Yip Man vs Bruce Lee

[NorthernMantis]

Since people have been making a vs about everything I thought this would be interesting.Who do you think would win?Assuminng that both were at their peak level and at the same age

"Always be ready"

"right, that's it!you've insulted me, and you've insulted the shaolin temple!"-Fish of Furry

[CanadianBadAss]

the guy who used "modern arts"

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SydesJokes-Pics/files/Pictures/m/martialarts.gif

|) /- | | |
| / |_| |__

[Daniel Madar]

I read in one of Bruce's books, I can't recall which, that after working on Jeet Kune Do for some time, Bruce went back to meet with Yip Man. Yip asked Bruce to show his stuff, and then when Bruce made his move, Yip locked him up. Yip then told Bruce to keep practicing.

Can't remember the book though.

Merciless is Mercy.

[LEGEND]

WEIRD...could have sworn I read many books and haven't come across that one.

A

[Felipe Bido]

I would love to know more about that story. I have always been curious about that one.

-------------------------
-When it comes my turn...will you want me to go?
-For Democracy any man'd give his only begotten son.

[soy]

Bruce Lee wasnt that great of a fighter. I've seen much better. Yip Man would most likely win.

[jun_erh]

I think it's safe to say Yip Man had more skill and Bruce Lee an "external" advantage. What's that old saying, you put a dumb lion in a cage with a really smart chicken, you get chicken mcnuggets ;)

[Daniel Madar]

I think it was the Bruce Story by Linda Lee, so I suppose Bruce didn't write it.

Merciless is Mercy.

[Dragon Warrior]

bruce lee would defenitely kick yip man's ass. if yip man "locked up" bruce lee, that means that bruce let him, out of respect for his old teacher.

anyway, i give it to bruce, he was much more well rounded.

For years, religion did nothing but divide. (killa priest)

Religion is like a prison for the seekers of wisdom. (killa priest)

[NorthernMantis]

Hmm.. wasn't Yip Man famous for beating all those people in Hong Kong?Yip Man has won over 100 recorded fights I think.

When Bruce came to the U.S. Gin Fu Mark[sp?] gave him a swelled eye and taught him about short power.

I think Yip Man would win.

"Always be ready"

"right, that's it!you've insulted me, and you've insulted the shaolin temple!"-Fish of Furry

[PHILBERT]

I think Yip Man would of kicked Bruce's butt. That is, if both were in there physical prime (like you said in the original). Because look at it this way, if you look through the book Budo (with Morihei Ueshiba). In it, at the age of like 60-80, it shows him throwing people in THERE physical prime. This 70 year old man (it doesn't state the age of him), tossing guys who are much bigger, stronger and in there prime around. I know this is a book, but I doubt Morihei Ueshiba would of forged these photos. Maybe he did.

Just because they are old doesn't mean they are weaker. Yip Man had more instruction in martial arts than Lee ever did.

PHILBERT

[NorthernMantis]

Yeah but how many fights did Bruce win compared to Yip Man?Don't forget he was famous for being a good fighter ,other than being the Grandmaster of Wing Chun.

"Always be ready"

"right, that's it!you've insulted me, and you've insulted the shaolin temple!"-Fish of Furry

[NafAnal]

"When Bruce came to the U.S. Gin Fu Mark[sp?] gave him a swelled eye and taught him about short power."

DOn't think so. read an interview with GFM, never does he claim anything like this. i posted the link a while back.... search for it.

[sultanpro]

Yip Man, all the way!!

Its not what goes in a man that defile's him, its what comes out.

[Dave Farmer]

Yip Man. No contest.

