Breathing exercise or Qi Gong

[SPJ]

Do you practice breathing exercise or Qi Gong in your MA school?

If so, how to do you practice?

How does that help with your MA study?

:confused:

[David Jamieson]

If you know some qigongs, then it is in your best interest to do them.

Many kungfu schools have qigong teachings. some schools work them in throughout the class and warm ups, other schools focus an entire class on them.

either way it improves your martial arts. It gives you awareness and focus on yourself in a holistic sense.

qigong and meditation will help your sparring too because it will impede adreniline dump and loss of gross motor skills when you get hit.

a person who masters both breath work and martial art and who actually applies their art on a regular basis through sparring or contact fighting will only get better and will avoid all teh presupposed occurances of adrenline dump, loss of gross motor skills and other detrimental factors to fighting that occur with people who do not work on these things at all.

But, it is a hard sell to many people and many people I have trained with simply don't have the patience to meditate or do qigongs.

Some can't even sit still for 1 lousy minute! 1 minute. yeesh! Is that too much to ask?

anyway...before i start rambling :p

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Kung Lek
qigong and meditation will help your sparring too because it will impede adreniline dump and loss of gross motor skills when you get hit.

a person who masters both breath work and martial art and who actually applies their art on a regular basis through sparring or contact fighting will only get better and will avoid all teh presupposed occurances of adrenline dump, loss of gross motor skills and other detrimental factors to fighting that occur with people who do not work on these things at all.

so, would you say that boxers, thai boxers, etc. are doing some form of qigong training?

[Shaolinlueb]

when your doing a form right and get the breathing controlled, your doing qigong.


cheers

[SPJ]

Yes.

Qi gong may be practiced by itself to massage all internal organs and make Qi flow smoothly in the meridians. This is to gain health benefits.

Qi gong exercise is also unique to each school.

In order to do certain moves, there are requirements to breathe in and out in a certain way.

Yes, Qi gong exercise is inseparable from you doing the moves right.

If breathing is wrong or out of sync, you may not do your moves right or last long in fight. Sort of breathing the wrong way, you may not swim far.

That is why in addition to Qi gong, I use swimming as another way to practice.

In general, breathe in when in defense or taking "hits" (you are shrinking your chest and abdomen plus positioning away from the attack), breathe out when you move your foot and hand forward to attack.




:)

[David Jamieson]

so, would you say that boxers, thai boxers, etc. are doing some form of qigong training?

If they are doing breath work then yes.

Martial qigongs are different in practice to health qigongs, or spiritual or otherwise.

They (martial qigongs) do in fact train the breath in such a way as it is used to maintain steady endurance and to work the anaerobic threshold.

Part of fighting in a sportive match is endurance of body, mind and certainly breath.

Extension training is also important. Qigongs often focus on trunk (spinal column and torso) extension, arm extension and leg extension coupled with breathing that maximizes extension (without violently hyperextending of course).

Stilling the mind can be done in any number of ways, but it is this focus that allows a boxer, muay thai, mma shaolin or otherwise to remain in the moment and to not be distracted from without or within while in combat, sportive or otherwise.

Many modern martial artists do all sorts of exercises to meet the criteria of raising and lowering the heart beat rapidly through breath techniques featured in anaerobic threshold training. Including boxers.

The terminology is entirely different, but principles are very similar. Much like how there are many qigongs that are similar but not exactly the same as traditional yoga.

Things evolved, I guess there is a touch of mystcism at play in regards to classical martial arts, but if you train diligently and correctly how could you not succeed? Anyway...rambling again. :D

You ever notice the opening ritual associated with traditional muay thai? where the heck does that come from? :p Seriously, there are plenty of good as new old ways left.

[SevenStar]

the ram muay? consider it a form - they differ from camp to camp and have different meanings. They all serve the same purpose though.

[David Jamieson]

I didn't say "what is it" I said "where the heck is it from"? As in, from what aspect of Muay Thai fighting is it derived?

It is often what brings the stillness of mind to the fighter. A ritual dance used as a focus point.

You know, in Thaliand, many people will bet good money on the fighter who's Ram Muay shows better spirit.

[EarthDragon]

We actually practice medical qigong, called Jin Gon Tzu Li Gong, it is a projecting qi skill used for medical healing purposes as opposed to martial, but in any case you are using your Qi in harmony with your movements and spirit, without these working in unison you only have the shell without the yoke.

[MMARULESonTMA]

Breathing is the low level of qigong. It can be important, in some styles, but it is the begginning level. Often breathing is done into the Dan tien chakra, at the naval, or through the qihai point into the navel chakra. That is a lower chakra. Martial qigong is lower vibration energy than mental, or spiritual qigong, and most martial qigong cannot be considered medical. As far as Ram Muay or Wai Kru, I view that as more a religious practice than a qigong practice. It was probably real at one time, but has now become ritual.

[David Jamieson]

Breathing is the low level of qigong

Breathing is qigong and is instrumental to it in all its forms.

I gotta disagree with this statement.

[MMARULESonTMA]

There are advanced styles with no breathing. The point is to forget the breath eventually. Breath is a manifestation of qi, governed and sustained by it, as are all things. Many styles use postures, movements, mudras and mantras.

[EarthDragon]

Often breathing is done into the Dan tien chakra ??????????????

I am aware of the area you are speaking about, just found it funny and odd that you mixed an Indian sanskrit word with a chinese mandarin word to explain the same thing?

There is no "dantien chakra". its either or

[MMARULESonTMA]

Dantien/ navel chakra. It's just that , while some qigong has an idea of all chakras, to call the third eye or heart chakra, dantien, I'm not so sure is correct, because while they are related, I'm not sure other chakras are an energy feild. So I think it's a good way to say it no? It shows the connection between them.

[red5angel]

bretahing might help you still your mind, but it's not going to give you super qi blasts or iron skin. Only good hard work is going to make you good at fighting.

[Meat Shake]

" The point is to forget the breath eventually."

:confused:
And float or what? You cannot live without breath... Unless you arent human.

I too do not understand the reasoning of your usage of an indian term mixed with mandarin....

Methinks this may be Blooming Lotus's more eloquently speaking alter ego.
:eek:

[MMARULESonTMA]

I say it to show dantien training is connected to other chakras. But to say upper or middle dantien, is not right. I don't know either language, but language has nothing to do with it, but definition do.

[Meat Shake]

If by chakras you mean meridians, then yes... But then why not say meridians?

[MMARULESonTMA]

Ummm......:rolleyes:

[Meat Shake]

Ummm.... :rolleyes:

I spend most of my time training on the mat, on my feet with feet and hands comming at me. Not sitting and breathing. This is apparently not my area of expertise, but by your lack of ability to explain its not yours either.

"One of the seven centers of spiritual energy in the human body according to yoga philosophy."

You are trying to relate this to TCM and rolling your eyes at me? 8 vessels and 12 channels.... 7 chakras.... Whatever.

