Tony Chen

[Ravenshaw]

I know he's not Shaolin, but this question is directed more or less at Gene.

Within the next year or so I will be moving closer to San Francisco (for school) and I've been looking for a good school to train at when I'm there. I'll try to keep up with my current sifu and style (Wing Lam, Bak Sil Lum) but I'd like a regular place to train, too. Plus I've been in BSL for 4 1/2 years now and just finished Shaolin #10 so it may be time to expand my horizons.

Anyway, one teacher in the area that I am seriously considering is Tony Chen, an O-Mei master. Recent coverage of him has convinced me that he has real substance, which is hard to find.

Does anybody have experience with this teacher/his school? His website www.usaomei.com doesn't reveal much. Gene, I was particularly interested in your opinion since I know you have been with him for a while. What are the similarities/contrasts between Tony Chen's O-Mei and the BSL Sifu Lam taught us?

[cerebus]

When I first moved to Oakland, I checked out one of his schools in Oakland's Chinatown. The guy running the school spoke very little English and I speak no Chinese. I'd read articles about Mr. Chen, Omei, etc. and figured it'd be a good, traditional school so I went for a month. The whole time all we ever did, and all I ever saw ANYONE do there, was modern Wushu. The standard contemporary Wushu Changchuan basics followed by the contemporary Wushu Nanchuan form, etc.

[Ravenshaw]

That's dissapointing :( . I was under the impresion that the school was more traditional and I was most attracted by their San Shou (san so as they call it on the site) training and applications; I'd really like to see a good fighting school that uses kung fu...

Gene? Anything to add?

[cerebus]

Yeah. Myself, I was trying to find out about their Hsing-I & Baji. Whenever I would ask the guy in charge he would just say "No. Omei." And then we'd do modern wushu.

It was definitely one of Tony Chen's schools. There were Kung Fu Magazine articles on him in the windows and on the walls. The brochure has his pic and advertises like they're doing traditional stuff, but I never saw any nor could I get any info from the instructor about it.

[Ravenshaw]

I was kind of partial to the Baji, too. Anyway, back when Gene Ching was still the head Bak Sil Lum instructor at Wing Lam's school, I remember he told me that he was studying Xing Yi (or hsing-i) and I'm rather certain it was at one of Tony Chen's schools. I don't really know which one he attended though... Maybe the Fremont school? That's why I was hoping he would respond.

[GeneChing]

The first thing you need to understand about the Omei Kung fu schools is that while they have all been founded by Master Tony Chen, they are not all run by him. That would be tough with three schools in the east bay, one in Sacto, and another on the way. Tony named his schools USA Omei and not "Tony Chen's kung fu school" for a reason. Many teachers will name there schools after themselves here in America. It's a bit ego driven, and that doesn't happen in China so much - most Chinese schools are named about the tradition or location, not the headmaster. But here in the states, there's a stronger cult of personality, and more people market on their name/reputation. Not that this is bad, it's just American. Anyway, I once talked to Tony about this and for him, it's all about the promotion of CMA and that includes both modern and traditional, not the promotion of his name as much. Most of his beginning classes and kids classes are modern wushu.

Right now, Tony is only at the San Leandro and Fremont schools. Both schools have a regular staff of teachers, and Tony sort of drops in to lead his classes. I've actually never been to the Oakland school, so I don't know much about it. I've only been to both San Leandro and Fremont. And I've trained under a few of the differenct coaches, but mostly I train with Tony.

So as for parallel-ness to BSL, well, it works for me. Xingyi is often an important part of the BSL curriculam, but like the CLF, it's not a portion that was inherited by Sifu Lam (a trade off for the Hung Gar, if you will). If you're moving closer to SF, you're probably moving ****her from the schools that Tony teaches at, but there's plenty of good people in the area, so you should really look around in your *new* neighborhood. If you ever want to talk with me about it personally, you know where to find me. Maybe after you move and get settled....

[Ravenshaw]

Thanks for your reply, Gene. Much appreciated. I may well take you up on that when I do move, though it will probably be a ways down the calendar (and into the next one). How was your vacation, by the way?

I can certainly respect some modern wushu being a part of the curriculum... but how much of it is there? To be sure, I think it would be an interesting divergence from my traditional practice, but I'm still more interested in his O-Mei. Maybe the Xing-Yi, too. I have learned the 5 Elements from Sifu Lam, though I'm not very good at it yet :(. I have noticed the presence of Xing Yi in core BSL, though. I remember learning #9 and thinking, "hey wait a minute! That's fire punching!"

Also: as a school, how does it rate? Is the instruction level very high? Is it worth a commute? If it is very good, I would definitely be willing to drive some distance to train.

