Cramps

[Meat Shake]

For some reason, no matter how hard I train, seems that I just cant get rid of em....
Usually by the time Im working my heavy bag, Ive already been to the gym and jogged a mile or so, simply because I like to exhaust myself before "fighting".
Almost every time I work the bag, withing 3-4 minutes of steady attacking, I get a killer cramp about 2 inches below and 1 inch to the right of my solar plexus. I dont consume too much sugar during the day, I dont eat heavily before training, or even within an hour for that matter, and I drink room temperature water to avoid contracting my veins and constricting blood flow.
...
So... Why the hell am I still cramping up?
???
:confused:

[rubthebuddha]

dunno, but i get just about the same darn thing, and it's almost always during round kicks on the bag. answers? :confused:

[Tak]

Try changing to a different birth control pill... :-P


Seriously, a cramp in that area generally indicates (to me) a breathing issue. Are you holding your breath when you punch, breathing very irregularly, something like that?

[Meat Shake]

Actually, i exhale when I strike.
I figured breathing was an issue, but I have great breath control on the bag.
Jogging, however, is a whole nother story... I dont know why, but I cant find a comfortable rate to breath at when Im jogging, so if I try to go more than a mile, its hell.
...
I should say run, not jog. I sprint, then jog, then sprint, then jog....

Edit: But I usually dont cramp while running, and if I do, its on the bottom left side of my stomach, whereas when I cramp doing bag work, its in the middle more towards the right.
:confused:

[Ming Yue]

My doc told me that frequent muscle cramps and side stitches can be the result of a mineral deficiency and actually prescribed quinine.

quinine is in tonic water.

which goes well with gin.


I always listen to the doctor. :D



seriously, I started drinking a glass of tonic water before workouts and sleep and stopped getting side cramps.

[Tak]

Isn't quinine the treatment for scurvy? You spending too much time aboard ship?

[Ming Yue]

scurvy is a vitamin C deficiency.

:cool:

[unkokusai]

Eat more bananas. Your Potasium is low.

[Ming Yue]

both potassium and magnesium are prescribed for large muscle group cramps, like leg cramps.


found this in relation to side stitches:

Try altering your breathing pattern. Take a deep breath in as quickly as you can, to force the diaphragm down. Hold the breath for a couple of seconds and then forcibly exhale through pursed lips to restrict the outward air flow.

While excersising, breathe to your stomach, not your chest.

[Meat Shake]

Interesting.
Thanks for the replies.
:)

[Water Dragon]

How much water are you drinking during your workouts?

Try working in 2 minute rounds with one minute of rest in between. While you are resting, drop and do crunches to work your abs.

Maybe try jumping rope to get a little extra wind. Start with 3 2 minute rounds w/ 1 minute of rest in between. Just rest during the break when skipping rope.

Other than that, it sounds like you are not pacing yourself. Are you pushing yourself too hard?

Going hard is good, learning to pace yourself is better.

[FooFighter]

Meat Shake:

Muscular cramps can stem from several causes such as lack of water or potasium or quite possibly just poor performance. In other words, cramps is one of the physical signs of residual muscular tension (RMT). The cramp feeling that you felt in around or near your solar plexus after a rigorous workout may be from not knowing how to breathe properly or not knowing how to release unneccesary tension or maybe a psycho somatic condition of a previous physical pain? Have you been punched there before in a fight, sparing, and/or in an attack? My suggestion is to make sure you drink enough water, eat a banana before your workout, learn proper breathing technique used by professional athletes, and maybe resolve any past traumas in that area? I hope some of these suggestions will help you and please tell us your discoveries. Much success in your journey because your success is our successs.

Sincerely,
Bao

[blooming lotus]

I think it's a combination of all of the above. If your potassium is down your breathing will suffer because of the oxygen absorbtion in the blood that your heart can't pump so well. potassium is classed as an electrolyte as are other minerals and salts. Water is often what electrolytes are diluted in and neccessary regardless.

I like to do a glass of orange juice and suck on some lemons in the morning with my vitamins, because A. they both have a good potassium quantity and b. the vitamin c helps my iron to absorb, before I do a coffee and the tanin mucks it about.

Before heading out I'll do some milk or a protein shake for extra there and at night, or probab;ly from mid - ish afternoon on pending plan for work outs etc, ( don't wanna trade that cramp for a stitch) I usually flush with as much water as I can handle.....usually about 1- 1.5 lts bare min.......

potassium is found in highest quantities in Milk, Orange Juice, Potatoes, and bananas if you really must have the carb...............

[Water Dragon]

As far as water goes, I think you might be drinking too much. I tend to cramp if I drink too much water during in intense workout.

[blooming lotus]

you don't drink it whilst, the advice was for pre - bed come wind down period ..............you give yourself one o' those right????

Ps..... everything that happens in human body happens in fluid, most of which is water....... the human body can process up to 800 mls!!!! of fluid an hour !!!!!!!!! the more the better for smooth function of all organs............ providing of course you don't have a cardio sesh on the agenda............. in which case take an hour and some to absorb and prime........... ;)

[blooming lotus]

not true!!!!!........


I'm tiny and 200 mls , even during a serious sweat sesh would send me into regret...............


a sip or three mid sesh or interschange or is ample............. any claer fluid 'll do it though, electrolyte or not..............

ps: being an ex - pregnant mommy -to - be some yrs yrs back, I can tell you, cramps are absolutely related directly to sodium intake and ability to flush........... must you argue ???

[Tak]

200 mL of water every 10 minutes DURING exercise?!

That's a recipe for serious vomiting after about 30 minutes of a hard session.

[blooming lotus]

I still cannot open your links, and past couple of days aside, i've putting in 20 hrs daily, with paper correction, lesson prep and planning etc........... I suit up for the occasion, and I even do dresses.............. I also put aside judgement and help each individual as i can....... probably why they say I'm the best teacher they ever met.................


I don't understand you......... I've worked my as* off to be the best I can, martially and professionally...........it's a crazy life here......and if I wasn't so strong I might just cry..............

Please don't make me keep thinking about it, or I guess I'll just need to unsubscribe...................


My body is pained and so is my spirit..........such is life for a foreigner in China..........

let me off okay................


have no more to give...................

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by Serpent


The only way that too much water would give you cramps is if you diluted out all the electrolytes and sodium in your system, but that would take a sh!tload of water!

That' just not true Bro. If I drink too much water during a workout, I cramp up everytime. And I'm just talking about 2 big gulps. I need to take no more than 2 small sips at a time.

[rubthebuddha]

in this case, BL and WD are both correct -- too much ANYTHING, particularly liquid, in your stomach during a nasty session that involves a lot of movement is bad. this is usually discovered by people who don't hydrate all day then try to down half a gallon in the hour before a workout.

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by Oso
...anyway, there was so much crap to wade through I may have missed it being said but: are you talking cold or room temp water?

for me, I can't drink cooler or cold water w/o cramping. I think the cold water simply causes your muscles and organs to contract if you dump too much of it down. my first teacher was adamant about not drinking cold water during a work out.

It has something to do with your body needing to heat the water up to body temperature before it can be used. I'm not sure on the specifics, but I do know that it takes more energy to process cold water than room temp water.

And I would know. I'm the Water Dragon :D

[Oso]

WD, from my pov it's a matter of not wanting to douse your now 100+ degree body with 45 degree water. Yes, you will spend more calories (btu's) in heating that water up to your body temperature but in the question of cramping, if I dump 4-8 ounces of 45 degree water into the center of all my organs, something painful is bound to happen as that cold water causes tissues to contract.

but, as I said, just my take on it.

meatshake, just use a scientific approach and eliminate one thing at a time until you figure out what's causing YOU to cramp.

[Serpent]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
not true Serpent, i already told you I experience the same thing............ I thought it was standard knowlege that you shouldn't consume too much of any fluid up to an hour prior, and certainly not in excess ( more than several small sips) during a cardio sesh....... correct me if i'm wrong, but from your posts, I figure that the bulk of your work are weights etc.no???......anyway, cardio and excess fluid 'll make most of us cramp........... perhaps you're gentically ..........hmmm......different.:D ????


Ps. fluid ( particularly sugared or eloctrolit, preffered) in recovery by all means..................... go hard and do 2lts + if you can manage............just not pre or during???..........


any thing further to clarify Serpent??
You're wrong, but there's no point correcting you because you'll carry on as if you're still right anyway. However, for the record, weights make up a very small amount of my personal training regimen. I train mainly BWE and kung fu, however, that's not really relevant to the discussion.

It's amazing to me that people are talking about avoiding fluids before and during training. Take last night, for example. I trained 3 hours and had a 600ml Powerade and 750ml of water (mixed together). So that's 1,350ml of fluids over a 3 hour period. That's 450ml per hour, or about 150ml every 20 minutes, on average.

I make a point to stay hydrated all day, so I don't drink a huge amount all at once at any one point. I guarantee I'd have lost at least 1 litre in sweat during those 3 hours.

All seems pretty good to me. I wonder if the cramps are from lack of fluids, therefore lack of electrolytes and other salts? I'm guessing that cramping is going to be a bit different for everyone anyway, so Oso suggestion for Meat Shake is the best so far.

Now, if you gulp down large amounts of fluid, even 200ml, then go hard in a sparring bout or something for 3 minutes, then sure, the fluid in your stomach could upset you, but I already made that distinction somewhere earlier.

[blooming lotus]

no -one is saying avoid them, we're just saying in very small moderation. you skull mid - cardio and tell us you didn't cramp

[blooming lotus]

I think body temp and location has a bit to do with it as well.........

for eg: , in china , especially in the south it's extremely hot and you're on a constant sweat train, where-as in say Sydney, it's much cooler and so your fluid temp requs and how your body deals with it 'll be different. Much as I hate to admit it, bearing this in mind, Serpent may not be so far wrong after all............. ( well not really , but he / she 'll feel much better if I make with a half dis ;) ). Like we've said before, environmental factors are worth considering........

[Tak]

Odd, I was thinking earlier that if you're drinking 200 mL of water every 10 minutes (your original figure, which now seems to have been modified to 75 mL every 10 minutes...) and you're not cramping or vomiting then you're not working hard enough...

And one of the points of staying hydrated all the time is so that you can exercise for a prolonged period of time without getting overly dehydrated or having to constantly stop and gulp water.

[Serpent]

There is obviously a lot of mitigating factors, but as far as this forum is concerned we can only talk in generalities or from our own singular experience. I try to find a balance between the two when I post.

To back up my position, apart from my own anecdotal evidence already posted, here's some other sources:

http://sportsmedicine.about.com/cs/hydration/a/acsmfluid.htm

This is a somewhat biased link, but a valid point nonetheless:
http://www.gssiweb.com/reflib/refs/232/toomucho***oodthing.cfm?pid=38&CFID=664742&CFTOKEN=45538793

http://www.tahitiannoni.com/us/tahiti_trim/hydration.htm

http://www.ivillage.co.uk/dietandfitness/getfit/strengtone/articles/0,,255_157342,00.html

Tak - In response to your post, I originally posted a suggested range of hydration and then used my previous nights workout as a personal example. For you to take the highest amount of fluid and combine it with the shortest amount of time taken from my suggestion is deliberately argumentative.

Whatever works for you, bud.

[blooming lotus]

of course 3 hrs is decent work out, and we should all know that if you loose over such and such percent of fluid, performance declines. On powerade though, remember, you are also replacing electrolytes..... what ever you feel comfortable with "I guess. Will vary from sesh to sesh, load to load, climate and location etc etc etc.............


what was that original Question again?

[Serpent]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
of course 3 hrs is decent work out, and we should all know that if you loose over such and such percent of fluid, performance declines. On powerade though, remember, you are also replacing electrolytes..... what ever you feel comfortable with "I guess. Will vary from sesh to sesh, load to load, climate and location etc etc etc.............


Of course, and remember that Powerade, etc. is actually designed to not only replace electrolytes, but also to make you more thirsty so that you take in more water. That's why I mix it the way I do. Drinking just a sports drink is not so good for hydration levels unless you either mix it like I described or make sure to drink heaps of plain old water after the session.

Also, you must have had some drugs or something, bl - that post was coherent, on topic and contained only a few dramatic .....'s. You feeling ok?

[Ming Yue]

The problem with powerade and gatorade is way too much sugar - Serp is smart to water it down.

after a bout with the stomach flu one time the doc said Pedialyte ws the best electrolyte replacement fluid - low/no sugar and high amounts of minerals.

[blooming lotus]

I personally think the greater problem is with the salt content, and yah, it's not a bad move to go with dilution.

a flu virus is heat and sugar creates heat fuel and burns it within your body ... makes sense really, though if it's gone on for a while, I know many a folk who've really appreciated the sugar and respectively made friendly with a frozen juice all night long...............

[Serpent]

Originally posted by Ming Yue
The problem with powerade and gatorade is way too much sugar - Serp is smart to water it down.

after a bout with the stomach flu one time the doc said Pedialyte ws the best electrolyte replacement fluid - low/no sugar and high amounts of minerals.
Heh, she called me smart. *blushes* :)

I actually dig the sugar too. I often train for three hours or so at a time or many times through a day, so the extra sugar hit for energy is good for me. But even then, it still has to be watered down. Powerade without water in it freaks me out now - it's like drinking neat cordial.

[Frogman]

:o
I have learnt a lot from this here thread,,,,,,,,,, not only about cramping like the one I got in my eye for reading your “enlightenments” Yes, I think I just made up a word….. Please don’t call the word police. Oh wait, that is a word. You may all be missing one of the biggest points poor circulation, which may also have something to do with your posts.

Ok shake it off, 6 pages and now I have to remember why I open this thread in the first place.

I generally have a problem with cramps in my legs, sides, back, all over. How else are you suppose to find all those mussels, I mean muscles, I do drink water all day before during and after training. If I get to the school early enough and stick around for the late class I can be there as long as five hours training three intently, is that word, oh ya it is…………… I drink during training and only have a problem if I train for several hours, I don’t feel it’s a good idea to go so long with out some fluid intake. Usually I work out for two hour three to four times a week so it not a big deal for me I have also found that the best thing for cramps is tiger balm.

BL are those pic of you??? I think Toby is having to much fun with them, and if you are in deed the same person give yourself a break.

Oh man, I have trolled all over the place!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!! Need to go clean up. There should be a troll forum or maybe you could just change the name of this forum since it contains so many SME’s.



Good luck to you all, if you want to troll me you have to look in one of the other forums as I’m outa here…………………………………>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


NO RIBHIT FOR YOU…..
Yes I did make that word up.

:confused:

[Meat Shake]

Hey, this is a pretty good thread for the most part. Argue about pictures on another thread, I dont want this one to get locked.

[rubthebuddha]

i've received enough requests, so i went ape**** and started baleting useless stuff. if i accidentally baleted something of legitimacy, accept my apologies -- so much dirty bathwater, i was bound to lose a baby or two.

meat shake -- the thread is yours again.

[Serpent]

Bah, moderator scum!

:mad:

:(

:eek:

:p

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by Frogman
:o
BL are those pic of you??? I think Toby is having to much fun with them, and if you are in deed the same person give yourself a break.

Yes I did make that word up.



Frog dude: cheers babe. At times I don't feel half as ugly as they say I should be and I appreciate the support so just take that adevice and like myself anyway. Hey , the boys've gotta have at least one angle to say face on right ;)

cheers :P

BL

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by Ming Yue
The problem with powerade and gatorade is way too much sugar - Serp is smart to water it down.

after a bout with the stomach flu one time the doc said Pedialyte ws the best electrolyte replacement fluid - low/no sugar and high amounts of minerals.

As a frequent weight-cutter, I can attest that Pedialyte owns all others when it comes to rehydration.

[cerebus]

Sorry to tell you this bl (really, I am :( ) but the only cramps you have the qualifications to comment on in this thread are of the menstrual type. Thanks for your valiant little effort, but you really need to go comment on some other subject. Have a good day though.:)

[blooming lotus]

cerebus, I know you're 30 + but I'm 30 and 've been training hard core a grade style since I was 9 yrs old. I know cramp and how to avoid it. Put ting yourself supreme, still doesn't negate my experience. I dig you but, I'm not exactly a babe in the woods myself, so quite frankly feelin a lil grey today ...........................

say what you must ( sighs and leaves the room)

[cerebus]

I didn't want to have to hurt your feelings bl, but someone needs to keep you informed of the facts. Unfortunately it had to be me, but hey, I continue to sacrifice myself in the effort to keep you informed because I'm a selfless kind of person. Happy thoughts. :)

[blooming lotus]

always do, or at least get there sooner or later :cool: