Instructor caught lying. What would you do?

[X-Warrior]

What would you do if you catch your instructor lying about very important things that make up who he is, where he learned from or where he came from? Names will not be mentioned but a CMA instructor was caught lying about titles given to him and where he learned from, going as far as claiming to have instructed in monasteries in China during childhood - later proven to be false. Brags about being the best student his instructor had and bad mouths about all the others now teaching the same art from his school.

After finding untrue claims about your instructor such as the above mentioned, would you still stick with him or would you switch to a different school?

-X-

[Cody]

get out and leave it behind, including any bitterness. You are free and ex-instructor is trapped by his own lies.

Cody

[David Jamieson]

Cody = wise

[Go Jun Long]

I would say you should have and should in the future do your homework better on whom you put your live and money in the hands of. As for what to do about it, its your choice on what facts you have at hand. I am sure each circumstance is different.

[cerebus]

Leave him by all means. However, I would make sure that the truth became common knowledge to all, including HIS instructor and school brothers as well as any current and potential students.

If he can't stand on his own merit and his actual rank/ titles, then he has no business teaching the next generation and propogating his lies.

[Brad]

If you decide to tell others though, make sure you have solid evidence first.

[Royal Dragon]

I would start a Nation wide movement dedicated to exposeing his fraud and get him shut down.............................................. ......................................Oh wait, I already did that to OYD/Chung Moo Quan (Cost them more schools than can be counted too!!) :p

[Shaolindynasty]

I like to steer clear of anybody claiming to teach in "monistaries or temples" these days. Unless of course they are well recongized like the shaolin monks or the wudang guy here in the USA.

[Royal Dragon]

I agree, especially if it's a White guy making the claim.

[TenTigers]

Are we actually talking about a real Chinese Martial Arts instructor, or simply a Kempo instructor who claims to be the US Representative for Shaolin, and goes on tours to China, and trains with Shi-(your name here) learning bad wu-shu, under the guise of Kung-Fu? Because if it's the latter, just walk on and be glad you are that much smarter. If it's the former...well then just walk on and be glad you are that much smarter!
It does no use to start a smear campaign, because the general public WANTS guys like these. They want to think they are learning the exact stuff that Kwai Chang-Caine did, and you ain't gonna burst their bubbles. Hmmm, then again, Royal Dragon says he was successful. Can you elaborate? I know of a few "Shaolin" phonies who I would love to see fall by the wayside.

[David Jamieson]

I agree, especially if it's a White guy making the claim.

you think asians are immune to bullsh.itting? lol

because they aren't and there are a whole lot of bs no kungfu asians running around out there along with all the other crackpots white or not.

In any unregulated, unorganized type of event structure, you are gonna have people who capatilize on the ignorance of others.

Unfortunately, there is no greater pool of ignorant people than aspiring martial artists excited from their first jet li flick. lol

sad to say it, but there you have it.

cheers

[Royal Dragon]

I started speakng out against Chung Moo Quan years ago, and a huge following of people woke up because of me, and began to speak out against them too. Soon schools across the country were closing, and breaking away from the cult of CMQ.

We now have a loose organisation of people all learning new REAL styles. We talk, meet on ocasion and share ideas.

I'm passing Wu Bu Chuan to a school owner this week (if all goes well) to teach as a replacement for Chung moo's basic stance sets. He will then pass it on to everyone else who is looking to replace the Chung Moo quan curriculem with legit material one step at a time.

If all goes well, I will be teaching sets to former Chung Moo guys on a semi regular basis starting next year sometime.

Mean while, the actual Chung moo Quan schools (Now called Oom Yung Doe) are suffering badly. Schools close, relocate and basically are dieing a slow death because of what I started.

I'm not sayng I did intentionally. I just spoke my mind, talked abuot my experiances and exposed the BS. Those smart enough to listen did so, became enraged and followed my lead.

As a lose network now, we convert people out of the cult on a regular basis, and have been for several years now.

[David Jamieson]

would it be possible for you to take care of the "temple kungfu" issue? lol :p

[SPJ]

The best will not claim himself the best.

The more you know, the humbler you are.

Usually teachers speak of the greatness of their teachers.

My teachers seldom talk about themself or their classmates.

Are these clues helpful?

Half empty bottle makes loud noises.

While a full bottle makes no noises.


:D

[Royal Dragon]

I wasn't personally involved with Temple Kung Fu. One of thier guys would have to do it.

Also, I don't think that kind of thing can be planned. You have to speak from your heart and what happens happens. To set out intentionally to undermind a group I think would lead to failure. People can tell the difference.

[Shaolinlueb]

if i found an instructor bragging how good he was an bad mouthing hios fellow kung fu brothers and sisters i would have stopped right then or never went there. but otherwise to answer question, leave and not look back like JGF said.

[Royal Dragon]

Is he "Bad mouthing" or critiquing skill?

[X-Warrior]

Thanks all for the replies, yes I am no longer a student of this school. As I mentioned I will not mention names but this was a guy born in China, immigrated to the US and started to teach there. The lies have been going on for decades but now with the invention of the internet those other long distance students started to notice these claims and the truth came out. The guy is slowly getting exposures and I think he is in deeper trouble than he thinks for he sold videos, manuals and books world wide with his lies - there, enough evidence as well. I will definitely start a campaign to shed light to the truth.

For all of you on this forum, just please do your homework before you start investing in any schools - or if you are a member of one already - particularty in the Jook Lum branch of Southern Mantis (hint, hint!).

Again, thanks all for the discussion and advise.

-X-

[Shaolinlueb]

Originally posted by X-Warrior
Thanks all for the replies, yes I am no longer a student of this school. As I mentioned I will not mention names but this was a guy born in China, immigrated to the US and started to teach there. The lies have been going on for decades but now with the invention of the internet those other long distance students started to notice these claims and the truth came out. The guy is slowly getting exposures and I think he is in deeper trouble than he thinks for he sold videos, manuals and books world wide with his lies - there, enough evidence as well. I will definitely start a campaign to shed light to the truth.

For all of you on this forum, just please do your homework before you start investing in any schools - or if you are a member of one already - particularty in the Jook Lum branch of Southern Mantis (hint, hint!).

Again, thanks all for the discussion and advise.

-X-

you mean this guy? http://www.ckfa.com/

[X-Warrior]

Shaolinlueb, no, but please do not ask for any names, as I mentioned I do not yet want to give out names, I will start the campaign and will do more and more with time. Just look around on other forums as well and make sure you throughly check credentials before you join any school.

-X-

[Shaolinlueb]

Originally posted by X-Warrior
Shaolinlueb, no, but please do not ask for any names, as I mentioned I do not yet want to give out names, I will start the campaign and will do more and more with time. Just look around on other forums as well and make sure you throughly check credentials before you join any school.

-X-

nah i dont expect you to say anems, but when i did a google search i saw him, so i jsut wanted to make sure it wasn't him. even though when i read the background it couldnt have been him.

[SiuHung]

The truly sad thing here is that this instructor has many peers...
There are a lot of lies, half truths, and exaggeration of facts floating around out there when it comes to the background of CMA teachers. Unfortunately, it may be a part of the kung fu culture.

[X-Warrior]

What is even more sad is that these instructors actually destroy the lives of people who placed their trusts and dedications to these 'great masters' as true followers, while these masters taking advantage of the situation, build their own reputation and Pai (family) who will later protect them. By the time the students work themselves up worthy of recognation they begin to learn the real truth from the other masters. Too late to pull out but too angry of having betrayed and stay. It's a dead end for most. I have known students of 15 years - and even more - before they found out they were greatly mislead. Many don't even accept it as a fact and continues standing up for their Sifus while their defence only brings more and more lies and finally they just give up and continue following their masters again whom they believe as the beholder of the only ultimate truth. These students are helpless, they have no choice; they invested too much. I have witnessed it.

I believe these instructors should be tried and dealt with by the law. I was lucky I was warned in time, even though I had several years put in and I have chosen the hardship of breaking away from something I always wanted to do in my life, I firmly belive I did the right choice. The instructor is yet to be exposed publicly which WILL HAPPEN.

-X-

[SPJ]

Believe in the directions the fingers are pointing and not the fingers.

Do not idolize your teacher on a personal level. Do focus on MA lessons.

Nobody is perfect. Even monks may exegerate or slip in tongues, sometimes. In that sense, everybody goes to jail except Jesus.

A lot of them are egoes talking and nothing more.

On the other hand, different teachers will adapt their learnings to what they believe to be most important and most fitting to their ideals of the arts and body physiques. They are not lying. They are their different interpretations and presentations. Thus the name is arts and not science.

In that sense, different teachers may do the moves differently and say differen opinions. All they all lying or telling their truths?

A lot of time, to justify their thinking is the only truth, here come avalanches of stories why their knowledge is the genuine, the only blah blah.

Luckily, my teachers are none of those.

When you are with a teacher long enough, and you are good enough to critique or challenge a teacher's thought and have your own thoughts. It is time for you to move on.

To accuse somebody misstatements, you have to make sure you are not doing them yourself. What do you know indeed to verify or back your stories.

A personal behavior is a personal behavior and nothing more.

When people are in love, both parties are not seeing or listening to the truth of themself. Once the romance is over, all the true selves start to come out.

Yes indeed. Do challenge everything the teacher said. If it is true, believe in it. If it is not, shrug it off.

If you want to hold all teachers to all the things they say against them;

Let us expand the list,

merchants, politicians with campaign promises, car dealers, ---

Oops that is everybody including you and me.

Are you sure everything you say is all truth and nothing but the truth, so who help you?




:D

[SiuHung]

Originally posted by SPJ Yes indeed. Do challenge everything the teacher said. If it is true, believe in it. If it is not, shrug it off.


:D [/B]

LOL
Do this and see what happens. Challenge any CMA teacher to back uo thier claims, abilities, and and experience. Most will berrate you and talk about mo duk or respect or etiquette. One in a thousand will beat you silly...that' the one to learn from if you want martial arts.
Mike

[SPJ]

Agreed.

By that I mean question them in your mind.

Not to say them out loud in front of everybody.


:D

[GeneChing]

Karma always gets them. Of course, it might not happen in our lifetimes... :rolleyes:

[Soykuil]

Was anything he taught you the real deal..by that i mean were the forms, conditioning, gings etc real, the same as the other schools not under him..

I used to ask many questions and if they were always brushed aside or if i was told it was not necessary, then i was suspicious, but then again it wasn't the way i wanted to learn.

Is his skill there?

[cerebus]

I'm guessing you mean the "other" Southern Paying Mantis Grandmaster in the U.S. The one who Bruce Lee learned some SPM from, eh?