[MMARULESonTMA]

Lol, I'm relating it to tianmu, the spots behind shanzhong or tiantu and such. There are many colorful names for such areas, but the best name is chakras.Bottom line is chakra training exists across styles, and aren't made up. So navel, or dantien, chakra

[MMARULESonTMA]

Originally posted by Meat Shake
" The point is to forget the breath eventually."

:confused:
You cannot live without breath... Unless you arent human.



Thanks for the info

[CaptinPickAxe]

Hi Backbreaker or KKM or Unkokusai or some other idiotic troll.

[Meat Shake]

Meatshake has now been convinced.

No problem for the info BL.

Edit: or as CPA put it, Hello KKM.

[MMARULESonTMA]

Hahahaha. I'm every troll you ever saw here, who wasn't really the troll. MMARULES on TMA, not in truth, but in evidence, what part of that don't you get? You reap what you sow, but what you reap will be, full, pressed down and overflowing.

[CaptinPickAxe]

Funny I never knew Boxing was a Traditional martial art. And when mixed with Shuai Chiao and other things doesn't that, in essence, make it a Mixed Martial Art?

Or does it have to be the tired old blend of Judo, Muai Thai, and BJJ...:rolleyes:

[MMARULESonTMA]

An MMA style, means the style is in MMA. Boxing yes, Shuai chiao no.

[CaptinPickAxe]

MMA means Mixed Martial Arts. Meaning peicing together the strong points (or ranges) of martial arts. Do even know what Shuai Chiao is?

[MMARULESonTMA]

There is no shuai chiao, that I have ever seen, in MMA. If you know something I don't, link up a site with one Shuai chiaoist, competeing and winning in MMA, or one example of it, not JUdo, being used at all in MMA

[CaptinPickAxe]

Also, when you break the elements of MMA down 2/3 are traditional arts. Judo and Muai Thai are traditional arts.

[SimonM]

At my kwoon breath training begins the first time you walk through the doors. As far as formal Qigong goes: There is a form called "breathing law" taught to very beginners. There is an unnamed breathing exercise used in the intermediate/advanced class and finally there is Iron Thread but my Sifu hardly ever teaches that one. I managed to wheedle my way into learning the beginning of the Iron Thread but it is not a part of the regular curriculum except for the very most advanced students.

[MMARULESonTMA]

The two( MMA and TMA, if you didn't catch that) are not mutually exlusive

[CaptinPickAxe]

Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't work. Have you ever sparred with a Shaui Chiao player? If so, who is his master?

[CaptinPickAxe]

The two( MMA and TMA, if you didn't catch that) are not mutually exlusive

Ah! So this whole "MMArulesTMA" drivel is infact you bashing your own art. Since the two are co-existant one, or one can't existist without the other, your are in essence bashing your own point of view.

If I read your post wrong, then please, by all means, give a list of MMA schools that are strictly non-traditional.

[MMARULESonTMA]

Oh, I do Chen Taiji, I've sparred good Pankrationists. Noone said anything about "working", only coolness, read my earlier post, and MMA gains more ground every passing day.

[MMARULESonTMA]

MMA is non traditional. Muay Thai is not a traditional martial art, by most standards, it may come from TMA, but is not TMA. I haven't met anyone who would want to associate Muay Thai with TMA. Muay Thai is a part of MMA, TMA's are not. Bjj is not a traditional art, but has been improved by Helio Gracie

[David Jamieson]

Muay Thai is not a traditional martial art

not in america, but in thailand, it is the traditional martial art.

when coupled with the grabi grabong, it is complete beyond just the sport fight.

like how san shou is not considered traditional but easily coupled with kungfu or wu shu training.

[MMARULESonTMA]

Originally posted by Kung Lek
not in america, but in thailand, it is the traditional martial art.


Exactly. You live in North " America"

Secondly, in MMA, a Muay Thai fighter must learn groundfighting, and admit it. It is a part of MMA. Traditional styles are not.

In fact, in America, TMA is starting to mean, styles that aren't in MMA but have been here for the last 20 years.

TMA= Styles that don't work in MMA

[CaptinPickAxe]

Noone said anything about "working", only coolness, read my earlier post, and MMA gains more ground every passing day.

Technically, my arguement is over. Martial arts weren't made to be 'cool' as you so eloquently put it, but to be effective in a situation of conflict. If you want 'cool' stuff then go take XMA.

The art itself is traditional, it doesn't matter where you reside.

[David Jamieson]

well, I don't practice muay thai either. :D

I practice Chinese martial arts. I also practice modern combatives.

so, am I mma? lol

anyway, just want to make note that celestial centres (dan tien) as are found in tcm and chinese concepts of energy wells and paths do not match exactly with chakras of yogic training.

There is some similarity between prana veda teaching and qigong teaching but they are quite different and have many dissimilar theories.

I suppose both work towards the same ends though ultimately, but then, that could be said of karate and muay thai and kickboxing and any martial art.

All the best fighters use what works from what they have learned and made second nature.

Kungfu and Tai Chi masters however tend to get really old when they train correctly and are still able to perform what could be considered rigourous sets even for young people.

Not saying this is the case with every chinese martial artist, just that there are quite a few examples of the benefits of tcma when compared with other fighting arts.

cheers

[CaptinPickAxe]

My god! you are really confused about TMA and MMA. MMA is a collaboration of TMA, kid.

MMA=Judo,Boxing,Kickboxing,BJJ,Muay Thai, etc.
There is always an element of TMA in MMA.

[MMARULESonTMA]

Originally posted by Kung Lek
well, I don't practice muay thai either. :D

I practice Chinese martial arts. I also practice modern combatives.

so, am I mma? lol


cheers

No, TCMA's are not considered important for MMA. They'r not used.

No, modern combatives, as far as I know are not used in MMA. Did you ever hear someone say, my style is modern combatives? No, it's BJJ, wrestling, boxing, and Muay Thai

[David Jamieson]

No, TCMA's are not considered important for MMA. They'r not used.

sorry dude, this statement says volumes about your fundamental lack of knowledge.

come back in a few years and we'll chat about what you've found out in your training path.

not to be a C@ck or anything, but I ain't arguing with you when you're coming with these types of egrigious statements.

cheers

[MMARULESonTMA]

Originally posted by CaptinPickAxe
My god! you are really confused about TMA and MMA. MMA is a collaboration of TMA, kid.

MMA=Judo,Boxing,Kickboxing,BJJ,Muay Thai, etc.
There is always an element of TMA in MMA.

No. You are confused. None of those are traditional. BJJ more than Judo probably. But do BJJers call there art "traditional"? No, it is superior to "traditional" styles. You don't know how many times I've heard MMA trainers, say " Yeah, Karate, kungfu, those are traditional styles, they don't work, unlike Muay Thai and Wrestling, or BJJ." Live in your fantasy world where TMAs are respected then, lol.

