What I hate about tournaments is......

[Fu-Pow]

1) Tinfoil swords that go "ka chang"

2) Caucasian people dressed in traditional Chinese clothing

3) Judges who aren't qualified

4) Ambiguous/subjective sparring rules

5) Politics/Drama

6) the entire Creative/Musical division

7) Staffs that would work great as pool cues

8) Traditional forms performed with "Wushu flair"

9) That song from the Wong Fei Hung soundtrack

10) Cheesy techno music (please see Creative/Musical division)

11) Annoying MC's

12) Crappy unhealthy and overpriced food

13) The fact that you are instantly awarded extra points for forms if you:
a) are Asian
b)Dressed in a "snappy" outfit
c)Make a lot of noise
d)Make facial expressions like you are straining to take
a sh)t.
e) under 5'5"

14) Point sparring

15) Karate guys with mullets and more patches on their uniforms than a TGIF Fridays employee.

16) Waiting around all day for your 15 min of competition

Please feel free to expand on my list.....

;) :D

[mortal]

LOLOLO That was rich!

[SevenStar]

Then why do you enter?


I feel your pain though. The above was why I stopped. However, admittedly, I own a uniform that exposes my arm and most of my chest on one side... I think it's a swordsman uniform, or something... someone on kfm referred to it as that once - but It looks really cool, so I would do my forms in it, attempting to get extra points for appearance.

[Fu-Pow]

Originally posted by SevenStar
Then why do you enter?


To remind myself why I don't go to tournaments...haha.

[lkfmdc]

Anyone remember Jeff Bolt's sparring idea? Spar for a few minutes and then get a judge's score like a forms competiton

They scored you on "how you moved", your "Chinese martial art flavor" and other totally intangible things

"how'd you do in your fight"

"I must have done bad, I only got a 7.3"

:D

[rubthebuddha]

the other guy got a broken nose, dislocated shoulder and three bruised ribs, but he got an 8.3, so he musta won the fight. :D

[Starchaser107]

b!tches that complain about the politics of tournaments.


jus teasin:p

sort of :mad:

:D

[Sang Feng Fan]

Running into the same people competing in the beginners division year after year.

Spotting the lady who taught kickboxing at your old kwoon competing in beginners sparring.

Schools which bring a dozen competitors and they compete using the same form.

Pink or orange Wushu outfits.

Hugely overweight or underweight competitors.

Sifus who walk right up to the judges during the competition and demand better scores for their competitors.

Schools that do poorly, bring up "Honor" and demand their money back.

Overpriced water.

[Brad]

Anyone remember Jeff Bolt's sparring idea? Spar for a few minutes and then get a judge's score like a forms competiton

They scored you on "how you moved", your "Chinese martial art flavor" and other totally intangible things
Doesn't sound too bad... it's basically like most forms competitions, but you get to hit somebody :D People getting random scores while hitting each other vs. People getting random scores for doing 3 minutes of bad taiji... hmm...

[rogue]

That horrible noise they play during Muay Thai fights.

Kids from the local TKD school doing glowing numchunk demos.

Watching the MT guys limping out to their cars with their legs wrapped in giant ice packs. Ouch!

[Shaolinlueb]

Originally posted by Fu-Pow
9) That song from the Wong Fei Hung soundtrack

I feel your pain. And its always the non chinese that try to be more chinese then the chinese :(

i dont see anything wrong with wearing frog button shirts, its traditional, sorta. not like im wearing it all the time.

[SiuHung]

...Obnoxious wushu people saying "Haaooo" every 10 seconds!!!

PLEASE SHUT UP WUSHU PEOPLE!!! YOU SOUND LIKE THE SEAGULLS IN FINDING NEMO!!!!!

Also, judges for forms divisions who clearly aren't interested in what's going on in front of them, and sparring rules that make it **** near impossible to use Chinese martial arts in the competition ring.

[kungfuchic]

sandbaggin...how long have they been in intermediate now?

instructors who judge their own students higher than what it is obviously supposed to be. kinda compromises the judge's integrity all the way around.

wushu people who compete in traditional that claim their form is traditional but it just has that wushu flare.

sleepy judges who only wake up when they see a butterfly kick and useless tumbling and score high for it in the traditional events..


but for the flip side, i get to travel and meet new people!

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by rogue
That horrible noise they play during Muay Thai fights.

that "noise" is art. Maybe it's an acquired taste, but I like it.

[SifuAbel]

.........being there...........

[Eddie]

13) 13) The fact that you are instantly awarded extra points for forms if you:
a) are Asian
b)Dressed in a "snappy" outfit
c)Make a lot of noise
d)Make facial expressions like you are straining to take
a sh)t.
e) under 5'5"


and weigh less than 75 kilos


that "noise" is art. Maybe it's an acquired taste, but I like it.
Suppose you are right. Makes you fight better, just to get done with it so you can get out of the ring and get away from it all. Just kidding, that noise-art is ok at the right time, but after a whole day of listening to the same (or sound like the same) tune, can work on your nerves.

