on bridgeing the gap

[russellsherry]

hi guys, as i said on another thread, the most dangerours, place for a wing chun man to be is before, arms lenth distace, it is dangerous because one of the weakness, in wing chun is attacks at that distance to the head and body shot,s such as uppercuts how would you guys deal with this ,oh vvliay yes despite being disabled i have gone toe to toe with a world champion kung fu teachear in a street fight i might have lost but i gave as good as i got who the person is does not matter
now ,becuase at the time he did not know much about me being disabled..I think the more openmnded you are about other arts the more you learn about your own peace russellsherry

[Wingman]

Bridging the gap may be one of WC's weakness because most people spend most of their time doing chi sao. Most WC people spend less time practicing bridging the gap.

[Vajramusti]

Wingman-sez

Bridging the gap may be one of WC's weakness because most people spend most of their time doing chi sao. Most WC people spend less time practicing bridging the gap.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Incorrect in my opinion. Not weakness in the art. many pracitioners of the art perhaps.
Many arts develop their forms and then try to figure out how to
move in. Wing chun is just the opposite...begins with close quarters-on the inside---being past someone's bridge should be familiar territorry.
Chi sao invites and deals with contact and timing- among other things.
Lat sao chi sao (I am not WT and am not talking about WT)-deals with handling all sorts of gaps.

joy chaudhuri
www.tempewingchun.com

[russellsherry]

hi guys , wingman i think your right , while wing chun does teach to overcome other arts we should not be overconfident, every situaton is different , if you look apon your art as complete
you will end up losing wing chun is very good close range but hetting their is not easy all the time peace russellsherry

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

Joy Said:

Incorrect in my opinion. Not weakness in the art. many pracitioners of the art perhaps. Many arts develop their forms and then try to figure out how to move in. Wing chun is just the opposite...begins with close quarters-on the inside---being past someone's bridge should be familiar territorry. Chi sao invites and deals with contact and timing- among other things. Lat sao chi sao (I am not WT and am not talking about WT)-deals with handling all sorts of gaps.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That’s so true, wing chun is develop from close quarters first. Once you understand that and the proper footwork and timing, you begin to understand and relate your Sil Lum Tao with your combat theory. Just by simply stepping in and attacking the attack, with good line theory. No weakness in wing chun. Being close is better. I’ll rather do my fighting in a phone booth.

Ali Hamad Rahim.
detroitwing chun.com (http://detroitwingchun.com)

[Wingman]

Joy & Rahim, you both have a point. It is not WC's fault if the practitioner practice more chi sao & less bridging the gap. Maybe I'm just generalizing the martial arts. What I'm trying to say is each martial arts has its own strengths and weaknesses.

WC is good in close quarter combat because of constant chi sao practice. Arnis is good in weapons but not so good in empty hands because they have more weapons practice than empty hand practice. BJJ is good in ground fighting but not so good in striking because they practice more groundfighting than striking.

WC is a good martial art. But WC has weaknesses too; just like any other martial art. It is good to know your strengths; but it is even better to know what your weaknesses are. You can capitalize on your strengths. But if you also know your weakness, you can prevent your opponent from using it against you.

Let's take Rahim's example. He said that he'd rather fight in a phone booth. He is capitalizing on his good close quarter fighting. If his opponent knows that, it would not be wise for his opponent to fight Rahim in the phone booth. It is wise for Rahim's opponent to lure Rahim in open space. If Rahim knows his weakness, it might not be easy to lure Rahim out in the open.

[Vajramusti]

Wingman-

we all have preferred locations, distances, environments, weaknesses and strengths... as individuals and we certainly
want to maximize the chances of using what we excel at.

However- often I hear of weaknesses of an art. Regarding wing chun- I am all ears--- but to date--- I dont see the art as having may limtations- almost always its the individual. If there was a better art- for me any way- I would join it today! But opinions bary-its ok.

Wing chun loves contact and we prepare ourselves for that first contact- that is why closing the gap is more "natural" in wing chun than in many other arts-imho.


joy chaudhuri
www.tempewingchun.com

[t_niehoff]

Joy,

Excellent points all around!

------------------------

Regarding the "weaknesses" of WCK -- IME it *can* do what it is designed to do, but's that's not all things. If you want to groundfight, for example, WCK won't prepare you. That's not a "weakness", it is simply outside of its scope.

Regards,

Terence

[taltos]

Originally posted by Vajramusti
Wing chun loves contact and we prepare ourselves for that first contact- that is why closing the gap is more "natural" in wing chun than in many other arts-imho.

SO TRUE. And I would add that a truly proficient WC practicioner bridges the gap in proactive control - rather than as a reaction to the opponent in which the opponent remains in control. That's one of the things that makes me so impressed with the simplicity of the art.

Great point, Chadhuri Sifu.

-Levi

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

Regarding the "weaknesses" of WCK -- IME it *can* do what it is designed to do, but's that's not all things. If you want to groundfight, for example, WCK won't prepare you. That's not a "weakness", it is simply outside of its scope.

Regards,

Terence
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You are only as good as your stance. If your stance is good, you should not be taken to the floor. A lot of people panic under pressure. Stick with the wing chun principles, as far as (chum) sinking energy. With the proper drills and understanding of biomechanics, you begin to develop grace under pressure. Ernest Hemingway says, “True courage is nothing more then grace under pressure”. Don’t worry about getting grabbed. He’s grabbing, you’re hitting. If the hands are free just let them fly. Bang baby bang.

Ali Hammad Rahim.

detroitwingchun.com (http://detroitwingchun.com)

[Matrix]

Originally posted by russellsherry
while wing chun does teach to overcome other arts we should not be overconfident, every situaton is different , Russell,
Good point. Being overconfident can be your downfall. Know your strengths and weaknesses (we all have them) and work within yourself.

Peace,
Bill

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

Russell,
Good point. Being overconfident can be your downfall. Know your strengths and weaknesses (we all have them) and work within yourself.

Peace,
Bill
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well said Matrix: and one more saying. It’s not how good you are, but how good you can become. You can overcome your
weaknesses.

Ali Hamad Rahim.

detroitwingchun.com (http://)

[t_niehoff]

AHR wrote:

You are only as good as your stance. If your stance is good, you should not be taken to the floor.

**Nonsense -- it's not so simple. Anyone -- and I repeat, anyone -- can get taken down. Many people spend an awful lot of time developing amazing takedown skills. If you don't have the skills -- and it takes a lot more than "having a good stance" -- to deal with them (which is only developed by dealing with them) you'll find yourself kissing the floor. Go fight some NCAA level 1 wrestlers, like I have, and then come back and tell me how you can't be taken down. ;)

A lot of people panic under pressure. Stick with the wing chun principles, as far as (chum) sinking energy. With the proper drills and understanding of biomechanics, you begin to develop grace under pressure. Ernest Hemingway says, “True courage is nothing more then grace under pressure”. Don’t worry about getting grabbed. He’s grabbing, you’re hitting. If the hands are free just let them fly. Bang baby bang.

**Yeah, yeah, yeah. Theory is great, and everyone has got a theory. Go try it against good grapplers/wrestlers. Even better -- why not film it and put it up on the internet so we can all see your "grace under pressure" (so many WCK people have websites, so many demo techniques, but so few put up any fighting. Hmmm.) as you repel one NCAA wrestler after another? That would be inspirational. But I know where I'll be putting my money.

Regards,

Terence

[Matrix]

Ali,

I have learned these lessons the hard way. ;)

Peace,
Bill

P.S. The posted link to your site seems to be incorrect. I could get there by entering it manually, so I know the site is up and running.

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

Iv'e been on Oak Park High Wrestling staff for 16 years now! Trust me I know wrestling, even in wrestling you are only as good as your stance. If not, you are going to get body slammed. If you can’t stand up, It's going to be hard to hurt someone quikly. Understanding true Bio-mechanic of wing chun, it can nullify grabs just like wrestling can (Chi Sao). Don’t be afraid, trust your wing chun.

Ali Hamad Rahim.

detroitwingchun.com (http://detroitwingchun.com)

[t_niehoff]

I'll just keep waiting for that inspirational clip to show up on your website . . . but I won't be holding my breath. :)

Regards,

Terence

[KingMonkey]

Ali do any of your wrestlers ever end up on the ground ?

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

If you want inspiration train hard and do it your self.
Trust me, if I can do it, (and have done it) anybody can. Trust your wing chun. And keep the training going strong. If your with wing chun your on the right Path.

God Bless you

Ali Hamad Rahim
:)

deroitwingchun.com (http://detroitwingchun.com)

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

Ali do any of your wrestlers ever end up on the ground ?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

All the time, that’s the way the sport is. And that’s just what it is, a sport Not combat. you have to stand up to get the take down first. before that guy slam you. come on you should know this stuff already.

Ali Hamad Rahim


detroitwingchun.com (http://detroitwingchun.com)

[t_niehoff]

AHR wrote:

**OK, I'll take off the kid gloves . . .

If you want inspiration train hard and do it your self.
Trust me, if I can do it, (and have done it) anybody can. Trust your wing chun. And keep the training going strong. If your with wing chun your on the right Path.

**You are full of sh1t. Go fight a Gracie -- they have very little in the way of stand-up skills -- and if they can't take you down, you'll beat them. And then you'll be famous and rich! WCK practitioners, and others, worldwide will flock to you to learn. I guess you haven't already done this, dispite your world-class skills, for some very good reason. And I know the reason: because, you are full of sh1t, and a Gracie would take you down and choke you out in no time.

**You represent IMHOthe worst part of WCK, the "trust me" crowd. Well, I don't trust you, and I don't trust anyone who says "trust me." Because if they have to say "trust me" it means they are full of sh1t; they would prove it if they could. So prove it. It's easy enough to prove. Go fight NHB -- just go down to a local NHB gym where they have open mats, show us. Don't tell us how you have done it and can do it. Show us. Anything else just means you can't.

Terence

[sihing]

Ali,
Some do not understand WC, and not all WC is created equal.

Quote: t_niehoff
"Anyone -- and I repeat, anyone -- can get taken down."

And anyone can get punched, kicked, head butt also. Even more so true when the application is done in an efficient and effective manner, with less danger to the person applying the technique and more danger put upon the person receiving it. I recently saw a BJJ guy fight another MAA guy in a light weight UFC fight, the BJJ guy was knocked out cold in 45seconds. Does this mean anything, or prove supremacy? Don't know, but it does prove that "ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING" can happen. If your choice is to concentrate on stand-up fighting fine, just know your stuff and be aware of the ground fighters stuff too. Visa versa for people that prefer to fight on the ground...


t_niehoff
Your real self is exposed the more you post on this forum. Saying someone is "full of sh!t" because they have a belief that is contrary to yours. I personally do not have to go anywhere to prove anything, I have faith that the tools WC provides gives me adequate self defence abilities, not to go out and fight to satisfy my ego and prove a point.

Sihing

[Phil Redmond]

Hi Rahim, you wrote:
"Iv'e been on Oak Park High Wrestling staff for 16 years now! "

I'm not trying to dispute you but 2 of my students graduated from Oak Park High. Sifu Carmelino Guiao and and Sihing Junuar Alojipan. (They have since graudated from U of M and I think you're about their age). Junaur was on the wrestling team and he's curious as to what years you were there since he doesn't remember your name. He did mention coaches Well, Sheppard and Mr. Freeman? I know that the new coach is Joel Ciccone.

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

Didn’t say I was the coach. Coach Wells is my uncle.
And I was on that team. And I was asked by him to help out with his boys and still do today I do, Your students was never down with Wells. By the way we call him Twin. And Shep is the track coach. Get it right. don't get me started on all of your lies.

Ali Hamad Rahim.




detriotwingchun.com (http://detroitwingchun.com)

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

sihing said:
And anyone can get punched, kicked, head butt also. Even more so true when the application is done in an efficient and effective manner, with less danger to the person applying the technique and more danger put upon the person receiving it.


You must be reading something else. I never said no one cannot be hit. I simply said That we all can over come our weaknesses. What are you trying to do here? I’m out of here. Later. your wing chun must be realy bad to feel that way. keep training maybe you will get there. no need to hate, I'm not your enemy.

Ali Hamad Rahim.
detroitwingchun.com (http://detroitwingchun.com)

[Phil Redmond]

LOL, What lie?
I was simply asking a question. Junaur just told me that Shep also coached the wrestling team. I don't know. I wasn't there. He also mentioned that Mr. Wells was called Twin (because he had a twin), but he didn't like the students calling him that. Both students graduated from Oak Park High in 1990 so Junuar said he should know you since he was on the wrestling team.

[Aqira]

Consider in wing chun just as in any formal art there is a common problem with such a focus on the application, meaning there is a lot of focus on technique.
In time an artist can and should develop past that point and when the mind stops dwelling on scenario and technique then you can simply respond.

Prior to that the technique is an application of if this happens do that, then it progresses to a level of if this occurs these are options. However beyond that those things fall away and with them so many imposed limits.

When you look for limits perhaps you create them? Why create limits?

A basic Taoist concept might state that if there is weakness there is strength as well as the reverse, giving a lot of attention to one over the other prevents a reasonable balance.
A fighter that feels a flow isn’t thinking about those things.

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

That's a lie we called him that still today. twin is not that way. I have called him that from the time that was able to talk. Slow down big boy that's family. wait till he see this forums. keep up the good work. He was not down with us ( your student). I'm from
Oak Park. Royal Oak t.wp. and that's where twin from to 8-mile Dogs. do he know about that

Ali Hamad Rahim.:D
detroitwingchun.com (http://detriotwingchun.com)

[Vajramusti]

Yikes- The thread title was about bridging the gap in wing chun-
and its going off into name calling and groundwork. The former is not necessary and we have visited the ground issue many times.

If someone does not have confidence in their wing chun- they might benefit from whatever they think will fill their gap.

There is this other infrequently visited forum on reality and street fighting.

[sihing]

Ali,
I think you misunderstood my post. I was responding to a quote from t_niehoff, not you. Just as anyone can be taken to the ground the same holds true for striking someone, anyone can be hit also.

Sihing

[Phil Redmond]

Junaur Alojipan WAS on the Oak Park High wrestling team. It should be very easy to prove by checking some Oak Park High archives.

[old jong]

Hey Guys!...Don't turn this forum into a personal war battlefield!....;)
BTW Ali Hamad Rahim. I enjoyed your clips with jazz music as background and your Wing Chun is very good so ,why do you need to attack Phil in your video list?...Detroit is big enough,don't you think?...;)

[Ernie]

Do Or Die Bedstuy , LK nation , QB , crips , bloods . CPT etc …. Good lord what next bumbabloodclot and ragamuffin shot callin are we all over the age of 12 here ?
That’s why I moved up out the ghetto =(

now i'm going into ''da hood '' and put up the illyist burner '' wing chun sucks '' while bumping KRS 1 listen to my 9mm go bang wa da da dang



opp's sorry childhood flash back

what were we talking about again;)

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

I am sorry sihing. it's hard to think right sometimes. Forgive me.

Ali Hamad Rahim.

detroitwingchun.com (http://detroitwingchun.com)

[sihing]

Bridging the Gap, Entry techniques I think, lol..

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

sihing:
Bridging the Gap, Entry techniques I think, lol..

that's right lol. Take care of everything stay strong.

Ali Hamad Rahim.


detroitwingchun.com (http://detroitwingchun.com)

[Ernie]

Originally posted by sihing
Bridging the Gap, Entry techniques I think, lol..

Oh thanks ,
lost my D amn mind for a second .

bridging the gap is no big deal , just spend time there just like you do in chi sau , make distance your friend and his enemy :)

once you have good footwork and eye sensitivity , you just cut there action or timing in half , but beware over commiting and giving up adjustability a skilled fighter flip the script on you mid stride

if you try and apply wing chun '' technique '' fixed form or preset shapes you might have problems

but if you just flow and apply concept it makes thing relate better to the situation and opponent

but in the end just work it like any other tool no one answer or magic pill

and to the 5% ah salam a lakim

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

Old jong said:
Hey Guys!...Don't turn this forum into a personal war battlefield!....
BTW Ali Hamad Rahim. I enjoyed your clips with jazz music as background and your Wing Chun is very good so ,why do you need to attack Phil in your video list?...Detroit is big enough,don't you think?...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That should not be an attack. Phil’s wing chun is the best wing chun right? Maybe I’ll e-mail you sometime and let know the full story.

Ali Hamad Rahim

[WCis4me]

Originally posted by old jong
Hey Guys!...Don't turn this forum into a personal war battlefield!....;)
BTW Ali Hamad Rahim. I enjoyed your clips with jazz music as background and your Wing Chun is very good so ,why do you need to attack Phil in your video list?...Detroit is big enough,don't you think?...;)

Hi Old Jong,

I took a look at that clip you mentioned. It is from the first NYC seminar GM Cheung did. The one Robert Chu was at. Think the circa was 1984. Sifu Redmond was brand spanking new to the TWC system at the time. Funny I thought it was copyrighted, but then again what do I know.

Take care,
Vicky

[YongChun]

Originally posted by sihing
Ali,
I think you misunderstood my post. I was responding to a quote from t_niehoff, not you. Just as anyone can be taken to the ground the same holds true for striking someone, anyone can be hit also.

Sihing

Everything depends on what level your at. Below a certain level it doesn't matter much how you fight. Each kind of fighter will have a 50% chance of winning. At the upper end the fine details may come out in an extended series of fights.

If the grappler is better than the Wing Chun guy then he will take the Wing Chun guy down. If the Wing Chun guy is better than the grappler then he will punch out the grappler or just be able to prevent the takedown.

I can take down most of the students I have taught they couldn't do the same back (used to wrestle as a kid). I couldn't take down one German guy who trained 3 solid years in footsweeps (also was number 2 in stickfighting , had 8 years Jujitsu and regularly fought against the skinheads) or an Olympic Judo guy. They could take me down but not on every attempt.

So anyone can be taken down and anyone can be punched in the head depending on the attackers skill level and not their art.

[Phil Redmond]

Originally posted by Ali Hamad Rahim
Old jong said:
Hey Guys!...Don't turn this forum into a personal war battlefield!....
BTW Ali Hamad Rahim. I enjoyed your clips with jazz music as background and your Wing Chun is very good so ,why do you need to attack Phil in your video list?...Detroit is big enough,don't you think?...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
That should not be an attack. Phil’s wing chun is the best wing chun right? Maybe I’ll e-mail you sometime and let know the full story.

Ali Hamad Rahim

My side of the story is on the Woo Fai Ching thread.

Sigh. . . . .when is this going to end? It's getting really old. It's not mentally healthy to hold ill feelings towards others. I remembered us having a good time training once. I have no clue what happened after that.
Also, I believe that it's the individual not the system and I'd never say that my WC is the best. I even said that if you want to be the king of WC in Detroit go for it. There's enough people in the Metro Detroit area for many WC schools.

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

I didn’t know that (1984) and the footage is copy writing in Silent Warriors name. Redmond I would love to see new footage. Is that’s possible? I see that this forum is over with. I’m done.

Ali Hamad Rahim.


detroitwingchun.com (http://detroitwingchun.com)

[WCis4me]

Originally posted by YongChun
If the grappler is better than the Wing Chun guy then he will take the Wing Chun guy down. If the Wing Chun guy is better than the grappler then he will punch out the grappler or just be able to prevent the takedown.
................................................
So anyone can be taken down and anyone can be punched in the head depending on the attackers skill level and not their art.

Hi YongChun,

I completely agree, there is also the factor of luck. Sometimes luck, fluke circumstances can change everything.

Take care,
Vicky
BTW I miss Vancouver Island in a HUGE way. Grew up in the lower mainland but spent lots of time on the west side of the Island.......Tofino.......etc.
Jealous of you right now.

[WCis4me]

Originally posted by Ali Hamad Rahim
I didn’t know that (1984) and the footage is copy writing in Silent Warriors name. Redmond I would love to see new footage. Is that’s possible? I see that this forum is over with. I’m done.

Ali Hamad Rahim.


detroitwingchun.com (http://detroitwingchun.com)

Yup 1984......and not sure how you could copyright it in your name when it was already copyrighted under someone else. Again not sure that it was but my bets are on it that it was.

[old jong]

IMO,Phil's comments on this forum have always been moderate and common sensed.I don't know him on a personal level but we have exchanged messages from time to times and never I felt anything about a superiority complex for his Wing Chun or anything.BTW,I don't mind if someones is proud about his Wing Chun.We all are don't we?...I can also go with all variants if the custommer is happy with the product.;)

You are also proud about your Wing Chun and you are right to be (IMO) You have enough to feel good about so it should dispense you from disputes of that kind (IMO again!);) I prefer not to take side into this because I have nothing personaly against any of you two and it is O.K. like this.
Anyway,I'll mind my own business.;)

[Phil Redmond]

Originally posted by Ali Hamad Rahim
I didn’t know that (1984) and the footage is copy writing in Silent Warriors name. Redmond I would love to see new footage. Is that’s possible? I see that this forum is over with. I’m done.
Ali Hamad Rahim.
detroitwingchun.com (http://detroitwingchun.com)
NP, what would you like me to send you and where should I send it?

[sihing]

Quote : Ernie
"once you have good footwork and eye sensitivity , you just cut there action or timing in half , but beware over commiting and giving up adjustability a skilled fighter flip the script on you mid stride"

Very good advice, especially the eye sensitivity aspect and cutting their action in half, I like that analogy. I believe that once a practicioner has mastered themselves and their own movement they need attributes like timing, footwork/positioning, sensitivity and good eyes to make things work out in their favor, especially when trying to bridge that gap between you and your adversary, a dangerous place. That's why I like the TWC entry technique, it's something that can protect you on the way in, but is committing nothing to the opponent for him to dissolve and it allows us to interrupt our movement mid way to an attack or retreat, just in case the script is changed.


James

[Phil Redmond]

Originally posted by Ali Hamad Rahim
I didn’t know that (1984) and the footage is copy writing in Silent Warriors name. Redmond I would love to see new footage. Is that’s possible? I see that this forum is over with. I’m done.

Ali Hamad Rahim.


detroitwingchun.com (http://detroitwingchun.com)

Yes, the footage on your site is copywrited by the WWCKFA.

[WCis4me]

Originally posted by Phil Redmond
Yes, the footage on your site is copywrited by the WWCKFA.

That's what I thought....I was pretty sure GM Cheung had everything under copyright.
Dayum wish I had put money on that one. ;)

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

Redmond said:
NP, what would you like me to send you and where should I send it? (Chi Sao Footage.)

your very own webpage. @Wingchunkwoon.com

Ali Hamad Rahim

detroitwingchun.com (http://dertroitwingchun.com)

[old jong]

"once you have good footwork and eye sensitivity , you just cut there action or timing in half , but beware over commiting and giving up adjustability a skilled fighter flip the script on you mid stride"

In my line it is called "breaking timing" Nothing new! Even the robotoids are aware and programmed for this!...;)
BTW,I'm sure that most lines have their own particular way of calling and explaining this principle.

Oups!...My batteries are low! Got to recharge!;)

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

Quote : Ernie
"once you have good footwork and eye sensitivity , you just cut there action or timing in half , but beware over commiting and giving up adjustability a skilled fighter flip the script on you mid stride"

Very good advice, especially the eye sensitivity aspect and cutting their action in half, I like that analogy. I believe that once a practicioner has mastered themselves and their own movement they need attributes like timing, footwork/positioning, sensitivity and good eyes to make things work out in their favor, especially when trying to bridge that gap between you and your adversary, a dangerous place. That's why I like the TWC entry technique, it's something that can protect you on the way in, but is committing nothing to the opponent for him to dissolve and it allows us to interrupt our movement mid way to an attack or retreat, just in case the script is changed.

You the man Ernie; eye sensitivity is a big factor in attacking the attack. looking for small Movements, that give away any intent of an attack, even a fake movement. Take everything as real, close the gap, and let him fake himself out. p.s you don't have to wait for movement run in any way.(if you have bad eye sensitivity)

Ali Hamad Rahim

detroitwingchun.com (http://detroitwingchun.com)

[Ernie]

danger will robertson the old jong is running ot of power must insert ....................


jeet , intecept motion , lack of motion , or emotion , or lack of focus , hit him while he is thinking adjusting or setting up .

i love to zap people when they have a preset posture , it's the funniest thing it's like there moving in slow motion trying to create there stance or what ever and ------ bam

yep every body has this idea , but if they can pull it off , well that's up to the individual ;)

[Ernie]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ali Hamad Rahim
[B]Quote :
You the man Ernie; eye sensitivity is a big factor in attacking the attack. looking for small Movements, that give away any intent off an attack, even a fake movement. Take everything as real, close the gap, and let him fake himself out.

Ali Hamad Rahim


Well since we are on the subject of eyesensitivity as a tool for moving in ,

how do you guys train it


me ? i like weapon sparring , isolate my footwrk and work slipping in on something that moves faster then a fist

if i can close the gap on a guy with stick trying to nail me a fist looks very slow ,

i don't use gear so the pain factor is there if you eff up

not for everyone i know :D

[YongChun]

Originally posted by WCis4me
Hi YongChun,

I completely agree, there is also the factor of luck. Sometimes luck, fluke circumstances can change everything.

Take care,
Vicky
BTW I miss Vancouver Island in a HUGE way. Grew up in the lower mainland but spent lots of time on the west side of the Island.......Tofino.......etc.
Jealous of you right now.

Hi Vicky,
In a true test I would try to take out the luck factor by having the best of 21 matches like in Chess. I went to University in Toronto and also spend a year in freezing cold Michigan but I may me reading wrong where you are right now. Victoria is very beautiful. Anyone from your club is welcome to work out here but we are small at the moment.

Ray

[Vajramusti]

For a while---

Rodney Dangerfield...


I dont know what's happening- I went to a boxing match and a hockey game broke out.

[YongChun]

Originally posted by Ernie

me ? i like weapon sparring , isolate my footwrk and work slipping in on something that moves faster then a fist

if i can close the gap on a guy with stick trying to nail me a fist looks very slow ,

i don't use gear so the pain factor is there if you eff up

not for everyone i know :D [/B]

I know a guy that trained with the Grandmaster of Balintawak namely Ancion Bacon. He said one year Japan sent over a group of it's highest ranking Karate warriors to the Phillipines to introduce Karate to the Phillipines. So somehow a match between these Karate guys and Bacon was held. At the flip of a coin it was decided that the Karate head attack first. In a series of punching and kicking attacks the Grandmaster defended easily. Then it was his turn to attack and he did so successfully (with empty hand not with his stick). The Japanese were appreciative of his skill and asked him his secret to being able to defend against their very fast kicks. He said it was simple, stick speed is much faster than foot speed and he was used to that kind of speed. So I think there is some value in weapons sparring based on that kind of story.

http://www.quick-stick.de/quickstickneu/html/bacon__venancio.html
http://www.visayanmartialarts.com/balintawakarnisescrima.htm
http://www.balintawak-arnis.com/

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

Ernie said:


Ali Hamad Rahim


Well since we are on the subject of eyesensitivity as a tool for moving in ,

how do you guys train it


me ? i like weapon sparring , isolate my footwrk and work slipping in on something that moves faster then a fist

if i can close the gap on a guy with stick trying to nail me a fist looks very slow ,

i don't use gear so the pain factor is there if you eff up

not for everyone i know


__________________
If the truth hurts , then you will feel the pain

Do not follow me, because if you do, you will lose both me and yourself....but if you follow yourself, you will find both me and yourself

Hey Ernie

Well, we train with pak sao drills, when making contact. In per-arrange contact we watch the collarbone, when the collarbone moves, it’s a very small movement. (eye sensitivity) And it spells intent. When you see that, you jump on an attack line right away. Some say watch the elbows, some people are just to fast for me to do that. Some people say watch the eyes, and some faces never change. I don’t know, I just do what sifu say. Give it a try.

Ali Hamad Rahim
:)
detroitwingchun.com (http://detroitwingchun.com)

[Vajramusti]

Ali-

I am not very good with net links. But from what i could see of your site there was a "fuzzy" (on my screen) pic of you(?) and someone else ina "frozen" chi sao/poon sao beginning position.
Who would that be. Where and when?
Regards,

Joy

[Ernie]

Cool nice to see things back on some kind of positive track :D

Ray,
I am a firm believer of this type of ''attribute training '' the key is to maintain the wing chun engine and concept during the stick play, sure mess around with offline motion and angles but when you switch on don't play go in with spirit and support it with structure

To every action there is a high and a low, this is what makes attacking so difficult, you use you high '' burst '' to cover distance

But your '' low'' recovery is when counter hitters get you

When you can have a non-telegraphic burst and cover the down side with structural integrity then things get easier

This is an on going process with me and finding ways to teach it in a live environment is also a fun puzzle


Ali-

good of you to share , experience and openess are very welcome ;)
as for do what Sifu says , i'm a bit different , i listen to what he says but i study what he does , then i test to see if it suits me . i question everything and make it prove itself to me , often i find myself on the floor , knocked out looking up going ohhh i get it :D

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

Hello joy, that’s the king of chi sao himself Master. A. Fong, a real wing chun killer. The best chi sao man that I know of. In 1993 in Chicago with his student Ken.

Ali Hamad Rahim


detroitwingchun.com (http://detroitwingchun.com)

[Vajramusti]

Ali-

Thanks. I thought so. The picture was a bit fuzzy but I recognized
the hands!!!

joy

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

Ernie
as for do what Sifu says , i'm a bit different , i listen to what he says but i study what he does , then i test to see if it suits me

Hey Ernie:
It work's for me. thats all I ever do. it may not work you, but give it a try.

Ali Hamad Rahim


detroitwingchun.com (http://detroitwingchun.com) :)

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

Anything for you Joy.

Ali.

[kj]

Originally posted by Ernie
if you try and apply wing chun '' technique '' fixed form or preset shapes you might have problems

but if you just flow and apply concept it makes thing relate better to the situation and opponent

IMHE, Yes, yes, yes! And those concepts need to be internalized all the way into the bloodstream. Your caution about over committing was right on target too. Every once in awhile you guys from the reality fighting team write something even a pathetic theoretician can appreciate; especially one that's been knocked on their a$$ more than a few times. ;)

Regards,
- kj

[old jong]

danger will robertson the old jong is running ot of power must insert ....................

Insert what?....:confused:
BTW, the Robertson's robot was surely in CLF if we consider his wide arm movements!...
I agree it is a good idea to sucker punch the guy when he is assuming his Kung Fu pose. ;)

[old jong]

Originally posted by Vajramusti
Ali-

Thanks. I thought so. The picture was a bit fuzzy but I recognized
the hands!!!

joy

Here are the very same hands (http://www.montrealwingchun.com/ben-sigung-sifu.jpg) at work dismanteling my structure.

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

that cool Mike!, and I know, you know, how good he is :) ps Joy is very blessed.

Ali Hamad Rahim

detroitwingchun.com (http://detroitwingchun.com)

[Vajramusti]

Ali-

lucky me.(YUANFEN). I lived in Tucson-then opened a school in New mexico- came back to Arizona... but this time up the road in the Phoenix metro.

joy

[old jong]

Ali
I know!
BTW,I'm going to meet his Sifu (Ho Kam Ming) this coming saturday! I have the feeling I'm going to end up a little better than before afterward. ;)

[Ernie]

KJ,

Hey, don't put me in the [reality fighting team ] there is a big difference from getting your rocks off hardcoreing with MMa guys , to dialing in street skills

one can help the other as a tool but no more important , then your refinement training , and to much of that '' hardcore'' training will make your game limited as well , and i speak from experience i have gone to the MMA , Thai , Boxing and so on gyms for years
and the ability to shut down those hard heads , made me gain respect for wing chun training , and all the extra things like conditioning , weapons , mass attack , and so on

but i'm still working with chi sau , dummy, pole and on a real special day , dare i say it even forms , hope no body heard me ;)


ALI[Hey Ernie:
It work's for me. thats all I ever do. it may not work you, but give it a try]

that's cool man , to each there own i'm just not much of a follower ;)

OJ[Insert what?....] if in doubt sucker punch :D

[kj]

Ernie, this team thing would work a whole lot better if everyone would stop bucking the system and just stay in their assigned box. :p

Regards,
- kj

[Ernie]

i adapt to my enviroment , what can i say:)

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

This is what happens when the gap is bridged. From the feel of his bridge. (You must walk it). When making contact. Remember the hand is connected to the wrist, and the wrist is connected to the elbow, and on up to the neck. And that’s where you want to be, in his throat. So just walk the bridge. Don’t push your punch from the air to his head, but Walk the bridge up his arm upon contact. Chum Kil- (sinking the bridge) Oh I forgot, say soft. After hitting, stand close and run a pinning or trapping move, and that will make him stand on his toes. After that, do what you will. and yes the best strike to use with this entry. Is wong jeong (sideward palm strike), and sol jee (Sweeping fingers). App.#1-2
in my video clips. but especially #3

Ali Hamad Rahim.
:)
detroitwingchun.com (http://detroitwingchun.com)

[sihing]

A couple of drills we use to improve eye/perception ability. First, with two students, one will just stand there and the other will shadow box if front of them, throwing punches toward the students eyes, moving side to side. The student standing still will concentrate their attention on the elbows of the other. The next drill is one hand against two, same as before except the student standing still is this time in side neutral stance(left or right) with only lead guard out(no rear wu sau). The partner throwing punches does just that, throws punches to hit the partner. The other has to defend against them, and attack if possible(only higher level students). I also like teach the students to always be aware of how people set up when they attack with either kicks or punches(e.g. most fighters step forward with the lead foot when they execute punching techniques), and that when ever they are training a certain combat technique that they are also training their perception abilities.

In reality combat though, you shouldn't allow the opponent to many opportunities to attack you, that's why simultaneous attack/defend is critical. Dissolve the first attack, move out of the way and attack all at the same time is recommended, then your opponent is on the defensive.

James

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

What happens after the bridged contact is over? Can someone help me with this one. I hate to be the one that starts off; I’m talking too much already.

Ali Hamad Rahim
detroitwingchun.com (http://detroitwingchun.com)

[Wingman]

Originally posted by Ali Hamad Rahim
What happens after the bridged contact is over? Can someone help me with this one. I hate to be the one that starts off; I’m talking too much already.

Ali Hamad Rahim
detroitwingchun.com (http://detroitwingchun.com)

Either the fight is over; or you or your opponent has disengaged. If either of you has disengaged, then its back to square one. You have to bridge the gap again.

I've practiced bridging the gap with fellow WC practioners. After bridging the gap, we tend to "fight" in close quarters & stay in contact. But when I practice bridging the gap with a TKD friend, he always tries to disengage when contact is made. That's understandable because he cannot use his kicks at close range. Sometimes, it is frustrating to keep chasing him around.

I think it is also advisable to practice bridging the gap with non-WC practitioners too.

[Matrix]

Originally posted by Wingman
But when I practice bridging the gap with a TKD friend, he always tries to disengage when contact is made. That's understandable because he cannot use his kicks at close range. Wingman,
From my experience, that's very common TKD behavior. I hate to generalize, but they usually like to get in their prefered range, strike, and back out.

As you've noted, since they tend to favor kicks they usually need more room, and don't like to be crowded. Kicking high, and spinning or jumping kicks are popular. A good TKD guy can also throw a kick while retreating. After be a TKD player myself for several years, I feel pretty comfortable moving inside their range. Once inside, take their balance. They're not going anywhere. ;)

Bill

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

You are right Matrix, the key word is balance. Once your opponent is hit, he is knocked out or shocked, let’s just say shocked for now. It takes 2-3 seconds min, to sap back for being shocked. In that time you can do a lot. Once your opponent is shocked his arm will swing out like Frankenstein, some people do that when playing chi sao. Stay in the inside not outside of his arms; take advantage of his balance by banging on his mother line and by keeping his triangle top heavy. How can he fight you, if he is fighting for his balance? Then start all over again with the same pattern.

Ali hamad Rahim

detroitwingchun (http://detroitwingchun.com)

[Matrix]

Originally posted by Ali Hamad Rahim
Stay in the inside not outside of his arms; take advantage of his balance by banging on his mother line and by keeping his triangle top heavy. [/URL] Ali,
Yes, I would prefer to inside the arms as well. I'm trying to deal with the concept of not having a preconceived notion of what I will do, other than take the center. So, I will take what is available, let the opponent tell me where they are weakest and work with that. Easier said than done. ;)

Peace,
Bill

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

Yes Matrix it is easier said then done. When I make contact, I do know what I’ll don't, my movements are never planded. You are right if you can’t get in the inside do force it, it only will cause problems. But staying on the outside will truly make the fight last longer, that’s real bad. Try this, I don’t know if it will work for you, but give it a shot. Your feet must follow your hands. When making your entry on the inside, for every punch you make must take a step inward. If you cant do that, try one step for every two strikes (rush the mother line). (How to get in the inside). When your opponent is shocked, and his hands swing out. Like Frankenstein. Like I said you have at least 2-3 sec to react, what you do with them (sec.) is your choice. But it should be an opening the size of a Mack Truck. Slap the inside line with a pak sao, and let the feet move while the hands fly. Gook hunting.

Ali Hamad Rahim
detroitwingchun.com (http://detroitwingchun.com)

[Matrix]

Originally posted by Ali Hamad Rahim
...... But it should be an opening the size of a Mack Truck. Slap the inside line with a pak sao, and let the feet move while the hands fly. Good hunting.[/URL] Ali,
If the opening is that big, I should be able to work with that. I'll give it a try. Thanks.

By the way, do your feet follow your hands, or your hands follow your feet?

*Bill

P.S. I changed a minor typo in your quote. I hope you don't mind.

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

The feet follows the hands. I see That you live Cannada, I would love to meet with you. Let's have fun with a 6 hr. workout. I need no money that's O.k. let me set something up before the year is out. I'll let you know when, that's if you can. Stay strong and train well.

Ali Hamad Rahim

detroitwingchun.com (http://detroitwingchun.com)

[Matrix]

Originally posted by Ali Hamad Rahim
let me set something up before the year is out. I'll let you know when, that's if you can. Stay strong and train well Ali,
Yes, I am in Canada, but I'm not in the Toronto area. Although I do go there on occasion. Let me know the details and we'll see what we can do.
Thanks for the advice,
*Bill

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

I like you because you ask the right question, good hunting.

Ali Hamad Rahim

detroitwingchun.com (http://detroitwingchun.com)

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

Some say, Oh no! I just can’t seem to get and stay in the inside lines. Because they love to watch and see what type of damage they caused. Standing around looking is stupid. You must take the mentality of a butcher hacking on some type of chops. It’s all out war do not hesitate, keep the punches coming. don’t stop until your opponent hits the ground, or run away. Don’t chase him when he runs away.

Ali Hamad Rahim

detroitwingchun.com (http://detroitwingchun.com)

[Matrix]

Originally posted by Ali Hamad Rahim
It’s all out war do not hesitate, keep the punches coming. don’t stop until your opponent hits the ground, or run away. Don’t chase him when he runs away. Ali,
Good advice all around. It's pretty much how I would like to see things. When it comes down to it , you need to take care of business. Nothing personal.

*Bill

[WCis4me]

Originally posted by YongChun
Hi Vicky,
In a true test I would try to take out the luck factor by having the best of 21 matches like in Chess. I went to University in Toronto and also spend a year in freezing cold Michigan but I may me reading wrong where you are right now. Victoria is very beautiful. Anyone from your club is welcome to work out here but we are small at the moment.

Ray

Hi Ray,

That would be a good way to remove the luck factor, however I was thinking of something more like walking down the street and a fight happens. Sometimes luck takes a big part in what goes down.

I was raised in BC and stayed until I was 28, moved out here a few years ago. I am about 3hrs from TO and about an hour from Detroit.
Thanks for the invite. Believe me the minute I can head that way I will. I love it there.

Vicky

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

I will put new videos on bridging the gap, in my web page some time soon.

Ali Hamad Rahim

detroitwingchun.com (http://detroitwingchun.com)

[WCis4me]

Originally posted by Ali Hamad Rahim
I will put new videos on bridging the gap, in my web page some time soon.

Ali Hamad Rahim

detroitwingchun.com (http://detroitwingchun.com)
Hey Ali,
Just wondering if you have made any new tapes. I saw an old one of you, well I think it was old, maybe 0-4 years. You were knocked off balance quite a bit during the choreographed routines and was just wondering if there was a better depiction of the 'firm rooted stance' you were discussing.

I realize sometimes tapes, clips, etc can be decieving so just wondering. The one I saw has jazz music playing in the background (good music I might add) and is done in a park. You have your Silent Warrior stuff at the beginning of each section. Mostly about SLT.

Hope that helps describe which one I mean.

Vicky

[Phil Redmond]

Oak Park, MI wrestling team 1990
Far left, coach Bernard Wells (far left), my student Junaur Alojipan (2nd from right), coach Michael Shepard (far right)

[Phil Redmond]

Oak Park Wrestling team members 1990.

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

I’m not sure what you are talking about. I’ll look around. If I find it, I’ll post it. If it’s on tape, then it’s good to go. I’m not a shamed of anything that I record. ALL OF MY APPLICATION ARE REAL!

Ali Hamad Rahim.
detroitwingchun.com (http://detroitwingchun.com)

[Phil Redmond]

Page from Oak Park MI High School yearbook 1990.

[Phil Redmond]

Junuar Alojipan after a wrestling match for the Oak Park Mi, wrestli team 1990.

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

That’s good shep is a hall monitor @ Oak Park High and also. Twins best friend. He may have help him out that season. Just like everyone else did. I was in school at that time working on my Masters. in L.S.U in upper Michigan. Redmond you said you want this stuff to stop and it’s not healthy. I see you and your people want to try and discredit me every time. I’m not spending anytime on you on this forum. Sent you want stop, just wait and see. Now I’ll never stop, HERE COMES THE PAIN! i

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

Redmond said:


Sigh. . . . .when is this going to end? It's getting really old. It's not mentally healthy to hold ill feelings towards others. I remembered us having a good time training once. I have no clue what happened after that. Also, I believe that it's the individual not the system and I'd never say that my WC is the best. I even said that if you want to be the king of WC in Detroit go for it. There's enough people in the Metro Detroit area for many WC schools.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I said things will cool down. and I was willing to do something about my webb page. My wife wanted me to change the whole web page. Quests what, that will never happen now. So you change your tune once again huh. Some get it and some don’t. you want war, you got one!

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

from the Woo Fai Cheng thread:

I will move forward The new Magazine will be there in 10 weeks.I respect you a lot David, and all of you guys are right. But I’ll never let anyone run me down again. Just give it time, it will go away. “Anger” Believe me David I’m not this way. Until someone push me in to a corner. I’m sorry should not say push some of us may not understand but you get the picture.
Ali Hamad Rahim


Last edited by Ali Hamad Rahim on 08-11-2004 at 12:49 AM

I WANT PACE TO, but you want let me have it.
fill the pain. cuz it's coming.

Ali Hamad Rahim

detroitwingchun.com (http://detroitwingchun.com)

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

All I wanted to do, was just talk about theory. I have so much info about combat theory on bridging the gap, and other subject. I would love to share them with you all. If you wish to talk to me about any subject (combat theory). I would love to here from you.
Just write me at theredboat@comcast.net
p.s then I will take that conversation and put it on a weekly post on my web page. I’m going to just watch from now on. Forgive me if I cause any problem, on this forum.

Ali Hamad Rahim


detroitwingchun.com (http://detroitwingchun.com)

[Phil Redmond]

I'm not trying to discredit you. Like I said before. I'm done with this. I was simply clarifying a point you made. That's all. Sorry if you felt that my post was personal.

[AmanuJRY]

It took me awhile to catch up to this thread, and;

Russle,

Great topic, one that I believe many don't understand or study enough. To me bridging the gap is not about technique, it's about strategy. Some posted they like to be 'here' or they like to do 'this', but to me it depends on the situation, the setting, and the person I would be dealing with. For instance Ali said to take the inside lines, this is definately the superior line....when you are the stronger/more skilled individual. If you are the smaller person, it is more wise to stay off your opponent's center and attack from the flank (this is true in large scale combat as well).


Ali and Phil,

No one has any more right than the other to post on here. Ali, I think you have some wonderful insight, and would like to see you post your opinions, no need to leave. From what I see, Phil is only defending himself against your attack of calling him a liar on this public forum, his evidence is to show all of us that he was telling the truth about his student. Also, you seem quick to believe people are judging you or discrediting you, when I have not seen any evidence of slander against you (on this thread). My advice is, relax, share your knowledge and keep any battles between you and Phil offline, it's the graceful way to deal with it.

But who am I to say, anyway?


Ernie,

wa aleakum a sulam!:D

[Matrix]

Originally posted by AmanuJRY
My advice is, relax, share your knowledge and keep any battles between you and Phil offline, it's the graceful way to deal with it. Justin,
Very wise advice, IMO. Life is too short, and I don't beleive any of us need more enemies. Where's the love, people? :D

*Bill

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

Hey Matrix:

For you, new video footage. Workout with my son and student, on web page.

Ali Hamad Rahim.


detroitwingchun.com (http://detroitwingchun.com)

[Phil Redmond]

Originally posted by AmanuJRY


Ali and Phil,

No one has any more right than the other to post on here. Ali, I think you have some wonderful insight, and would like to see you post your opinions, no need to leave. From what I see, Phil is only defending himself against your attack of calling him a liar on this public forum, his evidence is to show all of us that he was telling the truth about his student. Also, you seem quick to believe people are judging you or discrediting you, when I have not seen any evidence of slander against you (on this thread). My advice is, relax, share your knowledge and keep any battles between you and Phil offline, it's the graceful way to deal with it.

But who am I to say, anyway?


Aside from Ali, I've only met one other WC brother in Michigan if I remember correctly. I feel that WC is WC and we can all learn from each other regardless of lineage. I really would like put all this mess behind us and start over. Would that be OK with you Ali? It would be nice to have friendly dialouge (sp)? with my local WC family.

[Matrix]

Originally posted by Ali Hamad Rahim
For you, new video footage. Workout with my son and student, on web page. Ali,
Thanks for the footage. I really like to see faher and son working out together. My son is away at University, and he stayed there for a summer job this year. I miss him a ton.

So I appreciate the great spirit of your training. :)

Peace,
*Bill

[Ultimatewingchun]

Bridging the gap:

1) Non-contact range....no arm-to-arm contact, and completely out of range to even kick safely.


2) Contact (arm-to-arm)...but not close enough yet for a strike or kick to be thrown successfully


3) Exchange stage....arm-to-arm contact is deep enough for a strike or kick (ie. - blows can be exchanged)

4) Persuit...when he retreats or you have an opening to exploit while going forward.

5) Retreat...you need to fall back in order to recover and regroup yourself from a disadvantageous position/situation.


Basic TWC INTRODUCTION to the subject of bridging the gap...in terms of basic strategy and principles.

Much more to be said...perhaps in future posts.

[AmanuJRY]

Ok, how many of you prefer to recieve an attack to employ your technique(empty spring, waiting to be coiled)?

How many prefer to intercept(coiled spring, ready to explode)?

[AmanuJRY]

Originally posted by Ultimatewingchun
2) Contact (arm-to-arm)...but not close enough yet for a strike or kick to be thrown successfully

This one confuses me, Victor. I don't see how you can be in contact (arm-to-arm) and not be, or have passed through, kicking range. I don't know how your body is built, but my legs are longer than my arms.:confused:

[Matrix]

Justin,

I think "to be thrown successfully" may be the key phrase.

*Bill

[AmanuJRY]

The range described-between no contact and punch range- is a range desirable for Muy Thai and savate kicks. Muy Thai kicks are often thrown from just outside 'clinch' range.

My rule of thumb, if they are inside your 'bubble' (within range) but not to punch range, they can kick you.

[Matrix]

Justin,

Forgive me if I'm wrong, I thought we were speaking from a WC prespective. Isn't Victor defining these ranges as if we are bridging the gap?

Sure, a Muay Thai, Savate or even a TKD guy will prefer to kick outside the "clinch" range. They will probably kick. Will you? If so, will it be successful?

By the way, I agree with what you are saying as a general point. I just want to be sure of the context.

*Bill

[AmanuJRY]

Will you? If so, will it be successful?

IMO, yes, at that range a WC front kick to the opponent's rear (support) leg will work, as well as numerous other chi gurk techniques.

[Matrix]

Originally posted by AmanuJRY
IMO, yes, at that range a WC front kick to the opponent's rear (support) leg will work, as well as numerous other chi gurk techniques. Sure thing. I'll buy that. If they don't kick, will you do the same? Not trying to "what-if" you to death, but what I'm saying is, that are times when you will be within kicking range and not be able to kick, or even punch, for one reason or another.

I may be wrong here, and I don't want to detract from Victor's post. By the way, I'm not keen on just exchanging blows either. Sometimes you lose a lot on the "exchange rate", and besides, I just don't like to play fair. ;)

*Bill

[sihing]

In the 5 stages of contact, in the TWC system, after pre-contact stage and before exchange stage (in pre-contact you are beyond kicking range and cannot use kicks unless you advance forward with a big movement, exchange range requires no step up or movement forward, you can just touch them from where you are with both hands) you have contact stage, usually at the wrists, or in that area. When you make contact here, you cannot make contact with either hand or leg attacks without some kind of slight advancement forward(when the arms are extended, like in wu sao, about 3/4 of the way to full extention). This is the feeling out area and is usually not held for long, due to the fact that if you do nothing then the opponent will initiate first, and from this range and closer it gets harder to react. A good WC man familiar with this method will initiate the attack unless the opponent is already in the midst of his own to which you would take advantage of whatever energy he gives you. This stage of fighting can be achieved by two methods, you decide to bring the fight to him and enter on him or he begins the attack and it is intercepted at the wrist/upper forearm range. Also, this is usually only applied when your opponent is protecting the centerline, when circular attacks are done, it is much easier as there is little to interfere with your own counter to the inside of his guard.

Sihing

P.S. I believe Victor P gave a more detailed description of this method on his thread "Understanding TWC".

[AmanuJRY]

Originally posted by Matrix
Sure thing. I'll buy that. If they don't kick, will you do the same? Not trying to "what-if" you to death, but what I'm saying is, that are times when you will be within kicking range and not be able to kick, or even punch, for one reason or another.

How will you know if you can or if you can't until it happens?;)

I'd like to think that by training sensitivity, both in the arms (sau) and the legs (gurk), that my skill would tell me when I could or could not pull something off in the heat of battle.

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

This is all I have to say about bridging the gap. Shock, Frustrate and uproot. Shock, by yelling or shouting, or by attacking the attack. Be careful and to make the body relax. If not, the shock will bounce back on you. Frustrate is to trap or pin this will confuses him and make him stand on his toe, and that’s where the uprooting comes in. by him standing on his toe. Do what you will. See clip on Ali Hamad Rahim dragon pole.

Al Hamad Rahim.


detroitwingchun.com (http://detroitwingchun.com)

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

To shock: The pounce of the tiger. To frustrate: the wisdom of the dragon.

Ali Hamad Rahim

detroitwingchun.com (http://detroitwingchun.com)

[Matrix]

Originally posted by AmanuJRY
How will you know if you can or if you can't until it happens?;)

I'd like to think that by training sensitivity, both in the arms (sau) and the legs (gurk), that my skill would tell me when I could or could not pull something off in the heat of battle. Justin,
From my perspective, you've both asked and answered the question. That's all I'm saying. Sometimes you may be "in range" from a pure distance POV, but you don't have the line.......yet. ;)

Peace,
*Bill

[AmanuJRY]

This question came to me from me and Bill's exchange.

How many of you WCers out there consider bridging the gap with the feet? Not just movement footwork, but kicking or kick-intercepting.

[Vajramusti]

"How many of you WCers out there consider bridging the gap with the feet? Not just movement footwork, but kicking or kick-intercepting."
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Intercepting is a mark of good wing chun.
If you are very confident that a kick will work.. maybe,

A kick has it's risks - against a first rate person...

against an incompetent person. many things can work.

Cant overgenralize- the other person- is part of the dynamics-
unless you are picking on drunks and fools.

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

Man joy you’re good, one hell of a point!

Ali Hamad Rahim.

detroitwingchun.com (http://detroitwingchun.com)

[Vajramusti]

Dont know about that Ali

But-thanks.

Joy

[russellsherry]

hi guys, desipite , myself being a disabled person, i have had to defend myself , on more than one occassion, sometimes i had lost , but each time i was able to perform better under pressure, if we underestemate other arts or school,s we are not showing the respect to our own martial art, amd guys if we are in a fight on our own without our sifu their , to hold our hands , it is up to you to deal with it everyone bleeds, rightly or wrongly boztepe proved their is no such thing as reputaion we are all human by the way i am not endosing that fight just making a point, peace russell sherry

[Wingman]

Originally posted by AmanuJRY
This question came to me from me and Bill's exchange.

How many of you WCers out there consider bridging the gap with the feet? Not just movement footwork, but kicking or kick-intercepting.

When you bridge the gap, you have to move closer to your opponent by stepping forward. In WC, "a kick is a step". Your stepping forward can have a dual purpose -- 1) to close the distance 2) to attack (by kicking).

[Ultimatewingchun]

2) Contact (arm-to-arm)...but not close enough yet for a strike or kick to be thrown successfully. (Victor)

"This one confuses me, Victor. I don't see how you can be in contact (arm-to-arm) and not be, or have passed through, kicking range. I don't know how your body is built, but my legs are longer than my arms." (Justin...AmanuJRY)

My fault for not being clearer...ESPECIALLY SINCE MY INCLUDING THE WORDS...."OR KICK"...WAS A MISTAKE ON MY PART. (I apologize for the haste I engaged in when doing that post).

Yes, you have passed through kicking range - but...you don't have enough control over his body or his balance to attempt a strike or kick...because you're too close for the kick - but still not close enough to strike HIS BODY OR HEAD with your hands - and certainly not close enough for an elbow or knee strike...

even though you have actually made long range contact with one or both of his arms. (In fact - this is the long kiu sao range that has been discussed on several other recent threads).

But the next step is the exchange stage - which is a closer (like chi sao) range - wherein you can strike with the hands/elbows/knees...and if he backs off a bit - or if you manipulate the distance while controlling the action - you can kick him safely and successfully as well.

[AmanuJRY]

Thank you, Victor, for the clarification.