'wing chun men do it with sticky hands'

[old jong]

There are masters.There are fighters.Bruce Lee was not even one of those! Maybe he had a few "kid" school yard things but really,he was more a show off than the real thing.He builded his reputation on flashy tricks only and cinematic charisma.
A master,Yip Man or any others who devote their entire lifes to the study of ONE style are miles ahead of any hot-headed guy with a flicky backfist or sidekick.
Don't forget that Bruce Lee had just started to scratch the surface of wing chun when he dismissed it as not effective and too traditionnal.The usual reaction of an impatient and not humble enough to learn person.
Luckely for him ,he had the Green Hornet to save :D

Les paroles s'envolent.
Les écrits restent!...

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

i dont think bruce was all that bad. he was really fast, powerful, (seemed to) have good timing and spacing, and was in excellent shape. did he look 36 to you? just because he's not the best fighter around doesn't mean that he wasn't good and that he couldn't have kicked your a$$.

to answer the thread though . .. i give it to yip without question.

cross training the way bruce did only runs so deep. i don't think you can put an athelete up against a master and expect the athlete to win.

that's not a slam on cross training at all. i just think that it's a whole different ball game when you put anyone up against someone of yips level. do i think yip would beat ken shamrock or whoever is popular these days in the nhb events? absolutely.

maybe i'm wrong, but i doubt it.

where's my beer?

[KC Elbows]

Not a Bruce worshipper but in all fairness...

From everything I've heard, Bruce was a fighter. Most of his friends have made comments about Bruce taking challenges whenever he went over to Hong Kong, and many of them.

[BeiKongHui]

Yip Man ate punks like BLee for breakfast in his prime but even in his later years I'd put my money on Yip Man any day.

I have learned silence from the talkative, toleration from the intolerant, and kindness from the unkind; yet, strange, I am ungrateful to these teachers.
--Khalil Gibran

[Wongsifu]

I would have to say considering yip mans reputation , and all of the fights that he won, he would have beat bruce silly. Cmon bruce has 1 documented fight and that has 2 different sides to the story :D
oh except for all those black belt karate guys he impressed

I wongsifu shall strike fear into the hearts of trolls and mma guys who **** me off on these forums oh and in real life.

[KC Elbows]

Again, I'm not a Bruce nut, but there are a number of well known witnesses to more fights Bruce was in. That one documented fight was so poorly documented, and the only people there to witness were entirely partisan. Kareem commented a few times on how Bruce hardly turned down challenges in Hong Kong when Kareem was there.

[Dragon Warrior]

have any of you guys ever read the "tao of jeet kun do" that book was not written by some street punk who just dabbled in martial arts.

For years, religion did nothing but divide. (killa priest)

Religion is like a prison for the seekers of wisdom. (killa priest)

[Silumkid]

GDA,

I hope Bruce never looked 36 since he died when he was 32! :D

We are trained in wushu; we must protect the Temple!

[soy]

My teacher was a student of Jack Man Wong.. If you read the bruce lee story (written by his wife) it says he defeated an eagle claw instructur in san francisco. That was Jack Man Wong. Mr. Wong is too humble to say that he won, but the truth of the matter is he got bruce into a lock three times and asked bruce if he gave up. Bruce said he gave up, and kept fighting.

Bruce was a pretty decent fighter, but he wasnt a very good person. Which is more important anyways.

[DragonzRage]

From the way I see it, traditional kung fu technicians have a lot of trouble dealing with anything that moves in and out very quickly and hits fast and hard with combinations. Not to mention that the guys in Yip Man's day were used to the kung fu standard of attacking the body more so than head hunting all day like western fighters do.

i'd say Bruce by KO

"The UFC spawned a new breed of "mixed martial artists." World-class wrestlers learned to kickbox. Champion kickboxers learned to grapple. (The karate experts learned to stay home.)"

[DragonzRage]

soy,

I'm not saying that Wong Jack Man's account isn't possible, but you must also remember that it is basically his word against Bruce's. Unless you yourself were there, you shouldn't make such certain claims about what happened. I myself would say that between two such extremes, the truth is usually somewhere in the middle.

"The UFC spawned a new breed of "mixed martial artists." World-class wrestlers learned to kickbox. Champion kickboxers learned to grapple. (The karate experts learned to stay home.)"

[HopGar]

Yip Man. PERIOD. NO QUESTIONS ASKED.

Zvika

"He's not dead, 'es resting! Well if 'e's resting, I'll wake him up! 'Ello Mr. Polly Parrot...." -Monty Python, Dead Parrot Sketch

[wufupaul]

I love Wing Chun, and I love Jeet Kune Do, but I would have to hand it to Bruce.

In three words I can sum up everything I've learned about
life. IT GOES ON.

[Ish]

Id say ip man would definatly kick ass.

[jun_erh]

Among the many "modifications" Bruce Lee made were adding hooks and uppercuts to his Wing Chun. He was sort of the first mixed martial arts ultimate fighter guy. You'd like to beleive Yip Man would win and on paper (skill) he might, but for example, Muhammed Ali had to Dodge what's his name for like 10 rounds because he knew he'd be finished if he one of those huge punches connected. Yip man's skill would help him, but again, I think Brawn would beat brain. Not to mention that Bruce lee was also very skilled. Plus,Jeet Kun Do is as valid a style as Wing Chun and he was a master of that. Who cares about skill anyways, the whole reason wing chun exists is to fight a larger opponent. So obviously that implies that there is a handicap in place (the smaller size). and there's a reason that it's an obstacle, because big punches hurt. :D

[Watchman]

Bruce would have learned hooks and uppercuts in Wing Chun if he would have actually stuck with the art.

BTW, Old Jong is correct.

Ip Man had well documented fights against masters of other arts (Northern Praying Mantis and Bak Mei being the two most notable). He wasn't a slouch.

[Martial Joe]

Yip Man would have made him look like my sifu makes me look but much worse...

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif IXIJoe KaveyIXIhttp://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif
I am Sharky's main man...

[greedy]

It's funny that you see brawn as the deciding factor in giving the fight to Bruce, jun_erh. bruce has been qupoted as saying that Yip man had among the hardest strikes of any fighter he'd met. Remember also that we are talking about fighters in their prime.

About the Ali idea, with him having to absorb punishment on the ropes against Foreman, this is a boxing bout. Although beating Frasier 2 from 3, it was widely accepted that frasier would destroy Ali on the street, simply because Ali is a boxer, while Frasier was a fighter. Different games

[shinwa]

This topic is pretty goofy. How many of you guys have even seen Yip Man move? Who has seen Bruce lee seriously move? Even still, you're saying a really sick older man would have beat a man in the prime of his life. Not to mention that you can't verbalize someones reactions and mindstate during a fight unless the fight actually happened. Words can't decide winner and losers to a true fight.

[Watchman]

>>>you're saying a really sick older man would have beat a man in the prime of his life.<<<

The question was about BOTH individuals in their prime.

>>>How many of you guys have even seen Yip Man move?<<<

I haven't, but my Sigung has.

>>>you can't verbalize someones reactions and mindstate during a fight unless the fight actually happened. Words can't decide winner and losers to a true fight.<<<

I think we all understand that.

[shinwa]

Both individuals in their prime is an impossibility. Just the fact that such leaps in logic have to be made is why I don't understand these sort of topics/arguments. Especially when people are convinced that their opinion is truth.

[Watchman]

Besides, my opinion is always truth. :D

[Ryu]

I could beat them both up with my newly formed "Chinese BJJ" style.

http://www.wku.edu/library/events/hailar/MVC-723F.JPG

http://www.kfccinema.com/news/12/zu2-05.jpg


"One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."

[Chang Style Novice]

Nice Bokh photo, Ryu. Where'd you find it?

_______________________
I am the Grand Ultimate Silk Pyjama

[Ryu]

http://www.wku.edu/~yuanh/hailar/hailar.htm

Guy's travels in China, Mongolia, etc.

:)


Ryu

http://www.kfccinema.com/news/12/zu2-05.jpg


"One who takes pride in shallow knowledge or understanding is like a monkey who delights in adorning itself with garbage."

[shinwa]

This isn't fun. It's gugglyguck :p

[Wongsifu]

watchman theres hooks and uppercuts in WC ???

what do bin laden and general custer have in common????
They're both wondering where the fu(k all of those tomahawks are coming from. - donated by mojo

[jameswebsteruk]

I havent heard the story about Yip Man sparring with Bruce in his JKD years, but here is some interesting stuff about Bruce and Wong Shun Leung (Main instructor for Yip Man, and challenge fighter extrordinaire), written by the man himself:

http://www.wongvingtsun.co.uk/wslbl.htm

The chalice from the palace has the pellet with the poison,
The vessel with the pestle has the brew that is true!

[HuangKaiVun]

I think of it this way: Who'd I rather fight, Lee or Yip Man?

When it comes down to it, I'd rather fight Yip than Lee.


Not to rap Yip Man (a true master), but Bruce Lee had probably the most vicious killer instinct I've ever seen in a trained martial artist.

The look in Lee's eyes - I KNOW that look. Guys like Michael Jordan and Jascha Heifetz had that same look.

[old jong]

We have seen the same look in Elvis eyes,Sylvester Stallone's eyes,Robin's eyes! The Riddler's eyes,Arnold Swgagwhatsoever's eyes,Errol Flyn's eyes,Mr.T's eyes,Chuck Norris eyes,Rocket Robin Hood's eyes....You get the idea? This is a movie tough guy look! ;) ;) ;)

Les paroles s'envolent.
Les écrits restent!...

[LEGEND]

Bruce kinda drifted away from the wing chun concept of fighting with his JKD...his emphasis was more on boxing techs...kinda a hybrid kickboxing style with simple traps...u can see it in TOMMY's JKD site. I think YIP MAN was a true master in WING CHUN...and word had it his kicks were excellent even at his age. Bruce had nothing but respect for his sifu. When he came back to HK he wanted to finish his wing chun training...eventually YIP MAN showed him the 3rd BIL GEE form and WOODEN DUMMY form...Bruce wanted to record it...YIP MAN said NO. Bruce respected YIP MAN decision. Several of his classmates...WONG SHUN LEUNG( perhaps the greatest wing chun fighter of all time ), Hawkin Cheung( a HK student and cousin of William Cheung ), William Cheung( an older classmate and well known to take up the HK street challenges of old ) had witness Bruce fight with WING CHUN. Most said that at his young brass age...he was very aggressive with his attacks( prob. chain punching )...Robert Lee( B. Lee's brother ) says that he had seen Bruce win some fights...and lose some fights. In the JKD years...u have well known established martial artists...JOE LEWIS, CHUCK NORRIS, MIKE STONE=karate guys talk about BRUCE fighting ability. Jhoon Rhee, Ed Parker( deceased )and Gene Lebell has acknowledge that Bruce was one of the BEST MAs that they've ever seen.

A

[Watchman]

>>>watchman theres hooks and uppercuts in WC ???<<<

Not in exactly the same manner as you would see in Boxing. There is an uppercut motion in Chum Kiu (which is commonly referred to as a "lifting punch"), and the motion in the beginning of the form from seung jum sau to pai jarn can be made into a hook punch by simply closing the hands into fists.

Also, the cheung kau jek keun motion in Biu Tze uses a whipping/looping attack, which can be applied as a hook-type punch (which I have used in a fight before to good effect).

Bruce not learning/knowing these applications kind of gives you a general idea of how much Wing Chun he knew (or didn't know) before he went off on his own ideas.

HKV,

>>>Not to rap Yip Man (a true master), but Bruce Lee had probably the most vicious killer instinct I've ever seen in a trained martial artist.<<<

I'd stack Ip's "killer instinct" against the Brucinator's anyday. There are quite a few stories from his youngest son about Ip's "uncompromising attitude" from both his Foshan and Hong Kong days.