As for training in San Francisco itself, I might as well ask about another teacher that I've read about. Does anyone know anything about Zhong Luo? He is a Bak Mei and Dragon style sifu in San Francisco ( www.undergroundkungfu.com ). I've read some interesting things about him and I wonder if anyone has anything they can share?

[GeneChing]

Many of the basic routines that I introduced to Lam Kwoon were based on modern wushu. Don't tell the instructors there now, tho, that'll be our little secret. ;)

I'm not sure what your'e asking me about how the school rates. I train there. I like it. It works for me, but in all honesty, I'm a special case and always have been. What would you have me say here? If your'e looking for specific recommendations, officially it's a conflict of interest to publicly endorse anyone outside my own teachers, and even that's a bit marginal from time to time. Perhaps we can meet privately to discuss this further, if you like.

As for Zhong Luo, heh, heh, here's another fine example of why I'm the elder brother - Zhong Luo (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=131) - you just gotta slap the younger brothers with a move like this every once in a while.

My vacation was good - it'll take me weeks to recover from it...:cool:

[Ravenshaw]

Gene,

I read that article in one of your magazines. That is actually what brought him to my attention.

To be honest I was expecting that conflict-of-interest reply but hey, can't blame me for trying ;) . Or maybe you can... :D. But hey, aren't little brothers supposed to cause mischief? Anyway, I think I will check out the Fremont school pretty soon... it's only about 30 mins from where I live and if it impresses me I might go there sooner rather than later. Maybe even the San Leandro one... (by the way, where do you train?)

For the BSL thing, now you've piqued my interest. To which wushu-based routines are you referring?

[cerebus]

When I checked out the Omei school here in Oakland, I wasn't really concerned with whether Mr. Chen was actually teaching the classes so much as with learning Baji and/or Hsing-I from a good instructor. Unfortunately there was apparently nothing being taught other than the external wushu-based curriculum.:(

It's okay with me, I ended up becoming a member of the North American Tang Shou Tao Association and I'm very happy with my current instructors and arts.

[GeneChing]

Since the Omei schools are each run by different instructors, there is a core system of Omei for beginners which has a lot of wushu influence. That core curriculam is what is contained in the four O-mei videos we carry. Here's the O-mei section (http://www.martialartsmart.net/omeikungfuvi.html). But once you get past that, each instructor has there speciality, and while some of them do just specialize in wushu, others are quite different. The two instructors teaching xingyi to my knowledge are Tony and Dr. Johnny Jang, both featured on the second internal video series. It just goes to show, nevermind the school or the style, mind the instructor. It's not so much about what is being taught - it's the relationship between Sifu and student.

Ravenshaw: I currently train at Fremont on Monday and Wednesday starting around 6PM. Let me know when you're around - we could do lunch or something and I can give you 'off the record' info - for little brothers only. ;)
As for your question about wushu and Wing Lam BSL, it was the jibengong that I brought back from Shaolin that was wushu. I never showed the traditional aspects of it - I only taught it as wushu basics. Without that traditional songshan twist, it's really just wushu. If you want the traditional BSL basics, see Sifu's book. That's what I was brought up on. The last time I went down to Lam Kwoon and watched their jibengong, it was clear that they were still working it as wushu basics, not traditional shaolin. It's a fine distinction, because the gross external movements are still the same, but the devil is in the details and once you understand the traditional a little better, you can see the difference quite easily.

[Ravenshaw]

"Jibengong" meaning the Shaolin line drills, yes? After you left, most of those drills went to the wayside (I haven't seen anybody practicing Monk Takes Off his Shoe in years). However, since Justin is heading the program now (and since he also learned at Shaolin) he's bringing that influence back strongly. Can't say I disapprove; they're good drills. When Justin put together the demo team for last year's Open House performance, what we performed for the first portion of the demo was a mix of the Shaolin line drills and the 18 Deadly Hands.

Wow! What a coincidence. Before I read your post, I determined that if I were to go to the Fremont school, it would be on Mondays and Wednesdays at 6. :cool: I don't know when I'll come and check it out... possibly near the end of this month or sometime into September... but soon. I'll let you know when if I can.

[Starchaser107]

excerpt from article

"All these people from different cities came to pick up fish or rice wholesale, driving little 3-wheel bicycles to market, then to their shops to sell."

bi-cycle means two wheels.:p

[GeneChing]

three-wheeled tricycles is redundant and just tricycle gives the wrong impression, more like a kid's bike. or trike. but in reality, i didn't think it out that far. it was just a mistake. i think. man, i wrote that article a while ago, so who knows what i was thinking back then...:rolleyes: