OT: Music/bass guitars

[Oso]

ok, so I'm thinking about trying to learn to play bass.

looking at lots of stuff on the web.

biggest question is whether a beginner's bass is going to be the way to go considering I am NOT a musician so I don't know if I'm going to fail miserably or if I should go ahead and by an intermediate bass.

[MasterKiller]

What advice do you give noobs in your martial arts classes? Should beginners start with intermediate material just because they think they really want to be serious students?

[Chang Style Novice]

MK: (http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B000021Y7X.01.LZZZZZZZ.gif)

[Oso]

:rolleyes:

no, that doesn't make sense.

of course I can't jump in and play Victor or Bootsy right away

I wasn't talking about the material, I was asking about the instrument itself.

[MasterKiller]

Do you teach your students dao by giving them a combat-steel sharpened weapon?

[red5angel]

MK, stop being a *******.

Oso, I've been thinking of picking up guitar and here's what I've been told about what kind to pick up.

If I don't know if it's something I'm gonna stick with, pick up something cheap, but not too cheap, preferably something used but stilll in good condition.
If I know I'm going to stick with it, buy new, and get something good since the investment would be worth it.

It's not like martial arts where you could hurt yourself or something like that, and from what I understand it's not really like buying a car where if you're just learning, you should go with something used cause you'll be rough on it. A good guitar is a good guitar is a good guitar.

I've been consistantly told across the board, don't go cheap, and don't worry about "beginner" type instruments. There are some beginner packages you can buy, good instrument plus extras and a small amp.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by red5angel
MK, stop being a *******. :rolleyes:

[red5angel]

:cool:

[Oso]

MK, the analogy doesn't work.


delibandit, thanks. My main interest is rock/funk but jazz would be second I suppose. I had looked at the short scale so I'm glad to get some feedback to stay away from that for not. I had thought that it would be better to bump up in quality of instrument as much as I could afford.

red5: I have seen some Fender beginner kits like you describe for less than $300. Seemed like a good thing.

I'm going to go by a music shop where I buy stuff for the school I work at, maybe they will hook me up.

[kungfu cowboy]

Yeah, the better the bass, the better you will sound to yourself, motivating practice, and increasing enjoyment. Fender Precision or Jazz are excellent instruments. If you haven't already, check out anything with Jaco Pastorius (I highly recommend his self-titled debut) and James Jamerson (there's a great play along book (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0881888826/104-4572054-3111940?v=glance) available too! They are both master's of melodic virtuoso jazz/funk bass playing!

[David Jamieson]

just remember to tie it to your balls and stand in a horse stance on 2, 9 foot poles.

[Chang Style Novice]

mmmm...James Jamerson...

[Volcano Admim]

Jena Jameson??

man, hey
start playing that Queen bass line that Vanila Ice stole

duh duh duh
duh duh duh duh duh!
duhduhduh
duh duh
duh duh duh duh duh!

oh yeah

then learn some basic rock/metal stuff like
sabbath and stuff
and others

maybe you can play some Tool
tool is awesome bass
but tool might be a bit harder for begginer

oh man i dig that american gymnast Carly something, that short chick is hot

[Nick Forrer]

The more I do MA's and Music the more I realise the parrallels between the two.

For example: to maximise your pogress you need to start very slowly and get your technique dead on. Once you've done this then and only then can you begin to think about building up speed.

Then once you get to a cretain level of proficiency its very easy to rest on your laurels and just 'improvise/spar' without setting yourself specfic goals/things to work on. I fell into this trap and my guiitar playing suffered as a result.

Also remember to relax: When people concentrate on something they have a natural tendency to tense up. This is the enemy of good technique (just like CMA)

And finally - Its worth learning some theory: this will give you an overall idea of what you should be playing and when, why one sequence of notes sounds good and another doesnt.

[Oso]

ok, so I'm seeing the Fender Precision and Jazz in the $385-$420 range new.

but there is a Ibanez 'jumpstart' pack with the GSR190 base + amp + tuner + headphones + case for just $280

[Chang Style Novice]

I wouldn't fu(k around with new in your position. Find a bass tutor and visit a few pawn shops with the guy. He'll probably have an extra one that you can use for the first couple lessons.

[Oso]

mostly I would agree, but from what I've heard from a musician friend here, I'm looking at $100+ at a pawn shop and I'd still have to buy an amp, though I'm sure a pawn shop would have one.

the Ibanez for $280 would give me a new instrument and a warranty + the amp and extra goodies.

this friend of mine did say he'd be happy to go shopping with me to help find something that wasn't all fu(ked up.

BUT, the Fender Precision comes in a nice sage green......

[Chang Style Novice]

Personally, I wouldn't worry much about a tuner and headphones. If you've got a decent ear, you can tune up to whoever you're playing with, and you've probably got headphones already.

An amp and case are nice to have, though. The thing is, you'll be getting a pretty bottom of the barrel everything at a price like that.

You'll definitely be able to find amps at any used instrument dealer or pawn shop that has a bass. I think you need to take your buddy up on his offer.

Happy plucking!

For fun, check out the Cheesey guitars (http://www.meatexz.com/cheesyguitars/index.html) site.

Dig this soviet-made thunder broom (http://www.meatexz.com/cheesyguitars/roden/i-1.jpg), for example.

[ShaolinTiger00]

Oso, you can't go wrong buying a Fender Squire series Jazz bass, or Percision bass and an amp. you can get this for around $200.00 american and then you can use this instrument until you've really honed your skills and are ready for a true quality instrument.

I've steered several young bass players in this route and they were all very happy.

[Oso]

If you've got a decent ear, you can tune up to whoever you're playing with,

well, the problem is, I don't think I do. :D

cool site




ST00, I've seen those in catalogs as well but thought that they were maybe to low priced to be any good at all. I know that the local music shop has them as well so I can go pick one up to see how it feels. Thanks, I'd written those off but will look again now.

[ShaolinTiger00]

btw: you will NEED to get an electric tuner. mandatory for most guitar and bass players until they can build their "ear" to know what it right & wrong.

don't waste your time with pitch pipes and tuning forks.

[Nick Forrer]

Originally posted by ShaolinTiger00
btw: you will NEED to get an electric tuner................
don't waste your time with pitch pipes and tuning forks.

Stoo has taken the correct and forced it to play guitar until its fingers bleed

[ShaolinTiger00]

The irony is that I'm a drummer.

but I spent alot of time playing the guitar and bass w/ friends and learned alot about them. I've got a few guitars. A Squier Stratocaster and a sweet Ovationelec/acoustic w/ Adonis soundholes..

[Oso]

don't waste your time with pitch pipes and tuning forks.

a what and a who...

which shows you where I am.

Found the Squier P-Bass in a kit w/ amp, tuner etc. for $399.


this is a long time desire that has come to a head and I need to do something about it. not 100% sure why but it's very compelling right now.

[yutyeesam]

Oso,
Very cool! In my opinion (I'm in an original bass oriented funk-indy rock-hip hop band that tours the midwest), the amp makes a VERY VERY big difference.

I think your choice of a fender jazz bass is great! But dude, the amp is totally where it's at. I would *HIGHLY* suggest an Ampeg Rocket amp, someday. The tone can make any sh1tty bass guitar sound badarse!

If you haven't gotten a teacher, let me dispell advice when I teach folks to play bass:

1. Strumming rhythms with the pick/fingers is THE MOST important to get first. This is the equivalent of learning stances in Kung-Fu. You gotta be strong with rhythm first.

2. With the tab you laid out on your signature, it seems like you know how to finger your fretboard (sorry for sounding sexual). Really build the strength of your pinky! That is the hardest finger to develop control over. So really work hard on that, it will definitely pay off.

3. Changing from one string to another fluidly (staying on beat).

4. Work on slide techniques: sliding up to notes, and sliding down to notes. Be able to slide with EVERY finger.

5. Hammer ons: keeping one finger (mainly the index finger) suspended on a fret and hit a different note on that string with a different finger. Kinda hard to explain.

If you find a good teacher who is open to what you want to learn, I'd suggest telling him to teach you these things. He'll invariably give you scales and stuff (I never really care for that stuff). I tend to teach technique and rhythm before I get into scales. I teach them through riffs that I made or other bassists have made.

123

[Shadowboxer]

If you know you will stick with it, get the Fender P-bass. Find a teacher or basic instructional DVD or something. Practice everday to build those callouses on your fingertips, even if it's just 15-30 minutes.

[Oso]

lol, nope, I ripped the tab from a website

I'm a complete musical noob
this is my first foray into an instrument.

still surprised no one has figured out what song it is.



yutyeesam and shadowboxer, thanks for the advice.

[Sam Wiley]

Those Squier packages are great for beginners. If it didn't come with an electronic tuner, then get one.

Personally, I'm not that great a fan of Fender, but I do own a MIM Jazz Bass that is, IMO pretty good quality for one made in Mexico. If you stick with it for a while and finally decide to buy a better bass, my suggestion would be to go with the Standard series Precision or Jazz (those are the MIM ones). $420 is what I paid for mine, which isn't bad for the quality. The sound's pretty good, too.

And if you decide to make bass your main instrument, and want a higher end bass with a lot of versatility that you won't have to sell organs to afford, I'd suggest a Carvin. My main bass is a Carvin LB70PF. What I got cost just a little over $1000, and it's the best bass I've ever played. Besides that, It looks better than any bass I've ever seen on a rack in a store, with extremely highly figured quilted maple.

[TenTigers]

my two cents-the squier is good, stay away from the packages, though. The beginner amp is something most players outgrow within a few months. Try to get something that you can use to play in a garage band with-something that will be heard over the drums, not ear shatterring, Hartke, and Fender make nice powerful combo amps-usually with one 15" speaker.
You can also later on, upgrade your squier with replacement pickups from DiMarzio, or Seymore Duncan. The Precision is a versitile bass, as is the Jazz Bass. As long as it plays well, has good intonation, it will last till you want to totally upgrade-or go to a different type-more strings, fretless, etc. The amp will last till you want a monster stack-if you choose to go that route. This way you don't have to buy one amp, then a slightly larger one, etc
I hope that helps.

[Oso]

awesome ! thanks fellas, I knew there would probably be some bass players amongst our ranks.

final purchase will be mid to late september, I have a big seminar/training week the first week of september and kung fu still comes first. I'll let you know where I go but the Fender Squier is sounding like the most solid bet unless I can find something better at a good price in a pawn shop.

[Sam Wiley]

If you find a bass at a pawn shop, make sure you get to play it amplified before you buy it! You don't want to spend money on a bass that you can't plug in immediately, unless you know about it before hand and have enough in your budget to fix it.

Until you know that this is something you want to stick with, don't buy a big amp. Musician's Friend (I think that's the one) has some pretty good practice amps that are pretty low-priced. Provided you don't get one of those package deals, something like that would be a good way to go.

I still have my first amp, a 100W LabSeries head with a 2x15 Traynor cab, it's still in working order, and sounds great. But 100 Watts is way too much for a practice amp. Of course, I didn't know that at the time, but....

Anyway, If I might, I would suggest getting Dan Erlewine's Guitar Repair Guide

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0879302917/qid=1093043363/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/102-7474230-1166501?v=glance&s=books

And also Bunny Brunel's Complete Book of Bass Essentials published by Mel Bay

http://www.guitarconnection.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=gc&Category_Code=E11

The repair guide will teach you about setting up your instrument so you can save money by not paying someone else to do it for you. And the other book is a great reference while you're learning.

[Ming Yue]

late september huh?

that's about the time our apps in class will start to change....

"ok so after the initial pluck draw your opponent in and slap his ribs like you're playin a Primus song.... "

:D

[David Jamieson]

I'm telling you man, to the balls on 9 foot posts. It's the only way to become a true rocka rolla star.

just ask anyone...who is that.

[TenTigers]

Sam is right-try before you buy-I picked up a marshall jcm 2000 at a pawn shop-had to retube, re-fuse, and fix an output transformer. But now...that thing CRANKS!-350.00-not a bad deal-the transformer cost me under 100, and I re tubed it myself, so I saved some there.

[Christopher M]

Get a low to mid-low level used bass to start. Good instruments are really worth the money; but you want to be sure you're actually going to stick with it before you drop a grand. As has been said, get an electric tuner and tune your bass perfectly every time you pick it up. You need to develop an ear, and this will help. If you can find them cheaper, which is possible, you might want to consider a "sansamp" or "line 6 pod" or something similar rather than an amp - if you'll be playing alone. These are effects boxes which do amp modelling. You can play alone through headphones, plug them into your computer to record (you shouldn't plug your guitar straight into your computer, and never never never plug an amp into your computer -- and recording tracks to practice playing along with is very good practice), and you can plug it into a speaker ("stack") to play out loud.

In terms of what intrument/amplifier/effects you choose to practice with... different setups vary in terms of how difficult they are to play (for instance, in guitars, Fenders are very easy to play, and Gibsons are relatively difficult), and different setups vary in terms of how well they mask failures. This will be very difficult for you to judge, but try and pick a setup with does *not* mask your failures. Basically, where the notes are very clear, and when you play a chord, you hear exactly how poor you've fretted the strings. Different setups may be better for playing (I play pretty muddy), but they will teach you poor technique if they are all you're practicing on. I can't offer specific recommendations here, as I only play guitar.

In terms of practicing, the best advice is never to get stuck in a rut. Most people will find the way of practicing that works for them, and stick with it -- don't do this, always try something new or you'll stop improving. Learning scales and chords and keys is absolutely necessary, but won't teach you how to improvise or write. To learn this, learn a scale, and then play it over and over again. Record a single note, then play it back and solo over that one note. Try to solo using only a singe note -- sounds crazy, but will teach you exquisite intracies. Then try using two notes. And so on. Good luck.

[Ben Gash]

Pawn Shops know very little about instruments and pay far less than a music store for 2nd hand, so basically they're a place to offload duds :rolleyes:
I'd stay away from squire, go for a Yamaha or Ibanez (you get more for your money than Fender). Basically get the best you can afford, preferably giggable quality. If you don't get on with it then you can sell it with very little depreciation (provided you look after it), whereas you'll get next to nothing for a second hand squire or equivalent. The same is true for the amp. They will also save you money in the long run as if you never go pro they'll be all you ever need. You'll need a tuner and a metronome (vital for bass), but you may be able to get these thrown in. By online or mail order. You don't know enough to make a difference if you go into a shop, and you'll save a fortune (maybe as much as a third). Dmand a set up as a condition of sale.
Have fun :)

[Chang Style Novice]

Also - and this is ABSOLUTELY CRITICAL - buy a pair of star-shaped sunglasses.;)

[Oso]

good advice, thanks again.

I've now got a friend who is a musician who is going to help me with the purchase and when he gave me a rundown of what to look for in a good instrument, I just asked if he would go with me.

so, I think I've got some good help to avoid buying a piece of crap at a pawn shop.



CSN, I've already got the glasses and white jumpsuit.

But, I'm having a hard time seriously thinking about taking wing chun...

[Oso]

Originally posted by Ming Yue
late september huh?

that's about the time our apps in class will start to change....

"ok so after the initial pluck draw your opponent in and slap his ribs like you're playin a Primus song.... "

:D

oooh, i'd forgotten about Les...


what'd you do, get on the computer at the airport????

[Oso]

http://www.dillionguitars.com/bass/electric/VMB400/index.html

just saw this bass for $250 used in a stringed instrument only shop.

felt good.