The enginee of SLT

[Hendrik]

So what is the enginee of SLT? how to activate it? What is its uniqueness? How to issue power?


Some has the nail and hammer model. that is great. but then where is the hammer's power generate from?

Some has the grounding model. That is also great. But then is this a trick of lowering the Center of Gravity for demonstrationg or can that grounding be used for adaptive dynamic situtation without preparation such as in demo and limited domain to cover?

HOw is all these link into the SLT? is it the same thing? is it a different training ?


what is the similarity or different between the wing chun way of punching the heavy bag in term of body machenics, structure, COG management, speed control.........compare with the western boxing way? is that way supported in SLT? how to generate power? how to accelerate and pick up speed? How is that enginee of SLT works?

care to share and blue skying?

[PaulH]

http://www.rossboxing.com/heavybagtraining.wmv

Interesting comparative question! So why don't you sky diving first this question while waiting for other people's comments. I provided a clip of boxing heavybag for your reference! =)

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by PaulH
http://www.rossboxing.com/heavybagtraining.wmv

Interesting comparative question! So why don't you sky diving first this question while waiting for other people's comments. I provided a clip of boxing heavybag for your reference! =)


I surrender for my existance.

[PaulH]

nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn00000000000000000000000000! !!!

Don't be shy, Hendrik! I love to hear what you think! Really! =)

[anerlich]

Paul,

Have you read any of Ross E's material? It's excellent for Ma-related fitness training. Not expensive either.

[anerlich]

Is ther a Wing Chun way to hit the heavy bag? Did Leung Jan and Yip Man use heavy bags?

Looking foward to vapour trails appearing in that blue sky...

[PaulH]

Anerlich,

I enjoy mostly his website articles so far. Very well-written and professional. No doubt he would have great tips in the fitness areas as well.

[KenWingJitsu]

Just want to say i love anerlich's post.

"slt engine" lol. funny stuff. heh.

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by PaulH
nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn00000000000000000000000000! !!!

Don't be shy, Hendrik! I love to hear what you think! Really! =)


It is not about a critics topic. It is about an idea sharing topic.

I love to hear from everyone. So, everyone speak up. if one is going to spend 15 mins to 45mins to 2 hours of thier life daily doing SLT. one needs to look into one's investment.


We got to encourage people to speak up and ignore put down post.

it is very likely those who put down doesnt know themself. so focus on sharing not those critics and put down.

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by anerlich
Is ther a Wing Chun way to hit the heavy bag? Did Leung Jan and Yip Man use heavy bags?

Looking foward to vapour trails appearing in that blue sky...

Do you do SLT? Do you use heavy bag for training? if yes, please share.

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by KenWingJitsu


"slt engine" lol. funny stuff. heh.


Are you going to share how funny or not funny it is?

[stonecrusher69]

The way to hit a heavy if you wanted to do so is the way you would hit someone.No need to do some western boxing.The WCK engine and how you use it is defferent then Western boxing,and how they generate power.In Boxing power is generated at the shoulder and by momentum and body weight to generate power.In W.C. you don't use your shoulder that way and power is generated by body stucture,Ging from tendon power,and also on a higher level chi.In Western Boxing they don't have the same concepts as W.C. so how can you conpare.Western boxing is not even a martail art to begin with.It's only a sport.

[anerlich]

In Western Boxing they don't have the same concepts as W.C. so how can you conpare.Western boxing is not even a martail art to begin with.It's only a sport.

Western boxing is indeed a martial art, just not a TCMA. Nearly all boxers train far harder than the average WC student and IMO would prevail in most circumstances in a defense situation because of superior attributes and conditioning, and even perhaps superior technique.

The concepts in Jack Dempsey's "Championship Fighting" and those used to develop the punch in TWC have a good deal of intersection. Read it (link below), educate yourself.

Get hit with either a good Wing Chun punch or a right cross, the effects will be indistinguishable for all practical purposes.


Do you do SLT? Do you use heavy bag for training? if yes, please share.

Yes and Yes. I'll show you mine when you show me yours.


it is very likely those who put down doesnt know themself.

That's a veiled put down, so I guess you just described yourself.

SLT to my mind is a form of positioning and accurate structure, not of power generation (except indirectly as a result of those primary aims). Power generation comes substantially from footwork and the lower body, which are not utilised to their full extent in SLT in most lineages. I know you should not be dead from the waist down in SLT, even if you don't do it with footwork, but it alone will not get you there. We have three forms plus the dummy for good reason.

The mechanics of power generation as my academy employs them are described very well in JD's book, which is out of print but the text can be found on http://go.to/stickgrappler.

There you go. How about making a substantive post yourself, Hendrik?

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by stonecrusher69
In W.C. you don't use your shoulder that way and power is generated by body stucture,Ging from tendon power,and also on a higher level chi.In Western Boxing they don't have the same concepts as W.C. so how can you conpare.Western boxing is not even a martail art to begin with.It's only a sport.


Can you please share what is the significant about Ging from tendon and higher level chi? how is this cultivated in SLT?

How is these Ging from tendon and higher level chi measured and different from Boxing?

What is the different when the punch of a boxer and a WCner hit the heavy bag? the power is different? the penetration is different?.. the body reaction of the person is different?

Thanks
just some blue sky question. ignore it if you think that is too much a question.

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by anerlich

That's a veiled put down, so I guess you just described yourself.




Your subsconcious never forget about always trying to attack me, dont you? :D

Can you please get back to technical stuffs? otherwise, you can ignore my post right?




The mechanics of power generation as my academy employs them are described very well in JD's book, which is out of print but the text can be found on http://go.to/stickgrappler.--------

Thanks.
but,
doesnt seem to find the related subject from the above web.

[anerlich]

"Can you please get back to technical stuffs? otherwise, you can ignore my post right?"

I made a substantive technical post above. Over to you.

My other response was made consciously, not subconsciously :D

Great how you can say whatever you like to insult someone, but if you add a smiley it's all OK.

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by anerlich
"Can you please get back to technical stuffs? otherwise, you can ignore my post right?"

I made a substantive technical post above. Over to you.




Great!

[taltos]

Originally posted by anerlich
Nearly all boxers train far harder than the average WC student and IMO would prevail in most circumstances in a defense situation because of superior attributes and conditioning, and even perhaps superior technique.

Agreed. Pretty forms win medals, not fights. And it doesn't matter how much you know and how good you look when you run out of steam in the first five seconds of a real conflict.

-Levi

[PaulH]

Hendrik,

"Always listen to experts. They're tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it. -Robert Heinlein" =)

[PaulH]

There are two kinds of WC power that I know of - sitting power and motion power. SLT trains at least sitting power structurally and mentally. From an untroubled, detached, but highly focused mind, the SLT sitting power is very grounded and stable structurally; it penetrates deeply like a needlepoint strike whenever it uses.

[anerlich]

Always listen to experts.

I'd like to, were he not too busy admonishing other to share to contribute himself.

[PaulH]

Well, I'm off to the Malibu mountains for 1 week. I guess I will be too busy trying to repel those mosquitos to get back on line anytime soon. So, you folks keep on being busy while I'm away.... I'll see y'all! =D

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by PaulH
Hendrik,

"Always listen to experts. They're tell you what can't be done and why. Then do it. -Robert Heinlein" =)

The expert said, you cannot kill youself and bring yourself alive. cant be done.

Care to do it? :D

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by PaulH
There are two kinds of WC power that I know of - sitting power and motion power. SLT trains at least sitting power structurally and mentally. From an untroubled, detached, but highly focused mind, the SLT sitting power is very grounded and stable structurally; it penetrates deeply like a needlepoint strike whenever it uses.


There is only one type of WC power. the dynamic motion one. That one cover the sitting power. IMHO.


There is a different between Narrowing down focus and an awareness of knowing everything without narrowing down.

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by anerlich
I'd like to, were he not too busy admonishing other to share to contribute himself.


It is always more important to learn how to ask questions then provide solution.

No one has all the solution for there is unsolveable issue.

However, if one know how to ask questions. that lead to all solution. Being solution can means also unsolveable issue.

[Gangsterfist]

I would like to say you are always fighting a person not a system. I have known boxers who break their hands when getting into fights becasue they do not know how to strike right bare knuckled. I know that sounds kind of weird, but I have known boxers to do this.


Also, who is to say that wing chun has not been influenced by western boxing at one point?

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by Gangsterfist


Also, who is to say that wing chun has not been influenced by western boxing at one point?




You can use Boxing to beat other CMA people but wearing a Wing Chun Tee Shirt. why not? Localization Evolution, become another Grand master.

[sihing]

Quote : Anerlich
"1)Western boxing is indeed a martial art, just not a TCMA. 2)Nearly all boxers train far harder than the average WC student and 3)IMO would prevail in most circumstances in a defense situation because of superior attributes and conditioning, and even perhaps superior technique."

On point #1, I can agree with you, just I would replace art with Sport, but it can be used of course in self defense. On point #2, it is questionable, but since boxing is a sport, and is based on physical attributes like speed and strength, anyone practicing it has to be in good shape to make it work. Also some do not train in WC for conditioning purposes, and since the art does not rely on strength or speed attributes as much as boxing does, they do not have to condition themselves to high degrees. It is impossible for you(or anyone) to make a statement like that unless you have personal knowledge of each and every WC school . On point #3, I have to ask you Anerlich, are you really a WC practicioner? On many occasions on this forum you have put down WC practicality and effectiveness, so I have to ask that question. To say that Boxing has superior technique to WC is absurd. It may be second to WC in this context, but isn't even close to being superior. Yes boxing is a sweet science, and can be practical, as all MA can be, but the sophistication of WC is unparallel in combat arts, and is only one of the reasons for its total effectiveness. I will never understand why a person who actually says they practice a art and respects it but at the same time makes put down statements like the one above, along with many other statements, does things like this. Do I disrespect boxers because I believe WC is the most effective MA? Nope. I respect all MA, and Martial Artists, and I would never underestimate a practicioner of any MA if I were to engage them in combat, that would be a grave error if I did. But I do have confidence in WC and my abilities to perform it well, and I have common sense which tells me for example that a straight punch will always beat a round punch if the timing is right. The timing thing is easier for me to apply in the WC straight punch and be successful with it as compared to a boxer/MA trying to time the round punch successfully, physics right. I have less space to travel to apply my technique to the opponent, it's a faster movement to apply because the straight line is shorter than the round line, my straight punch has less windup and is non-telegraphic therefore the opponent has less time to react to it, I can move(walk, run, retreat, etc) while I am chain punching(boxers can't do this with their turning hips/shoulder punching style), shall I go on...If what you said is true then it is also true to say that a well skilled, very conditioned WC practicioner would beat the average boxer? Now is that true because the WC man is more conditioned or more skilled? You tell me cause I already know the answer to that question.

It really bothers me when people make such statements like the one Anerlich made. If you have no faith in WC then just state that and move on to another forum, because from your posts it sure does seem like you don't at times...


James

[Simon]

anerlich - that link doesn't seem to work - found this though:

http://stickgrappler.tripod.com/

[anerlich]

"shall I go on"

You already did before asking.

"boxers can't do this"

Any number of boxing footwork and focus pad drills prove you wrong. You didn't read Jack Dempsey's book, did you?

"You tell me cause I already know the answer to that question."

Not much point telling you then, is there?

"It really bothers me when people make such statements like the one Anerlich made."

You'll get over it.

" If you have no faith in WC then just state that and move on to another forum, because from your posts it sure does seem like you don't at times..."

I'm going to WC class tonight, I gave two private WC lessons this week. I look for weaknesses as well as strengths, is all. So I'm not going to state the words you are trying to put in my mouth. And I'm not bound by your standards, rules or opinions. If you claim to have faith, why does what I say affect you?

"move on to another forum"

you wish, but I have far too much fun winding up the gullible here. I'm on the Underground, Sherdog and Bladeforums anyway ...

[anerlich]

"but I have known boxers to do this. "

Mike Tyson did, I think. anyone can bust their hand. A number of prominent WC people have at various times.

"Also, who is to say that wing chun has not been influenced by western boxing at one point"

Only fools think that others have nothing to offer.


Simon - thanks for the heads up.

[Stevo]

Originally posted by sihing
On point #2, it is questionable, but since boxing is a sport, and is based on physical attributes like speed and strength, anyone practicing it has to be in good shape to make it work. Also some do not train in WC for conditioning purposes, and since the art does not rely on strength or speed attributes as much as boxing does, they do not have to condition themselves to high degrees. It is impossible for you(or anyone) to make a statement like that unless you have personal knowledge of each and every WC school .

From what some pretty experienced guys from my Wing Chun school who've sparred with boxers have mentioned, boxers can be hard to beat. They can slip in tight hooks (a jab that turns into a hook just as it nears your head even after you've deflected it) and sneaky uppercuts that can get under and through your guard and knock you out in a split second. They're well conditioned and powerful and highly mobile as well as being relaxed, fluid and non-committal and can flow into another movement and deliver it with power if the first one fails, similar to Wing Chun people.

But I still like Wing Chun. :)

[Matrix]

Originally posted by sihing
On point #2, it is questionable, but since boxing is a sport, and is based on physical attributes like speed and strength, anyone practicing it has to be in good shape to make it work. Also some do not train in WC for conditioning purposes, and since the art does not rely on strength or speed attributes as much as boxing does, they do not have to condition themselves to high degrees. It is impossible for you(or anyone) to make a statement like that unless you have personal knowledge of each and every WC school . James,
anerlich said that on "average", boxers were better conditioned. So you don't need to go to every WC school to validate it. Also, if it makes you feel better that the guy punching your head in is just training in a "sport" then more power to you. The punches will be just as effective, regardless of what name you want to assign to them.

*Bill