I can't find an art to suit me

[stubbs]

I want to find a martial art that actually teaches you to fight. I'm not that interested in the 'art' side of it at the moment. Every art I've come across so far has their own little gems of information but they tend to be mixed in with a load of crap.

Im not that big, but every art I've done so far, the instructor tells me how my muscle mass is my down fall rather than using it for my advantage. I want to get bigger (I'm about 190lbs at the mo - as I said, not that big) and the last thing I want to here is 'muscle is bad'.

Too many of the drills are unrealistic. I know they're drills but they should at least have some realism. Nobody holds their arm out long enough to do what the drills try to teach us to do. Some of them are really good though - and those few I will keep practising and remember.

I don't mind forms, as long as their applications are realistic or they are there for a set conditioning purpose. Otherwise I'd rather spar or hit the pads/bag. I haven't come across many forms that mimic how we actually fight in the style.

Muay Thai appeals to me and I'm going away for a month to learn a bit of that but it still has rules and it is a sport. I'd learn that if there was a club near me - but there isn't.

I've had fun with San Shou, but again thats a sport and has rules but I'm still gaining a lot from it.

I think I might have a go wing chun, but from what I've seen, it seems to be a bit too rigid.

I love grappling. I don't think its particularly realistic but I just love it! Again there aren't any clubs nearby (that I've found) that teaches it - I've only come across it a couple of times in Kung Fu classes.

I kinda want to find an art that lets you go nuts at the opponant to let you practise what comes natural and improve on this.....

I'm too knackered to carry on with this personal flame. I just get a bit frustrated with the 'mess' a lot of martial arts teach.
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[Nick Forrer]

mate

have a go at wing chun... but be warned, instruction is uneven so look around. In fact from what you describe it might be less the art thats troubling you and more the style of teaching...

your best bet is to go to loads of clubs irrespective of style, see how they train, ask the teacher questions (how do you deal with this kind of attack etc.), then give it a go. The style is less important insome ways than the calibre of the teaching and the kind of training environment involved

by the way, theres nothing rigid about good wing chun...altjough there is plenty of rigid wing chun about...as always caveat emptor

good luck.

[yenhoi]

Firstly, Id say that you go out and get heavily involved in some sort of grappling, even if it is sport related, as that sort of training will go a long way to teaching you how to use your body, be it large or small, effectively.

Next, it looks like you are in england. I dont have a link handy at the moment, but you will want to look into something or other called Senshido.

Some others will probably help you out before I get back to it, but there are some big "Self-Defense" names out there like Tony something or other, Darren Whats-hisname, and some Sammy-Franco guy.

Also, for starters, www.defend.net might be a good place to look.

:eek:

[Oso]

Nick has taken the correct and had a love child with it.


:D

ok, that's my first real attempt at the 'correct' biz...watcha think?
5...7...9...



anyway, good comments Nick.



stubbs: a mix of some good grappling and MT will go a long way in covering a lot of ranges. what you describe you want matches fairly well against those two...edeavors.

you sound reasonably intelligent, you'll probably know when you find what feels right for you.

[ShaolinTiger00]

Have you looked into mixed martial arts?

:)

[IronFist]

Originally posted by ShaolinTiger00
Have you looked into mixed martial arts?

:)

[stubbs]

Originally posted by ShaolinTiger00
Have you looked into mixed martial arts?

:)

there's a couple of vale tudo places in the same county but they'd take a while to drive to and i think my car's on its last legs.

there's some wing chun schools which are easy to get to and they've got a good reputation. i think i'll look into them. the wing chun schools tend to be quite expensive though so i might have to wait until i get back from thailand.

i'd like to move out of the area in a year or so. one place im looking at is brighton - its a nice vibrant city and i just found out it has this place:

http://sfuk.tripod.com/clubs/zt_fightschool.html

looks to have everything i want to train in!
________
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[stubbs]

http://www.kentwingchun.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/index.htm

thats one of the wing chun places with a good rep. they only have classes twice a week near where i am though.
________
Fisting xxx (http://www.****tube.com/categories/20/fisting/videos/1)

[Nick Forrer]

Stubbs


If you move to brighton i know a good wing chun guy there - not sure if he has a class at the moment but you can always ask:)

[mickey]

Hi stubbs,

Ever consider getting a few practicing friends together from various styles and developing your own "fight club", a collective thinktank that focuses on training methods, theories, and fighting (yeah, lots of fighting) that would be to the benefit to all involved?

mickey

[Liokault]

Sounds like you should stay clear of wing chun, from the discription of what your after.

The fight club idea sounds great though.


We tend to call them pubs in the UK. The training starts when you spot a guy that you think could teach you something, then you ask for a lesson by knocking his beer over. If you want to become an "inside the door student" and get a long deep lesson you tweek his girlfriends nipple.

[Shaolinlueb]

www.sammyfranco.com is a good link if you want to learn to fight. people bash him for his attitude, but hes pretty good.

[David Jamieson]

stubbs-

learning from anyone, any discipline will not teach you how to fight. What you will learn is a tool set you can use to fight.

