Cheating, Women and you.

[Royal Dragon]

Hello,
I have been really opening my eyes and looking around lately. what I'm seeing is not making me have much confidence in the world. It seems that I am the one, only and singularly commited person I know that has NEVER, ever, ever cheated on anyone I have been with (Came close once, and ENDED that freindship, brutally, to prevent it).

It seems noone likes to get "Cheated on", but most don't see anything wrong with doing it from time to time themselves, especially if it's just an occasional one night fling and not an on going thing.

I know of a girl who is married, and has kids with her husband. She claims to love him to death, and the relationship seems solid enough, but when she goes out with the girls, and has too much to drink she's slobbering all over whatever hot guy she is attracted to at the moment. Her husband knows nothing of this, and it is not an everytime thing. It happens sporaticallly if the alcohol is flowing, and the oppertunity is right, usually when shes out on a "Girs's night out" kind of thing.

I have been thinking of what it must be like to be her husband. For me, I'd freakout if my true love behaved like this when I wasn't around. I EXPECT that if a woman is my "One and Only" wile in my arms, that she is also my "One and Only" every other time, even when there is no way she could ever be caught.

Am I "out of line" thinking like this in this day and age?? Is playfull "Toying" with the opposite sex Ok so long as your other half never knows? If you can passionately hug and kiss a guy or girl, just because your drunk, out away from your mate and not able to get caught, can't it also go much much further??

If you were the husband of this girl, how would you feel if you found out she's like this? Would you freak out, or is it now socially acceptable to occasionally flirt, and toy around with whomever meets your fancy so long as you don't get caught because you are out late with the guys (or in this case the girls) and "Having a good time??"

Is it Innocent fun? Or serious betrail of trust?

What's every one's thoughts on this?

What would YOU do, or feel if your wife, or exclusive mate was behaiving like this?

If you suspected, but weren't sure, how would you handle it?

[IronFist]

Cheating is the new monogomy.

[Merryprankster]

I think you're just bitter.

[Royal Dragon]

Cheating is the new monogomy.

Reply]
So it's acceptable to do this, so long as you go home to your mate at night?

[YinYangDagger]

Funny you should mention this, of all days, today...

I work at a large company here in SA. I'm a mid-level manager, which basically means I don't have my own secretary/site assistant like the manager above me does. Anyway, the secretary of my manager began flirting a little in emails today, and I flirted back.

Next thing I know I'm in a conference room at 5:15 (most everyone gone) getting an awesome bj. Kudos to her, that's for sure. I just bring this up because she IS married, and by 5:30 she was in her car driving home to her hubby (like I said, d@mn good).

I see it as fringe benefits of Corporate America, since I'm salaried and work like 60-70 hours per week.

P.S. If kung lek is reading this, I know you brought this up on another thread - women definitely like power over money/looks :D

[thresh]

Sounds like this chick is a skank. And today, there's terminal diseases and sh1t that are passed on in this way.. Imagine your wife of many years coming home and telling you to get a blood test because she's got aids or something..

I had a girlfriend who would flirt along the same lines as that and one day I saw it happen. Many beers and sleepless nights for me later, I dumped her.. I never told her why I dumped her. Figured she'd be able to figure out why all on her own.

[joedoe]

I think it really is up to the couple. Some people have open relationships and are cool with their partner 'being' with other people. Personally, I am pretty old-fashioned on this and would rather my wife stayed faithful - if she would rather be with someone else I would prefer that she ended it with me first.

[Vash]

I've never cheated. Never thought about it.

Have been cheated on. Repeatedly. Wished to crush vile man who touched my woman in all the places I didn't.

Found that God and pr0n are good healers.

Cheating = horrible.

[Royal Dragon]

Funny you should mention this, of all days, today...

I work at a large company here in SA. I'm a mid-level manager, which basically means I don't have my own secretary/site assistant like the manager above me does. Anyway, the secretary of my manager began flirting a little in emails today, and I flirted back.

Next thing I know I'm in a conference room at 5:15 (most everyone gone) getting an awesome bj. Kudos to her, that's for sure.

Reply]
Kudos for having good BJ skills, or violating her husbands trust?

>I just bring this up because she IS married, and by 5:30 she was in her car driving home to her hubby (like I said, d@mn good).

Reply]
If you were her Hubby, how would it feel knowing she does stuff like this?

>>I see it as fringe benefits of Corporate America, since I'm salaried and work like 60-70 hours per week.

Reply]
But what if you were thehusband.

Would it be fair to call her a little *****?

If it was me, I'd freak out. Does the fact that I whole heartedly belive in the "Old Fashioned" Monogimous relationship mean I'm too posessive in modern times??

I've been asking alot of people about their thoughts on this subject reacently, and the only girl who agree's with me is commited to her son's Father, for good or bad, depiste things being rough between them often (think I blew it letting her go all those years ago). The rest however seem to think it's OK if THEY don't get caught, but not if thier hubb's do it.

When did Cheating becme acceptable? I'm I missing out because I refuse to do something I could never stand if my mate were to do?

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by IronFist
Cheating is the new monogomy.


and this one of the reasons why I am so happily single...........again..............

[David Jamieson]

Guys are the hopeless romantics not girls.

get that into ya.

People do these things, some people are up front with their actions and others are not.

Some people cheat, others swing and some people think they're being cheated on, but in reality, they never had nothing going on in the first place.

Marriages are ending in Divorce at a higher rate than ever before. It doesn't mean much these days to a lot of people. There isn't a lot of depth in a lot of marriages.

Of course all the hype about the big day on tv and magazines doesn't help because what comes after is teh marriage. The wedding is just the one day.

And so, the emotional roller coaster will never be short of riders.

There's commitment, then there's commitment. Besides, many marriages survive an affair. Usually there is alcohol involved, boredom, etc etc. People get tired of the same old same old and aren't clever enough to spice up the marriage in some way to keep it fresh. They would rather wallow in the muck and myre of a deteriorating friendship.

A lot of people have no idea how to end a bad relationship, or are insecure and can't because of personal weakness or are ok with being cuckholded.

Anyway, is that almost all the opinions? lol

Final word, it's happened before, it will happen again, ain't nothing new about it.

cheers

p.s It's 10:00 pm, do you know where your spouse is?

[Royal Dragon]

BL,
Yeah I understand how you feel. I did the single thing for quite a wile (7 months or so after Terri moved out). Then I started doing this internet dateing thing and met someone. She's totally wrong for me (as in we are from opposite sides of the tracks, and not that she is bad for me), but it seems to be working anyway, so I'm just going with it for now.

I think I like being in a relationship more than being single, BUT being on my own was very good for me. I really needed it. I just hope the new girl does not someday betray my trust and I find myself on my own again. That seems to be the "in" thing now'a days.

[mickey]

Congradulations Royal Dragon,

You have arrived at that Karmic state where you see how actions affect others, even those that you may never know.

mickey

[Vash]

pr0n, the safest sex of all :) :eek: :o :( ;) :p :D

[Volcano Admim]

Royal,
i have never cheated on any woman :D

[IronFist]

Originally posted by Royal Dragon
Cheating is the new monogomy.

Reply]
So it's acceptable to do this, so long as you go home to your mate at night?

Dude I didn't say I agree with it, I'm just saying this seems to be the direction in which society is heading.

[Volcano Admim]

I think that if we look deep into history of cheating
I dont think cheating is a new risin thing at all
Hoes houses have always been highly frequented by married guys
People are just more open to do it straight up in da face this days i imagine

[Royal Dragon]

IronFist,
I got ya, I wsa just asking what society accepts as the norm, nt your personal belifes.

If it was me, I couldn't handle having a woman that is all mine wile in my arms, but all hers when she is not.

If she is all mine in my arms, I want her to be all mine whe we are apart too, as in NO ONE ELSE is allowed to touch.

Honestly, I'm not sure I would enter into a living arangement today without having her followed on her "Girls night" out for awile first, just to see where her heart truely is when I'm not around.

[IronFist]

I realize that cheating is cheating, but cheating with a prostitute is a little different from cheating with a friend or acquaintance or whatever.

[YinYangDagger]

RD - I understand where you're coming from bro, I've been married (twice) in the past.

Would I like it if I were the husband? Of course not - I've been there from one of the marriages.

BUT, this was a hot Mexican babe, around 26 years old, very intelligent, nicely dressed, etc., that apparently is not getting enough attention at home. Not my fault, but if she wants to give out bj's to me, who am I to turn her down? I'd be willing to bet that most of you wouldn't...PLUS, if I play my cards right, she IS my boss's secretary, she may even put in a few good words for me and help move me along the corporate ladder...

[Lowlynobody]

There isn't a lot of depth in a lot of marriages.

There isn't a lot of depth in a lot of people, either. Take YinYangDagger for example.

Does anyone even know what the golden rule is these days?

[David Jamieson]

I realize that cheating is cheating, but cheating with a prostitute is a little different from cheating with a friend or acquaintance or whatever.

And it's different if a woman uses a gigolo too. right?

lol. :p

Royal, women are not possessions. those feelings are something in you, you don't own the girl and if she loves you, she will not be attracted to someone else.

Anyway, hate to say it dude, but that emotion, too strong is a weakness of your own desire and insecurity.

Cheating is no mystery. The emotional side is more of a mystery.

What drives people to murder? To cheat? To not be able to end a bad relationship or to have an addictive personality.

If your significant other, with whom you share an unconditional positive regard cheats on you, or you cheat on them, then one of you is living a lie or both of you are living a lie.

well...Cheers. :D

[Toby]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
and this one of the reasons why I am so happily single...........again.............. So you're not engaged any more? Did you cheat or did he? Short engagement ...

Cheating suxors. If my wife cheated on me with someone, they'd better run far and fast if I find out. So should she.

I'd never do it and I expect the same respect. But yeah, I have many friends who do and don't have a problem with it. One guy once said he'd never had a girlfriend he hadn't cheated on. Another had a hot girlfriend waiting for him in a hotel room at a party and got it on with a fat scrubber out in the hotel gardens. Lost the best thing that ever happened to him. The same guy got out of bed with his current girlfriend in the middle of the night, "borrowed" his girlfriend's dad's car and drove to the knocker shop. He reckons he can't get it off unless he's paying for it or risking getting caught. Regularly visits the knockers. I fail to understand that point of view. Also Iron, IMO paying or getting it for free are equally as bad in terms of cheating. Only difference is there's less chance of getting caught if you pay for it.

[YinYangDagger]

Excuse me Lowlynobody for not giving a flying rat's @ss fu(k of what you think about me. The truth hurts most, you accept it or go crying to mama. Makes no dif to me.

[Volcano Admim]

people lets calm down ok
no reason to fight ok


besides that, yall can rest safe i didnt touch any o yall wives

[CaptinPickAxe]

I've never cheated on any of my girlfriends...but I have made girls cheat on their boyfriends many of times...

Color me a Homewreaker.

[Becca]

Originally posted by IronFist
I realize that cheating is cheating, but cheating with a prostitute is a little different from cheating with a friend or acquaintance or whatever.
HOW!?!? Try having a little somethin' extra brought home. Then have your spouce try to tell you you must have picked it up from a toilette at work. To the best of my knowledge, clap can't be passed on that way!:mad: It also seems to me that you can get that "little somethin' extra" from anyone who has it, but only if you're having an inapropriate relationship.

As far as my oppinion giving, I say "do unto others as you would have them do unto you." And if you just can't controll your cheating, go see a shrink.

[blooming lotus]

fristly on Kls' cooment that guys are generally the moosh bags or sentimalists, I couldn't agree more. I think alot of this is because women are stereotypically weak , frail and emotionally vunerable.so men in relationships or persuit thereof, tend to overcompensate with exagerated emotions of their own, coupled with the fact that they are often socially deprived of right to emotional expression ..........( interesting side note here on cultural difference : china is exactly opposite, men being the obviously more vulnerable species..perhaps because of such vicious history of wars , together with extreme poverty and often doing it alone without facility or rescorce, etc and womens' conditioning to accept emotional tradgedy and hardships)





Originally posted by Royal Dragon
BL,
Yeah I understand how you feel. I did the single thing for quite a wile (7 months or so after Terri moved out). Then I started doing this internet dateing thing and met someone.


interesting ..........good luck with it.........out of curiousity, how many people here have used dating services before ( and willing to admit it ) and what were your results???


Toby: we actually split over the miscarraige
................ and no-one cheated



on cheating though, I doubt I would ever blame or take revenge on the person my partner cheated on for the fact, that A. my relationship is with my partner and the other person has no place of personal acknowledgement, and B. if they're cheating, who wants them around anyway??? I don't do make-believe myself and if you cheated it just wasn't real anyway and so fulfilled singledom is a great alternative to a sh*tty fanatasy and time-wasting.......lifes to short to waste on someone I don't want to be with..................

on prostitutes, I see your point Iron, but to say that is to disregard the complete emotional fullfilment a healthy relationship should give you............and to replace it with desire for sex.........hot sex is hot sex, but in a relationship, sex is about intimacy no???

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Volcano Admim
Royal,
i have never cheated on any woman :D

The fact that you have never had a woman made this quite hillarious - I almost fell outta my chair.

[SevenStar]

it's like this. Society's acceptance of things that were once considered sacred are going to he11 in a handbasket - fast. That's just how it is. I get flirted with on a daily basis at work, by women who know I am married, as well as by those who don't. I've gotten offers to have sex with women who know full well that I am married. What's their reasoning? "He's married, not me, so I'm not cheating. If he wants to cheat on his wife, then that's fine." Since she's not the one cheating, she's okay with it. I've asked a few women about this, and they all gave me a similar answer - look at what yin yang dagger said - she was hot and she wanted him, even thought she was married. No skin off YYD's teeth. He wasn't the one cheating.

If I did cheat and my wife found out, would she be ****ed? sure she would. But in this day and age, many people either don't think or don't care about the consequences of such things.... at least, not until they are caught.

Today, for many people, sex is just that - sex. nothing sacred or special about it, just a craving that has to be fulfilled. If things are not going well in your relationship, sex life will probably decline. If it does, when it's time for that need to be fulfilled, some people will look elsewhere.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by IronFist
Cheating is the new monogomy.

Bingo.

Being single for many people is fun - I loved it. Some people get married without being ready to give that up. What better thing to do than have your cake and eat it too, right?

[CFT]

Originally posted by SevenStar
- look at what yin yang dagger said - she was hot and she wanted him, even thought she was married. No skin off YYD's teeth. He wasn't the one cheating.Well, I'm going to descend into the gutter with this one ...

No skin off YYD's teeth maybe, but depending on how good her technique was, I'd wager there might have been some skin off another appendage ... ;)

[Royal Dragon]

Not my fault, but if she wants to give out bj's to me, who am I to turn her down?

Reply]
If it was me, I would defenetly turn her down. You can go on one of these internet dateing services, and find 50 pages of avaliable women within 5-10 miles of your home. Most are very attractive. There is no need to go get it from a married woman.

BL, the internet dateing thing actually works out good, especially for me as I really don't have a whole heck of alot of time. I exchanged e-mails with a number of women for awile, and chickened out on actually meeting them for a long time. I finnally decided I was comfortable with meeting the woman I'm with now, and we just hit it off really well right away, despite obviously comming from vastly different worlds.

[Water Dragon]

Gian, anyone will cheat if they are put into the right situation.

What you need to do is establish a plan so that neither one of you are ever put into those situations. To do that, you both need to admit that you would cheat if the circumstance were right and that you don't want that to happen.

Most relationships fall apart due to communication issues. We tend to believe that people do/should behave as we do. Or they don't want to talk about certain things because it 'spoils the romance.'

Talk, find out what is important to the other person, and give them that. They should do the same for you. If you can find out what will make the other person happy and do it, and the do the same, then you're both happy. But it takes being able to put the other person above you. You need to voluntarily give up you individualism in the hopes of achieving something great, and that's what ****s up most people.

Also, you should never totally 'trust' anyone. If you are suspicious of something, you have the right to question it. I have made my wife oipen her e-mail account for me on a moments notice before, and she has done the same to me. It's no big deal. We both have peace of mind.

I'm still calling out YYD as a punk and a liar.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Too many people confuse love and sex.. they are separate issues.. way too many more people only know how to love "conditionally", that love is conditional on certain qualifications.. fidelity, looks, religion, sex, intellect, security, etc.. it is not easy to let the ego go and simply Love someone, regardless of their fitting your "wish-list"..

True love.. simply is.. it makes no demands..

People are just people, not perfect models of everyone's ideals.. more love is destroyed by ego than infidelity.. forgiveness is way more important than a bruised ego.. true love doesn't pass judgement, it gives with no expectation in return.. the expectations turn it into a game, a negotiation.. if my lover strays and returns at least she returned (a medical check-up might be in order).. and if she strays and keeps on going, true love is interested in her happiness and supports her choices.. i know quite a few people who are capable of loving more than one person, they are quite happy in relationships with more than 2 people..

Nature insured survival of our species by instilling a powerful sexual drive, and.. if you are honest with yourself, we are acting contrary to nature by confining relationships to a single partner.. that is a social contrivance.. it was the response of the dominated males when the alpha-male hoarded all the desirable females, they united, formed a social group (majority rules and controlled the alpha male) and regulated distribution of females..

People change. is there any wisdom in coercing someone, whose ideals have changed, into remaining in a relationship? Hardly! Resentment and frustration will eventually sour into a worse situation than simply honoring a person's right to be "who they are". Marriage is a contract of obligations, true love exists independent of such contrived notions..

Love deeply, fully, unconditionally.. and respect your mate's right to be "who they are".. if they choose to move on, okay.. if they choose to stray and return, okay.. notice that things are okay, no fighting, no bitterness, no games.. and, if things are simply unacceptable to you, move on.. but, do it with respect and compassion, not hate and bitterness.. remember, at some point there was Love shared....

Be well..

[Ray Pina]

TaiChiBob said it perfectly. Live and love and let live. Nobody wants to be confined in body, mind or spirt. It only builds resentment. Be open and honest and see where things go.

As for men and cheating, Chris Rock said it best: a guy is only as faithful as his options.

[Tak]

I've never cheated on anyone.

Anything a person will do while drunk, s/he will also do sober. A lesson I have learned well over the years.

