Settling

[Hendrik]

have you heard about settling in WCK traiing?
What does settling mean for you?

[PaulH]

Never heard of it but I have read somewhere that it refers generally to a relaxed body, calmness in mind, breathing, and chi?

[yylee]

Originally posted by Hendrik
have you heard about settling in WCK traiing?
What does settling mean for you?

just went to Spider Man 2, great movie!

It must be a very unsettling experience for Peter Parker to lose his web spitting power. A power that he pocesses and trusts but fails right in front of his face when he most needs it.

Unsettling in training? we make 1 step forward in our prgcess but fall 2 step back. Fix one problem and immediately two new problems surface. Something suddently clicks and your mind says you've got it, but the body tells you that you are still not ready.

[Hendrik]

When Shen Kuang went to Shao Lin, He told Damo " I can not get my mind to settle into tranquil, Can shr fu please show me a method?"

Damo reply " Show me the thinker and I will settle your mind for you."

Then, Shen Kuang went back continous on his training on ----watching the thinker---. and he went back to Damo and said " But the thinker is not me."

Then, Damo Said, " See, I have already settled your mind"


This is Ch'an Koan. So what is this got to do with WCK? In this Koan, it hides a very serious key for cultivation.

Settling.


Settling or AAn is the first thing one has to cultivate in Chinese related art.

Settling in Breathing. Settling in body. Settling in mind..... etc

Via the vehicle of settling (AAn) one can travel furhter into silence
(Chiing) then further into Stillness (Ting or Shamadi)



So, what is settle in WCK? The first training of YJKYM after learn how to stand properly is Settling. The first training of SLT after learn all the move is Settling.


From Settling, one will arrive at a state similar to one place the muddly water to rest for a while and the mud sink down and one can see the crystal clean water. HOwever, at this state the mud was not revome yet. Thus, the Kung FU is still not very high.

Now a days, people talks about relax, talks about pain in the knees, talks about mixing different art, talks about the core key from shao lin formula........

But,


If the muddy water in the glass is not set still for awhile to let it settle. one will not be able to seperate what is what.
if the mud was not remove how can one shake the water and still keep it clear?

IMHO, if one doesnt know about Settling training. Then one doesnt know the process of the training because that is the first step. For settling is the first step of centering, balancing..... starts with static then goes dynamic.


Notice, settling is not sinking. or using force to make things sing faster. Settling takes time, mud sink down but water remain....

Settling --- the mother of all magic and tranformation.


Does one clamping one's YJKYM or one cultivate settling?
Does one hungging the tree make believe on practice Zhuang because " I have it too " or one really clutivate settling.


Can one constantly stirr the muddy water and expect it to settle?

Recently, I told a friend to give up the practice of YJKYM according to his thoughts and let things settle by nature. similar to how the muddy water settle after sometime.

I guess he doesnt understand me. since he brought up right the way " one has to face the problem to solve it instead of running away"... ect. very western stereos type thinking pattern.

sure, let the muddy water sit for a while and it will settle and solve its' muddy problem by itself. if one stirr it with thoughts and thoughts... it is not going to settle but always remain muddy.
Not to mention, the thinker is not oneself.

How to relax? when we try to force the nature according to one's thoughts wihtout an insight of the thinker is not me. and the thinker can be totally screw up.

So, the Chinese opinion is --- to learn Kung Fu ---- first get settle.

Remember Leong Jan's sumarization on his Wing Chun Kuen about Ch'an and infinite Changes and states? Yup, one has to settle, then remove the mud from the water, then the water is ready for infinite changes...... how can one listen with a noisy ear? how can one see in a muddy water?

Yes, everything is related..... there is no formula or advance formula but get the water crystal clear is the first step.
Settling is entering the door of chinese martial art.

Why do you think chinese martial art want the beginer to do standing?

to settle the body structure, to settle the breathing, to settle the mind, to connect the root chakra to mother earth for support, to connect the Bai Hui to the heaven for uplift spirit...... ---- the transfomation.

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by yylee
just went to Spider Man 2, great movie!




Great power comes with big responsibilities, and
sometimes sacrifiction of our desiring dream.

HOw to settle that without self sacrifiction?
How to settle the self sacrifiction ?
HOw to settle the thinker of the Self sacrifiction?

HOw to settle the emotion of pain create by self sacrifiction?

