Any WC guy here spar with a boxer?

[cha kuen]

Has any WC guy here sparred with a western boxer before? I'm only interested in hearing from people who have.

THanks

[Eric]

I have had the chance to do that. The guy I sparred with didn't have any real ranking anywhere but he was good and had been training at a boxing gym. I decided I would just use wing chun and not try to out box him or turn it into a kicking match. First thing I discovered is that I wasn't prepared for hooks. Jabs were no problem I just grabed and pulled him off balance while striking him. Or I would just redirect it and open him up. I was wearing some light sparring gloves, don't try to take on a boxer while wearing big gloves, you will lose the use of a lot of your techniques. I didn't have the endurance to keep up very long, he certainly had that going for him. I punched faster and didn't have to worry about setting up for a good shot from my power hand since both hands are equally powerful. He tried feinting which just got him hit. He wasn't prepared for me to be on him constantly, which is what wore me out, and the reason boxers don't fight like that. I did manage to put him down before I had a heart attack though. He wasn't down for ten but long enough to decide that I won. Granted, he is not a pro, I would get smacked around by a pro for sure. In a few years when he has some experience, he may be a hell of a challenge.

[chongnoi]

I used to train at a Gym that had both boxing and Wing chun. The boxers and Wing chun guys would sometimes spar against each other. There is a lot that Wing Chun students can learn from boxers. If you think your wing chun is great and undefeatable-go up against a boxer-you will be severely humbled! OF course I beleive Wing Chun is a superior fighting system and has much in common with western boxing (IMHO Wing Chun is the Chinese version of Boxing) but to be good at wing chun, one must train hard like a boxer does along with Wing Chun skills. I do not mean we are to do boxing, just train hard core in our wing chun as boxers train in their art. Most black belts in martial arts styles would get their butt beat pretty bad against somebody who has trained in western boxing hardcore for only a few months. When you are doing your Wing Chun. ask yourself if this could be used against a boxer, does this work? how does a boxer fight? Because a street fighter with boxing experience is a real threat. Hell with the karate and TKD guys, but against a golden gloves guy you had better be prepared!

[rogue]

When I worked out with a WC guy he had some trouble with the right cross. I've also noticed traditional karate people being thrown off by it. One of my fellow karateka said the angle of the punch was different for him. Anybody else?


Rogue, you're an @ss!! Watchman

Adventure is just a romantic name for trouble. It sounds swell when you write about it, but it's hell when you meet it face to face in a dark and lonely place.
Louis L'Amour

BTW, did I mention that Rogue was an @ss? Watchman

[Watchman]

>>>a WC guy he had some trouble with the right cross.

Anybody else?<<<

*Watchman raises hand*

Yup, I ran into the same trouble in my adventerous days. The "problem" with the right cross, at least the way I experienced it, was the fact that it's easy for a boxer to bob sharply to the side and throw that cross which sneaks through your wedge on that "shadow" angle that isn't quite directly into your arm - and isn't quite on the "cutting" angle that crosses over the wedge.

If you imagine holding a triangle with with the base across your shoulders and the point toward the opponent touching his center (Wing Chun's engaging hand position) you'll see that a good right cross set up with a sharp bob of the shoulders will cut on a slight oblique angle from the triangle's outside edge in. If the punch came straight in the wedge would deflect it. If the punch had a more severe angle (more of a hooking motion) it would intersect the edge of the triangle and force a change (bong sau, quan sau, etc).

When those crosses kept slipping in on me I found my biggest fault to be trying to chase the hands and not "pressuring forward" towards the boxer's coreline (the imaginary reference point that intersects the opponent's center of gravity). The punch is too fast alot of the time (especially from a boxer who knows how to use his footwork to "lead" you into the punch) to try and readjust with a tan sau.

What I found to be successful (at least for me) was to stay properly focused on chasing that center rather than the hands, and when those crosses come in real fast and tight, to use a sharp turn of the hips (yiu ma) with a simultaneous punch (chum kiu) or biu sau (biu tze) that acts as an intercepting maneuver on the striking arm. If you've got the right structure your attacking motion will slip his cross and bury your hand in his throat (or in his nose if you're "playing nice").

D@mn boxers anyway.

I've had my ribs cracked on three seperate occasions - once from a boxer's body hook, once from a muay thai clinch/knee, and once from my little brother power slamming me onto a concrete floor.

Boxers, Muay Thai fighters, and little brothers should be banned from training all together. :mad: :rolleyes:

>>>When you are doing your Wing Chun. ask yourself if this could be used against a boxer, does this work? how does a boxer fight? Because a street fighter with boxing experience is a real threat.<<<

Chongnoi makes a good point. You have to get out of your bubble once in a while and see how your Wing Chun works. Wing Chun has everything you'll ever need IF you get out and see how you have to actually take it to people trying to drop you like a bad habit.

http://www.wckfc.com/masters/man/Sec2-1.GIF

One is weak because he makes preparation against others;
he has strength because he makes others prepare against him.
-- Sun-Tzu

[Eric]

Some very good posts....

I forgot about the cross... I did get smacked a couple times with one.. I made my other message sound like I really beat up this guy I sparred with, which wasn't the case. He got several good shots on me as well. It was no piece of cake beating him. To be honest we were evenly matched. But on the street where my life is in danger, the fight wouldn't last long. The benefit of wing chun is that we learn how to end fights very quickly. Boxing doesn't seem to be as concerned with that.


I agree with Chongnoi there is a great deal that a wing chun stylist can learn from a boxer. I am sure that if I went against a golden gloves fighter right now I would be beat. Their idea of sparring involves full power blows for several rounds.. If wing chun doesn't train like that you will get beat. Although, if you use your kicks and come in on the fighter for short range where wing chun is its best you may be able to survive a round or two.

Another point to consider is that most street fighters will try to fight like a western boxer. No matter what experience level they are at. It would be a good idea to at least have an understanding of boxing so that you can spot someone with experience. Someone that knows how to box will move and throw punches differently from a novice.

just my opinion..

[popsider]

"Most black belts in martial arts styles would get their butt beat pretty bad against somebody who has trained in western boxing hardcore for only a few months."

Do you think so - I don't.

[JiuKaiMan]

When you train only in the kwoon against other Wing Chun practitoners you will only be good at defeating other wing chun practitioners. It makes sense.
When you come across someone who punches different or fights in another range other than Wing Chun you might be surprised by their tactics and the unfimiliarity of their tools.
It is very important to work out with and spar against other styles adn fighters.