Da Fan Che?

[sayloc]

Da as in Big?

If so, does the seven star stystem have a little Fan Che?

Is it just a shorter form with the same base movemnts?

I know probably there is probably another thread about it, I didnt see it.

Thanks

[MightyB]

Su Fan Che (sp?)

It's way different. It's a less repetitious form, and, in my opinion, it's a lot cooler than Da Fan Che.

[sayloc]

Interesting.

Thanks for the info mighty.

[18elders]

Master Shr will be teaching middle fan cha at his seminar in september

[sayloc]

18

There are 3 fancha's? little, middle, big?

wow

[EarthDragon]

Sayloc,
Da Fan Che, Big Rolling Wheel

Chow Fan Che, Small Rolling Wheel

They are 2 different sets, not a shorter version of the latter. The first form is named by the opening movements and thier applications. The small wheel refers to the throw involved and the movement performed in the opening, a small circular movement of power cuts and then a
Chuan Dang (firemans carry).

The second form is named for the second line and is also a throw Ma Bou Ti but much more higher and open, thus looking like a big wheel.

[MantisifuFW]

In HK Tanglang, Dai Fan Che And Siu Fan Che serve different purposes. Dai Fan Che is nearly all Gang Ging, breaking through an opponent's defenses or defeating his offense and finishing the opponent with Hoc Fu Tao Sum, the Black Tiger Steals the Heart , that has been discussed quite eloquently in another thread presently on the board. Dai Fan Che Choi also stresses the Lok Lok, Windlass Punch in a defensive, retreating mode but we also teach it in its equally effective offensive mode. From the perspective of developing the student's shen fot, the emphasis on the two primary motions, fan che and lok lok are excellent training tools.

In developing the boxer, Dai Fan Che's reliance on Gang Ging, the Hoc Fu Tao Sum and the techniques of Fan Che and Lok Lok convinced me of its value to the new student, though many teach this as an intermediate set. It is the first set we teach at our school.

Siu Fan Che also teaches the Fan Che Choi and Lok Lok in breaking through but combines it with threading punches, belly caving punches, phoenix eye fists, and the technique of continous rolling punches to give a devastating close range alternative to the Hoc Fu Tao Sum presented by Dai Fan Che. Additionally it includes a surprise leaping chopping punch similar to the Lan Jeet Choi. The form has leaping entries, fast pursuit stepping and even some unique palm techniques. All in all a very demanding and instructive set.

Anyway that's my take on it. Hope it helps, sayloc.

Steve Cottrell

[sayloc]

Thanks for all the great info guys!

[KickingMantis]

Mighty B are you Chris? you dont accept emails otherwise i would do this privately. Sorry all!

[yu shan]

I have learned Xiao Fan Che from Shifu Scolaro. A seemingly aggressive form. I have also learned Wah Lum`s Big Fan Cha. One of there better attempts and one of my favorite WL forms.

Cottrell Laoshi, can you explain this Lok Lok? Thank you.

[MantisifuFW]

Yu Shan,

The Lok Lok is Cantonese for Lulu Chui in Mandarin. Translated as "windlass punch" it the single large circle hand that accompanies Fan Che, usually with either a forward or rearward cross step in forms.

In application, the single circling hand can strike directly from above or below to the arms or torso/ head. Or the palm supresses while the larger circling hand strikes... Or the arm deflects, the hand supresses and the circling hand continues on to strike.

I hope this makes sense, if my writing is too unclear I will try again.

great to hear from you Yu Shan,

Steve Cottrell

[Hua Lin Laoshi]

A picture is worth a thousand words. If we can get some volunteer webspace maybe everyone can donate some short clips highlighting a few of these techniques so everyone has something to refer to when following the discussions.

[MantisifuFW]

Just a side note. Tainan Mantis, (aka Kevin) has done two excellent articles on Fanche Lulu in Mantis Quarterly this year. He quoted from masters of Northern Mantis, Meihua Tanglang and others giving their perspectives and some great sequence photos.

(I couldn't resist...shameless plug)

Steve Cottrell

[EarthDragon]

Steve, Kevin, or Robert

Question for you guys, I have seen this set da fan Che done many different ways and I had a quesiton about the ending as I have never been quite clear on it.
After (Jin Bu Lu Lu Shou), 3 circling open palm movements in movement 35, what do you have following this?

In 8 step the set seems to not flow after this move, or perhaps I have traslated it in correctly.

We continue with (You Shou San Chuei Shr) stealing hand straight punch

then (Fen Suen Liou Ying Tsou) reverse mantis groin attack

then (Lou Shou We Dou Chuei) block and straight punch

ending with (Chi Tang Lang Shuang Fung Shr) mantis stance. which in our form ends with 38 movements if you numbered them

This last part has at least for me has always been in question. One reason is you dont end up in the same position as the start, it doesnt seem to flow, and again it seems to be missing something as the 5th line is very short compared to the rest of the form. can any of you guys answer this? thank you in advance

[MantisifuFW]

Earth Dragon,

I am afraid that though I understand what you are outlining I have no direct knowledge of the set in the Eight Step tradition. My thoughts would therefore have little revelance to the actual execution of the historically correct set.

Hopefully others can assist.

My appologies,

Steve Cottrell

[RAF]

www.wutangcenter.com
video gallary--->"Old Footage of Wutang Martial Arts"
(in case there is no direct link)

http://www.wutangcenter.com/wt/mpg/oldTV.mp4

If you go to the clip "Old Footage of Wutang Martial Arts", you can see a bit of Da Fan Che from the 1970s as taught by Su Yu Zhang (8 Step praying mantis).

When the clip starts, you go through some calligraphy, the lan jie, da Fan Che, and a six harmony mantis form.

[mantis108]

I am of not much help here neither since I have not seen the 8 Step version, sorry.

Hi RAF,

Thanks for the link. There are some interesting stuff there. BTW, I can't get the oldtv clip link loading. :( Is there other suggestion? Thanks

Warm regards

Mantis108

[RAF]

Hello Mantis108:

The clip will download with Quicktime player. I believe its still free.

Let me know if you get it. There is a piece of a guy playing praying mantis in the middle of the clipping who has a set of the fastest hands I have ever seen.