BTW - it's contrary to nature to practice taiji too.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by Tak
Anything a person will do while drunk, s/he will also do sober. A lesson I have learned well over the years. I've never peed on a cat while sober.

[Tak]

Give it time.

[KC Elbows]

Originally posted by SevenStar
it's like this. Society's acceptance of things that were once considered sacred are going to he11 in a handbasket - fast.

Ok, I'm a big stickler for p1ssing on any argument that assumes a past of perfect civility, and I've been drinking a lot of Gatorade this morning.

IF those things were really held as sacred, what was the motivation for coming up with the golden rule?

IF those things were sacred, why is it that any history buff can rattle off the inequities of people 150 years dead? Presidents, hell, we can cover the total moral bankruptcy of a pope or two from hundreds of years ago, not to mention the habits of more than one disciple before meeting Christ.

Thomas Jefferson? Hmmmmmmm? Thomas Jefferson was a frikkin man-god, and he stuck it in everyone, there's squirrels sueing for rights to his lineage and legacy.

I want you to pin down this perfect time to a specific date, write a paper about it, and turn it in to me before you ever again mention this perfect past. Include what your ancestors would have been up to during this utopian time.

Would you mark the end of this time with the advent of Elvis or the Beatles or Little Richard?

Also, during this time, what were we doing to shut up those uppity women and keep them in the home and away from Aleister Crowley?:D

[KC Elbows]

P.S. Some women know they have control issues when drinking, thus the "girl's night out", they try to pick friends who will keep guys off of them when they are drunk.

That's the problem, just about any women will have guys coming on to them when they're drunk, whereas a lot of guys have the opposite. The opportunities and risk are higher, and the integrity needed is higher as well.

However, most women like this grow out of this stage, or move into a trailer.

All you can do is be good to each other and make it clear that you won't stick around for someone who isn't trying to do the same.

WD's approach is too high maintenance for me, I barely have enough time to check my own emails. One doesn't need to investigate to know when something's wrong, but everyone's got their own approach.

[Merryprankster]

Amen KC.

Romanticizing the past seems to be a common theme around here...usually it's an MA issue though!

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by KC Elbows


WD's approach is too high maintenance for me, I barely have enough time to check my own emails. One doesn't need to investigate to know when something's wrong, but everyone's got their own approach.

My approach is actually pretty low maintenance, KC. I don't keep female friends and my wife doesn't keep male friends. Neitherr of us goes to clubs or bars alone. We do both go ut with our friends alone, but we are both comfortable with that.

[Shaolinlueb]

woman are good for three things

making babies, cooking food for you, and house cleaning (which includes laundry) :o :D :p


jk

[Royal Dragon]

WD,
Personally, I like your approach here. Although I do have female freinds, one I'm perticularly close to. Her and I have been feinds for 23 & some odd years now, and never crossed the line with one another, so I don't think having freinds of the opposite sex is all that much of an issue when it comes to me. HOWEVER, I do know Men, and Women alike who have crossed the line with their freinds of the opposite sex, with disasterous results to their current relationships.

I personally favor the checking up on eachother idea, high maintinance or not. Terri used to do it all the time, and actually had me "Under Surveliance" for a wile when my buddy Russ had his "Girl freind" move into his shop (Wife at home never knew about it). He an I were doing lots of heavy sparring with eachother back then, pretty regularly (in the shop, on concrete minimal gear, wth locks throws and ground) and this girl was allways around watching when we did this. Terri was there often too, and it seems the more she was, the more she didn't trust this girl (Could have something to do with the fact she kept flirting with me in front of her). When I caught her following me, and watching from up the street with her Cannon Rebel G and her telephoto lense, I was actually amused. In this case it put her mind at ease because she saw I was pushing her advances away even when she was NOT there. She has pics of Russ and his girlfeind though, really good blackmail material infact.



P.S. Some women know they have control issues when drinking, thus the "girl's night out", they try to pick friends who will keep guys off of them when they are drunk.

Reply]
Others pick freinds who won't tell their husbands more often I think.

WD's approach is too high maintenance for me, I barely have enough time to check my own emails. One doesn't need to investigate to know when something's wrong, but everyone's got their own approach.

Reply]
But I feel you DO need to investigate to find out "What" is wrong. Is she really cheating, or are you just paraniod? Maybe there is nothing at all, as in the case of me and Terri. She investigated, and found her suspicions were unfounded. Better to do that, then end a relationship on unfounded fears rooted in misdirected circumstantial evidance I think.

[Water Dragon]

Ugh! I've been misunderstood again. I do NOT believe in checking up on my spouse. What I was trying to explain was that I could go home right now, and tell my wife to pull up her e-mail account and let me read it, and she would. IF she would ask me to, I would do the same thing.

A lot of people look at this as an invasion of privacy. To me, it falls under the idea of voluntarily giving up your individualism in the hope of creating something better.

The main point is that we have sat down and DISCUSSED what is acceptable to us and what is not. Not all relationships w/ someone of the opposite sex end in an affair, but you wont be able to pick out the one that does.

Again, what everything boils down to is good, honest communication. Develop THAT and you can handle most anything.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Water Dragon
Gian, anyone will cheat if they are put into the right situation.

What you need to do is establish a plan so that neither one of you are ever put into those situations. To do that, you both need to admit that you would cheat if the circumstance were right and that you don't want that to happen.

Most relationships fall apart due to communication issues. We tend to believe that people do/should behave as we do. Or they don't want to talk about certain things because it 'spoils the romance.'

Talk, find out what is important to the other person, and give them that. They should do the same for you. If you can find out what will make the other person happy and do it, and the do the same, then you're both happy. But it takes being able to put the other person above you. You need to voluntarily give up you individualism in the hopes of achieving something great, and that's what ****s up most people.

Also, you should never totally 'trust' anyone. If you are suspicious of something, you have the right to question it. I have made my wife oipen her e-mail account for me on a moments notice before, and she has done the same to me. It's no big deal. We both have peace of mind.

I'm still calling out YYD as a punk and a liar.

excellent post.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Water Dragon
Ugh! I've been misunderstood again. I do NOT believe in checking up on my spouse. What I was trying to explain was that I could go home right now, and tell my wife to pull up her e-mail account and let me read it, and she would. IF she would ask me to, I would do the same thing.

A lot of people look at this as an invasion of privacy. To me, it falls under the idea of voluntarily giving up your individualism in the hope of creating something better.

The main point is that we have sat down and DISCUSSED what is acceptable to us and what is not. Not all relationships w/ someone of the opposite sex end in an affair, but you wont be able to pick out the one that does.

Again, what everything boils down to is good, honest communication. Develop THAT and you can handle most anything.

Exactly. It's not an issue of checking up. I can say "who are you text messaging?" And she should be able to tell me, that instant without hidiing it. If she falters of refuses to tell, I'd become suspicious. She, on the other hand may do the same thing to me. As a spouse, you have that right. If you're not hiding anything, just respond and keep on with your life. If one of you for some reason has trust issues, this can help you to resolve them. We actually go through this quite alot. Most of my friends are female. Consequently, she asks questions. I will do the same. She knows of every female I associate with, and has met a few of them - no problem.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by KC Elbows
Ok, I'm a big stickler for p1ssing on any argument that assumes a past of perfect civility, and I've been drinking a lot of Gatorade this morning.

IF those things were really held as sacred, what was the motivation for coming up with the golden rule?

IF those things were sacred, why is it that any history buff can rattle off the inequities of people 150 years dead? Presidents, hell, we can cover the total moral bankruptcy of a pope or two from hundreds of years ago, not to mention the habits of more than one disciple before meeting Christ.

Thomas Jefferson? Hmmmmmmm? Thomas Jefferson was a frikkin man-god, and he stuck it in everyone, there's squirrels sueing for rights to his lineage and legacy.

I want you to pin down this perfect time to a specific date, write a paper about it, and turn it in to me before you ever again mention this perfect past. Include what your ancestors would have been up to during this utopian time.

Would you mark the end of this time with the advent of Elvis or the Beatles or Little Richard?

Also, during this time, what were we doing to shut up those uppity women and keep them in the home and away from Aleister Crowley?:D

I'm not saying the past was perfect - we all know that's not true, especially you old guys on the forum. But you have to admit that alot has changed, in all respects. When I was grwoing up in the 80s, I could get into a fight and not expect a gun to be pulled. During that same time period, you really couldn't curse on non cable television, other than maybe he11 or d@mn, and there was no sex either. It's not like that anymore, obviously.

The past was by no means perfect, but there have been drastic changes in general.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Merryprankster
Amen KC.

Romanticizing the past seems to be a common theme around here...usually it's an MA issue though!

Hey, don't mix me up with THAT crowd... :D

[dodger87]

I cheat in cards all the time.

[Royal Dragon]

I think with Debbie (My new one), it's going to be smoother. we talk quite well, and she appears very comfortable telling me whats on her mind. I think as long as we have this, and the relationship is good I don't have to worry about her. It sounds like she has a history of breaking it off when it's over, instead of just cheating. So far, any issues we have had were solved by simply talking them out honestly. If she were to meet someone, all she has to do is tell me she needs some space, and i will understand. I can handle honesty like that. I CAN'T handle cheating, and sneaking around.

