Yo merry

[Water Dragon]

I'm having a helluva time getting triangle. I can set it up well, but when I shoot my hips, I can't get my legs crossed up correctly. Miguel says that it's because I'm not hipping out right, but I'm still not getting it.

Any tips?

[Merryprankster]

Are you pivoting to bring your body more perpendicular to your opponent?

[edited for stupidity]

[Water Dragon]

I've tried that, but I still can't make enough space to lock in the triangle.

Basically this is what happens in my head when i shoot for it. I like to play with a deep lapel grip, going for collar chokes and then run my other attacks off that. So I'm going for chokes, I notice he has only one arm inside so I attack it, shoot my hips up and hip away from the arm that's trapped. Then I will grab my foot on the same side as the arm I have trapped with my free hand and try to get the triangle trapped up.

At this point, I have his head and arm controlled, but I can't get the back of my knee over the appropriate shin. It's just too tight to get position.

[Merryprankster]

I'm going to make a guess that you have too much of his back/shoulder in the triangle.

Do you find that there is "too much" of him in the way?

[Water Dragon]

That's exactly how I would describe it. Or maybe he's 'too big' to get in my triangle.

[Merryprankster]

You need to get the leg that is across his neck more perpendicular TO his neck.

The problem is that that leg is angled too parallel to him.

Most of the time, pivoting your body more is the biggest reason, but I'm going to work off the assumption that you are doing that already.

How is his posture? Because if you aren't breaking it down well enough, then you're going to have problems like what you are describing.

[Water Dragon]

Motherf*ck! That's it. I can see it now. That's what I'm not doing. The problem is that I'm not maneuvering the leg across the neck correctly.

If I'm right, I'm moving that leg from the thigh when I should be moving it from the calf, in regards to intention any way. Does that sound right?

I'm going to play with it in class tomorrow. I'll let you know what happened.

-edit-

I'm actually pretty good with breaking down his posture. Usually I go for a real deep collar grip w/ my right hand to establish control. Then I have a combo of 3 gi chokes I like to go far. When he starts defending the chokes well, I'll grab the inside of his right elbow with my left hand and pull it down to my chest. That's when I shoot the arm bar or triangle, depending on which one he gives me.

The other game I play is to try and use the collar grip to pull him on my knee and hit him with a scissor or a push sweep.

That's what I'm trying to do with my guard game anyway. Have anytips? I'm 6'1" and 190 walking. Average build

[ShaolinTiger00]

h20,

I used to hate the triangle. hated it. never got it & always transitioned to the armbar.

until I started training w/ TLI and I literally drilled it for 2 hours, 4x a week for 4 months now (I still do it by myself as a drill) Now I love it and use it in about every single attack.

As MP said getting perpendicular is everything. and even doubly so for us guys with short thick legs. That means pushing off the opposite hip with UMPH! and as you turn you need to do keep two other things in mind. 1 - lifting your upper back off the ground because friction will slow you down. 2 you've got to thrust your hips UP at his neck and then "bite" with the pressure of your inner thighs.

3 great details for the "tri" angle.

1. keep his head down. you should always have a hand pulling down his head or a hand on your shin or foot pulling down.

2. squeeze your knees together.

3. Hips up!


I'm currently doing alot of this from a high guard setup because it offers many options and transitions.

3. hips up.

[Merryprankster]

WD,

Work to "kick" the heel of the leg that's on his neck as far forward as possible as you pivot. This will help bring you around. The leg that goes on the outside of his arm should be coming tight and high to keep him from getting his arm out.

[red5angel]

put more glutimus maximus into it. Seriously, just thrust harder against your opponent until you feel a tingling in your groin.....I hear that does it for most grapplers. Your oppnent should just melt in you r hold and start smoking a cigarette ;)

[yenhoi]

With the gi Ive noticed its less of an issue. Guys with short legs have troubles with the triangle like merry said, too much back and posture etc. Guys with long legs have it easier with the triangle, I think and have a harder time with the arm bar - long legs harder to get over the head and inserted etc. I like to play high guard too - seems to work better with the long legs.. easier to kinda thread the needle then loop around all the time with closer tighter guard.

:eek:

[red5angel]

isn't that what I just said?

[Merryprankster]

Yenhoi,

When I break posture I go for the head and I use my hips and legs to break the guy forward. The gi usually has too much **** slack in it to get and keep the guy broken. Fine for feeding chokes, of course.

If you are having problems getting the arm bar with long legs, I can almost guarentee that you aren't doing the following two things:

1. Kicking your heel to the guy's neck while bringing your leg as high into their armpit as possible as you pivot.

2. Scraping your other leg across his face and then jamming it down on his head.

You should be tight through all of this. No space. That means using the leg on his back to control posture as well!!!

FWIW, I've never met a high guard I couldn't break open or bypass. With a high guard, unless you are keeping your hips GLUED to their body, you can't hang out there. You have to attack right away.

[ShaolinTiger00]

FWIW, I've never met a high guard I couldn't break open or bypass.

Will you hurry up and get better so I can kick your ass... :p

[Water Dragon]

I got the triangle now. What was happening is that I would pivot out when I shot the triangle, but I wasn't pivoting again after I locked it.

So I WAS pivoting, but I need to pivot twice. Once when I first shoot the triangle and again once I lock it.

Also figured out that you can helicopter from the trianagle and go for an armbar. I love doing this from armbar from guard. (Armbar from guard-helicopter sweep-armbar from sitting)

NOW: How do I decide when to shoot armbar vs. when to shoot triangle?

[ShaolinTiger00]

but I need to pivot twice.

You should only be pivoting once. but whatever works for you is the best way to go. "usually" the outside leg will push off his hip turning you perpendicular as you pull him in and push your hips up. from here there is no more turning. you'll just have to adjust the choke (pull the shin down pull the hand across deeper, knees together, hips up)

as to armbar & triangle. personally I go for the triangle first because it's an easy transtition to the armbar if you don't get it. going for an armbar and then trying to get back to a triangle is harder imho but can still be done.