my workout routine

[wind draft]

What do everyone think of this workout routine? Any comments or tips are greatly appreciated! Thanks.


Abs
75 crunches
75 right oblique crunches
75 left oblique crunches
75 leg raise crunches

Stretch
25 northern kicking drills

Horse stance
75 reverse punches
75 double reverse punches

Bow and arrow stance
75 leopard strikes
75 double dragon strikes
75 single-knuckle strikes

Inner-horse stance
75 sun punches
75 palm strikes
75 finger-tip strikes

Right lead fighting stance
75 step punches
75 step punches and reverse punches
75 front kicks
75 reverse kicks
75 roundhouses
75 sidekicks

Left lead fighting stance
75 step punches
75 step punches and reverse punches
75 front kicks
75 reverse kicks
75 roundhouses
75 sidekicks

[rubthebuddha]

if your goal is to simply get better at your techniques, you're on the right track.

for the sake of staving off boredom, i like to narrow down my training and do just a few techniques (not like wing chun has many techniques to begin with) and just work the snot out of them for the day, then work a different few the next day. it keeps my workouts somewhat new each time, and if i can still do individual techniques correctly even though the individual muscles are dead tired, they're more likely to be done that way when i really need them -- very much a muscle memory thing.

[IronFist]

Why are you doing such high reps for abs?

[FooFighter]

Originally posted by IronFist
Why are you doing such high reps for abs?

Of course to tone up, dude.

[Vash]

Originally posted by FooFighter
Of course to tone up, dude.

*gouges out eyes*

[Chief Fox]

I don't see any finger tip push ups in there.

Also, are you kicking air or a heavy bag. Kicking air would work on form and balance but if you're kicking a bag now you're adding power.

[wind draft]

thank you for some of the replies. If you don't think that many crunches are necessary, could you suggest something for me?

As with the kicks, they are all done on the heavy bag. Should I alternate days. Monday kicks on the heavy bag and tuesday kick the air and so on?

Anything else anyone think I should add to my routine? Thanks.

[KaiKhoon]

Those high rep crunches arn't going to do anything for you. Add weight to your crunches or be satisfied with no results. Not to mention you have to push yourself to the very max in order to have your muscles grow, and it seems like you just rounded off at 75. Add weight and do as many as possible, don't just stop at a number of reps because it ends in 5 or 0. And make sure you either add weight or reps every workout or your ab's aren't going anywhere.

[Toby]

Originally posted by KaiKhoon
Those high rep crunches arn't going to do anything for you. Add weight to your crunches or be satisfied with no results.KaiKhoon has done 100 crunches with the correct.

[KaiKhoon]

What ?

[blooming lotus]

I'm a little infamous for my no-point high rep sets of abs myself. When I have an ab-doer I do up to 3000 a day/ night/ sesh. But to think it's responsible for anything more than muscular endurance in your core , is incorrect. I also get toned, but I think that's more about what i'm eating. When I've ripped tightest was when I was recruiting for the NZ army doing only 118 crunches, some heavy boxing sets on a bag and a few very lighter sets at night.

An abdoer if you can find one, will allow you to play with resistance though and I think I see the most benifit there with obliques. Awesome machine for all its' primativeness and I'm looking forward to getting one shipped out the minute I get back to Australia.

Ps. The rest of the routine sounds good. How long does it take you to do all that??

[Brad]

What's an ab-doer? Is that a specific type of machine where you're from or are you just being general(any machine that works the abs :p)

[Toby]

Originally posted by KaiKhoon
What ? Just a forum thing. Explaining it ruins it. I was just glad to see a noob posting good stuff.

[Toby]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
I'm a little infamous for my no-point high rep sets of abs myself. When I have an ab-doer I do up to 3000 a day/ night/ sesh. But to think it's responsible for anything more than muscular endurance in your core , is incorrect. I also get toned, but I think that's more about what i'm eating. When I've ripped tightest was when I was recruiting for the NZ army doing only 118 crunches, some heavy boxing sets on a bag and a few very lighter sets at night.*Pukes from hearing "the word"*

:eek: Who are you and what have you done with BL?

[IronFist]

^ Did you misread what she wrote? She still thinks her high reps are responsible for her being "toned."

[blooming lotus]

no I said it was more dietary combined with yrs of gerenral conditioning. But the high rep sets give me core endurance muscularly and contribute to cardio endurance.

An ab - doer is a particluar machine made in Aus. It's a seated machine with a side half arc bar from the back the has a flexible spine. It does lateral and back / forward motions at 360 degree range. If you get into it from the front, it's like a boxing workout. If you bring it up to a sofa, and lay off the sofa on the chair bit of the ab-doer, arms long to the side , and add a twist, you can get an awesome oblique work out. If you come straight with it in the same position, you can get into your lower abs on resisted decline or incline ( where most get that pot ).
I also put it on an angle, hike a knee on the chair and do lightly resisted tricep extensions or lay off the back on my stomache ( hands under chin ) , feet on the handles and get a good lower back extension workout. or I use it for some good inner ( or even outer) thigh work, equating to a weighted pulley like you might find on a nordelaus. It's not enough resistence to call it serious weight, but it's enough to sweat hard for hours.

It's had a bad wrap from some folks here, but if you're interested you can pick one up for about aus$ 300 + 12 kgs of p&p from www.danoz.com

Ps: there's also an ab-swing ( probably less effexctive) but check it out if you're interested.

[KaiKhoon]

You can waste your time doing 3000 crunches a day, or you can add weight and do 20 and as long as you bring yourself to muscle failure you will get the same results. Although doing 3000 probably takes several times longer, obviously.

You also say that crunches without weight help your cardio ? Wrong.. you can push yourself to 90% of your cardio max 3 times a day(crunches won't even get you to 90%, I doubt even 60%-70%), and it won't get you as good of results as if you had run 1 time at 100% of your cardio max.

Weighted sit ups will tone you just as well if not better, in a much quicker time. If you're looking for endurnace im not sure which is better, although obviously 3000 crunches sounds like the better way to go, how much do you actually know about the body and it's muscle growth ?

[Toby]

Iiiron, read it again:
Originally posted by blooming lotus
When I have an ab-doer I do up to 3000 a day/ night/ sesh. But to think it's responsible for anything more than muscular endurance in your core , is incorrect. I also get toned, but I think that's more about what i'm eating.She said 3000 ab-doers only builds endurance (the real BL would say strength). She said she's toned from diet (the real BL would say 3000 ab-doers). She's an imposter! :mad: :D

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by KaiKhoon
You also say that crunches without weight help your cardio ? Wrong..........



and it won't get you as good of results as if you had run 1 time at 100% of your cardio max.

Weighted sit ups will tone you just as well if not better, in a much quicker time. If you're looking for endurnace im not sure which is better, although obviously 3000 crunches sounds like the better way to go, how much do you actually know about the body and it's muscle growth ?

I don't know what you're trying to say, but besides keto diets if there's a thing or speciality muscle group or fitness facet I know about , it's abs and running ( both spint and distance). A hard sweat ab based boxing similiation sesh even free weight without the resistance 'll give you a better cardio sesh than your run. Say what you like from naevity but it is you who is wrong and I don't care to elaborate further...


freakin know all ( but nothings :rolleyes: )

as you see it :cool:

[Serpent]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
A hard sweat ab based boxing similiation sesh even free weight without the resistance 'll give you a better cardio sesh than your run.
What exactly is this? Can you describe in clear terms what you mean by this?

[blooming lotus]

no. It's been done.. get off your horse and do a re-read.

[IronFist]

Originally posted by KaiKhoon
You can waste your time doing 3000 crunches a day, or you can add weight and do 20 and as long as you bring yourself to muscle failure you will get the same results. Although doing 3000 probably takes several times longer, obviously.

That's wrong. Toby, did you miss that one?


Weighted sit ups will tone you just as well if not better, in a much quicker time. If you're looking for endurnace im not sure which is better, although obviously 3000 crunches sounds like the better way to go, how much do you actually know about the body and it's muscle growth ?

Wrong again. I think you should be asking yourself how much do you actually know about the body and its (no apostrophe) muscle growth?

[Serpent]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
no. It's been done.. get off your horse and do a re-read.
What? Where has it been done?

[Toby]

Nope. Just cutting the new guy some slack for now. Plus, what with my "discussions" with Eyebrows and now Foo in full swing I don't have time for reasonable arguments about the correct :D.

[KaiKhoon]

Why so much hostility ?

I know that in order for your muscles to grow the fastest, you have to push them to your absolute max, you seem to be saying that you cannot do that with weighted crunchs/sit-ups. I'm not a big genius on body growth, and although the last comment in my posts sounded arrogent, I meant how much does any of us shmoe's know about the body's muscle growth.

I have read several body building books, by mike mentzer and others, as well as articles from tom platz, and other famous weight trainers, and I was simply relaying what they all said. It's quite obvious that they KNOW the best way to build ab muscle, and they do it with weighted crunch variations. Now don't get all hostile on me, you can go tell some of the best body builder's in the world that they are wrong.

I have done crunches and ab exercises for a few years, and only recently gained results with weighted crunches in the last 2 months.

--

I forget who commented about something to do with boxing being better cardio than running, it all depends on what you do, how you do it, and what % of your maximum capacity you push yourself too. All I meant to point out was that doing crunches isn't going to give you as good of a cardio workout as a jog that you do to your max.

Edit: The books that I've read also said that 90% of people that train don't know how to trigger maximum muscle growth and often think that doing a million reps will be the best path. So I understand that you are disagreeing and set in your way. Once again just relaying information from professional body builder's, throwing out an opinion, please no hostility.

[Serpent]

OK, let's break this down a bit.


Originally posted by KaiKhoon
Why so much hostility ?

Because this is the KFM forum! ;)


I know that in order for your muscles to grow the fastest, you have to push them to your absolute max,

There are two types of max - max reps and max load. They will each produce different results.


you seem to be saying that you cannot do that with weighted crunchs/sit-ups. I'm not a big genius on body growth, and although the last comment in my posts sounded arrogent, I meant how much does any of us shmoe's know about the body's muscle growth.

Well, some of us know quite a lot. Weighted crunches will help you use the muscle under max load. This is good for building strength and triggering hypertrophy, depending on how many reps and how much load you use.


I have read several body building books, by mike mentzer and others, as well as articles from tom platz, and other famous weight trainers, and I was simply relaying what they all said. It's quite obvious that they KNOW the best way to build ab muscle, and they do it with weighted crunch variations. Now don't get all hostile on me, you can go tell some of the best body builder's in the world that they are wrong.

Well, they're selling a book based on their image when it was probably a team effort of trainers and other people that formulated the programs. Not saying they're useless, but caveat emptor.


I have done crunches and ab exercises for a few years, and only recently gained results with weighted crunches in the last 2 months.

What results have you got. I know what you would have got, but what have you noticed?


I forget who commented about something to do with boxing being better cardio than running,

That was blooming lotus. Ignore her, because she's completely insane,


it all depends on what you do, how you do it, and what % of your maximum capacity you push yourself too. All I meant to point out was that doing crunches isn't going to give you as good of a cardio workout as a jog that you do to your max.

You're quite right here. Crunches are not a cardio workout, unless your name is Ironfist, when even blinking is a cardio workout.


Edit: The books that I've read also said that 90% of people that train don't know how to trigger maximum muscle growth and often think that doing a million reps will be the best path. So I understand that you are disagreeing and set in your way. Once again just relaying information from professional body builder's, throwing out an opinion, please no hostility.
You're right. 90% of people have only partial knowledge, or virtually none. Also, 85% of all statistics are just made up on the spot.

Multiple reps will build muscular endurance. This won't help with maximal strength gains or hypertrophy beyond a fairly low ceiling point.

[Toby]

Well, there's your problem :). Lots of us here "dislike" bodybuilding as a method. Most of us here are either (a) low rep high resistance or (b) high rep low resistance. Not in the middle. I dunno that Iron had a problem with your 20 rep being good statement, but more with saying that 20 weighted reps == 3000 unweighted. The results won't be the same. Here's a timely analogy: 100m runners vs. 15,000m runners. Why don't they have the same physique?

[blooming lotus]

Great analogy.


There have been many or several discussions about the best "cardio " endurance exercise on these boards, and if I remember correctly, kick boxing was first and a normal boxing routine wasn't far off that. The ab - doer simulates boxing but with light pulling resistance . While we're at it, if you want to build hand strike speed, again because of the resistence you have, whilst when really hitting there's none, it's also not a bad method.

Ps: don't worry about the terrible way some people talk here and don't take it to heart if you can help it. I guess they just haven't learnt to play nicely yet ;) :cool:

[Toby]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
Great analogy.This new BL is no fun. Agreeing with me means I've got nothing to attack :D.


Originally posted by blooming lotus
There have been many or several discussions about the best "cardio " endurance exercise on these boards, and if I remember correctly, kick boxing was first and a normal boxing routine wasn't far off that.Pretty sure it's running (or similar). Leg muscles being some of the largest in the body tax the system more than upper body work ever can. Anything that neglects legs won't match leg-intensive exercise. Of course, boxing with dynamic footwork will be good too. But someone once posted that wing chun chain punches are the hardest. Probably rub :mad: :p. Even though it's my art, I can't quite agree. I'm not saying other things aren't hard - hell I do rowing for my HIIT - but leg workouts are the go AFAIK.

Originally posted by blooming lotus
While we're at it, if you want to build hand strike speed, again because of the resistence you have, whilst when really hitting there's none, it's also not a bad method.
What? Translation from blinglish please? :confused:

[blooming lotus]

it's not unsensical , you're just not following that part of the conversation. Using the ab - doer for boxing simulation is what I was refering to.

[blooming lotus]

Ps. I do agree with what you're saying in part, that usually for a boxing routine, to max cardio you'd need to incorporate some dynamic footwork, but I have some running experience myself and using a resisted boxing routine from sitted static lower , is a competitve cardio boost and particularly benificial for core muscular endurance, a bigger group than your legs ( though don't quote me because I'd have to check an antomy chart ) . Point is, it's big enough to have ample whole - system impact. It does run like a hiit load, come static run swing and the cardio benifit should be obvious.

[Toby]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
it's not unsensical ...:D

Yeah, I wasn't saying boxing wasn't good. Just that legwork is gunna tax you more AFAIK. I can't believe I'm sort of agreeing with you :eek:.

[KaiKhoon]

Well, they're selling a book based on their image when it was probably a team effort of trainers and other people that formulated the programs. Not saying they're useless, but caveat emptor.

They build their routine's themselves, they don't have trainers because most of them knew more than trainers, Mike Mentzer was one of the most knowledgable body builders ever. They sometimes had a skinny chinese kid that would help them do cheat reps after they hit muscle failure. Most often they have a group of buddies that they work out with (at Gold's gym, which is loaded with Body builders) to encourage and push them to muscle failure and past.


Lots of us here "dislike" bodybuilding as a method.

If you want to tone up and look like your muscular there is no quicker more effective method..

If you honestly believe that doing 3000 crunches will get you that 6 pack you need faster than weighted crunches, and you must hit muscle failure, then I don't know what to say to you.

-------



What results have you got. I know what you would have got, but what have you noticed?

I've posted a picture in the "Progress" thread's last post. that was a couple weeks ago, and about 1 and 1/2 months ago you couldn't see any sort of ab definition. I've increased the weight and form of my sit-ups, you can now see the beginning lines of a 6 pack, which I'm sure would be more visible if i didn't have that smoothing layer of fat due to my horrid diet that I wish I could change.

[IronFist]

Visible abs comes from two things:

1. Low enough boydfat to see the muscle
2. Developed enough muscles to be see.

#2 is usually not a problem for people.

[Toby]

Originally posted by KaiKhoon
If you want to tone up and look like your muscular there is no quicker more effective method.Please don't say "tone" ;). Most people here are more about performance than look. I recall reading on a bodybuilding forum something like "I'd rather look like I can bench 600lb than look like a heavy weight class powerlifter and actually be able to bench 600lb". Most people here are the opposite of that viewpoint. Performance first, look last.


Originally posted by KaiKhoon
If you honestly believe that doing 3000 crunches will get you that 6 pack you need faster than weighted crunches, and you must hit muscle failure, then I don't know what to say to you.
What Iron said. Diet.

[Toby]

Originally posted by KaiKhoon
... muscle failure ...There are other methods besides going to failure.

[KaiKhoon]

Of course to tone up, dude.


Please don't say "tone" .

He said that's why he was doing his work out, so in this case, his goal was to tone.

[Toby]

That was a different guy, not the original poster. Anyway, it doesn't matter who says it, it's still a dirty word ;).

[KaiKhoon]

So it was, I am new around here and am not much for other names. My belief was that he said it, and so that was why I was using it, you cannot critisize me there.

And yes I know, you will not get chizzled ab's without improving your diet.


There are other methods besides going to failure.

Enlighten me :).

[Toby]

It's all good, KK. Don't worry too much. It's just a word like "lower abs" or "upper abs" ;).

Failure may be a good method to maximise your hypertrophic program (then again it may not - not my area). Like I said a lot of us are about strength training (as opposed to bodybuilding). Many subscribe to Pavel Tsatsouline's work, especially Power to the People (PTP). It's been done to death, so search the forum. Suffice to say, I rarely go to failure but lift quite heavy (for me :p). I lift every day. I lift the powerlifts. Almost no-one here does isolation exercises. Compound exercises are the go. I can't remember the last time I did a bicep curl of any sort. Blah, blah, blah, I'm just repeating what I've said before so I'll stop and let you search (try "PTP").

If you've got a specific question about anything, let us know.

:)

[KaiKhoon]

I'm always looking to expand my knowledge of fitness.

One question I have is, when you say that you look for performance before look(very reasonable). You mean performance in fights ? Or what kind of performance ? I do High-Intensity training, which I'm sure you know is high weight, low reps, going to failure. My muscles improve performance, and strength with every workout because I consistantly progress the intensity of my workouts by adding weight or reps each time. What performance does this strategy lack ?
I can only think of 1 area that I'm not sure if it helps or not, and that would be endurance, I cannot be sure of this because besides my High-Intensity training, I train hard in class, and hold my stances as long and low as possible, which I also do at random times between classes.

Once again, I'm just trying to learn, I don't mean to be saying that my road is superior, and you should all quit yoursand join me :confused:. I think that makes sence.

[blooming lotus]

your right. it lacks in both muscular endurance and cardio. Performance to what end will always be a contentious issue on these boards and some will provide arguments for both sides. Fight performance is greatly skill but generally the other areas you should consider are actual strength, cardio endurance, muscluar endurance and speed.

has anyone seen that dimmak discussion?? no relevance, just lost the thread :confused: :D

[Toby]

Originally posted by KaiKhoon
One question I have is, when you say that you look for performance before look ...It's an excuse for my fat gut :D. Seriously, I'm twice as old as you. At your age you can probably follow a more intense program than me. Doing the program I do I experience almost no muscle soreness or fatigue (from weights anyway). That means I can ride my bike in to uni each day less than an hour after finishing my workout. It also means I can train MA with no pain. It also means I can do HIIT training twice a week effectively. Plus whatever else I want to do. In other words, I get strength without the usual DOMS side effects of my old traditional weights program. Maybe at your age you don't get sore muscles. When I started MA I was still doing my old workout. On legs day I could hardly stand in class later that night. The next couple of days I'd struggle on my bike and for any other workout I wanted to do. Now I can lift heavier than ever before. There are disadvantages, but they are minor compared to the advantages. E.g. you brought up endurance - my weights don't help at all with that. I do HIIT for that and MA helps too.

Anyway, at your age it's probably not the best program for you. Just saying that there are different methods that are also effective. Maybe when you're old and sore like me you'll need to follow an "easier" ;) program like PTP.

[blooming lotus]

Iron has a fairly well weighted regime but freely admits his cardio aint so flashy.

To relate them like that is misleading.

On the loads and age thing though,
1stly, I do agree that yrs of conditioning will give you a certain level of available strengths but as we get older alot of people seem to drop off their load because " the body doesn't perform as well". Of course certain things happen to us as we age, but here in china it's not at all uncommon to see quite older 60 + men AND women, particularly in the farmer class, doing extremely hard physical labour and looking as toned as you well worked 25 yr olds. Maybe this deserves a thread of its' own, but do you think it's more psychological and changing priorities??

[fa_jing]

Bicep curls are good preventative medicine against bicep tears during deadlifting, from what I hear. I've heard you should do them for 3 months out of the year as a powerlifter.

I really don't do them at all myself, though.

[KaiKhoon]

I really lack in cardio, besides the first 15 minutes of each class I get no running in. I had to quit skateboarding because it's taken its toll on my right knee, and that is effecting my kung fu. I quit soccer do to the lack of community interest and the leagues of higher age group are all down hill. Now that I hear boxing simulation is a good way to get cardio endurance, I might start doing that.

Muscular endurance I get mostly grow doing my stances as hard as possible, and a do bar hang when I can.

I'm starting a new program once school starts again, and I have access to their gym. I will combine more cardio and endurance into it, because I have learned that my program isn't the best for MA when it's all by itself, and Toby's right because I am looking to be able to spar better with this training.

[Toby]

Originally posted by fa_jing
Bicep curls are good preventative medicine against bicep tears during deadlifting, from what I hear. I've heard you should do them for 3 months out of the year as a powerlifter.What do you know about deadlifting? :mad: :D

I actually had a sentence about isolation exercises to address deficiencies but I deleted it for some reason.