Uniformity in students

[CFT]

There has been a lot written about how so many of grandmaster Yip Man's students each have a different style or interpretation of Wing Chun. Some put this down to the unstructured way that Yip Man taught, some say that he held back knowledge from certain people.

Ignoring these theories, I have a question for teachers and instructors of Wing Chun. I assume that you all have a formal curriculum, whether it is a set of rough hand written notes or neatly typed out electronic document.

So you teach in a repeatable manner and don't contradict yourself; the material doesn't really change in essence unless you experience some kind of paradigm shift.

Do the students you produce still perform their WC with their own flavour? Or do you get them to "toe the line"? What is the fine line between personal expression and the need to conform to the system as taught in your school?

[Vajramusti]

Chee-
no paradigm shift, do follow wing chun principles and dynamics,
no written curriculum but do have a pretty good sense for which skill development is necessary for another skill development to occur...
do encourage individuality and spontaneity of responses in various interaction and experiments with others.
Leave them alone as they develop their favorite moves but show them when a wing chun answer to a situation is better than what they did.
Thus if they duck once because they had no other alternative-there was nothing better at the time- leave them alone...
but if they duck and bob and weave all the time- I explain why it is inapprpriate and why it isnt wing chun.

Wing chun is a very analytical art and has its specs at a fundamental level but it also allows for great creativity.

But good teaching in any field should find the balance between
the understanding of the field or discipline and the adaptation and use by individuals. But some behavioral patterns ina wcteaching tradition is discernible...square bodied as opposed to slant bodied, fair ambidexterity instead of one sidedness, being line oriented rather than chasing hamds, seeing the open line instead of head hunting....
gotta go

[Da_Moose]

From my experience in the HFY Family so far, there are both sides of the coin. The Formula allows us to all practice the same technique in the same manner. I guess you could call it a cookie cutter approach, however, the formula also tailors the techniques to be unique to each individual's physique. The reference points of the formula are the same for everyone, but if I'm 6'0" and another student is 5'4", the techniques look different if one does not know what to look for. The formula allows us to practice the same technique in a consistent fashion over and over again without guessing the positioning of a technique. This is the science side of the coin.

The art side of the coin is that no two people will express themselves in the same way. The formula allows for uniform expression of techniques, but when those techniques are used is another matter. This is where individuality comes into play, using your favorite techniques in a situation, but they still adhere to the formula for a HFY guy. Ths formula is the fine line of conformity at our school. Expression of the formula is standard, what technique you use is not.

[Ultimatewingchun]

I get my students to "toe the line" until they demonstrate competence in the skill/attribute/principle/technique I'm teaching them...

and can put it together with other things they've been taught to do in a flow.

The real spontaneity comes out when they start to engage in free form chi sao/kiu sao, sparring, and wrestling. And even then - I will insist on their "toeing the line" when they make blatant mistakes and/or engage in unnecessary or counter productive moves (ie. - the excessive bobbing and weaving mentioned is a good example of this).

As to my notes/curriculum...I don't always follow the same formula as to what should be learned/developed first, second, third, etc...Due to constant research and development I've found through the years (and I'm teaching 20 years now)...that the curriculum changes from year to year, more or less.

By "change" I don't mean adding new moves to the forms, wooden dummy, etc. - the foundations and bedrock principles always stay the same - but the details are always evolving and adapting to new and different circumstances (ie. - the need to know how to defend/counter the various types of takedowns frequently attempted after a strike has been thrown to precede it - a common occurence in today's martial arts - is a perfect example of this)...

and occasionally there has been a paradigm shift in terms of basic fighting strategies (ie. - my belief in the overall importance of wrestling in-the-clinch and on the ground as part of the overall fighting strategy HAS evolved over the years from one of mild interest to one of now believing that this part of fighting is extremely important).

[CFT]

Some very well constructed answers so far; thanks very much.

[azwingchun]

I look at it this way, my Wing Chun is mine......it's what I have taken from a large group of techniques and principles. I use what works for me and my strengths and weaknesses. I guess you could call it my shortcut version of the whole system (I know this sounds bad, but isn't meant as it may sound). I hope this make sense to all.

When I teach my students, I give them everything, the whole system as it was given to me, plus anything I have figured out along the way. Then it is up to them, to shortcut the system and make it their own. Again, I know the term 'shortcut' sounds bad and as if they are leaving some of the system out, but it isn't meant that way at all.

Hopefully in the end, the forms will be the same, the training will be the same...but their usage should or better be completely different based on their builds, strengths and weaknesses. Otherwise, they are just doing my Wing Chun and not their's.

I also explain, that it is human nature to shortcut things, if I show them my shortcut version of Wing Chun, then when they learn it they will try to shortcut it even more, and this will continue down the line of student's students. So, they must teach the long version as it is taught to them and then allow their students to explore what works for them. ;)

[Rhat]

Originally posted by CFT
Some very well constructed answers so far; thanks very much.


I agree.

Da Moose and Victor are the posters of today.:)