breathing

[kungfu cowboy]

I was wondering if any of you have been taught any particular method of breathing while doing the first form; or while practicing in general, and what do you think about it.

E Pluribus Rectum

[Watchman]

A concentrated, intense breathing action stretches the spinal cord and activates the entire central nervous system, which in turn increases your awareness by being able to process all sensory input quickly. It also creates a stretch across the kidneys and the adrenal glands, which then pump adrenaline into your system.

Using the breathing action as a point of reference to concentrate on, you will attain a calm, relaxed state of mind that will give you the ability to make clear decisions.

To breathe properly for this exercise, use the diaphragm as a pump to pull air into the lungs and then to compact the trunk to control the flow of air as it is expelled...breathe in to full capacity using your diaphragm to pull your chest open and hold the air for just a moment. Now, contract your diaphragm and slowly expel the air until your lungs are completely empty. Remember that your diaphragm is where you control the entire process from - and don't forget to stay relaxed. Repeat the breathing process over and over until you are done exercising.

The breathing/meditative exercise acts as an adrenal response control training regimen. The exercise is similar to what is taught military snipers to control their breath and heart rate in order to cut down on the "shakes" that come along with the adrenal response.

tnwingstun would be able to provide the best commentary on that aspect (the sniper stuff).

Anyway, the value lies in being able to consciously control and direct your body's immediate impulses to fear/rage based encounters (i.e. fighting).

http://www.wckfc.com/masters/man/Sec2-1.GIF

Not to tire of learning is wisdom;
Not to weary of teaching is benevolence.
-- Tzu-kung

[BeiKongHui]

When practicing above are you trying to breathe down to the dan tien or are you doing middle breathing?

"Gong Sao Mo Gong Ching Sao"
- When you talk with the hands,
best not to speak of polite hands.

[Watchman]

Dan Tien my friend. I use a combination of a slight dynamic tension with the breathing, using adduction pressure in my legs with a sinking pressure from the shoulders that locks in my entire body at the "dan tien".

Squeazing the diaphragm on the outward breath also compacts the power into the dan tien and creates the internal pressure that jump starts the chemical dump.

You can get quite a powerful, euphoric feeling from all the adrenaline and endorphin that gets coursing through you as a result of the exercise. It teaches you how to maintain that "calmness in the middle of the storm" state while under intense pressure (fighting).

Note: I said "slight" dynamic tension in the legs and "slight" squeezing from the diaphragm. Gotta stay relaxed! :D

Once you get proficient with the foundational exercise you can start working on using more specific dynamic pressure stuff to draw the power into your hand positions (tan sau, fook sau, wu sau, etc). When you do it right you can actually feel the power flooding into your hands.

http://www.wckfc.com/masters/man/Sec2-1.GIF

Not to tire of learning is wisdom;
Not to weary of teaching is benevolence.
-- Tzu-kung

[This message was edited by Watchman on 07-03-01 at 10:38 AM.]

[BeiKongHui]

I haven't really used tension in my breathing when doing SNT so I'm going to start trying. Do you breathe in a slow rythm or at a more normal speed?

"Gong Sao Mo Gong Ching Sao"
- When you talk with the hands,
best not to speak of polite hands.

[dre_doggX]

I never went to a wingchun kungfu school yet. I only study out of William Cheungs Books, tai chi videos( this helps alot with chi sao) and magazines. and even internet articles.
I have been studying for about 2 or 3years and Sil lum Tao and CHunKil (Iam not going to go father then Bil Jee tell I get a teacher.) and I can no push hands and bij jee fairly well. Everyone who does wing chun and understands the way the system is set up should always do the frist form slowy with breathing. why/????????
becauses its really a gi gong form intended to teach the practicer almost all the fighting moves and gi gong at the same time.

Andre Lashley

[Watchman]

You want to do the breathing in a very slow, deep rythm.

If you are doing it in conjunction with SLT's "slow part" (the tan sau to fook sau to wu sau to fook sau, etc.) portion in the first third, it should take at least 10 breathes for each forward movement to reach extension (tan sau and fook sau) and at least 6 to 7 breathes for wu sau to return to your chest before you start the next movement.

You work your way up from 20 minutes each session, once a day, until you're taking upwards of an hour to complete the entire exercise. My average time is around 45 to 50 minutes, but I've busted out a few 90 minute sessions before. Talk about vibrating legs! :D

http://www.wckfc.com/masters/man/Sec2-1.GIF

Not to tire of learning is wisdom;
Not to weary of teaching is benevolence.
-- Tzu-kung

[kungfu cowboy]

Watchman, have you ever tried ujai (yoga) breathing? It is basically the same as you describe; three part breathing (lower, middle, upper) mouth closed, breathe thru nose, plus a slight constriction in the throat to allow greater control and use of entire lung capacity.

I recently added this to my wing chun in general, after seeing how it worked with my yoga. Pretty cool stuff. Really added a meditative quality to SLT, and allows greater relaxation in general.

E Pluribus Rectum

[Watchman]

Cowboy,

My vast, extensive knowledge of yoga comes from glancing in the window while I walk past the yoga class at the gym when I'm over there once every six months. :D

I think the difference from what you described is in how you are using your throat. My breath control comes from the diaphragm (using it to expand and compress my trunk), while keeping my neck and throat completely relaxed.

When I practice the exercise for power development (as opposed to meditative - there are different aspects you can use the exercise to concentrate on) I keep my mouth open (but teeth lightly clenched), and breath in through both mouth and nose simultaneously. When you do this it kicks in the body's natural "stress response" (simulating the sharp intake of breath that comes when you get startled), wherein you start using the exercise to learn how to control and direct that stress response.

The only difference I see between Wing Chun's meditative/breathing/internal power exercise and things like yoga is the immediate goal of training. The Wing Chun exercise is meant to teach you how to deal with/direct/control your body's immediate, involuntary responses to a combat/fighting environment.

You said that using the throat pressure helps with lung capacity, how so??

http://www.wckfc.com/masters/man/Sec2-1.GIF

Not to tire of learning is wisdom;
Not to weary of teaching is benevolence.
-- Tzu-kung

[kungfu cowboy]

Hmmm, good question!I am not 100% sure on the mechanics, but the constriction allows you to control the rate at which air enters your lungs. But you don't necessarily have to breathe very slow or anything. I think that it has something to do with a difference in air-pressure. I was sort of parroting others; but I HAVE experienced the effect. Let me do some research on this. I am curious too.

E Pluribus Rectum

[Martial Joe]

I didnt read watchmans so I dont know if this has anything to do with his... but...
...Breath through your nose while having your mouth open...have your toungue at the roof of your mouth while doing so...
Then let your toungue down and let the air out...you will feelmore sunk.Remember to breath from your stomach area instead of your upper upper body.You should feel like there is more weight on your quads...it also helps get those stiff shoulders down...ENJOY!

[kungfu cowboy]

Watchman, here is a link on yoga breathing, and using the entire lung volume available. I'm trying to find a scientific study too.
http://www-it.hive.no/oj/musikk/trompet/exercise/yoga.html


(I really wish I knew how to make a word represent the link.)

E Pluribus Rectum

[This message was edited by kungfu cowboy on 07-03-01 at 10:47 PM.]

[Watchman]

When you want to post a link and title it just click on the "URL" tab under the "Instant UBB Code" and it will prompt you to copy in the url, then prompt you to title it -- and there you have it.

Soon you will be wise in the ways of Internet Chuan™ young jedi.

BTW, thanks for the link.

[kungfu cowboy]

Watchman, thanks for the tip! Now I can appear suave! :D

E Pluribus Rectum

[jameswebsteruk]

A student once asked Wong Shun Leung how he should breathe when practicing Wing Chun.

He replied, "So you don't die".

:)

"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running
around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." ;)

[S.Teebas]

Thats a good breathing technique Martial Joe, i saw you post it a while ago and have tried it at training. Its very effective. I have found once you really get relaxed and start to breath deeply... by continuing breating naturally it really improves relaxation in the upper body (kind of similar to how people breath while they sleep..very deeply. notice how relaxed you are when you wake in the morning??) which also helps sensivity while rolling. It is possible to feel you opponents intention inside your body!

Practicing the SNT, (like Watchman said) the part where you do the Tan, Fook, Wu helps cultivate this feeling. Although there is a general amount of times you are supposed to perform this in SNT (3 or 4), i find doing these movements (trying these breathing techniques + more) for maybe 10 minutes is great for focusing on relaxing. Then the rest of the form's quality is so much better! (and your WC in general will improve) :)

S.Teebas

[WCFish]

Hi Watchman, could you just clear up what you mean by adduction pressure in your legs and sinking pressure in your shoulders.
thanks WCFish.