I know im out of shape...but jeeze

[PaiLumDreamer]

I know for a fact im not in the best shape. We have kickboxing class about twice a week, and thats my cardio workout. The workout itself is good, and sometimes I can hardly get through it (depending on what they do), but I felt I was starting to make progress.

Right now im on vacation, so I want to try to work my stuff while im gone, of course. So, I go outside to work on the form im currently learning. I go through it once, stopping where I need to work and marking it off in my head. I finish the form, then I go back to work on those specific parts.

Well, im already breathing hard by just doing that one form. Its not even very long; but hey, I keep going. I then start practicing this double outside crescent kick. (Kick once, turn, kick again). Not even 30 minutes and im dead tired after doing this over and over. What gives? :confused: When I do combo kicks on a bag, I get tired, but I can get through it. Bah. Im confused.

Is the cause of my problem just being out of shape?

[Toby]

Probably. Lots of us here like HIIT (http://trainforstrength.com/Endurance1.shtml). Good results.

[rubthebuddha]

listen to tobers -- he be correct. hiit is about the best thing you can do for this problem. doesn't have to be running. it can be bag work, swimming (harder to keep the interval times straight, but oh well), biking -- anything in which you are using lots of big muscles and going balls out with them. :)

another good example is found in the running man (http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do;jsessionid=129614749185B33C9B08B5EB B5185611.ba13?article=251run2) article by christian thibadeau. it's a simple and quick workout, and it has a variety of uses.

the most important things to remember on a hiit workout are:

1. be warmed up when you start it
2. go balls out -- as much as you can give. come close to yarfing, but don't step over the yarf line.
3. make sure you're hydrated before you do it, and make sure you re-hydrate yourself after.

just like training or lifting, a workout will only yield what you put into it. if you put your heart into it, you'll get a healthier heart (and the rest of you) out of it.

[IronFist]

I thought rtb was going to make fun of me in his reply. :D

[Volcano Admim]

i dont think the suffering of hiit is worth doing
but how they say each crazy dude with his crazy stuff

i was gona recomend you some glass lifting
but i think, it depends on your objectives
are looking for looks objectives
are looking for fights objectives, and whitin that, what more specificly, just stamina, strenght, or what?
what are you looking for?
that is, if you are looking. you could be just hearing too and that would be ok.

[Toby]

Originally posted by Volcano Admim
i dont think the suffering of hiit is worth doing
but how they say each crazy dude with his crazy stuffSome of us enjoy the suffering Xebby.

[PaiLumDreamer]

Yeah, suffering is fun. :D

Im really excited about putting together a workout plan, now. Tomorrow I plan on starting, since its way too late as of now.

Anyway, im aiming for "fight stamina". Strength will come later. I need to be able to work out long, as well. I want to be able to do forms/techniques without getting as tired as I do now.

Anyway...can someone help out by giving me an example workout regime (so I can modify it to my own)? From warmups to cool down?...Also, I wont know many of the specific workout names. Go easy on me, im a newb at this. My workouts before now consisted of the work I got during class. That brought me up to a feeling of well being that I can go further than just surviving the class workouts, but getting into much better shape. "30 gallon tank" Mmm Mm. Good.

[PaiLumDreamer]

Forgot to mention, im on vacation. Body weight stuff would be way better, cuz as of now..I have no way to get to a machine. My car is being stolen from me, since my parents are up here, as well. We only have one car. Boo.

[Toby]

Like we said, do HIIT. The program you follow is only limited by your imagination. Here's a couple of examples - running. Over the Aussie summer I did sprints in the oval. I'll probably go back to it next summer. Now it's winter I do rowing ergometer sprints. Another idea - burpees. Whatever you do you need to be able to do it flat out for maximum effect. Like rub says, pushing the verge of hurking is the most effective I find. You can do HIIT with bag work (one guy here does heavy bag work and intermittently drops down and does 2 pushups). You can push around a heavy wheelbarrow, whatever. Whatever you do , remember that the use of legs helps up the heart rate compared to no legs.

You need something to keep time as well. I got a sweet heart rate monitor but you could use a boxing round timer. The advantage of the HRM is it shows me my level of effort.

Follow the full program even though it takes 3 months to get to the good stuff. You'll be wishing for the early phases when you get into the end phases but most importantly it'll build up a good base if you don't leave out the early phases. The 1st phases aren't bad as a warmup, it's the 20/10 intervals that hurt. Always do some sort of a warmup - it makes the (e.g.) 20/10 much more effective when your motor is already started. I do 10min then my intervals then 5min or so to cool down.

Good luck!

[rubthebuddha]

I thought rtb was going to make fun of me in his reply. i missed out on such a good chance, too. it was asking for it, and i whiffed. :(

i must be extra tired if i can't even follow up on razzing ironfist. :o

[PaiLumDreamer]

I dont think I understood HIIT very well.

If I pick sprinting, would I just sprint for 90 seconds, rest 90, and do this for times? (for phase one?)

What is HIIT mainly used for? (What type of drills)

Plus...This cant be my *entire* workout.

Blah. Im not making any sense to myself. Im way too tired. I knew I had a valid question when I came to post...maybe it shone through my crazy sleepyness a little.

Thanks for being patient.

[Toby]

Originally posted by PaiLumDreamer
If I pick sprinting, would I just sprint for 90 seconds, rest 90, and do this for times? (for phase one?)Yep. Spot on. Then after 2 weeks change phases. When you hit phase 6, go back to 5, then 6, then 5, 6, ... You could always try to do more intervals than 5x20/10, but believe me that's enough.


Originally posted by PaiLumDreamer
What is HIIT mainly used for? (What type of drills)Pure and simple - cardiovascular fitness. It really makes a difference. Most exercises you pick will have some carry over to other exercises so whatever you pick should help with your forms. But if you picked e.g. running for your HIIT program, it wouldn't help your bag work stamina as much as picking bag work for your HIIT. Get it? But I imagine picking forms work for your HIIT wouldn't really work because you won't get a strenuous enough workout. E.g. I stay around 85-90% of my max HR for my HIIT intervals. Can your forms maintain that sort of activity? 85-90% of my max HR is pretty much as hard as I can go.


Originally posted by PaiLumDreamer
Plus...This cant be my *entire* workout.Nope. It's just a cardio component of it. You said you'd worry about strength later, so ask away when you want strength advice. Besides this you'll want to work a bunch of stuff as well (like your MA skills).


Originally posted by PaiLumDreamer
Thanks for being patient. No probs.

[Ford Prefect]

Toby and Rub both referenced great articles on this. The only thing I'd add is that I feel it's necessary to also build a base on regular long distance running, biking, or swimming. Nothing much, just once or twice a week do 3 miles (if biking 9 miles, if swimming 1 mile).

[rubthebuddha]

Toby and Rub both referenced great articles on this. heh. the only reason i know about running man is because you linked it up several months ago. :D

[PaiLumDreamer]

Ok. Now that im awake again, I think I got it.

Every two weeks, I move up a phase. Then, after 6 weeks I go back to phase one, but do the bottom part:

Week 1+2
4X90/90
Week 3+4
6x45/30
Week 5+6
8x20/10
Week 7+8
5x60/60
Week 9+10
7x30/20
Wek 11+12
10x20/10


How often should I do it during the week?

[norther practitioner]

if biking 9 miles

On biking...


I here some people talk about biking 2-4 miles then tanking, others talk about 20-30 mile rides.. depends on what, when, where, and all that like any other excercise....

In early biking season, I like to do short loops, and change up intensities as much as I can. I live on top of a mountain, so I don't have much choice on intensity on the way up, so I'll go for a 6 mile ride, 3 down, to warm up, stretch, then do HIIT esque things on the way up.. sprint, rest, sprint, rest, moderate, sprint, moderate, rest, ect... That would be a day 1, on day 2 I'd try to make it as far as I could without resting. Now when I'm out on a trail, I usually do anywhere from 5-7 miles mountain biking (sometimes I'll like to do like 15-17 miles but those are epics), when I do this, I try to just keep a good pace, that keeps me sweating, and my heartrate up around what I feel is about 75-80% so I can keep going (don't want to tap out at 5 miles on a 7 mile ride) and you want to have fun!

[Tak]

Wasn't Running Man that movie where Jesse Ventura played a gay aerobics instructor?

[Toby]

PLD, I should've read my link before posting before. I meant go to through phases 1-3 in order then stay in 3 but cycle between the 8x20/10 and the 10x20/10. So you go:

4x90/90
5x60/60
6x45/30
7x30/20
8x20/10
10x20/10
8x20/10
10x20/10
.
.
.
with 2 weeks on each. You can just stick to 10x20/10 if you like, but the idea of dropping back to 8x20/10 is very appealling to me after 10x20/10's. You can also try for more than 10 intervals, but you'd be surprised, 10x20/10 is pretty hard. It's only 5min, but it's a hard 5min. Your HR doesn't have time to drop in the 10s rests at all really. So it's 5min at whatever HR limit you give yourself.

Like Taku says in the article, you can mix up the exercises but I like inertia. I find that I'm more able to push my limits when I know the exercise inside-out, plus I don't lose interest in exercising like some people do (the type that need personal trainers). E.g. when I switched from running to rowing it took a few weeks before I was hitting really high HRs. I'm sure when I go back to running it'll be the same.


Originally posted by norther practitioner
... I try to just keep a good pace, that keeps me sweating, and my heartrate up around what I feel is about 75-80% ...You might be surprised. That's why I like my HRM. It tells me if I'm actually putting in the effort or not. 90% for me is it - I literally can't go any harder most of the time.

[PaiLumDreamer]

Should I run every day? Or every other day, for rest? Or what?

Also...what is this HRM you're talking about? Where can I get one of those? I was going to pick up a watch with a countdown timer tomorrow, but if those would be better...hey.

Thanks a lot for all this info. :D

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by PaiLumDreamer
I know for a fact im not in the best shape. We have kickboxing class about twice a week, and thats my cardio workout. The workout itself is good, and sometimes I can hardly get through it (depending on what they do), but I felt I was starting to make progress.

Right now im on vacation, so I want to try to work my stuff while im gone, of course. So, I go outside to work on the form im currently learning. I go through it once, stopping where I need to work and marking it off in my head. I finish the form, then I go back to work on those specific parts.

Well, im already breathing hard by just doing that one form. Its not even very long; but hey, I keep going. I then start practicing this double outside crescent kick. (Kick once, turn, kick again). Not even 30 minutes and im dead tired after doing this over and over. What gives? :confused: When I do combo kicks on a bag, I get tired, but I can get through it. Bah. Im confused.

Is the cause of my problem just being out of shape?


it could be anything from lack of sleep and or iron , bad digestive health or too much complex carb or bad timing with your meals...............there is alot of very small changes you can make to aide your cardio or any other performance........if you don't improve on tobys' advice , let us know and we'll be happy to give you a few more pointers ;)


" you want to know what I pin my hopes on.............my constitution".....

Jet Li (chinese sign : yr of the hare)

[Toby]

Originally posted by PaiLumDreamer
Should I run every day? Or every other day, for rest? Or what?You can try every day. HIIT is pretty intense though. Here's the generally accepted rule of thumb - 2 days a week won't cut lean body mass, 3 or more will. If your priority is losing fat, do 3 or more. If you just want to up your fitness and maintain muscle, do 2 (or possibly 3). See how you feel.


Originally posted by PaiLumDreamer
Also...what is this HRM you're talking about? Where can I get one of those? I was going to pick up a watch with a countdown timer tomorrow, but if those would be better...hey.HRM == Heart Rate Monitor. Mine's made by arguably the most popular company, Polar. Mine's the S610i. The more expensive models (like mine) have good interval training features. I wanted an even more expensive one, the S810i which would've allowed IBUR but it was an extra AUD$200. Cheaper ones will just read your HR with no timer info. I wanted countdown and HR info, so I spent the money. Plus it comes with pretty good software for monitoring your training and an IR interface to your computer. If you don't care about your HR just get a countdown timer.

[blooming lotus]

I don't really want to give you contradictory advice but if we're talking cardio building, "runners magazine" has some v.good articles if you can get hold of a copy


half an hour of aerobics on rising 'll probably also do the same trick ;)

[Toby]

That's the thing though, Eyebrows. 1/2 hr aerobics vs. 5min (+ warmup/cooldown) HIIT. Being a lazy Westerner, the 5min is more appealing and provides other benefits (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8028502&dopt=Abstract) that make it the smart option.

[blooming lotus]

ahhhh........but hiit doesn't have funky toons now does it :D

[Toby]

See, I view aerobic class music as pure **** that makes me want to projectile vomit. Take a bland top 40 one-hit-wonder, speed it up and add a repetitive doof-doof bass line. When I used to be in the gym and they'd leave the circuit room door open I wanted to bang my head against the wall to stop the pain. I used to go and slam that ****er shut with my best :mad: face. To each their own I guess.

[blooming lotus]

lol@:mad: face...........got pretty heavy then ha??



ahh ha..because as we all here know ........if it don't go doof........the rules say, its just not allowed..............now everyone else ......... consider yourself informed!!!