Preconception is the greatest destroyer of forward movement in any line of study be it positive or negative.

If you are going in without knowing much, then you really don't know what art suits you and you can't pick and choose from behind a glass and think what might be best.

What you can do is find somewhere where you are comfortable with the people and the atmosphere of the club. The style or styles taught there, it is important that they are done correctly and that you will be taught correctly. THis is more often than not observable even by a simpleton. Not that you or anyone here is a simpleton, but good is always apparent and so is poor.

So, my observation would be that you don't know what suits you and frankly, any suit can be tailored to fit the person who will wear it.

You have the rest fo your life as well, so, if you gotta put something on, put on the nicest thing you can find. Metaphoirically speaking of course.

cheers

[Ray Pina]

At 190lbs you're more than big enough. You also want long athletic muscle as a fighter, not tight, stacked body building muscle.

As for style, that's not as important as finding a school that trains properly and regularly tests their materials against resisting apponants in all ranges.

[Chen]

It’s a tough call Stubbs. If you want to really test your fighting ability with out any rules, then you will continue to look and not find. As already suggested, maybe getting a few like minded people together is a better start.

You have to remember, most martial art classes are geared towards the masses and it’s very hard to tailor individual needs. Particularly when those needs are to go forward with a “fighting” head on. Most people do not want to go into work the next day with black eyes!!!

Ask yourself this question! What do you really want? I mean really want? Once you answer this, then you may be in a better position to find it.

You mentioned drills, yet in almost every class I have attended, Wing Chun and muai thai included, have them. Most are not realistic in terms of knocking someone’s head off, rather than learning timing and movement. If you get the attributes learnt from these, you will be a better fighter!

Keep looking though, and you may come across something you like.

Remember this though, if you keep flitting from one class to the next and try lots of things, the chances you won’t settle on anything. You will become what I call a martial arts butterfly. Flit into a class and then out again without ever really picking up or truly learning anything. Any one can hit a pad but not anyone can do martial arts. Be patient and good luck!

Chen

[Ben Gash]

"CFA is the most sophisticated and pragmatic self-defense system taught in America because it's designed to provide you - the potential victim - with the most efficient and efficient methods possible to avoid, defuse, confront and neutralize both armed and unarmed criminal assailants and to accomplish these acts in the safest manner possible. Unlike other martial arts, Contemporary Fighting Arts dispenses with the extraneous and the impractical and focuses on real-life fighting. "

Wow,man, I mean like I've never heard anything like that before! Where do I sign up?
The guy might have some good stuff to offer, but I can't take seriously a guy who has a ton of fantasy artwork and then starts talking about real life fighting!
Stubbs, take the training that's on offer (I doubt you'll find WC natural though), and then see if you can find guys at the club who want to work out and then try to find how it works for you. The classes are only part of your martial arts journey. Are you with Fighting Lions BTW?

[Shaolinlueb]

Originally posted by Ben Gash
"CFA is the most sophisticated and pragmatic self-defense system taught in America because it's designed to provide you - the potential victim - with the most efficient and efficient methods possible to avoid, defuse, confront and neutralize both armed and unarmed criminal assailants and to accomplish these acts in the safest manner possible. Unlike other martial arts, Contemporary Fighting Arts dispenses with the extraneous and the impractical and focuses on real-life fighting. "

Wow,man, I mean like I've never heard anything like that before! Where do I sign up?
The guy might have some good stuff to offer, but I can't take seriously a guy who has a ton of fantasy artwork and then starts talking about real life fighting!
Stubbs, take the training that's on offer (I doubt you'll find WC natural though), and then see if you can find guys at the club who want to work out and then try to find how it works for you. The classes are only part of your martial arts journey. Are you with Fighting Lions BTW?

I know a lot of people in the MMA world. and a couple guys knew franco since he started doing videos at panther products many years ago and he was pretty good he said.
judging a person on artwork. yeah its corny his site, but i guess its the whole vikin thing

[scotty1]

Stubbs, check your PM.

[Chang Style Novice]

I haven't read the thread, but have you considered macrame?

[Volcano Admim]

beer

[rogue]

I want to find a martial art that actually teaches you to fight. Go with a fight sport and don't use the excuse about rules. If you really want to fight then competition is your guarantee that you will fight. Converting fight sport skills to "reality" shouldn't take any real effort. Most of being able to handle yourself on the street is awareness and smarts.

[mickey]

Liokault,

Please, not that kind of fight club! The group trains together, developing each others ability.

mickey

[mickey]

:)

[Becca]

Originally posted by stubbs
Nobody holds their arm out long enough to do what the drills try to teach us to do.... I just get a bit frustrated with the 'mess' a lot of martial arts teach.
You'd be suprized at what a person will do. Any-who, if the teacher never has your opponant speed it up from just holding out your arm, then it is indeed a "mess". You also don't fully learn the technique. Once you get good at applying the technique on someone who knows what you are about to do, applying it to some Joe-Shmo who throws out sloppy punches is a cake-walk.

But put the blaim where it needs to be. The "mess" is the failure of the teacher, not the art.