Once you are on the floor ..

[TzuChan]

Ok, I've only been doing Wing Tzun for 1 month now but I had a rather bad experience yesterday.

I went to a normal party, but suddenly some guys started fighting, lame punches as in the movie, was kinda funny too look at considering even I knew how to counter and make it end in less then a few seconds :D But the thing that started me thinking was this : One guy just jumped on the other with his entire body (like in the wrestling stuff), so he runs into him making the other guy fall down, and I mean there was NO way to avoid being pushed for the other dude. Now once they were on the floor it was your basic "strangling" and trying to choke the other guy and waiting for him to give up.

Now I bet you guys have seen this kind of fight. Now my "problem" is this :

I'm pretty sure that after let's say a year of training you can already defend yourself pretty good with WT knowledge against the basic John Doe. But what happens when you get pushed on the ground ? And the other guy does those kind of wrestle moves ? Is Wing Tzun usefull on the floor ?

I'm just wondering if that's a weakness of Wing Tzun, or does Win Tzun have an answer for ground fighting too ?

Wing Chun is h o l l y

[kungfu cowboy]

Oh man, here we go again.

[Martial Joe]

Wing Chun doesnt have an actual ground system,but yes,you can aplicate wing chun into ground fighting...I have had all those experiences.


After being in Wing Chun for a while,I have gotten alot better at grappling,not to mention all the UFC's I watched :eek:


And might I add,if you want to get good on the ground or atleast have some what of an idea what to do...go learn some judo,wrestling,jujistu,etc...


I am wrestling in Highschool so I know what to do on the ground...


So in conclusion no there isnt ground fighting in wing chun but you can use wing chun on the ground...understand?

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[whippinghand]

There is ground fighting in Wing Chun.

[OdderMensch]

Wing chun does allow for ground fighting.
My sifu has shown us pictures from a book taken in i belive the 70's that shows a WC person practiceing kicks from the ground.

In our kwoon we regually study WC fighting to, on and from the ground. I have seen a bit of BJJ and it is not the same. I have seen judo and what we do has a different feel to it.


for the above situation this is what we practice.

1) use the years of training to keep a clear mind. dont panic and don't land on your back.

2) if you can visualize a WC forward stance (hal Ma) keep the rear foot in place and bring the hip to the ground, behind the rear foot.

3) i don't off hand know the WC term for this, i've called it a frame. It uses that wonderful 135deg angle we all know and love. one elbow on the floor one in the foe.

with luck and skill he will land on one knee and one elbow, then you rip into him with short range strikes from a well rooted ground posture.

I will try to find the name/isbn of the book and a pic of the Ground fighting posture.

so no its not a weakness in WC its just that a month of training is not yet shown you the full beuaty of the system.

[whippinghand]

Perhaps his sifu doesn't know the "full beauty of the system". Very few schools teach ground fighting.

[anerlich]

Just when you thought you'd seen every Romanisation under the sun, a new one comes along...

While you want to avoid going down if you can, it ain't always possible. If your Sifu can't show you how to fight on the ground (hint: the prevailing strategy s/b to get back up ASAP) then you might need to supplement what you're doing with a specialist groundfighting art.

Just telling yourself what you learn standing up will work on the ground ain't enough. you need to practise and drill it regularly as well.

[Sharky]

use this "wing chun groundfighting" against a bjj or a BAD wrester and you will get your ass handed to you. I hope you realise this before something bad happens to you.

My anus is superior™

[OdderMensch]

hang in there Tzu' Chan. WC takes some time, but its worth it. least in my dopey opinion.

Sharkey :

I kinda thought the point was that this was not some skilled grappler, just john doe tackler. no way to avoid going down beacuse you are not prepared for it, john might not even have realized what he'd done.

in this situation the one with the clear head will likely pervail.


Do not assume that i lack respect for the grappler. One of my classmates did/does Akido and can but me in a bad place quickly.

