What is Silk Reeling?

[YongChun]

Hi,

I am wondering what the Chen style Silk Reeling exercises are and what kinds of things they develop? I have studied Yang style Tai Chi before and still practice this.

Ray

[SPJ]

If you practice Yang style, there should have been silk reeling exercises, too.

Tai Ji is all about silk reeling (Chan Si).

:cool:

[YongChun]

In the Yang style I trained I learned from Raymond Chung in the 1970's:

the 108 form
8 single pushing hands
double pushing hands
double pushing hands plus walking
Long pull back
the 88 movement application form
the Tai Chi sword (55 moves?)
I didn't learn the Tai Chi knife or Sabre
mixed applications

We didn't do any specific set of exercises called Silk Reeling exercises although how the Tai Chi was done may have used these concepts. Maybe some of the students senior to me know about Silk Reeling.

Yang Cheng Fu (1883-1936) -> Yang Sau Chung (1910-1985)-> Chan Yan Man (Raymond Y.M. Cheung 1913-)

[Mo Ling]

The "silk reeling excercises" are a fairly modern concept that was basically promoted and created by Chen Xiaowang as far as I know. It is basically a set of simple excercises that are aimed at giving beginners a way to understand how the body is supposed to work in Chen Taijiquan without training the broader gongfu frame.

Perhaps they are great or just more seminar and video fodder, it is not for me to say, but they are not particularly old or original to the Chen system. Some people call them warm ups, and stretching. Everything that is trained in so called silk reeling excercises is what one should be doing at every spot in actual form training if they have th time or inclination to train it.

M

www.taijigongfu.com

[apl]

Mo Ling wrote:
"The "silk reeling excercises" are a fairly modern concept that was basically promoted and created by Chen Xiaowang as far as I know."

Actually my first exposure to Chan Si Gong was from Master Zhang Xue Xin who is a senior disciple of Master Feng Zhiqiang. In addition to other elements of Master Feng's system, Master Zhang taught his (Master Feng's) complete set of Chan Si Gong which is over 30 exercises. Master Chen Xiaowang's set is much more concise and very detailed. I don't have direct experience but know that Master Chen Zhenglei also has a set of Chan Si Gong. Bottom line is that others including one example of a previous generation had developed a set of such exercises.

Mo Ling wrote:
"Perhaps they are great or just more seminar and video fodder, it is not for me to say,"

Well, in my POV and experience I would say that the value leans much more toward the "great" side.

Mo Ling wrote:
"but they are not particularly old or original to the Chen system."

This is what I have told as well but also have heard that before the advent of Chan Si Gong training, practioners would practice segments of the forms as single movement training. How does Master Chen Yu's method train fundamental qualities within the forms? I guess from your discussion that you don't do some form of single movement training?

Mo Ling wrote:
"Everything that is trained in so called silk reeling excercises is what one should be doing at every spot in actual form training if they have th time or inclination to train it."

Exactly. But how to clearly understand all components of more complicated movements without constant supervision and clear training method with understanding of basic jings/qualities? The forms are very complicated with very little repeat. Most (all?) martial arts have a method which include training fundamental aspects which define the art.

apl

[Fu-Pow]

Chan Si Gong exercises (Feng Zhiqiang's) are just pieces of the form that are broken apart and repeated over and over. In addition, there are some specific exercises that are specifically designed to loosen and "open" the joints.

They work really well too. I have a bad elbow that sponatneously "pops" back into place when I do the elbow and shoulder exercises.

[yutyeesam]

This is an interesting topic (which I'm sure has been covered before).
Could someone explain this phrase to me:
"He uses a lot of silk reeling in his form"

What does that mean from an internal context?

From an external context, i take it to mean that he's drawing some extra pretty circles, or contracting & expanding extra with the standard posture/transitions.

Thanks
123

[apl]

Hello Fu-Pow,

Personally, I wouldn't describe Master Feng's SRE as "just pieces of the form that are broken apart and repeated over and over." The elbow exercise that you mentioned is a perfect example, turning the head side to side, forward and back (chest and stomach folding), sholder rotations, hip rotations, etc etc are not to be found in the exact format within the forms and clearly not simply movements from the form practiced in isolation. I would describe his set as more of a comprehensive set of energies distilled from his forms. But that is just my meager take on what I had trained under Master Zhang. Since I have never studied with Master Feng directly, I guess it is possible that he trains single movments differently than Master Zhang.

apl

[Fu-Pow]

To me it means that he is using a full body spiral mechanic.

[yutyeesam]

Originally posted by Fu-Pow
To me it means that he is using a full body spiral mechanic.

Is there an "energy" component to the explanation? Like, what would Yang Jwing Ming say about it?

Man, if I'm trying to calm my mind, I shouldn't be thinking so hard about this stuff! :D

123

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Silk-reeling exercises are techniques for fine-tuning alignment, balance, movement, mind/intent and Qi.. many of the silk-reeling exercises are rooted in QiGong and help cultivate Qi too..

The lineage of SREs are not nearly as important as the result.. Taiji should evolve, and.. if SREs work for others as well for others as they do for me.. well, for me i incorporate SREs for at least 15 minutes of each 1.5 hour class (usually longer)..

Be well..

[Fu-Pow]

Originally posted by yutyeesam
Is there an "energy" component to the explanation? Like, what would Yang Jwing Ming say about it?

Man, if I'm trying to calm my mind, I shouldn't be thinking so hard about this stuff! :D

123

Yes....mechanical energy!

Silk reeling exercises supposedly "dredge" up chi from the meridians but that's about all I know in that regard.

[Mo Ling]

"...practioners would practice segments of the forms as single movement training. How does Master Chen Yu's method train fundamental qualities within the forms? I guess from your discussion that you don't do some form of single movement training? "

*You guess wrong then. We train extensive single form (danshi) methods. Using common sense,, this is just a normal way to get skill in any particular movement or aspect of movement in Taijiquan.
How do we train fundemental qualities? Besides single form method, just concentrating on doing things properly and building the skill.


"Exactly. But how to clearly understand all components of more complicated movements without constant supervision and clear training method with understanding of basic jings/qualities?'

*without supervision at appropriate times, clear and proper instruction including clear knowledge of basic Jin and qualities, No student is going to learn.

"The forms are very complicated with very little repeat. Most (all?) martial arts have a method which include training fundamental aspects which define the art."

* yes and so must Chen taijiquan.


I guess the point here is that in the old days, and at the core of Chen taijiquan, what you have is the form. The form contains everything necessary for building of skill. In the old days and in some cases even now, a teacher can tell students to practice standing, practice single form movements etc, and then walk away leaving the student to suffer through it until they build some measure of foundation that they can move forward with.

Mostly these days, students will not last through such training due to lack of dedication, lack of patience, or just pure lack of understanding. Do to this situation, teachers will create things like "silk reeling" excercises or all kinds of distilled simplified methods taken from the forms for students to occupy themselves with to get an "introduction" to the method, or cultivate "basic" skills. All of this is basically because people cannot actually undertake the direct route of the step by step building of skill using the form.

This is just particular teachers' ways of extracting simple movement methods out of the actual practice that they feel will help students make some progress. I am not saying this is a bad thing but rather it reflects a certain modern situation regarding students learning gongfu, and/or a certain modern problem with some teachers' willingness or ability to impart the subtle and complicated methods of movement to students in their actual form teaching.

Again, it not necessarily anything negative, though in my own case I never learned any "silk reeling" excercises, and from within step by step form building and practice, I still learned the "basic" methods of movement.
In my case however, much of this training was (as APL said regarding supervision) every day and with the actual strict and even mean supervision of the actual inheritor of our line. I was not in some big public class where students are given all kinds of follow the leader type excercises.

Something to consider is, most of these people who are promoting such curriculi did not actually learn them from their teachers. They did not train this way so why should we? Maybe it IS useful for these modern times, but I prefer to learn the way my teacher did or as close as I can get.


M

www.taijigongfu.com

[SPJ]

Cool posts and cool website.

I studied Chen Fa Ke -> Chen Zhau Kwei teachings too.

I did exactly what you posted.

I stood in Danshi for 25 min for more while the teacher walked away or reading central China daily newspaper.

I practiced forms with direct supervision in Koushu club in Taiwan and private tutorings.

Those were the ways in the old days.

No clue for modern way either.



:cool:

[Abstract]

would it be a waste of time to purchase a video on silk reeling from a respected taiji teacher?

as a non-praticioner,(although someone did show me a yang style '10 form' the old folks practice--i remember it pretty much) would it benefit me as far as stretching & so forth? i'm always looking to add different exercises to my routine to change things up so i don't get static--or bored--:cool:

[YongChun]

Regarding training methods, when my Yang style teacher Raymond Chung first came to teach in Vancouver he attracted fairly quickly about 80 students mostly by word of mouth. The master got up in front of the room and did a few movements then sat down and told everyone to try what they saw. No explanation was given. Those with good observation skills picked up something. Those with better observation skills picked up more. The really smart people even noticed the breathing. After a month of this kind of teaching everyone quit. Raymond Chung realized that people in Vancouver are not the same as people in China. So he started again but this time explained more and worked out at least 5 minutes with every student and when there were fewer students, more. The club thus slowly grew until he taught large numbers of students in Vancouver, Seattle and Victoria.

[SPJ]

LOL

The same thing happened to me, too. The only difference was that I was not allowed to quit.

The motivation comes from the students in the old days.

I was shown a few moves first. Then I was left alone to "copy" as much as I can. It trained my observation and attention to details, memory and analytic power, etc.

In the begining, I was no where close. Overtime, I got better.

I wound ask tons of questions and bug the teacher a lot.

When I made an honest effort to immitate as much as I can, I encountered a lot of problems.

The teacher did not laugh at me.

After a while, he would show me again the moves.

This time I paid more attention to what I need to know after my initial trying effort to copy.

Eventually, the teacher would correct me and do everything slowly.

Since I was highly motivated, this teaching method worked fine with me.

I think for the most part, most people need spoon fed step by step.

Cheers.



:cool:

[twocircles]

Hi all,

Chansi means reeling, or winding, silk. The first written reference to chansi associated with taijiquan was Chen Xin's book, written from 1908 to 1919. He refers to chansi jin, silk-reeling energy. This is the way taijiquan causes the energy to wrap around and through the body.

Chansi gong is first used publicly by Chen Zhaokui in the early 1960's. He visited Hong Junsheng, who studied with Chen Zhaokui's father, Chen Fake, from 1930 to 1944. CZK asked if Hong had practiced chansi gong. Hong said he had never heard of it. This has given rise to the idea the chansi gong was recently created.

But the story goes on. HJS asked CZH if he would show him what he meant by chansi gong. When CZH showed HJS, he laughed and said that they call this jibengong. It's the basic training that you have to have before you can start learning the form.

I practice three forms of chansi gong. One from Hong Junsheng, which is still called jibengong, and one from Feng Zhiqiang. The other was passed down from Du Yutse, who learned from Chen Yanxi, Chen Fake's father in the 1920's.

It is a mystery how old these exercises are by whatever name you call them. Their existence is verifiable at least to 1930. I would think much earlier.

Feng Zhiqiang's has been talked about here a lot. I would characterize the movements as, complete movements taken from the form. The form will often not complete a circular movement, but rather just make an arc. The chansi gong allows you to complete and repeat the movement. In addition to loosening the joints, this allows the energy of the movements to be practiced.

Hong Junsheng used his training a little differently. The basic movements are called the "two circles," hence my alias. One direction is called positive and the other negative. Training is, at first stationary and later moving. These are drilled extensively, because they are literally building blocks for the form. The movements of the form are found in the two circles. If you do the form in accordance with the rules of the two circles, the application of the form will work. If you are off a little, it won't. They are precise, dictated by the mechanics of the body, and very difficult to do correctly.

We basically used the Du Yutse exercises as warmups. Adam Hsu chronicalled some similar to these on one of his Taijiquan tapes.

I guess, to summarize this, Feng seems to use chansi gong as a supplementary exercise. Hong used jibengong as a primary building block. Most of the other systems I have seen from the outside seem to use chansi gong as a supplementary exercise, although some will use it to start beginners, but it later becomes a warm up or is discarded.

Hong and Chen Fake, btw, required beginners to do jibengong and horse stances for one to two hours a day for a year or more before starting to teach them the form.

As far as videos go. You probably can't learn the movements correctly from the videos, but you can familiarize yourself with the movements for later correction. There are several versions of Feng Zhiqiang's exercises floating around. I haven't paid much attention to what's available lately, since I have a couple and know the exercises.

Some of the Hong jibengong may be available as a section of a Taijiquan DVD. If you are interested, contact me and I will check.



Richard Johnson

[Walter Joyce]

Two circles, great post.

[Abstract]

good stuff man very informative

that's kinda what i figured bout the videos, but it never hurts to ask, right?:D

what in particular should i try to purchase & by whom if I went ahead & bought one? any suggestions?

anyone?:cool:

[SPJ]

For Yang style, you may use cloudy hand (Yun Shou) and also sparrow tail (Lang Chie Wei) that has Peng Lui Jih An as stand alone practices or warming up.

Chan Si practice is ok.

But when you talk about Gong, that is a dreaded word for any student.

If you use Tai Ji as an exercise or meditation, that is all you need to know.

However, if you want to use Tai Ji as fighting methods, that is a total different story.

You have to practice your Chan Si in a pot of water, in a pot of green beans and then in a pot of sand.

You have to practice grabbing 1#, 5 # even up to 25# bean or flour bag in the air.

You have to Peng, Zhou, Kua, Kao against a heavy punching bag 250 times in a row for 1 h or so.

You have to practice with a heavy long spear to learn how to use both your hands and arms in coordination. Which hand is the real hand (Si) and which is the empty hand (Shi). How to Lui with force.

You have to tie 1#, 5# and upto 25# leads on your feet to do crosswalk (Xie Xing).

On and on.

Best of luck.



:)

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Nice training tips SPJ.. we also push the heavy Muay Thai bag out at +/- 45° and hold it there in a roll-back (An) posture.. in the same 2 hand pushing (An) posture we cradle a small 50 lb. punching bag (longways parallel to the ground) in the bend of the arms and practice weight shifts & waist control..

If you go to your local banks they will usually give you coin bags, which work nicely when filled with BBs or steel shot.. we set up about 15 feet apart and simultaneously toss 10-15 lb. bags to each other, each catching and tossing at the same time (hopefully).. this builds coordination, strength and timing..

Try doing forms with 5-10 lb. bags balanced on your head.. this will emphasize correct posture.. try walking barefoot on gravel (or begin with a couple pairs of socks), this stimulates reflexology and accupuncture points, and forces good posture or rewards you with uncomfortable results for being unbalanced..

I set up a pattern of bricks +/- 2 feet apart and standing on end.. then walk from brick to brick.. or just balance on two bricks and do silk-reeling work.. (yes, Yang Jwing-Ming's training tip, but it works..)..

Frequently, i lay on the floor to watch TV and put a 20-25 lb. bag on my abdomen to focus my breathing.. excellent results..

Just some thoughts, Be well..

[bamboo_ leaf]

(You have to) not;)

there are many ways to achive things, what is mentioned is but one of the many. Anything that adds or creates tension in the body should be avoided. Anything that tends to build the idea of using or developing your own power should be avoided until you can truly use or barrow the others power.

[SPJ]

Agreed.

Alternatively, you practice your moves (including Chan Si) slowly and against an imaginary resistance in a relaxed way.

When you are moving, you are relaxed. When you reach your end point, there will be a tension or release of Jin.

Diffcult to explain. When you relax all your ligaments, you have a better and more forciful grabs. If you do not have a good grib, all your Qin Na may not start, let alone effective. That goes for both the main grabbing hand and the other assisting hand. In short, there goes your Tai Ji Qin Na. So goes Lui.

If you do not practice against real resistance or force, how do you know (Dong Jin), input (Ting Jin) and respond to it. You may imagine all you want. If you do not know and feel the big moving force, how do you know the little one or how to fine tune or sensing.

The bags and a long spear practices teach you a lot of maneuvering, balancing, how to use your steps, your waist, your arms and your hands in a balance way. Most important of all knowing how to direct your Jin via the spear or bags.


:D

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Precisely, SPJ.. until you interact with resistance, it is just imaginings..

Holding the heavy bag at 45° allows one to evaluate and fine tune structure and alignment for the most favorable results.. Cradling a 50 lb. heavy bag in the Peng doublehanded push posture and shifting weight/stepping.. highlights many issues that can be evaluated and adjusted..

Precisely, bamboo_leaf.. simply because someone has power doen't mean they use it until the appropriate instant.. and, certainly, the value of developing listening, sticking and neutralizing skills are foundational and prerequisite to combat oriented Taiji.. but, "Anything that adds or creates tension in the body should be avoided." discounts normal activities of work and play.. again, i assert the values of balance and intention..

Too often, we labor under the belief that Taiji is all Yin.. it is not, it is the intelligent balance of Yin AND Yang..

Be well..

[scotty1]

My thoughts exactly.

We should beware of training the Yin and not the Yang, especially if the aim of the training is applicable skill.

[SPJ]

Good points.

When you practice Tai Ji, you want to be relaxed to be flexible. (Song Fo).

So that you may sense and be aware of minute changes of force and directions. You tune your body to detect and respond to small decrements or increments of force/Jin.

This way you may know how to neutralize and be flexible.

On the other hand, you do need some exercises to have your own force and skills to deliver your attack+the opponent's Jin.

Chan Si. clockwise and counterclockwise. (Sun Chan or Ni Chan)

Wrist.

Elbow.

Shoulder.

Waist./body. Roll your body and steps maneuver.

Hip. Swing kick outward or inward (cresenct)

Knee. Raise your knee and swing your leg in a horizontal circle and then a reverse circle. Chan Si leg.

However, when you release your Jin, it is still directed at 4 Zhen corners. (via Push hands exercise with partner or gadges)

If it is a vertical circle, they are upward, downward, outward, and inward.

If it is a horizontal circle, it is outward to the side, inward to the side, forward, etc.

Remember to practice your body Chan Si with punching bags or not.

Chan Si Kicks and Chan Si legs again with bags or not.

Cheers.




:)

[SPJ]

If the opponent is in the Yin, you want to be in the Yang.

If the opponent is in the Yang, you want to be in the Yin.

So positioning and timing are critical for one Tai Ji practitioner to win over the other Tai Ji'er.

When you do circular moves, you can be either Yin or Yang at any instant.

To contact and to neutralize are Yin's.

To unleash your Jin or to add to the opponent's Jin is Yang.



:cool:

[twocircles]

If the opponent is in the Yin, you want to be in the Yang.

If the opponent is in the Yang, you want to be in the Yin.



As you imply, but do not to state. The opponent is usually yin and yang at the same time. The skill is to neutralize his yang movements where he is yang and follow or attack where he is yin.

That's where the chansi jin come in.


Richard Johnson

[Kaitain(UK)]

The silk-reeling exercises I have been learning in Chen are not _all_ found in Yang style - the stances are also different and that affects the feeling of the movement (in Chen I've been taking a much wider stance with my feet slightly turned out - very alien to the Yang style I know). There are very similar movements that I have learned in CMC and Yang - of the three I've found the CMC movements the most helpful for me (although at times I look like a bad breakdancer). As someone else said, in CMC and Yang they are referred to as warm-up movements - my Yang teacher emphasises them as being as important as standing post though...

WRT Yin and Yang - If someone comes at me very hard then I often prefer to cut through them (I guess attacking the point where they could be considered Yin). I find the theoretical side of Taiji quite laboured when it gets to Yin and Yang - given that we are always Yin and Yang in our movement, it's a case of connecting and letting the correct movement come through. Sometimes I connect to the incoming Yang and attack the Yin, at other times I attack the incoming Yang and discard it and stick with my Yin. Bleurgh, it just sounds like mystical crap when it's really not. I hope you get what I mean :

a guy throws a right-hook (a Yang movement for the sake of perspicacity) - amongst the miriad of options, I can demolish the hook (a Yang connection) and connect softly with my other arm to gain control (a Yin connection), or I can stick to it with an arm (a Yin connection) and attack the body/neck/head with the other (a Yang connection).

It seems simpistic to say where he is Yin, I am Yang - like reducing boxing to "when he throws a punch, I punch him back"

Which I guess is what twocircles wrote far more concisely :)

[SPJ]

Good posts.

In Tai Ji, you think small and fine movements. You punch me. I punch you back. That is the gross response. In Tai Ji, you punch me; I pull you. You pull me; I press or punch you. (the opposite)

True. Yin and Yang happen at the same instant.

In push hands, you contact, listen and understand the direction and amplitude of the opponent's Jin. How do you stick or follow? You have to anticipate his moves. Right before his Jin changes direction, you have to sense and know. When the opponent starts to go in the other direction, you follow and add to it.

Sort of you are in contact, you sense, you know, you follow when he goes.

Yin Jin Luo Kong. (To guide and empty his force)

When you try to hit or push or pull the Tai Ji'er, you feel your force is emptied out. Because TJ'er use Chan Si to contact and merge into your force and guide it further beyond the limits of full stretch of your arms.


:)

[twocircles]

It seems simpistic to say where he is Yin, I am Yang - like reducing boxing to "when he throws a punch, I punch him back"

Well, the concept is simplistic, but it not easy to execute.

The chansi movements gives you a myiad of options for responding to any attack. Because the circle has both yin and yang, there will be an appropriate response available.


Richard Johnson

[Kaitain(UK)]

not only is it not easy to execute - it isn't always true. There should be a list of Caveats:

except when you feel it appropriate to be harder than your opponent's hard
softer than your opponent's soft

Anyway, 'tis just semantics :)

[SPJ]

It is not about harder than hard or softer than soft.

They are not semantics. It is how it works.

Never oppose and never lose contact. (Bu Dew Bu Ding).

Rule number one.

The opponent is hard (Yang). You yield (Yin).

The opponent is soft (Yin). You control (Yang).

Chan Si is soft when meets and merges into opponent's Jin. (Not opposing)

Chan Si main Jin is still going in circle. The main Jin is hard or consistent and ongoing.

Once you are in control of the opponent's forearm, you direct with your own Jin.

Chan Si may become circularly upward, downward, forward, or backward or laterally to the left or right. 4 Zhen corners. or 4 Yu crosscorners.

Your positioning of steps have to be ready first.

You may push forward, pull sideways or pull toward you. It is easy. Your position has to be there first.

Plus Chan Si to contact and do the same above. May not be so easy at first. Practice. Think of a circle. Doing a circle. But still end at the same 4 general directions.

Think of swinging a base ball bat. The baseball goes where or in what direction?


:cool:

[Kaitain(UK)]

For me it is about being harder than their hard - this is what I mean about semantics. Someone may come at me with hard force - but actually they are tense and therefore more Yin than Yang, therefore by using Yang I am in accordance with the concept. I can cut through their attack with ease because

Likewise, they may appear to be soft but with rigidity beneath it, rather than sung - therefore it could be said that they were Yang and so using Yin is appropriate.

I would hope that you would agree with this? By defining the incoming force differently, I can justifiy a different response.

I constantly strive to find the straight line in the circle (more semantics!) - I am not a complete novice :) Thank you for the baseball bat analogy though.

As I said, it is semantics - the study of the meaning of words and phrases. I was not dismissing the subject, as much as making the point that what we all understand by a phrase may well be the same, but how we explain it to one another can seem wildly variant.

We could then move on to how Yin and Yang are present in the same arm at the point of contact - soft energy that is redirecting an incoming force and sticking, whilst a hard projecting energy is attacking through to the centre...

I'm now trying to work out if the Yin and Yang energy is supplied by different legs - say with peng on the inside of a straight punch, maybe my lead leg is provding the energy to redirect, and the rear leg is providing the yang energy for the attack. I shall have to explore :)

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Intercept, stick and listen (maybe only in a fraction of a second), but necessary to sense the opponents intentions, to find their lines of resistance.. feel the speed, direction and force.. then, set your angle of deflection and apply only enough force to deflect (too much force alerts the opponent of your own intentions).. while deflecting/yielding in one direction apply yang to either, (1) enhance the deflection into the emptiness, waist turns right, right hand leads deflects, left hand pushes/adds force to the same deflecting direction.. or, (2) right hand leads while left hand slips under and applies yang to add to the resisting force of the opponent, suddenly reversing the deflecting direction (parting the wild horses mane)..

Try pushing a beach-ball under water.. somehow it maintains a Peng energy and simply finds the place you are not attending to and slips back to the surface.. it doesn't worry about hard/soft, you supply the force, it goes around it.. Peng is the air in the ball, the buoyancy of water is your frame and spirit.. Good practice to stand in waist to chest deep water and push downward on a 12-20 inch beach-ball.. the dang things are pretty good at finding your openings/weaknesses..

I suggest that we don't over-intectuallize Taiji.. my experience suggests it is much more about doing than thinking.. in practice the answers are felt, not thought.. the mind will always interfere with pure action.. hard vs. hard is fighting.. soft vs soft is .. well, that's another story.. Taiji is control, balance with a touch of finesse in your favor.. and, at the moment of opportunity, a decisive conclusion to conflict.. For myself, Taiji is like dancing with an opponent.. i simply take the lead.. rhythm and harmony and practice determine how well we dance..

Be well..

[SPJ]

Good points, K;

There is hardness in conducting gentleness. There is gentleness in conducting hardness. It is indeed very difficult to phrase.

(Kong Zhuong You Ruo. Ruo Zhuong You Kong)

Yin and Yang compliment each other. They never go alone without the other. Thus the name is Tai Ji.

(Yin Yang Xian Ji)

Good insights as always, TCB;

The round surface of the ball dissipates your linear direction of force in all directions.

Chan Si movements make your Jin go in all directions in the circle. That is why when you contact the opponent's forearm, you have a Jin going the same direction as that of the opponent, (that is how and why you merge with ease, Yin/softness); at the same time you have a Jin going circularly somewhere else (Yang).

Cool posts.


:)

[XeeBee]

Here are some animated clips of silk reeling (See the links entitled "....Chen Style Chan Si Gong"
http://balin.hit.bg/en/video_clips.html

Here are a couple of articles:
http://www.bkjassn.com/Styles/tai_chi/whj_training.html
http://www.chineseboxing.com/pages/ACT%20Articles/soloexer.html

And here are a bunch of links related to silk reeling
http://www.egreenway.com/taichichuan/silkreel.htm

[SPJ]

Cool.

Excellent links.

Cheers.

:)