Duo Gang

[ursa major]

I am looking for information the 7 Star form known as Duo Gang or Concealing The Hard.

When did it arrive and where -- how old is it?

Who wrote it?

What style within a style?

thx in advance,
UM.

[MantisifuFW]

Ursa Major,

Dou Gang, avoiding hardness, also goes by the name Cuo Gang, filing steel on the mainland.

As far as I can tell (and I am open to correction) the form comes from Li Sanjian also know as Li Kuaishou (aka "fast hands" Li, in the early 1800s).

There is considerable variance among branches but if you know Dou Gang you recongnize it everywhere.

Hope it helps,

Steve Cottrell

[ursa major]

MantisifuFW,

Thx for your comments.

Is there much known about "Li Sanjian also know as Li Kuaishou" ?

For example where did he train?

Do we know what influenced him?

Who were his teachers?

Was this the only form he authored?

thx in advance,
UM.

[German Bai Lung]

It is said, that Li San Jian was Student of Shen Xiao Dao Ren.

For Linages you can always look here: http://www.geocities.com/mantiscave/

As far as I know he also created the Bung Bo Kuen.

[MantisifuFW]

Li Kuaishou was a caravan guard who was rescued from an ambush by Sheng Xiao Daoren, according to legend. Sheng Xiao taught him Tanglang. He learned Tanglang at a Daoist temple in that area who got it from Wang Lang nearly 100 years before. There is no information on what happened to the system in that century at the temple.

Li taught Wang Yongsheng who probablly was the one who gave the style its name.

That is about all I have on it.

Steve Cottrell

[Laviathan]

Originally posted by ursa major
I am looking for information the 7 Star form known as Duo Gang or Concealing The Hard.

What style within a style?

According to the manuscript "Three Styles derived from the Same Source & the Issue of the Five Styles" written by the late HK Northern Praying Mantis master Wong Hon-Fun, the HK curriculum of Luo Guangyu's Mantis system consists of forms derived from the following 5 styles:

1. Long Fist
2. Fanche
3. Seven Star
4. Plum Flower
5. Guangban

The Duo Gang (evading hardness) Form was said to belong to the Seven Star style.

The above-mentioned information can be found in "A Discourse on the History of Praying Mantis Boxing in China for the last one hundred years" by Wong Hon-Chiu (student of Master Wong Hon-Fun)

[Skarbromantis]

Where can you get this book?

[MantisifuFW]

S,

If you can't find it anywhere else, Mantis Quarterly is setting up a distributorship with the company in Hong Kong that prints the book. We will have it available online around November.

It is the best and most objective resource aside from WHF's notes that I have seen. (It is, however nearly all in Chinese).

Steve Cottrell

[Oso]

(It is, however nearly all in Chinese).

ok, someone needs to start a non-profit to accept donations to make it worthwhile for these books to be translated.

Sifu C, is MQ set up as a NP? can't remember and don't have the info here at work.

[MantisifuFW]

Oso,

No MQ is not a Not for Profit. However, even if it were, translating any existing work such as this one, newly publshed and such, will require getting permission from the publisher and rights holder which would be probablly quite expensive even before translation work begins.

I have pretty much finished the first in a series of books to teach reading Quan Pu, (Kuen Po in Cantonese), and the language of WHF's books. It too will go on sale at the MQ website around the first of the year if all goes well.

Wong's book devotes itself to LKY's history the Qingwu and development of curriculum then moves to WHF's work then gives a brief biography of WHF as well as some nice appendicies on iron palm, hand training and such. As far as I can tell it is a well researched and objective recounting of the development of LKY Mantis. For those who practice HK Tanglang it is the best scholarly reference available today. Hence my efforts to get it for MQ to offer.

I hope to continue to write books to teach exclusively the reading of Martial Chinese from Quanpu to movement discourse to technical and theoritical material. Give a man a fish vs teach a man to fish as it were...

In the books we will use actual boxing manuals available to practitioners and eventually, with permission, exerpts from books such as this one by Wong.

IN the meantime we will continue to search out books of this kind of quality to offer on our website. Got a few others in my sights right now...

Steve Cottrell

[mantis108]

I have the great pleasure of a sneak preview of Sifu Cottrell's first book. Frankly, I am amazed with his proficiency of Chinese. This book is loaded with info. mainly from the HK Seven Star curriculum. I can also see how much care and details have been put into this book by Sifu Cottrell. The layout is great and clearly instructional. It is very professionally organized. It has also lot of fun exercises aimed to challenge the mind of the reader. I think there is an audio CD to go with it which I didn't have the oppotunity to review. But as far as the book is concern, I am very confident that this is a great product for novice Mantis stylists to get themselves ready for reading and unsing Chinese Quanpus.

On a personal note, I envy that Hk 7 star line has some really hard working, generous and devouted practitioners since WHF's time. They have put promoting their art to a different level altogether. Now that the future generations worldwide could enjoy this planted seed. I believe that Sifu Cottrell is a fine example of that in modern times. Personally, I believe his work (articles, MQ, this series of books, etc..) are pretty under appreciated. I think his effort really is something for few generations to celebrate. Thank you, Sifu Cottrell for forging ahead a bright future for our community.

Sincerely,

Robert Hui (Mantis108)

[Oso]

hmmm, I wonder what those costs would really be. Do you not think that the asian publishers would welcome the expanded audience? Once translated there are a ton of small publishing houses that could be used here in the states to publish the english versions...as I'm sure you're well aware of.

I just know that I'd pay a lot to have these available in english.
Given that your average martial tome at B&N is between 15-20 dollars I'd gladly pay $100 or even more for something like that in english.

just thinking out loud again.....I'll certainly be in line for your book as well as the chinese version of the other.

[ursa major]

MantisifuFW, GBL, and Laviathan,

Thank-you all for your comments I am most appreciative.

Best regards,
UM.

[Laviathan]

You're welcome.

I just happen to have the book, so it was no biggy... :)

[MantisifuFW]

Ursa Major,

Happy to help. My knowledge is mostly of HK Tanglang though I have a little in the 7* and Meihua areas so you asked one of the few questions that I have some information on.

Mantis 108,

Thank you for your gracious comments online and the critique you offered off. Also thank you for your generous sharing of your time and expertise in making this work as accurate as possible. I really believe that it is far better to read WHF's work and commentary in Chinese than it is to read someone else's translation, however, that said I both respect and appreciate those who go to the time and effort to translate difficult material for others.

My best regards,

Steve Cottrell

[Skarbromantis]

If you can't find it anywhere else, Mantis Quarterly is setting up a distributorship with the company in Hong Kong that prints the book. We will have it available online around November.


Sweet, I would like to get a copy, for myself, and one for Sifu Chow, not sure if he has one, how old/new is the book?

When was it first published?

Skard

[MantisifuFW]

Master Wong's book was published in 2000. To meet the deadline he had to be content with only a Chinese version.

It is filled with copies of curriculum material and how LKY and WHF both developed their approach.

The book is not being distributed by the publisher to a great degree, especially here in the West. It has not been available online anywhere that I have searched, else I would have made an announcement earlier. So I found the publisher, established distribution rights and as soon as the little devils come in, make them available to as many as want them.

I personally believe that this book is the answer for a lot of misinformation that has been around for years about the curriculum of LKY.

I am certain they will be online available by November at Mantisquarterly.com. If I get my hands on them earlier, I will announce it here first.

Please greet Sifu Chow for me.

Steve Cottrell