One of Ip's earliest fights was as a young 16 year-old hot head, in which he beat down a British Pakastani police officer who tried taking a baton to him.

shenwa,

We will corrupt you into our useless posting ways. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

[Wongsifu]

cheers watchman i get what you mean... its how to adapt moves etc , what bruce lee always used to go on about , and ironically he used to say traditional martial arts doesnt have enough of it in it ,

Thats one of the best examples youve come up with , ironic isnt it

what do bin laden and general custer have in common????
They're both wondering where the fu(k all of those tomahawks are coming from. - donated by mojo

[origenx]

I figure it'd be a draw since dead men can't fight...

[Turiyan]

I like a more likely story where bruce left HK (because he had to, he WAS kicking butt with the gangs that did all manner of KF styles) and learned some low kicks.

He flew back to HK and showed yip man, realising the way most do wing chun would "fail" at defending against them I imagine.

And yip man showed him the counters to the kicks with the hanging leg stance. Elements of a secret kicking form perhaps?

Point is, if there is one to everything, is that bruce actually evolved, and yip man showed him something not shown to the rest. He learned from several teachers and "combined" the curriculum, I doubt anyone got "all" the stuff.

"I hear and forget. I see, and remember. I do and understand." --Confucious

"Those who read the books are better than those that do not know them; those who remember them
are better than those that read them; those who understand them are better than those who remember them; and those who put them into action are better than those who understand them."
--Laws of Manu C12V103

"Virtues are not hidden things. Man is what he does." --Mencius

[Universal Stance]

I know for a fact. An earlier post stated that classical systems HAD problems with the Western way of in/out and quick/strong combinations. This is true. Not necessarily any more but it was true at the time. However, I don't think Bruce could handle some of the WC stylist today. The ones who are well aware of skipping, bobbing and weaving and the various angles of attack. He probably wouldn't win at first but a rematch might change that because Bruce was always evolving his style. Both would do damage though.

Here's why:

There is a book I have that is out of print called 'Jeet Kune Do/Wing Chun: A Comparison' by I think Ted Wong. Ted was the JKD practitioner and William Cheung was the WC practitioner. (This is ironic because Ted Wong was a student of Bruce and William Cheung was a senior and sometimes teacher of Bruce for WC). Both showed defense against various western attacks. Both would kick butt.

I'm a former student of W. Cheung's WC and if there is any style(s) I'm confident I can hold my own against it's boxing/kickboxing and some karate (I freak out again KF :-); hey I'm only a novice ). He has quite a system against jabs, hooks, and uppercuts.

I take a Universal Stance regarding the Martial Arts.

"**** it's cold out here to be practicing."

[LEGEND]

I use to be a student of WILLIAM CHEUNG's organization too...and I have heard a lot of SIFU's bad mouth about BRUCE without touching hands with BRUCE. This to me I'm curious...my problem with many wing chun stylist is they say they can hold there own against boxers and muy thai stylists...but I have yet seen a SAN SHOU tourney where they have done well.

A

[S.Teebas]

It is interesting that people refer to how 'scarry' or whatever burce looked. The reality is, however, that looks and muscles become useless against a real master.

Yip man would ahve wiped the floor with Bruce!

I saw one instructor of mine, (who could kill me anyday of the week - at that time) and he was really fit, had heaps of muscles etc... He had a past of kickboxing, boxing, karate etc... Anyway i saw him go up against one of the more senior guys in my school who had much more knowledge, but WAY fater and unfit. Well the senior guy eaisly controled the younger guy who was putting everythign into a sparing match they decided to have.

It was quite a sight to see, the young guy using the external techniques...putting everything he had into it, and boy was he working up a sweat trying to get through! Meanwhile the senior guy is very relaxed...almost in a meditative state of relaxation. I could see how much he was holding back too.

