you will never quite make it, boy

[Volcano Admim]

so...

excercise... and diet...

but what if
your genetics and your past
prevent you from ever in the future being in good visual shape?
do you believe this is possible / not possible / have seen it / havent seen it

i think i am one o those
i can improve
but be actually good... no
i feel like a non believer

so you scientists of da body
what you think

[Vash]

The nice guy part of me wants to say it is quite possible to get to the "visibly attractive" physique, though it may not rival that of the guy who does the "Thermo Burst Fat Dissolver" commercials.

The mean guy part of me wants to yell "suck it up, get to the gym, get a decent diet, sleep, repeat!"

I'm sleepy.

[Toby]

I'll go with Vash's mean guy. But then, I don't really believe in depression either and that's a recognised clinical condition. Then again, I also don't believe in ADHD and that's a recognised clinical condition although some practitioners reckon it's bull****.

Blaming obesity on genetics is the easy way out. I tend to hold obese people in contempt even though I try not to. I don't like bigotry - I just can't help it. I just know they don't put the work in.

[Volcano Admim]

Im not saying genetics are the only factor, but that by that factor (genetics), one will always have a belly and some fatty on other parts thta other people dont have, even if this individual is working out and dieting

How do you say you just know or dont know what they do, man, thats wrong.
What i think is, frist of all, you have no idea of how painful it is to fight an addiction (drugs, food, others).
Second of all, i propose a test than...

Lets see - This individual here bein the one to be tested
Through experimentation find the truths of science and **** like that!
Ok, here
Later ill give my stats, exercise plan, diet plan, and objectives
Then after some time i come back and go - i did this this and that
And we compare what is said to what should have been acomplished and what in truth has been.

Ever wonder why so many people try to lose weight and stuff and fail?
Do you just assume their will is weak
Or did you ever consider other factors?

[Toby]

Yeah, IMHO it's a willpower thing. You talk about addiction - I'm addicted to crap food too. I was also once fairly addicted to various drugs. My main weakness used to be potato chips, hot or cold. It wasn't unusual for me to sit down and eat a 250g packet of them. I knew it was bad, but I loved those things. I've been on a diet for a few months now. I haven't really planned it as such, just changed a few things. I've lost over 10kg from what I was at last Christmas. I'm getting down towards what I was towards the end of my teens, many years ago. I still love carbohydrates, but I hardly ever eat chips anymore and if so just one handful. I don't eat any fast food anymore except maybe once a month restaurant quality food (Chinese, Japanese, whatever). But no Burger King etc. It's not because I don't want to - I do. I force myself not to. But then I've always had a strong will. I can make myself do pretty much anything.

Good luck with it Xebby! I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

[HiddenShadow]

for me, about 8 months ago, I cut out alcohol and BEER (yes, thats a tough one), all desserts, and just about all junk food, and havent set foot in a McDonalds or buger king in years. Its hard now and then, cookies and things are very tasty, but you gotta be strong and resist them. Beer had to be the hardest thing ever to give up, but it was doing the most damage so it had to go. Ever since then, I actually feel alot better about myself and have lost 25-30 pounds.

[Volcano Admim]

Thanx, Toby

I myself lost almost 25kg (55 pounds) before
but it was never enough, you know
and im not paranoid about
i am saying, with technical skills of my eyes, it aint good enough
and progress was being ridiculously slow at a certain point
i wonder, should it take a whole 1 year of privating myself from thing that "the normal people" dont have to?
or should it take 10 years?
or should it take my whole lifetime?
or will it never quite really happen?

Anyways, im getting bak into diet and exercise since sunday i think it was... i did
i dont think its ever easy, cos it just aint but anyway
guess its my last try then

Ill have stats and stuff later on next week when i goto a gym

[Toby]

The human body's just a machine really. You put stuff in, you burn energy, you get stuff out. Two ways to lose weight - put less in or burn more. The third sometimes goes by scary names like gastroenteritis, dysentry, Bali belly, Delhi belly, Chinese ballerina's tea, etc :eek:, but that's hardly sustainable and not healthy. You'll have to do the research as to the healthiest ways to burn more. You can exercise or take things that raise metabolism for example. You can also tweak the eat less part by changing constituent ratios of the three macronutrients or just plain eating less. If you're plateauing you can sometimes get things started again by shocking your body in various ways.

It's not easy Xebs, but it's definitely possible.

[Ford Prefect]

Definately possible. You can do anything with the correct approach and discipline to maintain that approach until your goals are reached.

[stubbs]

does anyone here find that as they become more finely tuned they become more sensitive to 'bad' stuff? i drank a fair bit last friday - first time i've had any alcohol in ages and im still feeling a little crappy now! whereas a few years ago i was able to go to the pub and drink double what i drank on friday and feel fine the day after....lol, that makes me sound older than i am - im 19 now and used to be a regular at the local pub when i was about 15 thanks to the english drinking culture. i've kinda broken away from it now thankfully
________
Pornstars Charley Chase (http://www.****tube.com/categories/854/charley-chase/videos/1)

[Meat Shake]

Nah xebs, I think that just about anyone can get into pretty **** good shape with enough hard work. Ive been busting my ass for the past year for the exact opposite reason you are - Im trying to bulk up. Its hard though. I spend about 15 hours a week in the gym, and another 20 training kung fu outside the gym...
I know a mile looks like a lot when you're only moving in inches, but you'll get there. Just keep working at it.

[Vash]

Xebs Said:

"Ever wonder why so many people try to lose weight and stuff and fail?"

No, no I don't. I look at habits and lifestyle. Most of the aforementioned people look for the magic bullet. Thing of it is, you can't kill this beast like that.

Don't worry, Xebs, I'm CERTAIN you can achieve your goals. Yes, it's hard as hell, you have to give up some things you like (such as copious amounts of alcohol, food, et al, and you have to bench, squat, deadlift, and clean and press your way there, but you can do it . . . ALL NIGHT LONG!!!1

Looking forward to your stats, diet, workout regimen, etc. Please also post your goals: short term, med. term, and long term. I would be more than willing to help you, as I'm sure those more knowledgeable than myself on this board will be.

peace and good training

[FooFighter]

I am a firm believer in self determinism which you have the "free will" and intelligence to make decisions about your life independently of any influences. Moreover I find that psychological
paradigms of genetic or environmental determinism does not promote authentic responsiblity, imagination, creativity, self awareness, moral conscious, and most importantly FREE WILL. In the animal kingdom these mental attributes is what makes us human being unique among the animals and on the top of the food chain. As martial artists, we should ideally believe in self determinism. It a matter of choice what paradigm you decide to take and work with in the end. I think many famous masters of fighting arts have show us the authentic application of self determinism, especially Bruce Lee. Mind you, genetics and enviroments does matter and does have real effects, but let me put it this way, there were no fat jews in the Nazis camps. I believe most people are the way there are due to choice or the lack of choice. You can decide to be a victim of genetics or enviroment. Or you can be a true human being and fight the good fight and decide to be a hero in your own life. I personally would like to believe in myself and what human diginity I have inside my being regardless of my genetic or social limitations.

ALL OF US ARE DRAGONS! JUST BE MAN ENOUGH TO CHOOSE IT, BELIEVE IT, AND BE IT!

[HiddenShadow]

Originally posted by stubbs
does anyone here find that as they become more finely tuned they become more sensitive to 'bad' stuff? i drank a fair bit last friday - first time i've had any alcohol in ages and im still feeling a little crappy now! whereas a few years ago i was able to go to the pub and drink double what i drank on friday and feel fine the day after....lol, that makes me sound older than i am - im 19 now and used to be a regular at the local pub when i was about 15 thanks to the english drinking culture. i've kinda broken away from it now thankfully



I found that out a few months back, I had a couple beers with some friends and after only a few, I was pretty trashed. And I felt "slowed down" for the entire next day or 2, that was the last drink for me. I also used to be able to drink 2-3 times that amount and have only a mild hangover for a couple hours the next day, then be ready to start drinking again. This was back when I would drink almost everyday. Not something Im particularly proud of, but Ive moved on.

[morbicid]

i agree with foofighter. obesity is a rich man's problem. you don't hear people who work long and hard just to eat complain that they can't control their weight/ eating. and look at the hungry people in third world countries. their genetics may have enabled them to be fat and flabby, but at the moment you can see their rib cage through their skin just the same

i recently tried to give someone tips on how to lose weight. she was asking about all kind of diet pills and excercises.... which can help.... but she simply couldn't comprehend the idea of EATING LESS and changing her diet. She looked at me like "HOW DARE you even consider telling me how to eat". Not that I'm an expert.... but I've seen how she eats ( way too much ). I guess you can't help someone if they refuse to help themselves.

[Volcano Admim]

First, thnx for all encouragements

As for the resistance to "bad stuff" going down, it in fact happened to me. My resistance to alcohol dropped a lot indeed.

As for poor people / rich people obesity
Yes, there is obesity on poor people
Brazil is third world and the number of obese is growing faster than the economics
My grandma for example, who is retired and dont have money at all... have always been fat, from youth to today, all the time.
And there are other examples.

[morbicid]

hmmm... maybe i stand corrected. your comment about alcohol reminds me that beer and other alcoholic beverages have been found to be very fattening, and also can make a person look bloated.

and even poor people can afford beer....... heck even BUMS can :)

but poor people being fat doesn't negate my point (that i was trying to make) that most people are responsible for their own obesity. although i do take pity on those with disabilities who couldn't work out even if they wanted to . . . people should think about that when they're sittin on their couch getting fatter, wondering why, when they're perfectly able to walk into a gym and burn some calories

[rubthebuddha]

beer isn't any more fattening than strawberries. the problem is that so many who drink beer regularly spend more time SHOPPING for beer than they do burning it off. the unused sugars in the beer get converted to fat as the person continues to sit on the couch. eventually, they wind up a huge fatass like ironfist and their ability to exercise diminishes with each passing, fattening day.

[Meat Shake]

I dunno man... Theres 150 calories in a budweiser... Thats an assload.

Xebs - if you dont want to feel fat anymore, just move to fat antonio, Texas or N'awlins, Lisiana.

[fa_jing]

Sometimes people in third world countries are fat because all they can afford to eat some days is starchy legumes such as plantain, yucca, etc. Other times they are fat because they can afford to eat fried pork products and do so. Just what I've seen.

But on the whole, they are alot skinnier than they are here.

[Volcano Admim]

yo buddha friend, so the idea that alcohool drinks make peoples belly look fatter due to the gases is a myth? Its just the calories then?

fa_jing
also they dont afford to eat several times a time
some eat just 2 times a day
some will eat even just ONE time a day

When i was a kid until... i mean... it was only at the age of like 18 that i found out it was best to eat more times a day, i used to eat only 3 times a day and thought thats how it was done anyway. A lot of people in fact will eat 3 times a day, or 4 max.
Since i been doin the stuff i always eat 5 or 6 times.

Hey Meat,
its not a bad idea :D

[morbicid]

good point... the less frequently you eat, the more your body tries to hold on to what it can get - and store more fat. or so i'm told. it slows your matabolism

[rubthebuddha]

xebby -- i've never heard the "gas" story, so i'll chalk it up as bull****. people that drink a lot look heavier because they usually are heavier. six beers x 150 calories each = 900 calories. do that twice per week, and that's an extra pound of worthless calories every other week. do that over the course of a year and it's 26 pounds. do it for 8 years and you'll wind up here. (http://www.fatchicksinpartyhats.com)

[Tak]

Sweet, where can I order my party hat?!

I lost about 50 lbs in the last year or so (235->185), most of it due to exercise (kung fu). Although I was able to curb a lot of my junk calories with very slight modifications to my diet. Quit drinking soda, there's ~200 empty calories per soda. (And there's no way in hell I'm drinking diet - I don't know about cancer, but something that tastes that nasty has to give you something...) I started avoiding so-called "snack foods" - if I need something to eat, I eat something real/filling. Other than that, I pretty much eat the way I used to - lots of meat, potatoes, veggies, cheese, eggs, pasta, ...

But I'm not a fitness/nutrition guru, I'm just some guy who modified his lifestyle a little and dropped a few pounds.

[rubthebuddha]

a few pounds? holy ass, batman, 50 lbs. is half of blooming lotus! :eek:

[Volcano Admim]

lol man dude :D

[Tak]

Great, now to lose the other half... :p

It doesn't seem like that much, especially since it was over 12 months or so. Was nice to hear someone call me "skinny" again the other day though.

[Hau Tien]

I, too, managed to lose a bunch of weight over the last year, with the majority of the loss coming in the last 6 months. I went from 246lbs and about 30+% of bodyfat to 179lbs and 13% bodyfat as of this morning. I'm not quite done yet, either.

How? Modification in diet and exercise. Smaller portions more often. No junk food... NO sugared soda. I do, however, drink diet (My favorite being Diet Dr.Pepper) soda.

I figure I'll get to about 10% bodyfat and see how happy I am there. If I want to lose a little more, it seems to be simple enough for me, now that I've figured out how to control my appetite.

Oh... a word of advice... it's easy to go overboard with dieting. I noticed for a few days I was REALLY irritable... like... RAGE. I did some calculations and realized I was only eating about 800-900 calories a day... NOT enough to be working out 3 hours a day :P I've bumped myself to 1200 calories (at the VERY least).

Soon I'm likely going to start to put more muscle mass on, so I'll have to start working the weights harder and eating much more.

In any case, to answer the original poster, yes, I think your goals would be attainable, but you may have to figure your own way to do it. Once I found the ways that worked for me... well... the pounds and fat almost literally dropped off.

Good luck, man!