As for the checking up thing, in general, a Woman can be your "one and only" in your arms, but be anyone's when shes not. It's often really hard to tell. Some Women are excellent liears. Given the fact that your whole life is at stake when you commit to marriage, I'm not so sure spying on them when it comes to decision making time is totally wrong.

I know a Woman who's husband just blew a suposed $10,000 on a month long 27/4 Pi surveilance, and caught her cheating that way. He made alot of trouble with the info the PI gave him (Like telling her boss and such, because she works with the guy she's cheating with), and I don't think it's good to go that far as he has also told the guy's wife and has apparently taped phone conversations with her and her girlfreinds and such.

But then he IS her husband, and he has a right to know if she has betrayed him. At least he can now make his decisions based on the facts, and not having to wonder if she is, or is not a cheater. He now knows he can trust his paranoia.

The problem I see with that situation, is he TOLD her about it before the survelance operation was over, and won't call the investigators off. This tells me he is more interested in "Controlling" her than objectively making sure his fears were founded or not. He "Claims" he wants to work things out despite her having the affair. If it was me, I would never get a PI involved if I wasn't already prepared to leave upon confirmation of my suspicions.

I'm actually waiting to see the outcome of that little soap opera. In fact it's one of the big inspirations of my topic.

[Meat Shake]

Im 20.
"Solid relationship" or "serious relationship" mean nothing to me.
"Booty call" "friendly f*ck" "Friends with benefits" "hos"
These are the friends of a 20 year old male.
...
Then again there are a lot of guys that Im friends with that just kinda settle... Bah.
Variety is the spice of life mesays. Maybe one day 10 years from now Ill settle down, but not now.
Have I cheated? Yes.
Will I cheat again? Yes.
But at least Im honest. :p

And oh yeah... WD - Im pretty surprised you know as much as you do about the psychology of relationships. Most men above 25 think theres something wrong with reading up on the subject... Least around here thats what it seems.

[Tak]

Originally posted by Royal Dragon
When I caught her following me, and watching from up the street with her Cannon Rebel G and her telephoto lense
That would be breakup/divorce time for me.

[Royal Dragon]

I'm not worried about being spied on by my mate. If she was searching through my personal financial records, yes, as we were not married. If we were married, I maintain seperate finances anyway with a joint account for the family stuff. But spying to make sure I'm being faithfull is a non issue with me. She needed to know what was happeneing wiht this girl when I WASNT there escorted. whne she was there, the girl was flirting, in her mind that meant more was going on when she was not there.

In all honesty, considering we were thinking of marriage at the time, I might have done the same thing if she had given me cause, just to make sure I wasn't getting taken. I know people that lost thier homes to divorce.

If they had known they were marring a two faced cheating wench ahead of time, they wouldn't have gotten screwed so bad because they would have dumped the W-hore right away.

Women can fake it when they want. Some are EXCEPTIONALLY good at that. They see nothing wrong with getting married to the man of thier dreams, and having the man/men of their fantisies on the side. They never intend to leave the guy they are married to, but they don't intend to stop playing behind his back either. It's better to know if your dealing with high level deception BEFORE she brings you home Syphillis or Herpes or some other such thing.

Better to know now BEFORE she meets the smooth con man who's going to talk her into a divorce that costs you $35,000 and half of everything you worked so hard for all your life (Which he ends up with, through her in the end).

[The Willow Sword]

A woman is a Temple,,,,Built on a Sewer.



But men are not saints either. With the explosion of the late 60's and woman's lib. Things have changed drastically. Women do not feel confined to play the role of the submissive housewife.
Instead they now want to emulate the stupid sh!t that we men do on a constant basis.
I have to keep telling myself that when you are in a relationship and NOT a Marriage that things are not etched in stone when it comes to committment. It still hurts when you are cheated on though. So i try to keep an open mind when it comes to dating and relations with the wimmins. i mean i am not going to go around and have multiple partners(tooo many Std's out there)
But if thats what the women want to do to reclaim some power they think that we men have taken from them in generations past,,then so be it. the kharma will befall them and they will eventually dial the 1-800 # to get a free sample of valtrex and start thier suppressive therapy. Hey its like this kids,,when you $lut yourself around and you act in the manner in which you do(and this goes for us men too) you are going to eventually reap the consequences of your actions ie: STD or Unwanted preganacy or BOTH,,,hey and lets not forget AIDS.
As far as the Emotional impact that infidelity has on our psyches. Hey maybe we men have it comming for all the sh!t we have pulled to satisfy our urges in the past and in generations past.

I have never cheated on any of my relationships but i have been cheated on,,,,,i will say that when you are in a Marriage and you cheat and go out of the bounds of that committment that you made to your god and whomever else(like your wife/husband) it shows the level and manner of how low life and worthless you really are. But What about if there is abuse and control in the relationship? What of the Woman is getting beat up every other day and she is trying to find someone else who will support and care for her? Or what if the guy has no test!cles and lets the dominant female push him around and make him feel worthless? Does it justify cheating then? I say NO for why Lower yourself to the standard of the other person? Why be just as low life and Stupid as the other?

PEACE,,,TWS

[Tak]

That's what I'm saying - someone who has the need to spy on me has deep emotional issues and is betraying my trust as well as displaying a lack of her own.

[Royal Dragon]

I think in the case of abuse, a Woman often needs the stength a good man can provide to get her out of a bad situation. If starting a relationship that eventually gets her out of the bad one she is in helps, I'm not sure I could judge that as being wrong.

In the PI case though, I don't think the woman in question nessasarily needs the help of another man. I think she needs the support of good friends, but cheating at this point is not nessasarily the best thing in my book. She needs to end her relationship and move on first. I don't think the husband is beating her in this case, he's emotionally controlling. he likes to break her down, and lay massive guilt trips on her and such.

He got physical with her once, but he was in my car, and basically told me to "mind my place" when I tried to difuse one of their arguments, so I kicked him out of my car. When he wouldn't leave, I took me seat belt off, and started to open my dooor, and he basically exited my car by pushing her out her side, and going out thatway to get distance from me comming in his side. I think it was more spurred by the fact he thought I was about to majorly kick his ass than a desire to hurt her. Everything else has been emotional games, that I can see. Others dissagree with my assesment, but they didn't see the fear in his eyes as I took my seat belt off. I saw that through my rearview mirror, noone else had that angle of site.

[Water Dragon]

TWS,
I'm going to have to disagree with you in why women cheat. Women just don't think like that. Yes, of course some do, but there's generally other stuff going on in their psyche that makes them act like that.

For wome, sex is much more emotional than physical. Sex usually wont occur without some type of emotional attachment. Usually, women cheat with their male 'friends.'

Why?

Because the guy bided his time and behaved like a perfect gentleman. He never took it too far, he was just a 'nice guy.'

All of a sudden, these two are laughing, talking about stuff, the woman is being pursued and complimented and she feels a 'connection' to the guy.

That's when he'll make his move. When he has her trust is when he'll he'll break out his sob story to get her sympathy and only THEN will he give her the dick.

Now, there are always exceptions to the rule that porve the rule, but that's the gist.

If you read that description carefully and extrapolate, you can also figure out how to keep that situation from happening AND make sure you have a great relationship by providing what your woman wants.

You can't do stuff because YOU would appreciate it being done. You need to find out what exactly your woman appreciates, and give her that.

[Royal Dragon]

So basically tour saying Terri was "Nutts?" Well, you are right about that she is. BUT, I don't see how it was a betrayal of "MY" trust. I never indicated that spying on me was out of the question. In fact during times she accused me of being wiht this girl, I directly told her is she did not belive me that nothing was going on that she should have me followed, as I have nothing to fear or hide. So basically I let her know that was ok behaivor. I didn't actually expect her to do it, but I wasn't the least bit upset when she did. I actually felt a bit relived because I knew she would settle down about it afterwards.

[Royal Dragon]

HOLY SMOKES WD, I think you might be the only man on the planet that has Women halfway figured out.

GREAT POST


































Scrible in note book.................................Give Women lots of emotional sex

[Tak]

I'm suggesting that a person who is compelled to spy on her significant other has emotional problems.

And spying is one of those deceptive activities that I would consider a violation of trust - she's not just checking in on you, she's hiding from you - perhaps minor, but it indicates that the person would not be averse to violating your trust in other ways. Similar to lying, stealing, etc.

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by Royal Dragon
So basically tour saying Terri was "Nutts?" Well, you are right about that she is. BUT, I don't see how it was a betrayal of "MY" trust. I never indicated that spying on me was out of the question. In fact during times she accused me of being wiht this girl, I directly told her is she did not belive me that nothing was going on that she should have me followed, as I have nothing to fear or hide. So basically I let her know that was ok behaivor. I didn't actually expect her to do it, but I wasn't the least bit upset when she did. I actually felt a bit relived because I knew she would settle down about it afterwards.

No, if she was doing crazy stuff like running around and having one night stands, there was definately an issue though. Something probably happened to her where she attempts to use sex as a way to be loved or gain acceptance. It's pretty common.

I remember your story though. You found out she was messing aaround on you with some guy she met and 'fell in love' with him and left you to move in with him, yes?

Why do you think she 'fell in love' with him
How long do you think they were 'just friends' before that.
Why do you think she never meant for something like this to happen? (They never mean for something like this to happen. Hence, creating situations where it can't happen.)

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by Royal Dragon

Scrible in note book.................................Give Women lots of emotional sex

Exactly! Do you know 'how' to do that?

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Water Dragon
TWS,
I'm going to have to disagree with you in why women cheat. Women just don't think like that. Yes, of course some do, but there's generally other stuff going on in their psyche that makes them act like that.

For wome, sex is much more emotional than physical. Sex usually wont occur without some type of emotional attachment. Usually, women cheat with their male 'friends.'

Why?

Because the guy bided his time and behaved like a perfect gentleman. He never took it too far, he was just a 'nice guy.'

All of a sudden, these two are laughing, talking about stuff, the woman is being pursued and complimented and she feels a 'connection' to the guy.

That's when he'll make his move. When he has her trust is when he'll he'll break out his sob story to get her sympathy and only THEN will he give her the dick.

Now, there are always exceptions to the rule that porve the rule, but that's the gist.

If you read that description carefully and extrapolate, you can also figure out how to keep that situation from happening AND make sure you have a great relationship by providing what your woman wants.

You can't do stuff because YOU would appreciate it being done. You need to find out what exactly your woman appreciates, and give her that.

Exactly.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by Water Dragon
Exactly! Do you know 'how' to do that? Quit pressing for anal?

[Royal Dragon]

No, if she was doing crazy stuff like running around and having one night stands, there was definately an issue though. Something probably happened to her where she attempts to use sex as a way to be loved or gain acceptance. It's pretty common.

Reply]
Yup, it's called the Florida Outlaws

>>I remember your story though. You found out she was messing aaround on you with some guy she met and 'fell in love' with him and left you to move in with him, yes?

Reply]
Not quite, our relationship burned out, and her family in Ohmaha need her due to illness of her Mothern, and reacent heart attack of her father. her Sister had issues as well. The guy was someone she was just "Doing" the last few trips she made to visit her family. Love had nothing to do with it for her. She moved back home, and he was a toy for her because our relationship had pretty much died. Getting knocked up by one of the two of us was very "unplanned".

She didn't leave me for him, she left me becasue we were pretty mcuh over, and her family needed her. The other guy just happened to be there in the right place and time.

>Why do you think she 'fell in love' with him
How long do you think they were 'just friends' before that.

Reply]
I think it was maybe the last 3-4 visits at best. I think sex only happened on the very last trip based on her behaivior. I know it was not luv. She thought it was "Kinky" that he wore Woman's Thong undies. Terri was a rather Kinky girl. Sex was play to her. Emotion was a seperate issue.

>>Why do you think she never meant for something like this to happen? (They never mean for something like this to happen. Hence, creating situations where it can't happen.)

Reply]
I don't think it mattered, he was there, I was here, and being with the guy was better than being alone. Besides, I specifically told her that if she moved down there I was going to start dateing others. A long distance relationship was not an option for me, and I told her she would just have to deal with that or stay here.

I still Love her very much, but the way things changed between us AFTER the move is what really killed our relationship. At this point, I don't really want to talk to her anymore. Eventually I'm going to have to find out for sure if the baby is mine or not. If it is, it should be either born in the last few weeks, or will be in the next few days. For now, I'm avaoiding the whole thing. I have goals that need to be accomplished first.

[Water Dragon]

OK, I see. It's still a variation oin the same theme. You're relationship had 'died' as you say, so I'm assuming that you were not telling her how special she was nor taking the steps to ENSURE that she was happy.

Same thing, except she didn't really need to be 'wooed' away from you because you allowed her to be 'away' from you emotionally already.

And aqain I'll reiterate that if she has issues which would be some type of psychological trauma in the past (abuse, neglect, rape, etc) the rules dont' apply because the 'messages' in her brain will be warped.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings...

This is the first time ever i have even considered typing the next three letters... WTF!!!!... who believes marriage conferrs the "right" to spy, to make demands, to control.. that's BS AND it's the reason marriages fail.. trust and faith need no other crutches.. spying and questioning, checking-up, reading emails, etc.. are signatures of a lack of trust.. the only trust i need is the trust that i will continue to love my spouse unconditionally.. and, i don't even need to have that committment in return.. fortunately it's there, though.. the ONLY right marriage conferrs is the right to legal entanglements.. it's a sad system..

I've been married to the same lovely woman for 30 years (well, for 29.5 to be exact).. sure, we've both made mistakes AND we're both mature enough to see that Love is superior to lapses of judgment, we both hold the value of each other over the ego of trust.. neither of would consider spying, questioning or any other such nonsense.. we simply follow our hearts and we keep returning to each other.. returning with the knowledge that we are free to move on if we choose..

What would i do if i discovered that my lovely bride was having an affair? i would examine my own actions to see if i could do things better to make her home experience sufficient.. if i thought i was doing okay, i would wait to see if she returned to me or decided to move on.. i don't perceive that marriage gives me any rights over the actions of another.. and, if i truly love her, my interest is in her happiness.. not in some possessive pursuit of her favors..

We do the best we can, each of us.. sometimes we fall short of our goals.. sometimes we choose poorly.. sometimes we choose differently and pray for favorable results.. but, life goes on.. i will not discard 30 years of a life well-shared over something like a wounded ego.. heck, it may happen again, who knows.. but the knowledge that there is someone there that understands that what we have is greater than pride and ego is far more comfortable than the worries of spying and questioning and mistrust that most people call "trust"..

So, WTF.. if the Love is true, indescretions and poor choices will come and go, but the love is solid and everlasting.. none of us are saints and the guilt of trying to be one and failing is much worse the accepting your role as human and keeping it real..

Be well.. be gentle and forgiving, it is a strength with rewards..

[Royal Dragon]

Exactly! Do you know 'how' to do that? e

Reply]
With terri, I used to. But things have changed so drastically between us in the last year, that I don't even want to try it again if she came begging me to take her back.

With Debbie, it is easy. She just needs lots of attention and understanding. We debate well. She needs that as oppsoed to argueing. She also needs me to leave her be to do as she wishes (like go to concerts with the girls and stuff). But at the same time she needs plaenty of time wiht me doing the smae sorts of things. She needs me to tell her I love her, and to hold her close so she knows I really do want her. She seems to really apprreciate me being me.

With her it's a matter of holding on losely. Letting her know I care, and taking the time to make sure SHE is satisfied s much as I am.

Terri required playful kinky sex, an agressive fight every now and then and to be pampered like a queen wile being showered with presents (Collector knives were allways good with her)and too much "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" wile we layed on the couch together. She was your typical Outlaw biker chick to a great extent. This included needing me to be "In controll" of her much more than I really liked.

It took me half our relationship or more (8 years) to get her comfortable with deciding what we were going to do on a Friday Evening, or to make a plan without consulting me for "Permission". It was allways "What does Gian want" with her. I really think that when I stopped taking charge and began insisting that SHE thinks about what we were going to do from time to time, that she began to lose it for me. It's like she stopped respecting me becasue I wasn't laying down the law anymore. I really couldn't keep that up, it's too damm tireing. I like Debbie much better, I can just be me with her.

[Water Dragon]

I don't think the love between a husband and wife is unconditional.

If you came home and found your wife layed out on the couch with a dick in her mouth and another in her twat and then she laugherd at you when you objected while the other two guys continued to ream her, would you still love her?

If you came home and kicked your wife and broke her arm then went out and screwed her sister, came home drunk, and beat her again, would you expect her to still love you?

If so, I think you need to learn about personal boundaries and the idea of loving yourself.

[Royal Dragon]

Tai Chi Bob,

Personally, i think relationships can overcome indescretions, BUT to be sucsessful, you need trust. If that is gone, becasue you have been lied to, cheated on or what not, there is nothing wrong with ending it. Love does not mean you need to be screwed by a lying wench. I'd rather be alone.

If I get to the point where I feel the need to spy, it's not to "PROVE" She is a cheat. it's to make sure my instincts are right, and my plan to leave is the right one. By the time I would do that, I would already have the exit strategy in motion. It would be to make sure I'm not just being a paraniod goof (Because I actually am a paranoid goof).

[rubthebuddha]

i think the biggest issue here is one that WD hit on back on page 3 -- communication. and what is communication? sharing of knowledge, be it verbal or otherwise. your partner needs to be open on their expectations and you **** well better be able to pick up on them, and vice versa.

WD and his wife obviously know each other well enough that this whole issue of cheating is of no concern. why? cause they chat. and observe. and think. and repeat. it's not a difficult activity, and it's rewarding as all heck when it's done right. you can be oblivious and be happy in a relationship, but the second you start to suspect, that naiveté leaves you wide open for doubt and all it's unwelcome friends. if you know your partner, know what she or he wants, and actually act on it, you should be in good shape.

if you don't know what your partner wants, you can never be sure you're being all they want in a partner and are open for dismissal. if you do know and don't act on it, you're either a dick or the relationship isn't worth your time anyway. if you do know and you do act, and they do the same, you're golden.

so many people say that good relationships are a lot of work, yet how many people actually PUT that work into their relationship?

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Royal Dragon
Not quite, our relationship burned out, and her family in Ohmaha need her due to illness of her Mothern, and reacent heart attack of her father. her Sister had issues as well. The guy was someone she was just "Doing" the last few trips she made to visit her family. Love had nothing to do with it for her. She moved back home, and he was a toy for her because our relationship had pretty much died. Getting knocked up by one of the two of us was very "unplanned".

Right there. you say the relationship died. That implies that you were becoming disinterested in eachother. Once that happens, she is more easily attached to someone else - someone who makes her feel special and does the things that you did when you met her. He talks to her, makes her feel good, takes her places, etc. Basically, getting on her good side. She becomes attached to him which lowers her defenses. The next step is obvious.

She didn't leave me for him, she left me becasue we were pretty mcuh over, and her family needed her. The other guy just happened to be there in the right place and time.

you think he was there by accident?


I still Love her very much, but the way things changed between us AFTER the move is what really killed our relationship.

I don't think so. To her, the relationship was dead BEFORE the move...

[KC Elbows]

Originally posted by SevenStar
I'm not saying the past was perfect - we all know that's not true, especially you old guys on the forum. But you have to admit that alot has changed, in all respects. When I was grwoing up in the 80s, I could get into a fight and not expect a gun to be pulled. During that same time period, you really couldn't curse on non cable television, other than maybe he11 or d@mn, and there was no sex either. It's not like that anymore, obviously.

The past was by no means perfect, but there have been drastic changes in general.

First, you called me old. I'd kick your ass over that, but that would aggravate my rheumatism, what you kiddies call arthritis.

Second, everything you refer to in that post, with the exception of the gun comment, is the depiction of life, not life itself.

Now I happen to remember the eighties, despite my advanced age, and I seem to recall a lot of swearing everywhere BUT on TV. After all, we were stuck watching Give me a Break.

Also, and this will shock you, people were not only participating in vaginal intercourse in the eighties, but did so in flagrant violation of FCC rules and the Comics Code. And not just in California.

I think sexually, the main difference is that people are better at sex, better informed, and know not to use vasseline with condoms. This is good. Granted, there's more spread of STD's, but less pregnancy, which is good for the economy. You know, penicillin trade and all.

In fact, I think you've missed that eighties movies invariably involved cheating. I forgot about that, due to my age, but yeah, it strikes me I've seen John Cusack cheating on film more than anyone, and I wouldn't be surprised if a scene were cut out of ET where the little alien is with Rebecca DeMournay and that kid walks in, and the two have a long conversation about how they've changed, but ET really loves Elliot, and at the end of the scene, ET extends his finger and...

My point being, realism has overtaken mores in the case of sexuality in the media, even as it departed in regards to violence.

Especially when you look at the seventies, the present ain't so crazy, unless you watch tv. Then it seems off, but do you really think June and Ward named the biggest ***** on TV "Beaver" on accident?

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by rubthebuddha

so many people say that good relationships are a lot of work, yet how many people actually PUT that work into their relationship?

Exactly.
How much work do you put into developing your career?
How much work do you put into your Martial Arts?
Yet the most important relationship of your life is just supposed to happen?

To quote Biggie and Method Man,

**** the World, don't ask me for **** and everything thing you get you have to work HARD for it

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by KC Elbows
First, you called me old. I'd kick your ass over that, but that would aggravate my rheumatism, what you kiddies call arthritis.

fortunately, I run fast, old timer :D

Second, everything you refer to in that post, with the exception of the gun comment, is the depiction of life, not life itself.

true. but look at that depiction of life, and compare it with that of now.

Now I happen to remember the eighties, despite my advanced age, and I seem to recall a lot of swearing everywhere BUT on TV. After all, we were stuck watching Give me a Break.

yeah, that's back to depiction of life. we went from gimme a break, silver spoons and the cosby show to the family guy, queer as folk, the L word and the simpsons. Not that there's anything wrong with the simsons or the family guy, but look at the depiction and how it's changed over time.

I think sexually, the main difference is that people are better at sex, better informed, and know not to use vasseline with condoms. This is good. Granted, there's more spread of STD's, but less pregnancy, which is good for the economy. You know, penicillin trade and all.

they start earlier, they spread diseases... Are you saying that pregnancy rates were higher in the 80's?

In fact, I think you've missed that eighties movies invariably involved cheating. I forgot about that, due to my age, but yeah, it strikes me I've seen John Cusack cheating on film more than anyone, and I wouldn't be surprised if a scene were cut out of ET where the little alien is with Rebecca DeMournay and that kid walks in, and the two have a long conversation about how they've changed, but ET really loves Elliot, and at the end of the scene, ET extends his finger and...

I've seen fatal attraction, 9 1/2 weeks, etc. I've even seen the movie with cusack and elliot...That's a love scene I could've lived without seeing...

even as it departed in regards to violence.

I'm not sure it has.

Especially when you look at the seventies, the present ain't so crazy, unless you watch tv. Then it seems off, but do you really think June and Ward named the biggest ***** on TV "Beaver" on accident?

:D

[Tak]

If you get to the point where you feel the need to spy, the spying itself and its results have already become irrelevant.

[KC Elbows]

A recent study did show that STD rates rose over the last few years, while pregnancy rates dropped.

As for the changes in depictions of life, those don't automatically mean changes in life itself, but more often, changes in the medium that the depiction is occuring in, like TV.

And you're probably right about violence, it's been consistently unrealistic except in exceptional works.

"The L word"? What is this?

And would someone tell WD to stop checking up on his poor wife?:D

Just kidding, WD is wise in his ways.

I don't believe in following or checking up, there's always warning signs, and the only reason I'd ever get a PI is if the relationship were completely over and I was only out to ruthlessly guard my assets through having dirt on someone, and that has nothing to do with being a loving husband.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by KC Elbows

"The L word"? What is this?


It's basically the female version of queer as folk - it's a show following the lives of several lesbian women, a few of which are married and cheating on their spouses with a female.

[Tak]

A local radio station did a survey, and found that some high percentage (70-80% iirc) of heterosexuals wouldn't consider an extrarelationship affair with a same sex individual cheating.

[KC Elbows]

Originally posted by SevenStar
It's basically the female version of queer as folk - it's a show following the lives of several lesbian women, a few of which are married and cheating on their spouses with a female.

There's a radio show guy out here whose claim to fame is he's Melissa Ethridge's ex-husband. She comes on his show and everything. Not sure if he's dutch, though.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..


If you came home and found your wife layed out on the couch with a **** in her mouth and another in her twat and then she laugherd at you when you objected while the other two guys continued to ream her, would you still love her?
If you came home and kicked your wife and broke her arm then went out and screwed her sister, came home drunk, and beat her again, would you expect her to still love you?

First, that's a poor example of "thoughtfulness and mindfulness" by anyone.. either as an actual event or to even post on a forum.. both examples cross from acceptable to disrespectful of themselves and others.. and, yes, love doesn't just go away.. we simply choose how we will deal with it.. if love disappears in the heat of the moment, it's not love..


If so, I think you need to learn about personal boundaries and the idea of loving yourself.

Less judgement of others may be in order.. personal boundaries are just that, personal.. and, loving yourself is exactly the issue, not dominating others.. i will elaborate later.. must run for now..

Be well.. and, i applaud your position.. you are one disciplined person and it is a good thing, for you.. though it may differ for others.. tolerance is a beautiful concept..

[Water Dragon]

Well yes Bob, it was a poor example. What I did was try to come up with the most extreme example I could think of to show that there are indeed 'conditions' on our love.

The truth is that it is rarely a big noticeable event that kills love. It is a series of very small, almost unnoticeable things that over time lead to a break down of the Union.

Basically, people fall 'out of love' because the conditions that keep them 'in love' no longer exist.

I just think it's naive to assume love should be unconditional. The love between a Man and a Woman is indeed conditional. By accepting and embracing that, you can ensure theat the individual conditions YOU require are always met.

Of course your conditions and mine will be different, but the ideathat romantic love is conditional upon certain things does not.

I'm actually VERY tolerant Bob, just not when I'm trying to argue a point.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Tak
A local radio station did a survey, and found that some high percentage (70-80% iirc) of heterosexuals wouldn't consider an extrarelationship affair with a same sex individual cheating.

I wonder if these were mainly males or females? If they were males, yeah, I can see that. If they were women, that seems odd.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Water Dragon
The truth is that it is rarely a big noticeable event that kills love. It is a series of very small, almost unnoticeable things that over time lead to a break down of the Union.


Amen.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

maybe im too trusting.

guys hit on suzi all the time and i could give two ****s less. infact, i might be a little insulted if she went out to a bar without me and didnt get hit on at least once.

i honestly believe that neither one of us would stray as things are right now. things can change, sure, but as it stands after almost 9 years im a little impressed with both of us.

i have no desire to go checking up on her, but i have heard about her telling guys to **** off from many different friends in the course of normal conversation. sure i liked hearing this, but i didn't ask for the info either.

maybe she'd act different in another city or something, but i dont really care. if i ever found out she cheated the relationship would be over. i didnt find out about it i guess it's like it never really happened as far as im concerned. if she brought me home a nice scabby present for my wanker i'd slit her ****ing throat.

[KC Elbows]

GDA describes a good relationship. It's too flippin tiring to spend your time worrying about trust issues. 1) You find a trustworthy person, 2) you share your lives openly, and 3) you do your best to keep working on that as you grow. Not much more complicated than that. If you're hiring PI's or being stalked, you missed approximately 497 red flags in step 1, including the note from Jesus saying your new chick's a psycho hosebeast. He's cool that way, the christ child. Always looking out for a bro.

[Volcano Admim]

you people need to relax

[rubthebuddha]

and kc has chauffeured this thread to 1600 correct drive. :)

[KC Elbows]

That makes sevenstar Ms. Daisy.:D

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
I've never peed on a cat while sober.

and

Quit pressing for anal?


2 favorite quotes this thread.

[YinYangDagger]

In case anyone is interested...

http://aolsvc.health.webmd.aol.com/content/Article/90/100725.htm?pagenumber=1

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by SevenStar
it's like this. Society's acceptance of things that were once considered sacred are going to he11 in a handbasket - fast. That's just how it is.



yes...but feel free to maintain your own integrity any time you choose ;)


I get flirted with on a daily basis at work, by women who know I am married, as well as by those who don't. I've gotten offers to have sex with women who know full well that I am married. What's their reasoning?



it's human nature to wanna play a lil.but here's a reality hit....we don't REALLY wanna sex yas ....jus playing ya know...............REALLY....bu yao( don't want).....like when the boys flirt with me here.........same sh*t different bucket, doesn't mean they wanna lay me...........accept it ............




"He's married, not me, so I'm not cheating. If he wants to cheat on his wife, then that's fine." Since she's not the one cheating, she's okay with it. I've asked a few women about this, and they all gave me a similar answer - look at what yin yang dagger said - she was hot and she wanted him, even thought she was married. No skin off YYD's teeth. He wasn't the one cheating.


there are soooo many attractive people in the world that you probbly could s*rew and have a hot time with, but at the end of the day, if your committed to your relationship, what appears to be sexual pre-bonk is nothing more than acknowledge of your prowess ...take the compliment, go home and make love to your partner..............




If I did cheat and my wife found out, would she be ****ed? sure she would. But in this day and age, many people either don't think or don't care about the consequences of such things.... at least, not until they are caught.



committment vs fanatasy ..........end 'o story............


Today, for many people, sex is just that - sex. nothing sacred or special about it, just a craving that has to be fulfilled.





(or you'll just leave realising that honeymoon 's over and when it comes down to daily life and reality, we're probably more different than my hormones want to admit.................







If things are not going well in your relationship, sex life will probably decline. If it does, when it's time for that need to be fulfilled, some people will look elsewhere.



....................if you're going elsewhere, it's time to do a reality check on what you really want and how much you're willing to comprimise and still be able to feel comforted, sexually attractve yourself, competant and or talented , unstupid, un-comparitvely to your partener self - pedestalled ( as in doing equality / no longterm resent or lack of esteem either side( I'm not your hero and you 're you're sure as hell not mine deal) and any thing else that matters..............)

[blooming lotus]

I beileve it to be a commitment of acceptance, warts and all knowing that some of those warts will be full of puss and be anything but attractive, yet accepting that under the wart is still that babe of a spirit , that you grew to wanna be with in the first place.........................

[fa_jing]

That was beautiful, BL.

My wife lets me know that she is checking on me, so it isn't spying. OTOH, she often threatens to cut my d:ck off if I stray and kill the b:itch too. It's basically a form of subtle encouragement. Just part of the game of life if you ask me.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

That was beautiful, BL.

i can't get myself to read her posts at all. i've tried but i just kinda skip right past them.

[blooming lotus]

GDA.you make me so sad I almost cry.........considering your predicament, now would be a real good time to consider the deep ones.............


que sera and good luck to you :)

[KC Elbows]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
I beileve it to be a commitment of acceptance, warts and all knowing that some of those warts will be full of puss and be anything but attractive, yet accepting that under the wart is still that babe of a spirit , that you grew to wanna be with in the first place.........................

Actually, it's a show about lesbians.

[Vash]

Originally posted by KC Elbows
lesbians

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

lipstick lesbians are fuggen sweet.

bulldykes are just guys who you'd be embarrassed about if they beat you up.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by blooming lotus

it's human nature to wanna play a lil.but here's a reality hit....we don't REALLY wanna sex yas ....jus playing ya know...............REALLY....bu yao( don't want).....like when the boys flirt with me here.........same sh*t different bucket, doesn't mean they wanna lay me...........accept it ............


Nah, not always. The woman who grabbed my chest two days ago and made comments? she was flirting. The woman who said she wanted me to fock the sh!t out of her? she was serious. The woman who is always smiling and making innuendo filled comments? she's flirting too. But, the one who says "I don't care about mrs. sevenstar - If I wanna do her husband, I'll do her husband..."? She was quite serious. So was the one who on her wedding anniversary wanted me to spend time with her instead of her own husband...

you can always tell the difference between flirting and seriousness. While most of them are flirting, a handful of them are dead serious.

boys flirt with you? Why??

committment vs fanatasy ..........end 'o story............

that depends on who you ask...


(or you'll just leave realising that honeymoon 's over and when it comes down to daily life and reality, we're probably more different than my hormones want to admit.................

why does he care? he still got you.

....................if you're going elsewhere, it's time to do a reality check on what you really want and how much you're willing to comprimise and still be able to feel comforted, sexually attractve yourself, competant and or talented , unstupid, un-comparitvely to your partener self - pedestalled ( as in doing equality / no longterm resent or lack of esteem either side( I'm not your hero and you 're you're sure as hell not mine deal) and any thing else that matters..............)

If you go elsewhere, then you're already past that point.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by KC Elbows
That makes sevenstar Ms. Daisy.:D

Why do I have to be the old woman? :D

[Volcano Admim]

this one time there was this two short blonde chicks and i had a gladiator costume on myself
one of em touched my chest
both o em were smilling lots

they said somehting to me

i was so drunk, the music was so loud
i didnt understnad a word
and after 6 seconds trying to understand em i just walked away (man... wheres the bathroom) or was it (man... more beer)

i just dont know

[Volcano Admim]

oh yeah forgot to say

thats flirting
wich i realised actually 30 seconds later

when i was kinda far away from em already trying to balance myself to climb this stairs

[SevenStar]

poor xeb...:(

[red5angel]

Xeb's got no game. Xeb, when I get down to brazil this winter, Imma gonna show you how to throw game to the hoes ok? We'lll be throwing the juice back, flinging some bling and spinnin' the hose like it's 1999.

[Volcano Admim]

that was last year you guys
it sucked
a lot

at the time, on the next day, i didnt know what was worse
the total bill of the party ($50 costume + 70 drinks + 5 ticket + 10 to a buddy + 10 to another buddy)
or "my pimp game"
or the fact that with that money... i could... you know...


not that i have gotten much better now
only machine_phantom did
he had sent me a huge text of some stuff hed been through
machine is slowly improving
he told me he wants to test some more stuff next party
sorry, machine, i know you told me not to reveal your name but i couldnt resist
i love you man

[red5angel]

you should stop living men and start loving women xebs.

[Volcano Admim]

...

the sharp knife...

of...

truth

[red5angel]

to be fair I hear you peeps in brazil are free with your love.......

[Royal Dragon]

She didn't leave me for him, she left me becasue we were pretty mcuh over, and her family needed her. The other guy just happened to be there in the right place and time.

you think he was there by accident?

Reply]
When I first heard it, Terri said he was a "Heating & Airconditioning" guy who was starting his own buisness. He was over doing some work for her parents. I later found out he was the maintinance man of the Town Home complex her parents lived at. He was there to fix a stopped up toilet during one of the trips she was on to visit her family (The one last July I believe). That is how they met.


Shortly after she moved (November 1st), he lost his job, then his Town home (he lived in the comlex), and ended up living with her and her parents (She was already pregnant at this point, but he didnt know). When he found out she was pregant, he ran, but had no where to go and came back. Rummur has it he has substance abuse problems as well, and Terri kicked him out of the house a few times for it.

As for Terri and me, basically, her and I burned out, I got tired of trying and getting nowhere, so I just began to ignore her alot (Seemed to be the only way to get her to pay any attention to me at that point). When she was almost ready to move, I asked her if she would stay if I asked her to marry me, she said she would. To me, based on the way things had gotten, she was more interested in the ring than me, so I told her if she truely loved me, she would stay and work things out, but that I was NOT going to keep trying in futility on my own. It had to be both of us. By the time she left, I was resided to the fact that it was over, and let her go. I didn't even try to keep her. I think she was more hurt than she let on by that. But in the same breath, she had given up trying too. Her idea of making it work seemed to be to allow me to excessivley pamper her.

I was just so tired of trying to please her all the time, and not getting anywhere. It was getting to a point where she was like this princess who sat on the throne waiting to be served hand and foot. I just couldn't keep that up. It wasn't good for me, it may have been good for her, but not for me. Besides, I don't think it's good for my daughter to see me treating her like that either. She needs to know a Man is not her servant.

Anyway, I got to the point where I really felt she would only love me if I was excessively pampering her, and then it was only a fraction of what she freely gave when we were still "In love".

The relationship had turned, and become toxic for both of us. It needed to end. I just hope the baby is his, and not mine. It should be born any day now, if it's not already.

As for Debbie, her and I went out lastnight, had a GREAT time. It feels really good to be with someone who loves me freely, and appreciates the fact that I took her out, spent Money on her and payed lots of attention to her. I can make love to her for 3 hours straight, laugh and giggle about the dumbest things, and then wake up the next day and have an intellectual debate on a topic we have diametracally opposed veiws on, and it DOESN'T turn into a fight. It's a normal, healthy reltionship, and I'm happy as hell.

Terri and I were allways in the Twilightzone, from day one (those of you that have met her know what I mean). It was an extreamly rocky realtionship with endess fighting and bickering. We were a really good match so far as common interests, ideology, politics and whatnot, but she had demons that were just out of controll far, far to often. I finnally got so burnt out with "Dealing with her" that I just stopped caring.

If this parents health issue haden't come up, I don't know what I would have done. She's not really capable of supporting herself. She has no real job skills, and her personality pretty much gets her fired unless she's in a really bizzaro workplace to begin with. But I think at some point, she would have to go, it was getting to the point that I couldn't take her anymore.

I had a profile up on Match.com before she left, and searched it often when she was not around. I didn't start actively persuing anyone or chatting or anything till she had been gone for a long time though. I'd say last March, maybe as early as Febuary. But then I still didn't decide to actually meet anyone in person untill late May. Terri left the house November 1st last year.

The way I look at it, yes, she did cheat, as we still lived together at the time and were "Officially" still together. But the break up was already planned, and we both knew it was going to be over soon, so I really don't fault her for being with the other guy. I fault her for lying about it, covering it up, GETTING PREGNANT by one of us (She has no idea which), covering THAT up too, and generally being deceptive on a MASSIVE scale.

When the time comes, I WILL be hiring a PI to thourally investigate the situation to determin what the deal is with the Baby. It may just be a simple thing to have them pull the birth cetificate and find it's realy not mine by way of the date. However, I don't think it will go that way and a paternety suit will have to be filed in the end. So my soap opera with her is not done yet. It's just the calm before the storm.

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by Volcano Admim
this one time


......."and at band camp".........


american pie .............lol you unsexable ........I mean horn filled guy...............

[blooming lotus]

7 *...on the woman who grabbed your chest..........


like I said ( ( clears throat)......) we are only playing..............( and say no, and allow both her an your wife that much dignity ha...............)


and " he still gotchya"?????!!!!!............


yeah , but the meaning of forever seems to get shorter every day...........................:eek: :o :D :cool:

[Volcano Admim]

blooming

one day the females will pay for the way they mistreated me
and the way how they say "there is no timid men, only limp man!" and other sentances they use

you females disapoint me
thats why i like prostitution every day more

[blooming lotus]

:eek: :eek: .lol...............if I were where you are.......................:p :D

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
7 *...on the woman who grabbed your chest..........


like I said ( ( clears throat)......) we are only playing..............

let me quote myself, since you missed it:

"Nah, not always. The woman who grabbed my chest two days ago and made comments? she was flirting. The woman who said she wanted me to fock the sh!t out of her? she was serious. "


yeah , but the meaning of forever seems to get shorter every day...........................:eek: :o :D :cool:

seems like it.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
:eek: :eek: .lol...............if I were where you are.......................:p :D

was that an offer? Xeb, start your kegel exercises, pronto!

[blooming lotus]

7*.............

since you missed it...........let me explain...........to say that doesn't mean it's going to happen.......so you're hot........big deal, take the compliment and let her have her dignity back.................she may not know it, but few chicks (nor guys) despite their words really want to be desperate hoes............it's just emotional immaturity and it happens to the best of them......................between the lines.........read between the lines and check your own integrity and they'll continue to have theirs...........be a lil generous ha.............

[joedoe]

Sorry, I thought I was on KFM, not Oprah Winfrey's chat forum :D

[IronFist]

Originally posted by Royal Dragon

If it was me, I would defenetly turn her down. You can go on one of these internet dateing services, and find 50 pages of avaliable women within 5-10 miles of your home. Most are very attractive. There is no need to go get it from a married woman.


RD is talking about adultfriendfinder.com :D NOT WORK SAFE.

[SevenStar]

either that or lavalife...

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
7*.............

since you missed it...........let me explain...........to say that doesn't mean it's going to happen.......so you're hot........big deal, take the compliment and let her have her dignity back.................she may not know it, but few chicks (nor guys) despite their words really want to be desperate hoes............it's just emotional immaturity and it happens to the best of them......................between the lines.........read between the lines and check your own integrity and they'll continue to have theirs...........be a lil generous ha.............

I really don't care what her reason was - I know she was dead serious though. When stuff like that happens, you know if the person is serious or not. I've been around long enough to have at least figured out that much.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

VII* a playa.

don't be playa hatin.

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by SevenStar
I really don't care what her reason was - I know she was dead serious though. When stuff like that happens, you know if the person is serious or not. I've been around long enough to have at least figured out that much.

ok stud.............but just 'cause someone offers it doesn't mean you have to take them up..............

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
ok stud.............but just 'cause someone offers it doesn't mean you have to take them up..............

Lotus, I really wish you would have let him known that before I told him to suck my ****

[Royal Dragon]

WD, you told "HIM?" to suck you off? "HIM?"
































Not that I'm a ****phobe or anything :D

[Water Dragon]

lol @ Gian missing the joke as always :D

[Starchaser107]

if cheating is "natural" why does it drive people to murder, depression, alcohol/drug abuse, or self destructive activity?
I don't agree with this new age theory that says that infidelity is natural.
I would be more inclined to say that it is the currupt and insatiable alpha males of this day that are trying to make it seem like cheating is a divine blessing from god. which it isn't.

but it all depends on what definition one might have for cheating,
as long as there is honesty and mutual agreement , i believe that there can be no "cheating". i think that pretty much speaks for itself.

remember my friends, that karma is a *****. So be careful what you throw out there, your actions may come back to haunt you.

do on to others as you would have them do on to you.
when you dig a grave remember to dig two.

[SevenStar]

<lisp>
****** WD, quit telling all my shecretsh
</lisp>

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
ok stud............

and don't you forget it.


but just 'cause someone offers it doesn't mean you have to take them up..............

I agree completely.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Starchaser107
if cheating is "natural" why does it drive people to murder, depression, alcohol/drug abuse, or self destructive activity?
I don't agree with this new age theory that says that infidelity is natural.
I would be more inclined to say that it is the currupt and insatiable alpha males of this day that are trying to make it seem like cheating is a divine blessing from god. which it isn't.

but it all depends on what definition one might have for cheating,
as long as there is honesty and mutual agreement , i believe that there can be no "cheating". i think that pretty much speaks for itself.

remember my friends, that karma is a *****. So be careful what you throw out there, your actions may come back to haunt you.

do on to others as you would have them do on to you.
when you dig a grave remember to dig two.

maybe it depends on the definition of natural, or the viewpoint. If I'm with wushu chick and I cheat on her, then she may go through the symptoms you listed - I would not. death is natural, but it can make people go through similar unfortunate states of mind.

Some people by nature do not deal with committment well. These people are better off single until they learn to control their urges or they very well may end up hurting someone. to such people, cheating may indeed be natural. My wife's father is an example of that. He was an awesome dad to her, but makes a shytty husband. he's never been a relationship where he hasn't cheated. So far, it's cost him three marriages. It's just natural for him to cheat, sadly.

[Vash]

ST107 has taken the correct behind the water shed and made it his b.tch.

[Starchaser107]

originally posted by Sevenstar
__________________________________________________ _
"maybe it depends on the definition of natural, or the viewpoint. If I'm with wushu chick and I cheat on her, then she may go through the symptoms you listed - I would not. death is natural, but it can make people go through similar unfortunate states of mind.

Some people by nature do not deal with committment well. These people are better off single until they learn to control their urges or they very well may end up hurting someone. to such people, cheating may indeed be natural. My wife's father is an example of that. He was an awesome dad to her, but makes a shytty husband. he's never been a relationship where he hasn't cheated. So far, it's cost him three marriages. It's just natural for him to cheat, sadly."
__________________________________________________ __

agreed.

however my point was that there are people that try to make it seem as if one way of life (thier own) is more natural than the other , and that there is no point in fidelity.
this is totally incorrect.
everyone has to find out what is right and natural for them.

on a side note though...
there is karmic debt and karmic consequences. certain things that may be totally acceptable and natural to you or me , may not necessarily be ok for the person/s we are interacting with, and I do believe that we have a responsibility to look out for the interests (mental, physical, & emotional well being) of the people we interact with...simply (but not only) because what you do will come back to you.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Vash
ST107 has taken the correct behind the water shed and made it his b.tch.

was he cheating with it?

[Starchaser107]

:o

...yes

[Tak]

Originally posted by SevenStar
I wonder if these were mainly males or females? If they were males, yeah, I can see that. If they were women, that seems odd.
Of the callins they played on the air, it was about 50-50. I think it was because the men who called in wanted to watch their women do other women, and the women who called in wanted to do other women.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

if only 100% of all relationships transcribed to that kind of beauty.

[MasterKiller]

http://maddox.xmission.com/26_things.html

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

thats one of my favorites.

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
http://maddox.xmission.com/26_things.html


conditioner : soft silky smoothness for hair in a bottle for me or for the both of........no , that jazz is expensive...just me ;):D