I've seen how knowledge can overpower muscles, or determination etc.... A thing I was told is "The mind is a million times stronger than any muscles!" ...i think this is very true.


S.Teebas

[HuangKaiVun]

old jong, NO.

Jordan and Heifetz, both masters of their arts, had a much more intense look in their eyes than any of the guys you mentioned. The same goes for Lee.

My guess is that you've never seen Jascha Heifetz play the violin, but he's widely regarded as the greatest violinist ever. And he has the same INTENSITY and FIRE that Bruce Lee has.

Kickass ability is usually heralded by kickass internal fire.

[LEGEND]

The problem with BRUCE LEE is the only ones that can verify his skills are his peers...CHUCK NORRIS, MIKE STONE, HAWKINS CHEUNG, WILLIAM CHEUNG, GENE LEBELL, JHOON RHEE, and some others. The video footage of BRUCE sparring and so forth are very old and the fact that he did not compete in MMA competition or SAN SHOU or KICKBOXING etc...it's tough to convince someone he can fight.

A

[Universal Stance]

I was generalizing that WC can hold well against boxing and the like. Trying not to single anyone out. I do know for sure W. Cheung's and Alan Lee's do defend very well again them. My sifu actually trained a couple of boxers on how to do a pak sao, a tan sao and a bil sao that would appear legal to the refs. I for one practice against jabs, hooks, uppercuts, and knees all the time.

I'm sure you have some credit about the san shou. I don't know if these two styles of WC had any good fighters participate. Keep in mind though that gloves are problematic for some core WC techniques.

I take a Universal Stance regarding the Martial Arts.

"**** it's cold out here to be practicing."

[Universal Stance]

Complimented him on his abilities in articles and in his book 'My Life with Wing Chun'. I believe him. And I believe Bruce had great speed and power for his frame.

On a side note: People really should stop thinking that just because you don't want to fight, it means you can't fight.

I bet that if Bruce was alive today you wouldn't have the guts to tell him he couldn't fight to his face. Even if he still didn't compete.

I take a Universal Stance regarding the Martial Arts.

"**** it's cold out here to be practicing."

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

"I think Brawn would beat brain"

so you're trying to tell us you're big and dumb?

"Who cares about skill anyways ... "

ok, we get it man. not everyone can be an einstine.

"the whole reason wing chun exists is to fight a larger opponent. So obviously that implies that there is a handicap in place (the smaller size). and there's a reason that it's an obstacle, because big punches hurt."

you have a very keen eye for the obvious my friend.

"You'd like to believe Yip Man would win . .. "

the deductive powers of the mentally meek never cease to amaze me. you are basically saying that wingchun was developed to beat larger opponents (or those with bigger punches), but because you don't believe skill is a major determining factor in a fight it doesn't really matter how much skill they have. they are still going to lose. they can win "on paper" sure, but when it comes down to it the "handicap" guy is gonna get knocked da fu ck out.

BUT THEN . . you used ali vs. foreman as an example to back up these claims. saying "for example, Muhammed Ali had to Dodge what's his name for like 10 rounds because he knew he'd be finished if he one of those huge punches connected."

but who one that fight???? ali won it. everyone knows that. and you're dumb for not knowing that.

where's my beer?

[Universal Stance]

Wing Chun was not created to fight bigger opponents though it is great for that. It was made to teach a student how to fight NOW as oppose to LATER as in the classical styles (MMA should appreciate that).

Also contrary to what many believe, JKD is not a style. Jun Fan was his style. Dan Inosanto (you do know who that is right?) puts it like this:

"People are still trying to define Jeet Kune Do in terms of distinct style, i.e. Bruce Lee’s Gung-Fu, Bruce Lee’s Karate, Bruce Lee’s Kick-Boxing or Bruce Lee’s Street Fighting. To label Jeet Kune Do as Bruce Lee’s martial art is to miss completely its meaning; its concepts simply cannot be confined within a system..."-- Guro Dan Inosanto

I take a Universal Stance regarding the Martial Arts.

