sparring against tkd

[wingchunwsl]

i want to start sparring a little with my tkd friend. what should i do when he uses his high kicks? i know i could back away but what else could i do?

my friend also likes to do "tkd combo punches." what should i do to counter that? what about pak sao while moving 45 degrees and getting him from there? any help would be great. :D

[Sharky]

when he kicks high, rush in as quick as possible. will be hard if he's good, but as it goes on you'll be able to read his body language when he's about to kick - not just from his feet - it can be a dip of the shoulders, whatever.

anyway, if you have a mat, rush in and push him over, and let him fall on his ass. Then help him up, and continue sparring! You can sweep his other leg; once you're that close it's your game, but whatever you do, don't get into that "using tan sau to block a powerful roundhouse high kick" thing, as that's hardly the soft way.

Good luck, have fun, but remember it's a learning thing, not a fight.

My anus is superior™

[Sharky]

also go n read the footwork thread and absorb the info given by watchman and his digi cam!

Edd

My anus is superior™

[Super-Fist]

wingchunwsl,
Exactly what type of kicks does he throw? Roundhouse, side, or front? You could use a different technique for each one.

[wingchunwsl]

thanks for the info sharky. super-fist, he usually does combination kicks like round house, turning and doing another round house kick. he does side kicks sometime and once in a while, hook kicks. besides those things, he does punching combos.

[atsai]

countering kicks... (http://www.wingchunkuen.com/journal/columns/nguyen/opinion02_kicks.shtml)

<TABLE BORDER="3" CELLSPACING="1" CELLPADDING="1"><TR><TD><form><INPUT TYPE="button" VALUE=" Art T " onClick="parent.location='http://people.we.mediaone.net/arttsai/home.html'"></TD></TR></table></form><HR Width="97%">"You fight like you train." --Motto, USN Fighter Weapon School (TOPGUN)

[edward]

everytime your in your range.. walk in.. that's it

[Watchman]

Rogue would be able to give you a really good perspective on your question, wingchunwsl.

[whippinghand]

Don't waste good potential Wing Chun training time on the TKD.

[Super-Fist]

Walk in...? LOL Just walk up to the guy?!

[mysteri]

in order for someone to complete a combo, their opponent must allow them time to do this. realistically, u may only reallu parry 2-3 techniques before he switches up his game plan. your suggestion of the 45 degree triangle step and rush in is a good idea. the main thing you should keep in mind with each new clash is not to be defensive and wait around. but to rush in (with different techniques, or from different angles, so u don't become too predictable). if he comes in at you with combos, try to break his timing and counter as soon as you see an opening! dont even think about it, just go!!

In a fight you should never stick to principles; they should stick to you!

[mun hung]

It would be unwise to think that all other arts are inferior to your own. It would also be foolish to assume that all TKD guys can be easily beaten in a sparring match.

Walking or rushing in does'nt always work. The good ones won't give you an indication that they're kicking you at all, or kick real fast from the leading leg. Some will fake you first, and then kick or punch you. It is only one of many techniques that are within our arsenal that can be used against a kick, so don't depend on one.

Some TKD guys are really quick so in the worst case scenario prepare to receive the kick somehow. What you use is up to you. I was taught and prefer kwun sau for a roundhouse kick. Feel what's best for you thru your own experiences.

In theory - everything works! Real applications against a skilled TKD fighter can sometime yield negative results without the proper training. From what I've seen on this forum and others, alot of people don't even sparr or believe in it. IMO the only way to learn about it is from actually doing it. So go spar with your friend and find out for yourself like many of us have.

[Ars vitae]

I have to agree with Mun hung's comment's. Each art has developed and evolved for a reason and situation. Your techniques to defend against a TKD opponent should be likewise. Develop techniques which you are comfortable with and strengthen those you are not, then use these tools to react to the situation, with the emphasis on the plural. Each defense is situation. I've spared with TKD exponents for a while and note alot are not prepared for our readiness to bridge teh gap and stick to them, while I've been surprised at the speed of some tof theuir higher level practionsioners, being able to slow down my ability to bridge. :)

[Gluteus Maximus]

I agree with everyone else that the best advice is to get in close fast. If you can do this while maintaining your structure, it should be relatively easy to uproot him. One thing to try which should work when you get in there is a double palm strike. Kick out his support leg if he's still standing there on one leg looking like an emu with a sore foot.

If he tries his "TKD combo punches", use sticking hand skills to get through to his centreline. If you haven't learnt sticking hands yet, concentrate on: a) keeping your elbows in; b) staying relaxed (including shoulders down); and c) maintaining the integrity of your overall structure.

I'd be more worried about his kicks than his punching. Remember that his punching will not be generated from the centre like yours, since his fist is horizontal at the point of impact (try to punch so that your knuckles end up horizontal with your elbow facing downwards and close to the centreline - can't be done!)

Because his punch comes from the side (driven from the shoulder), if you're in close, he won't be able to put much force in his punch compared to you if you're punching from the centre (Imagine trying to budge a really heavy object. To get more bodyweight behind it, would you have your elbows out to the sides like a chook or held in close to your chest?).

If your upper body is relaxed and your arms are hogging the centreline, even if he gets some punches in, chances are they won't hit any vital points and your relaxed upper body will absorb the force anyway. When you feel any force, allow it to be transferred to your stance and be dissipated by pivotting.

Another tactic is to aim to get to one side of him (triangle stepping), and while controlling his elbow, punch or palm strike to his head, neck or ribs, perhaps while sweeping his leg at the same time.

Max

To know the unseen, you must first learn to see.

[chi-kwai]

There are a couple things one might do against high kicks. The most important thing is to get within the arc of the kick.

'Kuen sao' can be particulary effective against a high kick, especially in conjunction with a 'seet ma' followed by a 'fung gurk' to the opponent's standing leg. follow through with chain punching or whatever for good measure to make sure he hits the ground.

another response to a powerful high kick could be double 'jum sao.'

all of this is conjecture, and will of course depend on the situation. this is also by no means a definitive list of all responses, just some suggestions.

--
chi kwai

[wingchunwsl]

thanks guys. one last thing, i was taught to never use kwan sao to counter a kick. do you guys ever use it against something like that? if so, do you block it between the tan sao and the low bong sao?

[dzu]

Yes I have used kwun sau against kicks. Kwun Sau mean so to roll, so when faced with energy use the kwun sau to roll it and change the line.

Against kicks, I have found that kwun sau works best when stepping into the kick before it builds up to maximum power. The contact point will vary depending upon the kick, the height, and the angle, but suffice it to say, project your center through the kwun sau and toss the kicker or jam him. One important point with kwun sau is not to stand passivle waiting for the kick. The act of transitioning your bridges to kwun sau (tan and bong) is what rolls the energy aside. If you stand passively waiting for the kick, then there is no changing of the bridges upon contact and the full force will affect your structure.

regards,

Dzu

[mun hung]

Dzu - that was a fine explanation for the kwun sau vs the roundhouse kick. Especially regarding "rolling the energy" and "jamming". I'd like to throw some pennies at this also.

wingchunwsl - Is there a particular reason why you would'nt use a kwun/kwan sau to counter a roundhouse kick? Were you given a good reason not to use it? Just curious.

If applied properly, it can be a kickers worst nightmare when it comes to a roundhouse kick. It is also a real test of how good your entire structure is while in motion.

Ideally, the best contact points are your elbows (tan or bong) to any part of the kickers leg, but any part of the arm should still stop the kick. Rolling the bong sau elbow down into the kickers shin (like a pick) is a personal favorite for many in our class. The tan sau when used with proper structure (the elbow and shoulder just have to be in line with the incoming force) puts a painful stop to anything approaching that gate.

IMO - the kwun sau works great. But just like anything else - it's all in the timing, execution, and practice, practice, practice!

;)

[wingchunwsl]

i heard from this forum that you could use kwan sao so i asked my sifu one morning. i asked him if i could use kwan sao to counter higher kicks and he said, "never." i also asked him if i could use a pak sao to slap the kick away and he said no for that too.

[dzu]

Did your Sifu say why he felt Kwun Sau should never be used?

regards,

Dzu

[rogue]

Got here late, but what kind of TKD does your friend do? From my non-exhaustive experiences there are three main types, traditional which is very close to Japanese karate, Modern (WTF and Olympic) which is the TKD most think about when they hear the dreaded three initials, and then there are the TKD/kickboxing schools. Of course there are the McDojo belt factories but I'll ignore them.

Here are some generalities I've noticed based on my limited experiences:
Trad. TKD and TSD, at a good school the sparring should be about 60% hands to 40% kicks with most kicks to below the neck. Main weapons, lead hand back fist, reverse/cross punch, various side and front kicks, some throws and sweeps. These guys may be into some hardcore traditional training.

Modern TKD (WTF/Olympic), I've never studied these (outside of three days at a ATF school), but I do workout with people who do, and had one of my most frustrating fights against a MTKD fighter. The main difference between these two are one is a pure sport, the other is a martial art with a heavy sport component. Main weapons seem to be ridge hand, reverse punch and any kind of kick that you can think of. A good MTKD fighter will be able to throw a kick at you from any angle. Given enough room they're very good at controlling the distance. Upclose, watch out for them using Judo, which many schools teach with the TKD. These guys will probably be in better physical shape from all the jumping and footwork than the average WC fighter, so be ready to work. On the other hand they also expend a lot more energy than the average WC fighter too. A warning, many MTKD fighters spar full out while wearing protective gear with the goal of either knocking their opponent through a wall with a side kick, or knocking his head off with a roundhouse, if you guys aren't wearing gear make sure he has good control.

TKD-Kickboxer, these guys seem to come from ITF TKD schools. They may have the traditional TKD forms but are very modern in their approach to fighting. Will probably be good with his hands and use the more practicle kicks. Will use a lot of combos. Will be in great shape, may have some Muay Thai cross-training and will be cross-trained in boxing. These guys train to be fighters and are likely to train hardcore.

There are also the Hapkido guys who I've never workedout with, so you're on your own there.


Rogue, you're an @ss!! Watchman

Adventure is just a romantic name for trouble. It sounds swell when you write about it, but it's hell when you meet it face to face in a dark and lonely place.
Louis L'Amour

BTW, did I mention that Rogue was an @ss? Watchman

http://rongos.com/funny****/Image15.jpg

[BAI HE]

Most TKD guys are very picky about distance.
The round house and fast turning side kicks are brutal.

Make sure you have a good sense of your own range. TKD guys will bounce around, in and out of their preferred range. They are very fast with their feet.

I took an Olympic course in TKD. I feel the hardest kick to defense is the 45 kick. Its a cross between a front and round house kick thrown straight from the floor with the lead foot. It's designed to go straight under the elbow (defense) of the rear defending arm. They turn their hips at the last minute and drill their instep into the "floating" (ie: lower ribs unsupported by the sternum and breastplate.

It's a very fast, direct kick, but you can slap, trap and counter easily.

If he's a solid player expect alot of speed in his foot techniques.

[BAI HE]

Sorry, Rogue. I've had a long day.

[rogue]

Thanks & no problem BH. Many mistake Watchman and me for each other. :D

That 45 degree kick is a good one, not native to my style of TKD, but one I've added after having a kickboxer friend land it exactly how you described it. He learned it from a sport TKD school or fighter. A definate eye opener.

The guy that frustrated me the most during sparring did the bouncing thing, but almost always from a horse stance. He'd bounce, pivot and set me up for some real good hits. He had a weird rhythm, couldn't get a bead on him and man did I feel like a chump.

While I do believe that WC has the tools to counter a TKD fighter of the same level, it's easy to under-estimate TKD fighters of any style. Many of these guys train real hard, spar frequently and aren't under any delusions to what works and doesn't about their arts.

Working out with other styles is a great way to learn where you need to spend more time with your own style.


Rogue, you're an @ss!! Watchman

Adventure is just a romantic name for trouble. It sounds swell when you write about it, but it's hell when you meet it face to face in a dark and lonely place.
Louis L'Amour

BTW, did I mention that Rogue was an @ss? Watchman

http://rongos.com/funny****/Image15.jpg

[wingchunwsl]

i wasn't told why. i have class tomorrow so maybe i'll find out why then.

anyhoo, what are your suggestions for countering punching combinations?

[BAI HE]

Be more concerned about his kicks. By virtue of your art you should be able to handle any hand techniques he throws at you. Watch for quick sweeps in close, and use quick heel kicks to his shins to keep him from chabbering.

Open his door and blow him up from the centerline!

[BAI HE]

Chabbering = chambering.

[Sharky]

Watchman is a gun-toting christian thug - rouge is just an ass :D

Edd

My anus is superior™

[mun hung]

I guess you'll have to use your own common sense to decide whether or not kwun sau can be used. What does your instructor tell you to use for high kicks? I guess the only way of finding out is by trying it yourself. Good luck. BTW - when do you plan on sparring with your friend?

[Watchman]

I consider your use of the word "thug" in reference to me an insult.

I much prefer the term "terrorist".

Also, a more correct summation of my personality traits would be to add the phrase "knuckle-dragger" to your list.

Please make a note of that in the future. Thank you. :D

[rogue]

Sharkey, now I remember why we kicked you guys out of the country! :D

Ooops it's tea time!!!


Rogue, you're an @ss!! Watchman

Adventure is just a romantic name for trouble. It sounds swell when you write about it, but it's hell when you meet it face to face in a dark and lonely place.
Louis L'Amour

BTW, did I mention that Rogue was an @ss? Watchman

http://rongos.com/funny****/Image15.jpg

[Sharky]

first of all, my apoligies to watchman. second rouge - good job i ain't english then eh? Othersise i'd be quite insulted! :D Did you have crumpets or scones with your tea?

Edd

My anus is superior™

[rogue]

Heck Sharkey, you guys were so bad even the English didn't want y'all. :D

At least you aint French!

Hope Old Jong didn't hear that. ;)


Rogue, you're an @ss!! Watchman

Adventure is just a romantic name for trouble. It sounds swell when you write about it, but it's hell when you meet it face to face in a dark and lonely place.
Louis L'Amour

BTW, did I mention that Rogue was an @ss? Watchman

http://rongos.com/funny****/Image15.jpg

[wingchunwsl]

i didn't get to ask my sifu today. he was sort of busy cause he was putting some concrete tiles in his backyard with some other bigger guys.

he taught me to make like a hook kind of thing when countering a roundhouse kick. i can't really explain it.. but here it goes: elbow sticks out, forearm curls to body with hand right next to side of body. something like that. i was also taught some other stuff but i didn't get to catch it all but it wasn't kwan. the last thing i was taught was to just move away.

i'm finally meeting up with my friend tomorrow. i don't think i'll be able to do a lot of the things you other guys told me to do cause it's just a friendly learning experience not like a real fight or anything.
i'll post what happened later tomorrow.

[Sharky]

if it's a high roundhouse and he's learnt ANYTHING, and you try to block it with your pretty, unconditioned, wing chun forearms, you'll get them broken. Don't meet that force with force man.

Edd

My anus is superior™

[rogue]

Sharky is right. If you're going to try and catch a roundhouse one basic method is with arm pointed down at about a 45 degree with the palm up. Kind of let the kick slide up into the crook of the elbow, close the arm and you've got him.

Then you can just not be there...
Since the usual striking surface a TKD roundhouse is with the instep or ball of the foot, the other basic technique to counter a roundhouse is to get out of the way. This is where the TKD/karate back stance gets used to dodge the kick. Or to move out and then back in to counter, a pivot back and then a pivot back in works very well.

Try to find the WC footwork that'll accomplish the same tasks.


Rogue, you're an @ss!! Watchman

Adventure is just a romantic name for trouble. It sounds swell when you write about it, but it's hell when you meet it face to face in a dark and lonely place.
Louis L'Amour

BTW, did I mention that Rogue was an @ss? Watchman

http://rongos.com/funny****/Image15.jpg

[BAI HE]

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter!

[mun hung]

rogue - interesting block.
"Arm pointed down at about 45 degrees with the palm up. Let the kick slide up into the crook of the elbow, close the arm and you've got him."

How can this block be used to protect the head? A kick in the bicep does'nt sound too appealing either. Could you explain? What martial art is this?

Sharky - when you used to study Wing Chun, did you spar at all? Did you use any sort of block for a high roundhouse kick?

[rogue]

MH, since this move is instinctive to me now I made the mistake of leaving out most of the parts. My bad. This technique appears in the two arts that I'm currently studying which is traditional TKD and Isshinryu. I've also seen them used by kickboxers.

I had a partner throw some roundhouses at me tonight so I could get the moves right.

For the sake of argument I start out in a left leading boxers stance, elbows in at my side with both hands up at chin level.
1) My opponent throws a left roundhouse at my ribs.

2) The move is a catch not a block, so as my opponent starts his move my right hand drops to about somewhere between a 30 and 45 degree angle. This part assumes that you can read the kick and react to it in time.

3)As soon as his leg is above my arm the hand comes up trapping the leg. I find that I also twist my body to the left while this is going on, moving my point of impact with his kick and also if I have his leg off balancing him a little.

Sometimes I also can take a bit of the sting out of the kick by hitting his left shoulder with a sword hand strike (shuto uchi) to Lung #1, a palm heel strike to the chin or even just a hand on the chest which is what I do during sparring.

4) Strike, sweep, foot lock your opponent or all three.

As far as getting hit in the bicep it's not too bad as long as the hit isn't square on. The catch is usually enough to screw up the kick to keep that from happening. But there's no guarantee that you won't get rocked by the kick anyway.

Tonight in class I got to see good use of a side kick to counter a Muay Thai kick. That was pretty cool but you better have a really good side kick.

Against a kick to the head I usually just let it pass by moving back then move in for the counter.

There are a ton of roundhouse kick counters in karate and TKD, some easy, some rough to learn(depend on heavily conditioned arms).


Rogue, you're an @ss!! Watchman

Adventure is just a romantic name for trouble. It sounds swell when you write about it, but it's hell when you meet it face to face in a dark and lonely place.
Louis L'Amour

BTW, did I mention that Rogue was an @ss? Watchman

http://rongos.com/funny****/Image15.jpg

[mun hung]

Thanks for the explanation, bro! Maybe I'll give it a try the next time I spar. :)

[rogue]

BTW, step two happens very quickly, the hand is down and then up in under a second, and remember to keep the left up just in case you fall for a feint. I believe that you could do this move with all WC hand and foodwork.

It's hard to explain a move only in text so I'm not sure I conveyed it to you well enough, but tell me if you could get it to work anyway.


Rogue, you're an @ss!! Watchman

Adventure is just a romantic name for trouble. It sounds swell when you write about it, but it's hell when you meet it face to face in a dark and lonely place.
Louis L'Amour

BTW, did I mention that Rogue was an @ss? Watchman

http://rongos.com/funny****/Image15.jpg

[Sharky]

foodwork? :D

hi there. when i sparred at austin gohs i was crap at wing chun, and i still am. anyway, funnily enough there was this guy there who was really good at tkd, this indian dude, but a real show off tho. stepping in is the way to go. if you see it too late, try circle stepping into him.

ie, say the tkd dude is facing you left foot forward, and throws a round house kick with his right, you use your mad huen bo skills to circle in moving forward and right at like 45 degrees, and you should be in a posiiton here to do what you like with mr tkd. when i say huen bo i mean move your right foot first etc....

this is all guesswork tho, you know how easy it is to say all this in theory. your best bet is getting someone to practice with, that can throw roundhouse kicks at you (like rouge did), slowly at first. then you can build up the speed. then, you work out ways of countering it USING WING CHUN.

remember, if you sense it quick, just move in straight using arrow stepping straight into him and topple his blance.

but don't, at ALL underestimate tkd. as everyone keeps blabbering on, it's the martial artist, not the martial art that makes the difference, so if this guy has been studying longer than you, or harder than you, or both, then don't get disheatened man.

Good luck

My anus is superior™

[Super-Fist]

Hhmmm. So what do you other Wing Chun stylist do against kicks (front, side, and roundhouse)? This is a very interesting post! Too bad the other threads aren't like this one. Any responese are apreciated.

[atsai]

Do you train w/ sifu Gary Lam in Monterey Park?

<TABLE BORDER="3" CELLSPACING="1" CELLPADDING="1"><TR><TD><form><INPUT TYPE="button" VALUE=" Art T " onClick="parent.location='http://people.we.mediaone.net/arttsai/home.html'"></TD></TR></table></form><HR Width="97%">"You fight like you train." --Motto, USN Fighter Weapon School (TOPGUN)

[rogue]

Yes Sharkey, foodwork! I have seen WC people at the buffet table at Chinese restaurants and they are awesome! There's this other guy who claims his foodwork was learned from Yip Man as a closed kitchen student. Of course he was knocked down by some other guy who refused to wear a shirt.

I do trad. TKD and karate so finding someone to throw roundhouses at me is like you guys finding someone to do Chi sao with. :D


Rogue, you're an @ss!! Watchman

Adventure is just a romantic name for trouble. It sounds swell when you write about it, but it's hell when you meet it face to face in a dark and lonely place.
Louis L'Amour

BTW, did I mention that Rogue was an @ss? Watchman

http://rongos.com/funny****/Image15.jpg

[Watchman]

If you first utilize a Biu Ma (shooting stance) movement toward the kicker right as his hips move you'll find that the impact of the kick on your bicep is negligable when employing Rogue's move.

BTW Rogue, if you put Biu Ma as step #1 on your sequence then move the other steps down, you'll have described a nice Ip Ching Wing Chun kick defense. You sure you aren't growing out a mullet?? :D

A fun little thing to add on step #4 in your sequence is to slam a forearm forward into the side of the kicker's neck after you've got the leg scooped, then immediately turn your hand so you've got the back of the kicker's head - lift his kicking leg and pull both arms down in a double low pak sau movement (from SLT) as you sweep his support leg, which will spin the kicker over (sort of like turning a big wheel in the air) and slam him onto his skull. :D :D :D :D

To paraphrase a line from Apocalypse Now: "I love the sound of skulls cracking into concrete. It sounds like...victory."

http://www.wckfc.com/masters/man/Sec2-1.GIF

One is weak because he makes preparations against others;
he has strength because he makes others prepare against him.
-- Sun-Tzu

[TjD]

haha thats great!

its like something i've worked on in class before

you use the cultivating qwan sau from the first section of the dummy to take control of their leg, and then instead of what your doing, we turn the hand under the leg up and forward into a tan sau, and do a palm strike/ push (like the top part of a po pi), with a biu ma step... your structure sends the kicker FLYING backwards :) (usually into a wall) its pretty cool


does a mullet improve fighting ability? :)

peace
trav

Receive what comes, Escort what leaves, and if there is an opening, rush in

[whippinghand]

When kwan sau is done properly, there will be nothing left to do with that leg.

[rogue]

Hmmm, I thinks we're all on the same page. I'm now convinced that WC came from TKD. Does that mean we're brothers! :D

Of course a mullet improves fighting ability. Kid must be new or something. :D

Watchman, forearms to the neck are a favorite of mine and a great use of a lot of those karate blocks I practice, especially a rising block and a downward block. That move you described is very close to one I use, learned it from some College Boy. It's amazing how much damage you can do without ever making a fist!

Wingchunwsl, please don't use these finishes against your friend, but they're good in a street fight.

How often do some of you guys practice against TKD, MT & karate kickers?


Rogue, you're an @ss!! Watchman

Adventure is just a romantic name for trouble. It sounds swell when you write about it, but it's hell when you meet it face to face in a dark and lonely place.
Louis L'Amour

BTW, did I mention that Rogue was an @ss? Watchman

http://rongos.com/funny****/Image15.jpg

[wingchunwsl]

hehe don't worry... i'll try not to. ;)

[rogue]

Tell us how you do.


Rogue, you're an @ss!! Watchman

Adventure is just a romantic name for trouble. It sounds swell when you write about it, but it's hell when you meet it face to face in a dark and lonely place.
Louis L'Amour

BTW, did I mention that Rogue was an @ss? Watchman

http://rongos.com/funny****/Image15.jpg

[wingchunwsl]

well i was supposed to spar a little after we met up in church but he didn't have time. i'm going over to his place either friday or sunday and hopefully then we could play.

i'm sort of confused now about the kwan sao... so SHOULD i use it or should i NOT? could anyone else give me his/her opinion? thanks.

[rogue]

Try everything out, not every technique will be the best one for you. See what works, and see what doesn't. Then revist the stuff that doesn't work with your sifu and see if you were doing anything wrong.


Rogue, you're an @ss!! Watchman

Adventure is just a romantic name for trouble. It sounds swell when you write about it, but it's hell when you meet it face to face in a dark and lonely place.
Louis L'Amour

BTW, did I mention that Rogue was an @ss? Watchman

http://rongos.com/funny****/Image15.jpg

[mun hung]

Use only what you know and what you are comfortable using. It's better to use 3 techniques you do well than 10 sloppy ones.

Whipping Hand - "When kwan sau is done properly, there will be nothing left to do with that leg".

My sentiments exactly! ;)

[rogue]

Any vids of kwan sau? Or even a good description?


Rogue, you're an @ss!! Watchman

Adventure is just a romantic name for trouble. It sounds swell when you write about it, but it's hell when you meet it face to face in a dark and lonely place.
Louis L'Amour

BTW, did I mention that Rogue was an @ss? Watchman

http://rongos.com/funny****/Image15.jpg

[wingchunwsl]

hold do you post a pic up anyway? it says you put the url of the pic? :confused: i have a picture of kwan sao but just not sure how to put it up.

[rogue]

Wait until the entire page loads, now select Image from the group of buttons that are next to the smilies. also make sure that Disable HTML is unchecked.

Sometimes though weird stuff happens. Watchman for example keeps trying to post a picture of some great WC master (some Bruce guy), but instead keeps getting a picture of some old guy banging on his water heater. Why this happens I just don't know.


Rogue, you're an @ss!! Watchman

Adventure is just a romantic name for trouble. It sounds swell when you write about it, but it's hell when you meet it face to face in a dark and lonely place.
Louis L'Amour

BTW, did I mention that Rogue was an @ss? Watchman

http://rongos.com/funny****/Image15.jpg

[Watchman]

Must be a programming thing.

http://www.wckfc.com/masters/man/Sec2-1.GIF

One is weak because he makes preparations against others;
he has strength because he makes others prepare against him.
-- Sun-Tzu