[MMARULESonTMA]

[i]Originally posted by Kung Lek

anyway, just want to make note that celestial centres (dan tien) as are found in tcm and chinese concepts of energy wells and paths do not match exactly with chakras of yogic training.



cheers [/B]

You don't like to back up what you say, do you?

[CaptinPickAxe]

okay...
you win.:rolleyes:

Judo isn't traditional:rolleyes:
Muay Thai isn't traditional either:rolleyes:

Good luck learning new things with your obtuse view on the world.

[MMARULESonTMA]

Originally posted by Kung Lek
sorry dude, this statement says volumes about your fundamental lack of knowledge.



Lol, I'm still waiting for one example of shuai Chiao being used in MMA. And I MMA, not old school NHB. The point is, the agrument of MMAists , is that , why do they need another inferior striking, or grappling style, to add to the sport.

[David Jamieson]

What do you need to confirm it for you?

the charts? you can find them on the net in a number of places.

look up chakras, then look up meridians, usually, meridian charts will indicate locations of the celetial centre, lower middle and upper.

there are also many charts that show locations of chakras, generally any good yoga chart will have them, though there is dispuite about how many there are from school to school. some say 7, some 9 etc.

[MMARULESonTMA]

Originally posted by CaptinPickAxe
okay...
you win.:rolleyes:

Judo isn't traditional:rolleyes:
Muay Thai isn't traditional either:rolleyes:

Good luck learning new things with your obtuse view on the world.

Your view is the obtuse one, in the real world. Muay Thai is not a traditional art.

[David Jamieson]

your scope is limited i would say.

you are arguing semantics about what people "call" things.

[CaptinPickAxe]

oone said anything about "working", only coolness,

Point.

Set.

Match.

[MMARULESonTMA]

Originally posted by Kung Lek
What do you need to confirm it for you?

the charts? you can find them on the net in a number of places.

look up chakras, then look up meridians, usually, meridian charts will indicate locations of the celetial centre, lower middle and upper.

there are also many charts that show locations of chakras, generally any good yoga chart will have them, though there is dispuite about how many there are from school to school. some say 7, some 9 etc.

There are generally 7 main ones. The colors follow rainbow colors in both qigong, and Yoga. They are the same.

[CaptinPickAxe]

world

Ever wonder why the listen to the funny music while stretching in Muay Thai?

Yeah...thats tradition.

[Meat Shake]

"An MMA style, means the style is in MMA. "

You are ****ing retarded.

MMA = Mixed Martial Arts.
Simply that. Jujitsu = TMA, Karate = TMA, Muay Thai = TMA, Greco Roman = TMA.... TMA + TMA = MMA.
Just let me know if that formula is over your head.

As for shuai chiao and MMA... No shuai chiao fighter has ever fought in an MMA competition. Does this say anything as for the validity of the art? No. Do we consider ourselves part of the MMA training camp? For the most part yes. We do not stick to straight shuai chiao, we also train against the shoot, and train on the ground as well. Ground fighting, or BJJ, + shuai chiao + a little bit of boxing and muay thai Ive picked up along the way = MMA. Dip****.

[MMARULESonTMA]

Originally posted by Kung Lek
your scope is limited i would say.

you are arguing semantics about what people "call" things.

No. Not people. But the perception of the real world, as well as the MMA world.

[David Jamieson]

There are generally 7 main ones. The colors follow rainbow colors in both qigong, and Yoga. They are the same.

No, they are not.

seriously, do you even practice either???

Hatha yoga ayer vedic indicates 7

Kundalini indicates 9

both ascribe to multiple smaller "vortexes"

tibetan and indian are different but use same sanskrit.

Qigong on the other hand developed independently of Yoga and so the internal is described as a different map.

[MMARULESonTMA]

Originally posted by Meat Shake
"An MMA style, means the style is in MMA. "

You are ****ing retarded.

MMA = Mixed Martial Arts.
Simply that. Jujitsu = TMA, Karate = TMA, Muay Thai = TMA, Greco Roman = TMA.... TMA + TMA = MMA.


As for shuai chiao and MMA... No shuai chiao fighter has ever fought in an MMA competition. Does this say anything as for the validity of the art? No. it.

It says MMA rules on Schuai Chiao, and TMA. That's the precedent set.

No, those are not traditional arts. BJJ is not considered a TMA, Dip****.

[CaptinPickAxe]

what about the rest that is used to compile MMA?

[David Jamieson]

bjj is a modification of trad japanese jujitsu.

so, is there anything new in it or is it just carried forward differently? Like a branch on a tree, it is it's own branch, but same tree.

man, guys lets not name call, lets set the one who bears the inflammatory name straight. :D

[MMARULESonTMA]

Originally posted by Kung Lek
No, they are not.

seriously, do you even practice either???

Yes. Wild goose qigong, Damo gong, Qimen buddha school qigong, some Quanyin, Taiji, and Yoga. They are the same, or not really chakras. The chakras follow rainbow colors up the center of the body. Rainbow light. You don't know what you're talking about then. If what you call a chakra, is not what I call a chakra, what you call a chakra is still in the system. But Bai Hui point is not a real chakra. And the idea of 3 dantiens is also, not correct. There is one dantien

[MMARULESonTMA]

Originally posted by CaptinPickAxe
what about the rest that is used to compile MMA?

Boxing, wrestling, BJJ, Muay Thai. They are not TMA.

[CaptinPickAxe]

AHHH! BACKBREAKER!
Still on the HGH?

[David Jamieson]

it's atlantis guy!

he's back...

I thought you were banned dude?

[CaptinPickAxe]

KL, its useless. All the Falun Gong has poisoned his fragile little mind.

[MMARULESonTMA]

Originally posted by Kung Lek


Qigong on the other hand developed independently of Yoga and so the internal is described as a different map.

No, it is not different

[MMARULESonTMA]

Originally posted by CaptinPickAxe
KL, its useless. All the Falun Gong has poisoned his fragile little mind.

You guys are idiots, and you don't know what you're talking about. Chakras have the same fuction across styles.

[CaptinPickAxe]

:rolleyes:
right serious harm. Did Falun Dafa teach you that? Thats why Falun Gong is so detrimental...

[David Jamieson]

You guys are idiots

yeah that's gonna win you some points.

Hey everybody, lets all kow tow to this guy apparently we've been collectively practicing wrong for all these years!

hurry or you can't get into the lineup to bow!


hurry!

:D

[CaptinPickAxe]

I have a bad back from the weight of all this bullsh!t...no bowing today:D

[David Jamieson]

well, back to the crystal cave then!

[MMARULESonTMA]

Originally posted by CaptinPickAxe
:rolleyes:
right serious harm. Did Falun Dafa teach you that? Thats why Falun Gong is so detrimental...

No, I can see for myself. But Falun Dafa has some good info on what is the same. There are 7 chakras, the rest are sub chakras, or not really chakras. Like there is only one dantien, or energy field, NOT 3. But it is a chakra. The orange chakra, and that's in qigong and Yoga.

[David Jamieson]

but what about the Hara?

where does that fit? lol

[MMARULESonTMA]

I don't know. Solar plexus chakra? Orange is behind navel, yellow at solar plexus. One chakra can help maintain, the enrgy of the one below it. If the enrgy is very strong at the nave the higher one can keep it under control, and create an immortal embryo, of vibration.

[CaptinPickAxe]

well, back to the crystal cave then!

You're just jealous, KL, because I get to hang out with Steven Segal in the Crystal Cave! And he sings there too!:D

I'm sorry, but I refuse to listen to a Falun Gong practioner trying to tell me about "proper Qigong".

You know how everyone feels about it, backbr...er...SeriousHarm

[MMARULESonTMA]

Originally posted by CaptinPickAxe


I'm sorry, but I refuse to listen to a Falun Gong practioner trying to tell me about "proper Qigong".

You know how everyone feels about it, backbr...er...SeriousHarm

Then you no nothing about qigong. And think it's about breathing.

[CaptinPickAxe]

LOL!

Hookay.

Nice chattin' with ya, chief.

And for the record, give up the act Backbreaker aka Serious Harm aka some other brainless propaganda machine.

Hey, you still on the Human Growth Hormone?

[MMARULESonTMA]

Act? I'm simply presenting you with correct info, and there's a huge lack of that on this site.

[CaptinPickAxe]

I would definitly take the guy floating on a lotus seriously (http://www.randi.org/jr/08-03-01.html)

[CaptinPickAxe]

so you are backbreaker?

[David Jamieson]

two words:

first word:

Patrick

second word:

Duffy


that is all :D

[CaptinPickAxe]

I must have to be Canadian to get that one:p

Just playin', KL

[MMARULESonTMA]

Complete nonsenese-

1. If you beleive them, you beleive all qigong, as well as qi, is a superstition

2. No proof Li Hongzhi changed his birth date

3. " to ignore doctors". That's bull****. Now you should not accept things blindly, no matter who tells you, but Master Li says, " if you think you have diseases, you should go to a hospital.

4. Sucking wealth from disciples id BULL****! Falun gong is free! And you don't have to ever meet Master Li. You don't have to travel anywhere even to learn.

5. Sima Nam claims to have exposed falun gong tricks. Bull****, he never states what those tricks are, as there are no tricks in Falun Dafa.

An article based on ignorance. And you show you know nothing of qigong if you think an image of sitting ofn a lotus leaf or flower isn't a real visualisation in all qigong.

[MMARULESonTMA]

I don't know any backbreaker, I do know someone banned from here though

[CaptinPickAxe]

Funny,
Then why does the Falun Gong book cost $20?

I shouldn't listen to just anybody? Shouldn't you heed your own warning?


An article based on ignorance
Nononononono! An article based on science. For an MMA guy you sure do belive a lot of TMA mumbojumbo

[CaptinPickAxe]

How about anyone banned from Bullshido? Was he SeriousHarm?

I have the sneaking suspicion you and Backbreaker are one in the same.

[CaptinPickAxe]

The major concern in China that is related to JREF work, is the powerful Falun Gong religious sect who are being bamboozled by a guru who claims he's a god. This man, Li Hongzhi, preaches an anti-science, antisocial, mystical philosophy to an estimated two million persons in China. Though only active for a few years, Li has attracted these fanatical followers through claims that he can move objects, become invisible, walk through walls, and levitate among other miracles. The government of China, in July of this year, declared Falun Gong to be illegal, and put out an arrest warrant for Li with Interpol. He is said to be presently living in the USA. It is believed that over 1400 persons have died as a direct result of following Falun Gong, either by refusing medical care or by committing suicide, which Li's disciples refer to as "achieving merit." A book titled, "Li Hongzhi & His Falun Gong Deceiving the Public and Ruining Lives," outlines simply atrocious acts carried out by members of the cult, on themselves and on their families. Asked my opinion on how the group should be treated, and knowing that the government had pursued and jailed some of the more active members, I said that I much preferred education over legislation. It was a difficult situation to be in, since I could not take a political stance on behalf of JREF, and in any case would not do so lest I offend my hosts.

From http://www.randi.org/jr/11-30-1999.html

[MMARULESonTMA]

Serious harm I don't think is banned. You don't know backbreaker is just one person.

As far as you science, you're an idiot. Yeah, exposing Jim Jones, scientifically debunks falun gong. Lol. You don't know science either huh? Where's the evidence? What tricks have been exposed, oh yeah, none, or they would have mentioned them

[MMARULESonTMA]

Okay. You prove Randi is unscientific.

"It is beleived that 1400 people have died". So Randi uses chinese government propaganda whaen it suits him, but he doesn't beleive in anything else they say, and does not accept their research on qi, except when it suits him

I suggest you actually read ZFalun Dafa teachings. Because you're a complete moron if you don't know that suicide is a sin. Period. Your article lies.

[CaptinPickAxe]

oops!
The HGH must be kicking in eh, Serious Harm?
I know they are one in the same because they:

A. Spout the same crap

B. Have the same Martial background (strange so do you...)

C. ADMITTED IT HIMSELF! (or did you already forget that BB?)

[MMARULESonTMA]

You are spreading misinformation and lies, and call it scientific.

[David Jamieson]

patrick duffy was the man from atlantis in an old tv series

[MMARULESonTMA]

" which Li's disciples refer to as ' achieving merit' ", is completely unscientific and a straight out lie. If you beleive that , you're the idiot.

[CaptinPickAxe]

You are spreading misinformation and lies

Wow! Me and your teacher have a lot in common!

[MMARULESonTMA]

Nonsense. Falun gong is very in depth, advanced qigong, and the teachings can be confirmed by other high level teachings, which were secret until this millenium and not taught publically. There's nothing in falun gong that's bull**** like what you posted.

****, I wann go back to the frickin EF!:rolleyes:

[CaptinPickAxe]

Yes, but is practicing made up Qigong detrimental?
If Li Hongzhi is god then maybe I'd practice his made up qigong...If i was drunk...and drugged...and just had a labotomy.

[MMARULESonTMA]

You're an idiot. You don't know anything about qigong. And the practice can be confirmed, now in the information age, and can be compared to other real qigong. THERE IS NO BASIS FOR ANYONE TO SAY FALUN DAFA IS MADE UP. None

[CaptinPickAxe]

where did the moves come from?

[David Jamieson]

THERE IS NO BASIS FOR ANYONE TO SAY FALUN DAFA IS MADE UP. None

I dunno, the grey aliens seem to want to distance themselves from Li. They think he's a bit out there.

Now coming from a grey alien, I would say that's worth at least a dollar!

[MMARULESonTMA]

Falun Gong comes from Falun Dafa. By experience in Wild goose, Qimen qigong, and Quanyin. I would say it is almost certainly originally practiced by monks( all those styles visualise a predecessor master as a onk, or trace their lineage to monks). Either from Buddha himself, a different previous older Buddha from before that, or through Kunlun mountain range to China. With all the same principles of 5 cycles, and 10 directions. Sometimes a style goes from the monastery, to a family somehow, so it's possible it's family style, originally practiced by monks though.

[CaptinPickAxe]

so its stolen?
I thought monks practiced real Qigong....BOY! was I wrong...I feel like a horses ass

[MMARULESonTMA]

No, that doesn't mean it's stolen:rolleyes: It means at some point a monk left, or had to leave a monastery, for either worldy physical reasons, or a spiritual mission.

[CaptinPickAxe]

Yes, but he took it from several different types of Qigong...
Who knows if he took ones that corralate to each other. This is how it could be detrimental...

With you fasination of looking cool and such, maybe Li Hongzhi thought the same and just grabbed a bunch of random "cool looking" crap and said that he got it from heaven or aliens or some other erronious source

[MMARULESonTMA]

All Falun practitioners know, because it's explained in detail.:rolleyes:

[CaptinPickAxe]

Why don't explain to all of us "Falun-Ignorant" people...

or is it too secret and deadly?

[CaptinPickAxe]

on second thought...save it...I don't really care.

I've had enough fun ****in' on you today

[MMARULESonTMA]

Originally posted by CaptinPickAxe
Why don't explain to all of us "Falun-Ignorant" people...

or is it too secret and deadly?

It would take too much time. What do you wanna know?

Here. I'll explain. Buddha=Myth , Jesus= Myth, Atlantis= Some say Myth, but was wwritten about by Plato. Is your MA as old as Plato?
Boddhidharma= Myth

Falun Dafa= Real! Li Hongzhi= Real

[MMARULESonTMA]

Lol:D

I cannot see how qigong doesn't have all chakras, and is absolutely necessarily, just chinese culturally created.


This shows clear chakras, as well as 4 directions (http://www.threegeese.com/NewFiles/wg9demo.html)

I think rolloing hands, to dantien chakra, is tibetan rolling hands.

View "introduction sequence" to see where falun gong comes from, and view chakra cultivation (http://www.falundafa.org/eng/media.htm)

http://www.threegeese.com/NewFiles/wg7demo.html

Mingmen is in Yoga

Tibetan Yoga (http://www.yoga-tibet.com/)

So what I think is, if you practice a set that cultivates spiral energy internall in your body, and externally the North and South poles, like in Qigong or Taiji, Who is really to say that it's really YinYang qigong, I chinese person! But someone else calls it, kundalini.

Seriosly, everything is about chakras, mudras, mantras, chanting, are cultivating chakras

[MMARULESonTMA]

ALL IS VIBRATION (http://www.wellnessgoods.com/messages.asp)

[David Jamieson]

heard about the water guy on the newsblabber the other day.

pretty interesting spin on hippy scientist :D

seriously, all joking aside. Interesting...mind you the hindus believe water is god already...anyway.

[cerebus]

News flash for you crackslapper, I mean buttsniffer, uh I mean backbreaker, when Plato spoke of Atlantis he was using it as a hypothetical utopian idea to convey a point. He did not believe in the physical reality of Atlantis himself.

You've never actually read the works of Plato, have you? You're just going by what someone told you or what you read in some looney tooney Atlantis Chi Gung book, aren't you?

Yeah, that's what I thought.

[CaptinPickAxe]

Here. I'll explain. Buddha=Myth , Jesus= Myth, Atlantis= Some say Myth, but was wwritten about by Plato. Is your MA as old as Plato?
Falun Dafa=Real Li Hongzhi=Real

Wow! so it really is a cult! Thanks for clearing that up, backbreaker.

Also, If all the other religions are wrong then I guess we could forget the notion that Falun Qigong came from a Buddhist monk.

And honestly, spare me the whole "I'm not backbreaker/seriousharm/lunatic whose brain is rotted from Human Growth Hormone. You've proven that you are him with the links he posted and the growing insanity in your posts. So the real question here should be this:
Why do you keep coming back when no one here cares about what you say? Do you honestly think you can change our minds with this insanity?

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by MMARULESonTMA
There are advanced styles with no breathing. The point is to forget the breath eventually. Breath is a manifestation of qi, governed and sustained by it, as are all things. Many styles use postures, movements, mudras and mantras.




lol..........great discussion......... To forget the breath, you first need to be aware of it right ;)

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by MMARULESonTMA
ALL IS VIBRATION (http://www.wellnessgoods.com/messages.asp)

yet another link i can't open, but I think understand the btw and it's the very same thing I've trying unsuccessfully to explain here for a yr and more myself.


great tangent.............

[SPJ]

MMArulesoverTMA (MRT)

Interesting perspectives and good links.

You try to integrate a lot of things and find a universal commonality from chakras, qigong to Falun.

Some I agree. Others I disagree.

In retort, MMA needs to be proved streetswise and combatwise to be listed as TMA in some future point of time.

Tai Tzu Chang Quan summarized MMA at the time by Song first emporer and was used to train soldiers in the Ming's army.

Ba Ji was used by secret service to protect Mao and Chiang.

Shuai Jiao and Qin Na are applied by the police and special force in combat and on the streets everyday in Taiwan and China for over 2000 years.

Praying Mantis (MMA of 18 Jia's) is practiced by marines and military police.

Xing Yi is popular in the Navy circles.

Liu He Mantis was created by Lin Si Tzung. He combined short boxing (Duan Zwei) and Mantis. He once defeated 20 people single handedly while the other hand holding his pants.

You are perhaps 2000 years late in claiming MMA.

By the way, your MMA is used by any forces, police, secret service or any reality group?

Perhaps time has come to get a new name. MMA is a categorization or classsification from or as opposed to something else.

All schools of Wushu's have hitting (punch and kick), grappling (Qin and Na), throwing (Shuai), tripping (Dei) and strategy for long, close, body contact ranges fightings.

You just place over 2000 years of many greatminds and combat driven MMA in shame, by claiming you are first in MMA.

Wow, we all bow to you.


:D

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by SPJ
MMArulesoverTMA (MRT)

In retort, MMA needs to be proved streetswise and combatwise to be listed as TMA in some future point of time.

why would mma want to be listed as a tma?

Tai Tzu Chang Quan summarized MMA at the time by Song first emporer and was used to train soldiers in the Ming's army.

Ba Ji was used by secret service to protect Mao and Chiang.

Shuai Jiao and Qin Na are applied by the police and special force in combat and on the streets everyday in Taiwan and China for over 2000 years.

Praying Mantis (MMA of 18 Jia's) is practiced by marines and military police.

Xing Yi is popular in the Navy circles.

Liu He Mantis was created by Lin Si Tzung. He combined short boxing (Duan Zwei) and Mantis. He once defeated 20 people single handedly while the other hand holding his pants.

You are perhaps 2000 years late in claiming MMA.

they never claimed to have coined the term mma. mma describes a combination of striking and grappling - most tma should technically fall into the label, but the modern day connotation associates the term with nhb, and implies the modern training methods and skill sets popularized by today's mma competitors.

By the way, your MMA is used by any forces, police, secret service or any reality group?

the army and marines learn some basic bjj in boot camp, and furthered in some military ma courses, like MACMAP. along with other hand to hand - exactly which style will depend on the experience of your instructor. you have to remember the purpose of today's military though, and the weapons involved - hand to hand is of very little use to them, regardless of style.

Perhaps time has come to get a new name. MMA is a categorization or classsification from or as opposed to something else.

All schools of Wushu's have hitting (punch and kick), grappling (Qin and Na), throwing (Shuai), tripping (Dei) and strategy for long, close, body contact ranges fightings.

sure they do, but not all of them practice each of these on a daily basis. heck, some schools don't even practice some of them on a weekly basis. I've seen schools that focus on forms and striking and totally neglects throwing. having something in your curriculum and actually training it are two different things.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by MMARULESonTMA
I don't know any backbreaker, I do know someone banned from here though

don't worry backbreaker... I'll keep your secret till I have to ban you again.

oops... cat's out of the bag now...

[CaptinPickAxe]

HA!
Busted....

I knew it! your style was unoriginal and easily identified...

Get a new gig, son.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by MMARULESonTMA
Serious harm I don't think is banned. You don't know backbreaker is just one person.

you're new here, how do you know of them?

Anyway, for the record, serious harm, backbreaker and 3rdrateimakilla are all banned.

[CaptinPickAxe]

You'd think he would get the point...

[SimonM]

Originally posted by MMARULESonTMA

Here. I'll explain. Buddha=Myth , Jesus= Myth, Atlantis= Some say Myth, but was wwritten about by Plato. Is your MA as old as Plato?


Ok, I've been being nice and not jumping in on this one. I was kind of hoping that the thread would get un-hijacked and return to a reasonable discussion of which Kwoons use Qigong as part of their training regimen and what forms of Qigong they use. This hasn't happened. Instead I have read through a million unnessary threads about how Modern Martial Arts are better than Traditional Martial Arts because TMA practitioners do not participate in MMA tournaments. When that dull subthread finally quieted I was treated to a million posts of "you all suck, don't tread on my cult of choice" also not what this thread was supposed to be about.

I didn't want to propagate the continuance of these distractions but unfortunately I then saw the above quoted line. Now, I am assuming that MMAetc. was referring to Siddhartha when he talks about Buddha being a myth. Now I tend to be sceptical on the existence of things more than two thousand years old but (placing him in his relevant historical context) Siddartha is as likely to have existed as Confucious, or Plato and more likely to have existed than Socrates or Laotze. Let me explain:

As much as I am fond of Taoism, there are no historical records of Laotze's life. Now there is a book. The problem is that books are not accurate proof of the author's life. In China, it was common to ascribe the authorship of a book to some ancient and venerated sage to lend it credability.
Modern theory suggests (due to some subtle changes in style throughout the Dedaojing) that the book was actually compiled by several authors. Socrates only appears in Plato's works - you know - the same works that make allusions to Atlantis. Now, unlike MMAetc. I have read a lot of Plato and you know what? The guy was an idiot! This is a man who called for an end to art because it was "a reflection of a reflection" and thus drew people away from "ideal forms" (Republic X) this was a man who extolled the virtues of older men having affairs with teenage boys! (Sympposium). This was a man who constructed the idea of a city that was buried beneath the waves (Atlantis - also mentioned in one of the books if the Republic if I remember correctly) in order to prop up his concept of the ideal state. The state style: dictatorship of Philosophers! (He didn't like Athenian Democracy.) The fact that MMAetc. would turn to Plato for authentication of martial arts "because he is old" demonstrates the weakness of MMAetc.'s argument. Could we please return to the original discussion now and just ignore this Troll in future?

I found a website with drawings of Lam Si Wing doing the Iron Thread but unfortunately the static drawings do not include transition comments of any sort. Also there was some variance between the Lam Si Wing drawings and the postures taught by my Sifu and yet from my personal experience (admittedly limited) the form of Iron Thread taught at my Kwoon is quite effective. What are the thoughts of the forumites regarding the evolution of Qigong forms through transmission vis. oral tradition?

[MMARULESonTMA]

Fine, show your evidence that a guy 2500 years old was real, because, like all of them, you can't go by 2500 years of history. You idiots just don't have a clue do you. There are many, many, buddhas. Because the history is so long. And the same stories get told over and over. Generation after generation. That's what proves the reality of falun gong. It simply proves itself, that it comes from a monk, that was seperate from, "the buddha" , but whose masters over the years, were still buddhas. As far as Plato., his character has nothing to do with what he wrote, but all myths, which means, all religions, it's the same old story. Morality for mankind, and savior character is a myth, regardless if they were a real person, lik Lao Tsu, can you really prove the myths match the historical characters. But all Myths go back to Atlantis, the ultimate origin of mankinds morality, and Plato's atlantis fell from war, I read some of it. It's more credible than the origins of most MA. All I said was that martial qigong is the low level.

Oh,**** if you don't know that MMA does NOT mean modern martial arts.

[Meat Shake]

"Oh, STFU if you don't know that MMA does NOT mean modern martial arts."

What are you rambling about now? Are there any coherent thoughts floating around that vast empty space between your ears?
Please just shut up. I feel my IQ dropping with every one of your posts that I read.

[CaptinPickAxe]

We will soon be able to draw a fourth chalk out line for Backbreaker/SeriousHarm/3rdrateimakilla/MMARULESonTMA

Before you go...Do you live under powerlines or near a reactor? I'm just looking for the root of your farfetched ignorance and insanity.

[David Jamieson]

There were Buddha before Shakyamuni and there are Buddha now.

However, siddhartha Gutama's life is a matter of record really.
He lived, he died, he had a message.

There are numerous records of emmanuel bar joseph (Jesus Christ) Outside of the Bible and the gospel.

Platos dialogues from the Republic are the only historical writing about Atlantis on record.

the rest is Edgar Cayce stuff and a bunch of other people who read a little greek and ran psychic fair stuff. Not very plausible.

The Timaeus and the Critaeus are the dialogues from the republic where you can read what was said about atlantis and yes, it is a morality tale to hammer home a message about righteousness and the abuse of power and where it leads.

Structured practice of qigong grew out of natural investigation.
It's origins are pretty cloudy as formalized practice and the same can be said of Yogic practice.

they did arise independently of each other though.

Li Hongzhi can easily be described as border line whacko, or full out whacko depending on your point of view, but definitely not a balanced thinker or philosopher. His rants are easy to read in many places. 2 words "nut" & "bar". But believe what you want backbreaker, you will continue to troll about this until you make your own forum and have a gathering of like minded fruitloops all lapping that nonsense up.

Man, you rank right up there with the firestarting floating John Chang group hahahaha.

Man, some people are just plain gullible i guess. Oh well, L.Ron was onto something!

[CaptinPickAxe]

I just pray he hasn't reproduced...

[MMARULESonTMA]

Religion is myth. Qigong and Yoga are pretty clearly connected. Chakras demonstrate that pretty clearly, but you don't wanna admit what you do is not as close to the origin.

Redating the sphinx (http://members.aol.com/davidpb4/sphinx1.html)

Argument that Jesus did not exist, or if he did, was not the only teacher to save man and teach his teachings, you like to give credit to one person, but no, Religion is mythology, falun gong is real (http://home1.gte.net/deleyd/religion/appendixd.html)

And before you criticize Master Li, you try being in the position he's in. His family is still in China, and he's in a very tough spot.

[unkokusai]

Originally posted by MMARULESonTMA
Fine, show your evidence that a guy 2500 years old was real, because, like all of them, you can't go by 2500 years of history. You idiots just don't have a clue do you. There are many, many, buddhas. Because the history is so long. And the same stories get told over and over. Generation after generation. That's what proves the reality of falun gong. It simply proves itself, that it comes from a monk, that was seperate from, "the buddha" , but whose masters over the years, were still buddhas. As far as Plato., his character has nothing to do with what he wrote, but all myths, which means, all religions, it's the same old story. Morality for mankind, and savior character is a myth, regardless if they were a real person, lik Lao Tsu, can you really prove the myths match the historical characters. But all Myths go back to Atlantis, the ultimate origin of mankinds morality, and Plato's atlantis fell from war, I read some of it. It's more credible than the origins of most MA. All I said was that martial qigong is the low level.

Oh,**** if you don't know that MMA does NOT mean modern martial arts.


What the hell is that mess? Somebody's been hittin' the pipe!

[MMARULESonTMA]

Buddha, Jesus, and Lao Tsu, are stories. Li Hongzhi is real life.

So the bottom line is, what is the proof, the religion you practice is what the mythological founder(s) practiced? And not a myth older than history

For the record, I know those particular 3 were for real. But you don't.

[unkokusai]

Originally posted by MMARULESonTMA
. Li Hongzhi is real life.



Isn't he that faloony gong psycho?:confused:

[CaptinPickAxe]

I've gotten how you work, Backbreaker.
You come on here and troll to get attention and then turn your flames into propaganda for your cult. Li Hongzhi is not god and Falun Gong is not the path to heaven.

I am not christian, muslim, jewish, nor am I buddhist, but I can tell you that your view on religion is warped, twisted, and severely fuct. To go on and blather about some guy who teaches Qigong is god is ludacris. I hope when they ban you this time you stay gone.

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

[MMARULESonTMA]

What part of ALL is Vibration, don't you get. Master Li is not god, but he is an enlightened true teacher whose mission is to help anyone who wants to learn to become better people and ascend higher.

The bottom line is that Falun Gong can be verified as a real system, which I have done right here on this forum easily, but religion cannot. And that Atlantis is more credible a story, than the origins of almost all martial arts stories, or religious orirgin stories.

[CaptinPickAxe]

ATLANTIS IS A MYTH, YOU FREAK!

Where is it in the world? Your trash and so is Li Hongzhi. I can show you where Jeruselum is. Our religions may be hard to prove but your cult is just plain retarded and scary. I personally agree with the Chinese government banning Falun Gong...ITS UNHEALTHY...I mean, just look at you.

vibrations....HAH!

The Human Growth Hormone is really fu(kin' with your head, man. You should get some help...or is Falun Gong also a pancea...

[unkokusai]

Originally posted by MMARULESonTMA
Master Li is not god, but he is an enlightened true teacher The bottom line is that Falun Gong can be verified as a real system, .


It is a loony cult, and he is a psycho. What all that makes you, you can figure out for yourself.

[CaptinPickAxe]

for once me and unkokusai agree on something...:D

[SimonM]

Originally posted by MMARULESonTMA
Fine, show your evidence that a guy 2500 years old was real, because, like all of them, you can't go by 2500 years of history.

He has a grave. You can visit it. That is more than can be said of Laotze, Plato, Socrates, Jesus, etc.


You idiots just don't have a clue do you. There are many, many, buddhas. Because the history is so long.

Yes which is why I found it funny when you said that Buddha was a myth. So I figured I would go with the safe bet and suggest Siddhartha since he is so often called "THE BUDDHA" bu those people who don't know Buddhism so well.


That's what proves the reality of falun gong. It simply proves itself, that it comes from a monk, that was seperate from, "the buddha" , but whose masters over the years, were still buddhas.

That is what we call a "non squitur" in the academic circle. Please explain your logic, the existence of multiple buddhas does not in any way authenticate Falun Gong.


As far as Plato., his character has nothing to do with what he wrote,

Although I could safely argue that the character of an author is inseperable from what he wrote I don't have to. I was talking about what he wrote, not who he was. I was pointing out that to suggest that Atlantis is real because Plato said so holds no more ground than defending pedophilia on the same grounds. I even provided you with the name of the book in which Plato makes this assertation. It's called "Symposium" and any decent university library should have a few different translations. You can look for yourself.



But all Myths go back to Atlantis, the ultimate origin of mankinds morality, and Plato's atlantis fell from war, I read some of it.

This may seem rather direct but, as they say in University: Prove it. There is nothing to suggest in the archaeological record that there ever was an Atlantis. The closest to a historical Atlantis that has been found is Manoa which was nothing more than an ordinary pre-socratic Greek community that got wiped out from the aquatic consequences of a nearby volcanic eruption, not a war.

With regards to the origin of myth, scholars such as Carl Gustav Jung, Claude Levi Strauss and Joseph Campbell have suggested that the origin of myth is an internal set of structures in the brain, not a mythological contenent, quite convincingly.


Oh,**** if you don't know that MMA does NOT mean modern martial arts.

No, originally it referred to "Mixed Martial Arts" however since most traditional martial artists decided to give it a miss, it rapidly became synonnymous with "Modern Martial Arts".

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by Kung Lek

There are numerous records of emmanuel bar joseph (Jesus Christ) Outside of the Bible and the gospel.

Actually, only about three -

Tacitus writes about the execution of Christ under the reign of Tiberius when discussing Nero's persecution of Christians in Annals,

Seutonius makes reference to "Chrestus" instigating Jews to disturbance, leading them to be expelled from Rome, in his Life of Claudius,

and Flavius Josephus wrote briefly about Jesus' life and execution in his History of the Jews.

The fact that there are so few isn't really that notable, though - there aren't many historical records at all surviving from that particular time period and region.

[SimonM]

Originally posted by MMARULESonTMA
Li Hongzhi is real life.

I would like to tell you a story.

In Ethiopia, in the first half of the twentieth century, was an emperor called Halie Selassie.

He really existed. He was "real life".

Now around the world in Jamaica, a bunch of guys got it into their head that they were the lost tribe of Israel. According to their thinking, they had been stolen by the slave traders from the promised land. This promised land was Africa. Now, many of these people began to read the scriptures - often the only book they had access to. In the bible, reference to people of their skin tone was "Ethiops" ie: people from Ethiopia. Ergo Ethiopia was the promised land. Now these people heard some of the titles accredited to Emperor Selassie and noticed some (accidental) similarities to other references in the Bible. They decided that the emperor of Ethiopia was the living messiah and that their life goal was to return to Ethiopia to be near him. Most were so poor that they never went.

This religion still exists to this day - it's still kinda whacky but so are most religions.

My point is: just because your Messiah is still alive don't make it a "better" religion.

[unkokusai]

Originally posted by CaptinPickAxe
for once me and unkokusai agree on something...:D

Don't panic, I'm sure it's only temporary.:D

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Wisdom suggests that those in control of their emotions simply ignore the recurring invasion of the Trollius Supremius.. (MMARULESonTMA).. Falun Gong is a passing annoyance and unworthy of such attention.. focus on issues that have merit..

Be well..

[David Jamieson]

Pliny the younger makes reference to him and his followers albeit in the year 111CE.

I would also add that teh quran refers to Jesus
and Jewish texts refer to him as well.

these all fall outside of "the bible" as we know it.

It si believed that a good deal of the Roman records were lost in the Jewish rebellion in 66 ce, but stuff turns up on a pretty regular basis about the guy.

anyway, there's more than three but there are some very notable refs that have nothing to do with the religious texts.

just matters of record, so, Jesus is not really a mythical character in that sense. One could debate his divinity, but debating his existance is egrigious.

cheers

[_William_]

I found a website with drawings of Lam Si Wing doing the Iron Thread but unfortunately the static drawings do not include transition comments of any sort. Also there was some variance between the Lam Si Wing drawings and the postures taught by my Sifu and yet from my personal experience (admittedly limited) the form of Iron Thread taught at my Kwoon is quite effective. What are the thoughts of the forumites regarding the evolution of Qigong forms through transmission vis. oral tradition?

Hello SimonM,

I am fairly certain Lam Sai Wing's book on Iron Wire includes instructions, because I've seen it at the local (chinese) library. I think there is a translation somewhere out there, you may have to look it up on the web.

[SimonM]

Yeah, I've seen the book advertised online. It's just too rich for my impoverished blood at the moment. Pretty much every penny I make is being saved for my upcoming trip to China.

(Even teaching English, there are still setup costs - including the cost of the TESL course - to pay before I can go around the end of the winter.) :D

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by Kung Lek
Pliny the younger makes reference to him and his followers albeit in the year 111CE.

I don't really count Pliny as a direct reference to Jesus, because all his descriptions come under the form of "His followers say that..."



I would also add that teh quran refers to Jesus
and Jewish texts refer to him as well.

these all fall outside of "the bible" as we know it.


The quran does, yes, but it comes much later and refers to much Jewish myth, too... I don't consider it a historical source. There are a few jewish texts that make reference to a Yeshua ben Paradas, but it's unclear whether this is definitely Jesus (circumstances seem to fit, but it's a bit vague.)



just matters of record, so, Jesus is not really a mythical character in that sense. One could debate his divinity, but debating his existance is egrigious.

cheers

Oh, yeah, Yeshua ben Yosef definitely existed. What he did and said is up for debate, but we're as sure about his existence as we are about anything from that time period.

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by TaiChiBob
Greetings..

Wisdom suggests that those in control of their emotions simply ignore the recurring invasion of the Trollius Supremius.. (MMARULESonTMA).. Falun Gong is a passing annoyance and unworthy of such attention.. focus on issues that have merit..

Be well..

falun should be considered in some capacity for big - picture take on life........... it was impactual............

I think LiHongZhi just instructed really badly........ his concepts weren't too off the wall, but at higher level cultivation he missed a trick or three...........


don't razz the dude for sharing and because we're all open minded players, ne need for judgement. right K???

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..


don't razz the dude for sharing and because we're all open minded players, ne need for judgement. right K???
If the "dude" were sharing, i would certainly accommodate... but, the single-minded approach with a conversion agenda tends to get annoying.. the consistent discounting of historically verifiable disciplines (QiGongs) tends to get annoying... I visit these forums with a keen interest in learning, not to observe a multi-banned personality hijack the topic..

I have read Falun Gong's books.. taken several seminars.. know 2 practitioners personally.. and, based on my own experiences, find some wisdom in the movements, but little wisdom in the writtings/philosophy, and, no respect for Li, he rants like a madman deluded with his own insights.. aside from that, if whomever the personality is wishes to stay on topic i will have no quarrel.. but, i am saddened at the deterioration of so many of these threads at the hands of those with no real objective toward self-improvement or the Arts i find so tangible and rewarding...

With a history of being banned for precisely the same tactics, even if its not the same person, whomever "MMARULESonTMA" is should have a modicum of respect for the wishes of those using this thread with sincerity..

Be well...

[David Jamieson]

bob-

he's a kid, in a basement at his moms house and his only friend is his high speed connection and porn sites.

What can you expect in this day and age of a steady diet of electrons, speculation and conjecture?

2 more generations and there is gonna be a heaping helping of trouble on the planet. Just by understanding the concept of cause and effect, this is quite apparent.

ah well, hopefully i will be dead by then.

[blooming lotus]

seem a little passoinate and single minded about it yourself there bob......

falun is like that I guess, it's an intimate practice.........

fair score all round, but discussion should be encouraged as far as I'm concerned, and rebuke should be delivered kindly...... but then again I'm a buddhist and prefer peaceful means :cool:

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

blooming lotus: I have engaged the personality of MMARULESonTMA on numerous occasions and with far more tolerance than most.. but, even a good Buddhist does not repeatedly touch the hot stove.. i do accept some of the criticism as valid, though.. compassion is a core belief of mine and i suppose i didn't show much of it.. oh well, perfection is a high standard...


seem a little passoinate and single minded about it yourself there bob......

Absolutely!! i am indeed passionate about self-improvement.. and single-minded (if you mean focused) when it comes to obstacles in the path.. as for Falun Gong, i gave it a fair shake.. i studied it, i trained in its discipline, and i listened to my heart.. like i said, much of the movement has merit.. but, the philosophy negates even that (IMHO)..

Kung Lek: Exactly, in 2 generations MMA matches will be 2 guys sitting in opposite corners with laptops and wireless connections dissin' each other until one begins crying.. not to mention the cultural deterioration of most other values..

Be well..

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by TaiChiBob
Greetings..

blooming lotus: ..............

Absolutely!! i am indeed passionate about self-improvement.. and single-minded (if you mean focused) when it comes to obstacles in the path..

Be well..


I love hearing that jazz :D :cool: