better, he probably did not really spend much time on his own kung fu to understand it completely. I am not comparing Master Lau Bun with Bruce Lee, so please don’t take offence to this statement.

I am also not entirely convinced that every kung fu player is capable to kill someone with his kung fu. Not for lack of skill, but simply that it takes a lot from a person to be actually really able to kill. I have this theory that there are levels of threat involved in all fighting situations, and how you react to that, is how you are going to react to your fight, but this is another topic all together.

I respect your school and your master, that’s why I asked some of these questions. Your school has obviously stood the test of time, and all of you guys seem to be genuinely in love with your style and your school.

Fu Pow,
I like ending fights with a throw or take down, not to go down and grapple the guy, just to make some space for me to run away. If I can execute a proper throw on the cement or tar surface, my opponent would already be injured, and it gives me enough time to run away. I wouldn’t want to hang around for him to pull some weird stuff on me.

Being a big guy has its advantages and disadvantages. I am happy the way I am. I think CLF suits me well, and wouldn’t want to change anything right now. I would like to be able to do some wicket spins and tornado kicks, but I probably would be able to do it if I train hard enough.
Ed

[Fu-Pow]

Originally posted by Eddie


Fu Pow,
I like ending fights with a throw or take down, not to go down and grapple the guy, just to make some space for me to run away. If I can execute a proper throw on the cement or tar surface, my opponent would already be injured, and it gives me enough time to run away. I wouldn’t want to hang around for him to pull some weird stuff on me.

Being a big guy has its advantages and disadvantages. I am happy the way I am. I think CLF suits me well, and wouldn’t want to change anything right now. I would like to be able to do some wicket spins and tornado kicks, but I probably would be able to do it if I train hard enough.
Ed

Eddie,

What I meant by "grappling" WAS throws and takedowns. I refer to jointlocking, throws and takedowns as grappling (ie on your feet). I refer to arts like BJJ as "groundfighting." It was just a word confusion.

Peace. :D

[Eddie]

I knew you measnt something like that fu pow, I followed your posts previously (remember the ground fighting post) and you and I have similar views on fighting.

Ed

[Deuce Diggler]

Hey they got the Left Right DVD back in stock.

http://www.joybotsin.com/store.htm