[PaulH]

I think a lightbolt has just seared one of my earlobes! Good post! =)

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by PaulH
I think a lightbolt has just seared one of my earlobe! Good post! =)

So a quize,

what is the different between settling and centring and sinking?
What is the relationship between settling and relaxation?
Will one relax without settling?
How is one settle in static and in dynamic states?

hahahaha. :D

if one knows how to settle just stand, sit, sleep... nothing has to be said.

if one knows not how to settle, writing a book of theories is not going to help.

life is paradox isnt it? cant live without theory can't live with theory. hahahaha

[PaulH]

Q:what is the different between settling and centring and sinking?

A: Settling - passive. Sinking active. Centering - Balance adjustment.

Q: What is the relationship between settling and relaxation?
A: relaxation is a prerequisite before settling

Q: Will one relax without settling?
A: For body - Yes ( A massage!) . For mind - No.

Q: How is one settle in static and in dynamic states?
A: In static state let it be. In dynamic states find balance in motion.

P.S. If I pass the test, would you send me your 1st level certification? =)

[Grond]

Settling --- the mother of all magic and tranformation.

Hendrik, do you know magical kungfu?

[Rhat]

Originally posted by Grond
Settling --- the mother of all magic and tranformation.

Hendrik, do you know magical kungfu?


Hendrik's magical kungfu:o :o :o :eek: :o :o :o :eek: :rolleyes:

[Zhuge Liang]

Hendrik,

I never thought of settling in terms of mud settling in water before, but that's a very effective way of describing what I've been struggling to achieve. Thanks for the visualization tool. It should come in handy.

Regards,
Alan

[Vajramusti]

I have used the mud settling analogy and others have too- not a bad analogy by Hendrik..Settling and sinking are not contradictory if sinking is understood as not just a mechanical process.

But sometimes hendrik urges forgetting about YJKYM.
Perahps our paths diverge on that. Samadhi is samadhi- but there is alot of material to master in WCK. WCK can be a gateway to enlightment- but it is still a fighting art and many people gravitate to it as a good example of a fighting art... though there are additional motiviations that diverse people have.

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by Zhuge Liang
Hendrik,

I never thought of settling in terms of mud settling in water before, but that's a very effective way of describing what I've been struggling to achieve. Thanks for the visualization tool. It should come in handy.

Regards,
Alan

Alan,

That is an old analogy in Buddhism, out from the Shurangama sutra when the Buddha trying to explain the training of mind/breathing/body.

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by Vajramusti

But sometimes hendrik urges forgetting about YJKYM.
Perahps our paths diverge on that. Samadhi is samadhi- but there is alot of material to master in WCK. WCK can be a gateway to enlightment- but it is still a fighting art and many people gravitate to it as a good example of a fighting art... though there are additional motiviations that diverse people have.


Joy,

today,
I have lunched in that Buddhist meeting place we went last year.
So, I read the Buddhist message from the Shao Lin Temple of Song San, address by the present Abort, Sek Yong-Sin.

The following is about what he said:

------------------
So called Shao Lin Wu Shu (Martial art) is not Shao Lin Kung Fu. Shao LIn Kung Fu has more contents and depth then so called Shal Lin Wu Shu ( martial art).

Some people love figthing so they thought Shao Lin only has fighting art (martial art) and physical exersice to build physical body. That is not what the Shao Lin Kung Fu of Shao Lin Temple about. That is very narrow.

Shao Lin kUng fu of Shao lin temple tradition is based in Buddhism tradition practices, Zen training, Prajna Wisdom, and lots of mental or spiritual training a side of physical training and application for fighting. It is broad and deep.

Thus, today's Shao Lin Wu Shu is narrow. and The Shao Lin Tradition Kung Fu has become very rare. Thus, there are all kind of fake Shao Lin Wu Shu schools which is very narrow.


------------------------


I think we can see the LET or Localization Evolution Theory in action here. on how things get evolved.

And Also what is the proper definition of Shao Lin Kung Fu from the Abort himself. Different with the popular version of definition.


As we can see the Leong Jan's Kuen Kuit comes with Ch'an as the conclusion.
We might want to look into the idea of the Shao Lin abbort. may be the Shao Lin temple's abbort is correct and he tells the truth. about what is Shao LIn kung fu is about.
So, there might be a question of Does one practice Wing Chun Kung Fu or Does one Practiced Wing Chun Wu Shu.




So, what is these above got to do with Settling?