Tournaments are ok, if the judges know what they are doing and if there are no politics, but then again, in a perfect world ….

[Ray Pina]

Solutions:

Know not to show up to at least 1:30 if you're a man and only there to spar .... and know even then you will most likely wait till 3:30.

Bring a walkman so you can lay back in the stands and just chill out .... no unwanted music, kids screaming, ect., ect.

Bring your own food or go out to eat knowing you have time to kill anyway.

Walk around a little bit. Check out some kids forms and sparring, some adult forms and weapons forms. Shake a few hands.

[David Jamieson]

well, now that you know what you don't like about it, what are you gonna do to change it so that it fits a modality that in turn fits your point of view?

Because, no one is going to change it for you...you know. :p

cheers

[Shaolinlueb]

i dont see whats wrong with putting a little wushu flair in a form if you can perform it well. i did it at wong to a form i couldnt do well and it was jsut sloppy, but forms you know well whats wrong with performing them at real speed? if you have the stances and power and basics of the form down it will look better IMO.

[Hau Tien]

Originally posted by Shaolinlueb
i dont see whats wrong with putting a little wushu flair in a form if you can perform it well. i did it at wong to a form i couldnt do well and it was jsut sloppy, but forms you know well whats wrong with performing them at real speed? if you have the stances and power and basics of the form down it will look better IMO.

I think the problem was that the wushu "flair" added to a traditional form makes it non-traditional ;)

I personally don't enter tournaments much anymore. I did well in the few I entered, but I found that I couldn't stand the waiting around all day for my 15 minutes ;)

I'm considering entering some tournaments around here in the future, just to test out my xingyi/bagua, once I get to the level i'd like to be with them :) I likely wouldn't enter forms divisions, though... I do much better in the sparring/continuous sparring divisions.

[David Jamieson]

i think it would be cool if people did a form demo, and then immediately fought with only the concepts and principles extrapolated from that form.

point sparring is in my opinion slightly silly and continually shows a lack of connection to the style the point sparrer hails from.

tournaments should be a showcase of applied skill.

knowledge is not so much power as is the ability to apply that knowledge.

application of the knowledge would serve to show an art better imo.

anyway, there was one tourney I went to called the Dragons Cup in winnipeg some time ago...probably close to ten years ago I guess, but there was a lot of emphasis on use of style in fighting.

It was probably the best tourney I had been too and i didn't see many after that.

The last tourney I went to was a political sham. wushu guys with sloppy form were beating out trads who could clearly make them mud, but because they didn't hold extended poses and didn't jump around and scream, they lost.

I would have loved to see some fight comp between these two groups to decide what works and what does not.

You gonna have a martial arts contest or is it a cha cha venue?

that's all I'm saying

[Shaolinlueb]

how can you say wushu isnt traditional? it has punchs and kicks in it. traditional forms have punches and kicks. oh wait its all the jumping and tumbling right? what about fanzi and ditang, those are traditional? its all traditional to me, all based on the same stuff. jsut people like to create these "categories" and "labels" for stuff. it all comes from one place mainly. how is performing something at real speed not traditional? you can still show movements clearly and acuratly if trained well. i see some of these wushu people have lower stances and can kick higher then these traditional people. my chances are on the wushu people that can kick harder and have a stronger mabu, if they train it. but in most cases with "modern wushu" they just go for stretching with non application and non martial intent. maybe thats why people seperate it. IMO. we train everything traditional even the modern stuff, we dont start doing contemporary until advanced levels in out school, by then our foundation and stances are strong enough where it does look good and powerful.

[SaMantis]

Hmm well according to the responses so far, meeting some folks' tastes will require the following adjustments:

* Disclaimer: ;) for those who take life too seriously.

Only Asian competitors can wear silks with frog buttons. Westerners must wear garb appropriate to the same time period: homespun shirts, wool pants and suspenders for sparrers, top hat and tails for male forms competitors, frilly bonnet, corset, ankle-length skirt and button-up shoes for female competitors.

Nobody who is more than 10 lbs. over or under weight will be allowed in the door. No fat a$$es or anorexics allowed.

All bladed weapons should be roughly the same weight as Conan the Barbarian's sword. If ya can't pick it up, ya can't be competing wid' it!

Concession foods should be appropriate to the "traditional" time period, too. Asian foods will consist of rice, fish heads and cabbage. Westerners will have to settle for salted beef and gristly sausage.

Anyone who does a butterfly kick in their form should be beaten mercilessly, because everyone knows a butterfly kick doesn't work. (All beatings will be administered by the Traditional Forms Purity Committee, located just outside the South Entrance. Be sure to stop by our gift shop!)

A new category will be added, entitled "War Face." