Something to think about ...

[German Bai Lung]

Hi everybody,

I would like to discuss and hear what you think about the following text, written by my Sifu Lee Kam Wing:
Some text about Teaching (http://www.hokiu.com/article_present_teaching_of_martial_arts.html)

Sorry if I may look like a biased student of Sifu Lee only trying to get his name mentioned, but there is not much posting these days here at the forum! (and I AM biased ;) )

So, looking forward to your replys!

[BeiTangLang]

Read it. I looks to be a pretty common point of view from what I have read of others.

I suppose the best an instructor can do is lead by example. Many will fall to the desire for money or power along the way; such is life. Leading by ones actions, rather than by ones speeches or dictations, is the way to make a true difference in any community.

My thoughts of the subject! :)

Best Wishes to all!
~BTL

[Neckbones]

Well said, BTL.

[sayloc]

I agree with your teacher.

Just a couple of things that I have noticed in my experiences.

I find it very hard to develop a close student instructor relationship when the average student only shows up two times a week, or even three. If they can show up every day ussually means they dont work or do not have any other responsibilities, which could be a big red flag as far as their personality.

You can set a good example (or what you think is a good example), but I have found that if a person comes from a family that lacks the morales and ethics that it would take to make a responsible martial artist, it is very hard to change them after they are 17 years old if not younger. Even if you get them when they are seven, if the family life is not good then it is very hard for the instructor to make a difference in five or six hours a week over a five year period.

The money thing is a problem. I found it hard to work a full time job, train and teach. Many people do it but I think they will only reach a fraction of their martial understanding and potential this way. Nothing against them I had to do it for many years. I have done both and can see the difference.

It is hard to try to produce good martial artists and a descent person and still make money. When I figure that one out then my wife can stop working.


Like they say, It takes over 1000 students to produce one worth while instructor.

[MantisCool]

I think the english translation is badly done! Although, I am not very proficient in Mandarin, I can read and understand and know that the translation is not very accurate.

e.g. It says it took at least 3 to 5 years to develop such kind of close relationship between teacher and student which infact should be "3 to 5 years to learn the ethics of martial arts and the arts itself and good behavior etc."

I might be wrong or am I right?

What he is comparing is the standard, desire and quality of the present and traditonal sifus.

[BeiTangLang]

Kai Uwe Pel
Member

Registered: Dec 1969
Location: Shanghai/China
Posts: 61
Something Else to Think About ...
Something Else to Think About ...

I have read the link with interest. Master Lee Kam Wing has a lot to say about low standards, chasing money, changing from traditional training and respect between teacher and student.I think he is giving us a clear picture of a bad kind of kung fu organisation. The kind that damages the Mantis Community and diminishes the art.

"...certificate of masters would be issued after one or two month learning regardless the actual achievment of the followers ....it is an open fact that it is not a matter of one or two days for mastering the martial arts skills"
Yes! Two months! I know a school that will issue one in two weeks! or four seminars - if you pay ... can you imagine!

"nowday's teaching methods emphasis on school style teaching that does not base uopn the close relationshsip between the teacher and the students"
Yes! I know one club that has a lot of schools out in Europe. They all pay and invite their master out. In some cases a student of that master's student can forget his teacher and go directly to the master - if he is paying more or inviting him out for more seminars! Yes, money over respect can be ugly!

"more over they could not be patient with the traditions and thus make amendments to the traditional boxing styles according to the popular wave"

Yes! I saw some mantis schools that add in Sanda fighting and sparring techniques and even publicly admit this! Their master didn't seem to mind either.

I know a Hong Kong mantis organisation that does all of this. It must be what Lee Kam Wing is talking about. Give me a couple of weeks and I will write a proper article including the names, dates and evidence of all the above mentioned actions. It can be a good example on KFO. Please wait.
Thank you !

Kai Uwe Pel
www.chinwoomen.com

[Hungfutkune]

I have read the above post where Lee Kam Wing talks about traditional kung fu. This is pretty common in all REAL traditional styles. Actually it is very similar to some of the comments that Master Kai Uwe Pel says about Traditional Kung Fu. Funny enough when Master Kai talks about it though, it is open for critizism from some of the people on this website. Especially from the German clan!!

Hypocrisy once again reveals it's ugly head!!!

[MantisZombie]

Originally posted by Hungfutkune
I have read the above post where Lee Kam Wing talks about traditional kung fu. This is pretty common in all REAL traditional styles. Actually it is very similar to some of the comments that Master Kai Uwe Pel says about Traditional Kung Fu.

Imagine that!


Originally posted by Hungfutkune

Funny enough when Master Kai talks about it though, it is open for critizism from some of the people on this website. Especially from the German clan!!

Hypocrisy once again reveals it's ugly head!!!

Indeed it does by just looking at the post above yours,.....
I don't see the German clan there,.....(Well,...not the ones that are national anyway..).

[Hungfutkune]

Sorry Mantiscool but I don't see your point!!!!!

I just found it funny that when Master Kai says the same things (many months ago) that Lee Kam Wing mentions in his above post, that some of the German Clan critisize him. But now that Lee Kam Wing says it they (the german clan) take it as gospel!

[MantisCool]

Hi! Hungfutkune

My point is that if you are a non-mandarin reader than you have missed out what exactly Sifu Lee is talking about because the English translation is not quite correct. Therefore, english reader would missed out the full context.

I am not talking about who is wrong and who is right. I am talking about understanding exactly what he is writing about in MANDARIN.

[Hungfutkune]

Mantis Cool,

Thanks for clearing that up. When I read your it looks like you are pointing the hypocrisy label at me.

I would like to hear what the real translation is.

[FEELERSTRIKE]

ON THE QUESTION OF TEACHING STANDARDS IT WAS NOT SO LONG AGO IN THE U.K. THAT PEOPLE STARTED TEACHING MANTIS BOXING AFTER LEARNING IT FOR ONLY A YEAR IN ONE PERTICULAR LINEAGE . THE HEAD OF THAT LINEAGE STATED IN A MAGAZINE THAT HIS STUDENTS REQUIRED 25 FORMS EXPERIENCE BEFORE TEACHING . I TAKE MY HAT OFF TO ANYONE WHO CAN LEARN 25 FORMS WITH FULL BREAKDOWN AND BE ABLE TO DEMONSTRATE TO OTHERS IN THEIR FIRST 12 MONTHS OF LEARNING THE STYLE .

[Hungfutkune]

I would have to take my hat off two, maybe even check my eyes and hearing. 25 forms in 1 year and then teaching them. I find it hard to believe but then again no impossible.

A question to german Bai Lung, who was it that originally brought 7 star PM to Germany? Because it does look like you have quite a big organization there!