"**** it's cold out here to be practicing."

[jun_erh]

I KNOW Ali won that fight! My point was about his strategy, certainly a valid one. Do you think Yip Man would take a similarly unorthadox approach to fighting a Bruce Lee type fighter? My general point was along the lines of this : Say, a Mike Tyson fights an old grandmaster of anyhting. The grandmaster gets in 20 punches/kicks, Tyson gets in one. winner? Tyson. Fighting is not a video game. Also, Bruce was a Jeet Kun Do master. Yip Man was a wing chun master. They were both masters. Would you say Wing Chun is better than JKD? Feel free to do your little unfunny nitpicking of my post in avoidence of the real issue as you do so well.

;)

[old jong]

With all respect for Bruce Lee athletic and cinematic talents I have to ask this...How can you become a master of Jeet Kune Do?...You invent it!
Anybody can be a "grand master" just by creating his own art. It's a lot easier than really mastering an already existing one.
I could start my own "Oldjongdo" based on my wing chun and what I have learned of Judo,Aikido,karate,TKD,and Tai-chi in the past.I could add some things from a Gracie tape and make others believe it is the new ultimate way to go!
Decades later,people would be still asking "what makes Oldjongdo Oldjongdo?
;) ;) ;)

Les paroles s'envolent.
Les écrits restent!...

[jun_erh]

Wing Chun was created relatively recently wasn't it? So the original wing chun guys weren't any good? Jeet Kun Do is not just a random name Bruce lee came up with to make himself seem important, it's a style. The timeline is insignificant.

[Sharky]

i thought it wasn't a style

All i wanted was some RICE CAKES! Now? WE MUST BATTLE.

[Watchman]

Take that nonsense to the JKD forum, Sharky.

BTW, I always thought it odd that Bruce decided to use a Japanese suffix in the name of his art. Shouldn't it be "Jeet Kune Tao".

And with this in mind, doesn't that in turn make the title of his famous book an oxymoron ("The Way of the Intercepting Fist Way")?

[joedoe]

I thought the original name was Jeet June Tao?

cxxx[]:::::::::::>
You're fu(king up my chi

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

"Say, a Mike Tyson fights an old grandmaster of anyhting. The grandmaster gets in 20 punches/kicks, Tyson gets in one. winner? "

if the "old grandmaster of anything" got in 20 shots i would have to give tyson credit for remaining on his feet past the first couple. i'm not saying that a legit master couldn't be taken out by a guy like tyson, but if tyson was still standing after getting hit repetedly by a "master" of any style he was fighting a fraud.

"Fighting is not a video game"

so you are saying that i should not expect to see someone pull off that really cool headbutt long does on tekken in a real fight? i bet you're also going to try to tell me im not going to be able to toss people up in the air by sweeping them so that i can then exeacute a spinning back kick and look really cool infront of all the ladies watching.

"Also, Bruce was a Jeet Kun Do master"

i'm not even going to touch that one.

"Would you say Wing Chun is better than JKD"

yeah.

"Feel free to do your little unfunny nitpicking of my post in avoidence of the real issue as you do so well"

i'll never be one to claim comedic genious, but i think that i have addressed the issue in both of these posts. you deny the obvious advantage that mastery of an art wields in combat and want to believe, for reasons of your own, that mighty retard strenght will prevail above skill.

where's my beer?

[S.Teebas]

GunnedDownAtrocity tell him the way it is!

Where can i start OldjongDo?

[jun_erh]

to get Gunned down atrocity off his dick!!! You just keep doing the same thing, taking something I say out of context and turning it into a rush limbough like parody. I don't blame you for being jealous of me, I'm a true student of the martial arts. You're a dabbler, a diletente. And the rest of you can lick my ass!!!! ;)

[Watchman]

Wow, such hostility over a hypothetical thread! :rolleyes:

[dre_doggX]

Yip Man would win in My opinon
espeacial if they were both at there prime.
the both started Kungfu around the same age.

so what if Bruce Lee would be "Stronger" I dont train in it anymore but I gotta admit Wingchun made my Tai Chi fighting fast.
and simple.

Wing Chun tones certain muscles use for speed.

people who dont no alot about martial arts( espeacial commerical people) will site Bruce Lee a thousand so people who no nothing about martial arts will aahhhh them.

no I dont think so.

William Cheung trained with Bruce Lee
I never heard Bruce Lee claim to be the greatest. but I think Cheung would beat him.
Cheung could do 8 punches in a sec at one time.
now
even Yip Man my not of been the greatest Wing Chun Master.(suffering from the popularity in the some story of Bruce Lee)

the are many styles of Wing CHun.

Yip Man didnt teach everything he knew to all is students.
and maybe his teaches were likewise.
somewhere done the road a teacher might even forget or undermind something in an art the may be other very little used to him but could of been used to his future lineage.
who knows.
this is why people should learn to make a martial art not a style but your style
and yes this is what Bruce Lee, said( I reciting Bruce Lee doing what I just comdemded when hes write hes write so sue me)

what I am trying to say is that the more we know about something the less we aahh at what we really dont understand , but at the same time we can have a respect for it.
Like Bruce Lee. we should respect him. buyunderstanding him. not worshiping him.
yes because we understand things we wont worship them in Ahhh but we can truely appericate them for what they really are.

Andre Lashley

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

"I don't blame you for being jealous of me, I'm a true student of the martial arts. You're a dabbler"

lol . . and your superior expertise shines through quite well over the forum.

ok . .. i may be being a d!ck about all this, but i'm sick and tired of people being completely ignorant to the striking power that a true master of any art possesses. again, i'm not saying that these guys can't be beat by a good brawler, i'm just saying that "big punches" alone is not a logical reason to give pretend victory to the guy fighting a master. infact, "big punches" would be a reason to lean towards the master if anything.

a master of bondo, a style that i'm not even that fond of, was able to pop balloons in the air with a punch when he was in his 90s. imagine if he hit tyson (or anyone) with that kind of power. (i know .. i know .. jun . . balloons don't hit back but it's still impressive) tyson may have crumbled the guy with a single hit, but the reverse is also true.

it's like saying that bruce would beat ali because bruce was quick . ...

where's my beer?

[LEGEND]

ANDRE LASHE...so what if william cheung could throw 8 punches in a sec...obviously didn't work against EMIN BOTSPE when he got scooped and slammed!

A

[FeloniousMonk]

Bruce would have had his a$$ handed to him! sure Bruce was fast and powerful, but if they were the same age and their knowledge was uneffected, my pal yip would have overpowered him, with the infinate knowledge that we grandmasters have. Bruce wouldn't even see it coming, yip would have flooded Bruce with, as Bruce Lee called it, a "progressive indirect attack". When your a master speed doesn't matter, because you feel what the other person is about to do. Bruce was no master, just a very strong, fast, little fighter, who had some traditional training. Not to mention Bruce couldn't rely on his speed his entire life, as age progresses speed decreases. I'm not saying Bruce lee, if he were alive today would be worse off than Ali (which is depressing, since I'm a fan of Ali due to his mind games) But none of this matters since I am ...... :rolleyes: :D

The unbeatable Felonious Monk

[jun_erh]

GDatrocity, it's funny because you can sort of tell that you're a wing chun guy from your style of arguement. I think I was sort of thinking (I do that) out loud when I said "brawn over brains". Maybe even trying to play devil's advocate a little bit. At this point I could care less about the initial question. You are probably right, anyway. my thing was sort of an anti-mystique sort of arguement. I mean, most fighting events DO have weight catagories, etc. :D