[JiuKaiMan]

Oddermensch,
What you are describing isn't grappling....it is merely kicking and striking on the ground. Wing Chun has no valid "Grappling" submissions or positioning, although it can be said that any striking techniques could be translated to the ground.
The problem, is that when facing a superior grappler, your wing chun strikes will be nullified. Therefore you will need a knoweldge of reversals and escapes from "grappling" positions such as being mounted or being in someone's side mount.

I suggest wrestling or some variation of submission wrestling as a supplement to Wing Chun.
I am currently teaching a purple belt in BJJ Wing Chun and in trade he is showing me some Jujitsu.
It will be interesting to see how it compares to wrestling.

<img src = "http://www.wingchunkuen.com/community/clipart/chinese/wingchun_old.gif">

[OdderMensch]

JiuKaiMan
a take-down or grapling atempt does not only come from a skiller grappler/ground fighter. As my Sifu says in his tape series (Grappler beating basics :D) "often the first thing an untrained opponent will do is grab you, and hit you."

At our school you begin learning to defend against Mr GrabYouAndHitYou at day one.

The origional poster seemed to be questioning if WC could handle this, being suddenly taken off ones feet and fighting from a position of severe dissadvantage. I say it can.

I not saying I'm gonna enter a BJJ contest and whip up. But if I do go down I will have some clue, hopefully enough that I wont use the "Panic freeze maybe try an eyegouge while mounted" reponse that seemed so popular :rolleyes:

[whippinghand]

Maybe YOU'LL get your ass kicked...

[Martial Joe]

Yeah whipping hand...try wrestling with a good wrestler or a bjj guy...you will get your ass kicked...

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[OdderMensch]

this almost became a rational disscusion.

Tzu`Chan

ever see the guy rush, miss and land on the coffee table? That also happens. Heck ive seen one dude thrown at someone, who was then imeadiatly and vicously clawed at!

Yes you might fall down, be pushed down, even knocked down. Yes Wing Chun takes this into account. No JiuKaiMan its not grappling, and yes Sharky I'm quite happy with that. :D

I'm tierd now, no more talk, sleep. :|

[Sharky]

"Yes you might fall down, be pushed down, even knocked down. Yes Wing Chun takes this into account. No JiuKaiMan its not grappling, and yes Sharky I'm quite happy with that"

thats cool then. no need to start ****ing your pants and start crying like whipping hand.

My anus is superior™

[TzuChan]

omfg I'll think again before I reveal my question to the 6-year olds ...

For the ones that did answer in a normal way, Thanks :D

Wing Chun is h o l l y

[OdderMensch]

Sorry if I was a bit quick on that last post. I broke one of my own rules of posting, never respond to negitive posting, even to point out its negitivity. :( I could blame lack of sleep, but it was my own fault for posting so late.

But do you feel your conncerns have been addressed? So how's the WC progressing anyway?

[rogue]

Then there's crap that happens in a fight that will cause you to be on the wrong side of winning no matter what. ;)


Rogue, you're an @ss!! Watchman

Adventure is just a romantic name for trouble. It sounds swell when you write about it, but it's hell when you meet it face to face in a dark and lonely place.
Louis L'Amour

BTW, did I mention that Rogue was an @ss? Watchman

http://rongos.com/funny****/Image15.jpg

[jameswebsteruk]

Who is that handsome devil? Is that you, Rogue?

"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running
around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music." ;)

[TzuChan]

:D

Wing Chun is h o l l y

[Sharky]

that's his sister

My anus is superior™

[kj]

After all this time I still haven't figured out your sig line. I just have to ask ... "Wing Chun is h o l l y" ... what does that mean?

Maybe I would know if I were about 30 years younger. :confused:

[Martial Joe]

He means it like J E LL O..but H O LL Y


I think...

http://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif IXIJoe KaveyIXIhttp://www.stopstart.fsnet.co.uk/smilie/lolup.gif

[Roy D. Anthony]

Wing Chun is a Complete art including Joint Locks(Chin Na), Throws (Shaui Chao), Arm Breaks, Ground Fighting. It takes a while to unlock these techniques from your forms and training, However they are there, this may also depend on who your teacher is and lineage, even in Yip Man Lineage there are Varying degrees to how much this Knowledge is taught and which sifus under Yip Man learned these.