Dumb training method?

[IronFist]

I just read this on a website:


Hang a piece of paper a few inches from the wall and strike with full speed and power. As control improves, move the paper closer to the wall. Eventually, you'll be able to strike the wall with full speed and power without injuring your hand.

So, you're going from striking paper to suddenly striking a wall without injury? What did I miss?

[SevenStar]

I've heard of a similar method used for poison hand training, but it didn't involve a wall, only the paper.

[Ikken Hisatsu]

no i dont understand either. sounds like lies to me.

[yenhoi]

The striking paper method is nothing new. I dont know how it helps you hit a wall tho.

:eek:

[Meat Shake]

You could try it, but you would probably hurt your hand. :rolleyes:

[Goldenmane]

Point sparring/control training, methinks.

I came across this idea years ago, and can't now remember where, but I think the purpose was to make it so you could, in a manner of speaking, instantaneously pull your punch or some such.

It has nothing to do with delivering power with the punch, despite what was said originally in the cut-n-pasted bit.

Basically, if you want to make it look as though you're hitting a wall really hard... :rolleyes:

[Tak]

Hmm...isn't it so that initially you're hitting the wall at the end of your follow-through, as you punch through the paper, so there's less force? Then, as you gradually move the paper closer and closer to the wall, the wall is getting more and more of the strike's force?

[Shaolinlueb]

he forgot the part of hitting the wall in tehre I think.
didnt the monks used to use sheets of paper on top of each other? and put them against a wall? then they would hit the papaer until it was down ot the wall, the put more on and then hit it over and over.

is that what they are talking about?

I call B.S. on the technique Ironfist posted.

[rubthebuddha]

lueby is right -- bs.

why would you want to stop your force at the moment of impact? you don't aim for the tip of the person's nose -- you aim for six or more inches behind their nose, and swing hard enough to push their nose back that far.

[Shaolinlueb]

or if your really good.

you can punch 6 inches infront of someone and they will still feel like they are getting punched. true story, I will give you the name of the GM who can do that and has really good chi. If your interested.

[red5angel]

I think the key is it has to be RICE paper ;) Then it all makes complete sense.

[The Willow Sword]

In the classic film "Snake and Crane arts of Kung fu" starring Jackie chan as "Su yin fung" He demonstrates a new technique to a young tiger clan warrioress dressed as a boy. he holds up a piece of paper and says "here strike this,,try to break it" so the young arrogant girl throws a stupid looking straight punch at the paper and it just glides off her fist,,she tries again and it does the same thing. Jackie chan says "here let me try". she holds the paper up and with a fast flick of the wrist he slaps the paper breaking it. the young tiger clan warrioress looks amazed to which Jackie chan replies " see the trick is not to hit so hard"

"thats the dumbest thing i have ever seen" replies the tiger warrioress. " actually i think im a pretty smart guy,,a genious infact" says chan :rolleyes:



PEACE,,,TWS

[yenhoi]

BL's ToJKD has the paper striking training method in it.

That, of course, means its kinda like the stolen fire of the gods, duh.

:D

[Becca]

Originally posted by yenhoi
BL's ToJKD has the paper striking training method in it.

That, of course, means its kinda like the stolen fire of the gods, duh.

:D
Most styles of KF have it in some form or other.

I've always thought the goal was to make your hand movements flowing and presise. You need to move you hands very suddenly to break the paper, but if you let your fist be relaxed, hitting the wall hurt very badly. It's that whole control thing. Can't seem to get away from it...

[blooming lotus]

it's just a way to develop your snappy power.you know, crash like a wave and all..variation on the towel......


Ps....for those that didn't get it already......( whispers) I dont think you're supposed to hit the wall :p

[Shaolinlueb]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
it's just a way to develop your snappy power.you know, crash like a wave and all..variation on the towel......


Ps....for those that didn't get it already......( whispers) I dont think you're supposed to hit the wall :p

No I get it, just that today it will take too long to train, msot people give up before then. I rather build my iron body.

[IronFist]

Originally posted by Becca
but if you let your fist be relaxed, hitting the wall hurt very badly.

Have you ever hit a wall before?

[blooming lotus]

lueb...........fajing is seriously important.............in the end a good fajing tech can overcome size and strength.......just don't overlook it.........

ps.even with iron body, if your opponent has the dimmak / chin na you only really have torsoand maybe head protection.......unless of course you're closet master ;) :D

[Shaolinlueb]

BL fajing is important. but im betting the guy on the street ****ed off at me cause i was drooling over his grilfriend doesnt know fajing and has no clue about it. infact he probably took some sort of BJJ class. having that snort of snapping/whipping power i dont need. i already havge some good snapping pwoer and workling on it on a daily basis.

[SevenStar]

several people on this forum have stated that fa jing can't necessarily be reproduced at will. If this is true, then that may not be the most useful skill to have in a fight...

[IronFist]

Originally posted by Shaolinlueb
BL fajing is important. but im betting the guy on the street ****ed off at me cause i was drooling over his grilfriend doesnt know fajing and has no clue about it. infact he probably took some sort of BJJ class. having that snort of snapping/whipping power i dont need. i already havge some good snapping pwoer and workling on it on a daily basis.

I'd rather have BJJ than fajing or dim mak :)

[Becca]

Originally posted by IronFist
Have you ever hit a wall before?
Yes. And other things. I partially dislocated a back knukle this past Janruary because I threw a punch but didn't anticipate it hitting/being blocked solidly. It was. It hurt very badly. It took 2 months for me to be able to use my hand for anything more than a cup holder. It still twinges from time to time.

This type of drill is supposed to be done gradually. It's main purpous isn't to train one to keep thier fist tight, but it does work well to teach that principle.

[scotty1]

"
several people on this forum have stated that fa jing can't necessarily be reproduced at will.

That's interesting. I just take fajing to be a discharge of energy, I've never seen it as anything else, but people say its a different thing, a specific way of discharging energy.

I must say the whole thing makes my head spin. It seems to be a 'high level' taiji skill that shows your 'level' but not whether you can actually fight or not.

Would you mind telling me who said the quoted above? the significance to me of the statement would depend on who said it.

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by IronFist
I'd rather have BJJ than fajing or dim mak :)


There's nothing mystical about fajing but because you clearly don't have any idea what you're claiming not to want and have never to my knowledge implied you knew, I will say only that your statement speaks for itself.............trust me, I think you wanna think about incorperating some impact technique ;)

[Becca]

BL- What's wrong with the "impact Technique" those arts already use? Or are you implying that Fa Jing is the only wat to go?

[Vash]

I'd sooner have a BJ than BJJ.

That produces teh reel Fa Jing :D

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

im with vash.

now who's it gonna be? i'd appreciate two volunteers so i dont have to have sloppy seconds.

[IronFist]

^ lol

[blooming lotus]

fajing is just explosive power not exclusive to any style.........if you don't have it, you gotta expect to s*ck in the strike-power deartment......end of story

[Shaolinlueb]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
fajing is just explosive power not exclusive to any style.........if you don't have it, you gotta expect to s*ck in the strike-power deartment......end of story

not really

you can have a decent punch and not understand fajin at all.

then again diud mike tyson use fa jing because he could tyhrow a mean ass punch?

or are you talking about the little 5 foot monk who can kill a horse with one punch and make their inside explode?

[Brad]

What does fa jin tranlate to?

[IronFist]

If I hit you with a baseball bat that's not fajing and it's still going to do some damage.

And would you consider a Thai kick to the thigh to be fa-jing?

[Becca]

BL- Fa Jing isn't style-exclusive, but it isn't the same as explosive power. It is a technique all it's own, just as Iron Palm and Qi Gong are. It is a closely related to meditation in practice and casual observers wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the two. There are three basic uses for it: healing, defence and offence.

the healing aspect is were you use you redirect you chi to an injury in a way that breaks down the blockadge that causes, or is caused by, the injury.

The self-defence is were you get you chi moving in your body so that you can focus it in an instant to a spot were you anticipate a hit. It's kind of like circling your hands to anticipate needing to block, and olny form a block the split instant a foot, fist. ect. makes contact. It will absorb the kinetic energy of the strike to reduce the damage to your body the same way as kevlar.

The offencive use is the reverce of both the others. You focus your chi into the spot that you intend to make contact with in the instant just before you actually make contact. You then "push" the chi into your opponant.

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by Becca
BL- Fa Jing isn't style-exclusive, but it isn't the same as explosive power. It is a technique all it's own, just as Iron Palm and Qi Gong are. It is a closely related to meditation in practice and casual .

you are entitled to interperate however you choose, but I disagree. are you sure it's not a technique you could or should incorperate into your qigong/iron palm??????

[Becca]

It can be incorporated, yes. It can also be used as is. It was taught to me as a "free-standing" technique. It doesn't add strenth to a punch, but depth; it lets you punch through a target with out useing bruit strength. Iron Palm does teach you how to add umph to a punch using strength. Qi Gong is also a body conditioning technique that teaches how to except pain. Fa Jing is not a conditioning technique for the body, but the mind.

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by Becca
It can be incorporated, yes.



as opposed to one over the other ;)

[Becca]

Originally posted by Becca
It can be incorporated, yes. It can also be used as is. It was taught to me as a "free-standing" technique.

You sure are good about cutting people's post up to get at that one piece that you need to use out of context, aren't you.:rolleyes: Either that, or English isn't your first language. I'd hate to think you were one of those eyots that can barely read and write.:confused:

[blooming lotus]

you know that 's not true, and if that's what you need to say to get a little face back.I'm fine with that ..................

cheers :cool:

[Meat Shake]

Fa - technique or method
jing - Chinese for martial power. A combination of "Li" (muscular power) and "Qi".
From Taijiquan theory by Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming

[blooming lotus]

:eek: :p

Toby take note..that'll be Bl 1#.rest of the forum 345 987 ;)

[IronFist]

Answer my questions.

[blooming lotus]

what questions babe???....you lost me :confused:

[IronFist]

Originally posted by IronFist
If I hit you with a baseball bat that's not fajing and it's still going to do some damage.

And would you consider a Thai kick to the thigh to be fa-jing?

[Toby]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
Toby take note..that'll be Bl 1#.rest of the forum 345 987 ;) Roflmao! Sometimes you really crack me up Eyebrows! Point noted.

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by IronFist



oh.can't quote in txt quotes ha.........ok well that thai kick would probably never be fajing.but if he he did the crash like a wave / piston thing while he exeuted it, yah, he'd be using fajing...........

[SevenStar]

The thai kick is not meant to be fa jing - there are seven "energies" used to generate power in a thai strike - I'll save what they are for a separate thread - but that's not to say that you won't see fa jing in a decent boxer. As I've said before, some arts didn't take the time to theorize and name everything. the principle of yielding can be seen in some muay thai defenses - they simply ddon't call it yielding. It has been pointed out by cma on this forum that peng can be seen in judo - these arts use similar principles, but didn't take the time to name and categorize them.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by IronFist
Answer my questions.

No!

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
fajing is just explosive power not exclusive to any style.........if you don't have it, you gotta expect to s*ck in the strike-power deartment......end of story

explain.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by scotty1
Would you mind telling me who said the quoted above? the significance to me of the statement would depend on who said it.

I'll look for it. It's been awhile though - maybe before the database switch. If I find them, I'll post the links here.

[blooming lotus]

:mad: :( :rolleyes: .okay..........if fajing is explosive power, you should hope you're packing some right???


clear enough???

[SevenStar]

No, it's not clear enough. Are you saying that fa jing is the ONLY type of explosive power? a few posts up you said that a thai kick would never have it. Do those kicks not hurt at all?

[scotty1]

Yeah thanks SevenStar.

Don't worry about it too much, but it would be interesting to see who said that.

but in all honesty it doesn't make any difference to my training what I think fajing is or isn't :)

[gfx]

Originally posted by Meat Shake
Fa - technique or method
jing - Chinese for martial power. A combination of "Li" (muscular power) and "Qi".
From Taijiquan theory by Dr. Yang, Jwing-Ming

I hope you can view Chinese:

Hm, the "fa"(发 ) in FaJing(发劲 ) means to deliver.
The "fa" you are talking about is the Fa(法 ) in QuanFa(拳法 ) ( fist method ), they are totally different characters.

I've always viewed FaJing as an explosive power generated by the torque of the waist with good body alignment, as supposed to explosive power generated mostly by the muscles in the appendages.

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by SevenStar
No, it's not clear enough. Are you saying that fa jing is the ONLY type of explosive power? a few posts up you said that a thai kick would never have it. Do those kicks not hurt at all?

no..........I said it would never be it...of course you can pack it withoput knowing its' name, ...and that's my point ;)

[_William_]

Isn't a weak slapping backfist more conducive to putting a hole in paper than a real powerful punch? Since its more about the speed than the bodyweight you put in the punch, if you are trying to break paper.

I think hitting a heavy bag gives way better feedback than paper. It seems paper is more an indicator of speed than overall power. Try flicking the paper with your finger... and then try hitting it with say a straight punch.

[Shaolinlueb]

i got some fa jing right here [grabs crotch] but its for the ladies only ;) :D

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

i might be a little tipsy but i'd be really suprised if anyone here had more than a basic academic uderstanding of it.

that's not to say it shouldnt be discussed, just making a point.

i sometimes scratch myself and then smell my fingers.

[blooming lotus]

GDA......thx for the confession

:eek: :( :D




Originally posted by _William_
I think hitting a heavy bag gives way better feedback than paper. It seems paper is more an indicator of speed than overall power. Try flicking the paper with your finger... and then try hitting it with say a straight punch.



feel what you're saying, but why is it every time lately I go near a sand bag I break a bone????.......just kidding.totally irrelevant, but sand bags are good for practicing direct impact and paper is good to enhance your snappy tech............no great science about it really............

oh and on speed and paper.........so nearly what I'm getting at , but just not quite.......................

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by _William_
Isn't a weak slapping backfist more conducive to putting a hole in paper than a real powerful punch? Since its more about the speed than the bodyweight you put in the punch, if you are trying to break paper.


that's the whole idea - at least it's the idea of the similar method I talked about earlier which was supposedly used to develop poison hand techniques - its developing whipping power.

[blooming lotus]

which in a slap you have more of than you do in a hard out powered push through punch...................

[IronFist]

gfx, welcome to the forums.

[gfx]

thanks