When I was learning Shao Lin Kung Fu from my late Buddhist monk sifu. IT started with I have to stand in wide horse stance and listen to my breathing until it settle. ANd I was told the core of the Shao LIn Kung Fu is immovable heart . Then, that is the Zen and martial art are Non-dual.


As the Buddha told Ananda, in the training of MEditation, one needs to settle that muddy water.....


From all Buddhist derive Kung Fu from China I have come across, yes, settling is a big first training.

[Rhat]

Originally posted by Hendrik
We might want to look into the idea of may be the Shao Lin temple's abbort is correct. Does one practice Wing Chun Kung Fu or Does one Practiced Wing Chun Wu Shu.




LOL...next time, skip appealing to the shaolin temple's better natures. As for your rambling on this Wing Chun Wu Shu.... it is clearly an attempt to start more controversy. The Shaolin temple's abbort has nothing to do with your rambling on this forum.;)

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by madsox
Well, for me (the new guy at Wing Chun), it could mean several things. There's a physical answer for this, a mental answer, and a more spiritual answer. I've heard about the first two so far in my Wing Chun training, and the third in other things I practiced before coming into WC, so my answer there might be different.

Great thought-start, though, Hendrik - thank you again for another great post!

ND


You are welcome!

You are corret, there's a physical answer, mental, emotional,....etc
Settling is a big things. and since no one can know it all....so everyone can speak up and discuss about settling.

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by PaulH
If I pass the test, would you send me your 1st level certification? =)

Hey it is a Quize not a test! :D

I thought you are going to say, Parking is a pre-requisit of settling? or getting married is settling? :D



There is a joke about settling in San Jose among the engineers.

This is how settling transform :D

Before married --- unsettle and running around --- thus, it is an animal
After married -- settle to stay and not moving --- thus, it is a plant.
After having kids ---- Settle and sink --- Thus, it becomes a mineral.

[Vajramusti]

Notes on Hendrik's post:

Joy,

today,
I have lunched in that Buddhist meeting place we went last year.

((Good place and good food))

So, I read the Buddhist message from the Shao Lin Temple of Song San, address by the present Abort, Sek Yong-Sin.

((Since Mao-there is no separatyion of church and state...hence
politics is bound to be a silent partner in varying degrees in any appointment. As in Panchen lama issue))

The following is about what he said:

------------------
So called Shao Lin Wu Shu (Martial art) is not Shao Lin Kung Fu. Shao LIn Kung Fu has more contents and depth then so called Shal Lin Wu Shu ( martial art).

Some people love figthing so they thought Shao Lin only has fighting art (martial art) and physical exersice to build physical body. That is not what the Shao Lin Kung Fu of Shao Lin Temple about. That is very narrow.

((An understandable view for an abbot))

Shao Lin kUng fu of Shao lin temple tradition is based in Buddhism tradition practices, Zen training, Prajna Wisdom, and lots of mental or spiritual training a side of physical training and application for fighting. It is broad and deep.

Thus, today's Shao Lin Wu Shu is narrow. and The Shao Lin Tradition Kung Fu has become very rare. Thus, there are all kind of fake Shao Lin Wu Shu schools which is very narrow.

((An understandable position but also one where he is attempting to exert his own authority))



So, there might be a question of Does one practice Wing Chun Kung Fu or Does one Practiced Wing Chun Wu Shu.

((Wing chun is so full of money changers that I am not sure
that the issue can be resolved.Asuras rise in many forms))




So, what is these above got to do with Settling?



From all Buddhist derive Kung Fu from China I have come across, yes, settling is a big first training.




((For it to be really wing chun IMO- what you are calling settling
is important---not just anbstract issue---but an important practical issue of a good wing chun engine. But serious discussion of wing chun .... on the net? I dont think it's likely
Cant take posts in KFO seriously. And I dont think it's worth the effort))

[Hendrik]

Joy,




((For it to be really wing chun IMO- what you are calling settling
is important---not just anbstract issue---but an important practical issue of a good wing chun engine.

But serious discussion of wing chun .... on the net?

I dont think it's likely
Cant take posts in KFO seriously. And I dont think it's worth the effort))


Very True !

I guess we owe it to the ancestors just to mention some ideas so later some can check it out. But not much can be done more then that....:D


implementation of --- come accept, goes send, using the silence to subdue the action....

[Da_Moose]

Interesting discussion.

It seems as if the 'settling' Hendrik/the thread is talking about is a path to acheiving:
1. Mindlessness
2. Spontaneity
3. Samadhi
It also seems to have many layers in it, from mental to physical to spiritual, each having its own complexities.

Settling the mind in practice eventually leads to a state of 'no mind'. However, you also need something to focus on in order to achieve this mindlessness. You want to be aware of things, but not dwelling on them, you're focused on a moment, but not ignorant of all the immediate ambience around you. "Not thinking but feeling." The mind is empty of all extraneous thoughts (the bad lunch, argument with....., that a$$hole driver who cut you off, etc.) and lives in the present moment. This is part of what bowing is for too, bringing your mind into focus for the training in a given evening.


When Shen Kuang went to Shao Lin, He told Damo " I can not get my mind to settle into tranquil, Can shr fu please show me a method?"

Damo reply " Show me the thinker and I will settle your mind for you."

Then, Shen Kuang went back continous on his training on ----watching the thinker---. and he went back to Damo and said " But the thinker is not me."

Then, Damo Said, " See, I have already settled your mind"
The Damo gave his pupil a focus to dwell on, causing the pupil to think of nothing else for a time, settling the pupil’s mind by providing the one point of focus.

This being in the present leads to spontaneity of the body. Acting reflexively in the moment is a skill needed in a fight, as well as much of life. Go with the flow and don't intellectualize things too much. Keep the mind empty (the thoughts are the settled mud, the mind the pure water) and remain in the here and now. The time spent practicing repeatedly is the time to think about your techniques, to analyze their structure and such. In a fight, you cannot afford to do this, the body karma must be there and you have to trust that it will do the job you have trained it to do. If your mind is too muddled, your body most likely will not be as spontaneous. Without the physical training, your body won't become settled, or relaxed, ready to act as needed. If your mind is comfortable with your body karma, you should be in that settled state quite often, not jumpy or twitchy(the stirred mud).

As I have never experienced Samadhi, I don't know what leads to it. It seems though as if one path to it is through cultivation of the above as well as that of the spirit. In my opinion, Yi (intent) leads to Samadhi. If you have the proper intent, and do what is necessary in a given moment, your spirit is free of conflict (clear/pure water). If your defending yourself and you do what is needed to drop your opponent and keep yourself safe, it would seem as if your free of spiritual conflict. "He wanted to disturb my harmony, and I simply restored it to its previous state." However, if I continue to beat him down after solving the problem, I think I would now have a spiritual conflict on my hands. "I restored my harmony, and then maimed him out of vindictiveness." What if he's the only means of support for his family and now he's unable to work? What about the legal ramifications? Lots more to dwell on than if you just do what is needed (muddled water). I think that a 'free' spirit will be more likely to reach Samadhi than a conflicted one. If your mind and body are settled, the Spirit may have an easier time settling as well.


Wing Chun Kung Fu vs. Wing Chun Wu Shu. Nice way of making a comparison. Do people just practice/learn WC in order to fight, or do they practice/learn in order to achieve some greater goal, such as cultivating enlightenment? Just don’t forget that the ‘WC Wu Shu’ line still has kung fu.

[Hendrik]

Not to get carry a way with abstract stuffs....

Settling then Soaking.

Yes, Soaking.

Only soaking in ten thousand punches drill one will master a punch.

without that settling and soaking, the rest is not possible.
But soaking is not sit there and doing those empty thinking or logical derivation --- those are called unsettle heart or having false thoughts go around and around.....

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by Da_Moose


1
The Damo gave his pupil a focus to dwell on, causing the pupil to think of nothing else for a time, settling the pupil’s mind by providing the one point of focus.

2
Wing Chun Kung Fu vs. Wing Chun Wu Shu. Nice way of making a comparison. Do people just practice/learn WC in order to fight, or do they practice/learn in order to achieve some greater goal, such as cultivating enlightenment? Just don’t forget that the ‘WC Wu Shu?line still has kung fu.



1, this is totally logically correct.
However it is totally mis the marks. Thinking of nothing still is a thinking. ... Similar to force the physical to relax. Forcing relax is still an act of forcing. Thus, the mind never settle. This is a stirring of muddy water trying to settle it.


2, the Kung fu of settle violance, fighting, I am number one, hatret of Qing, and revenge energy, are the other types of Kung Fu comes with the immovable wisdom. That is the Shao Lin Kung Fu.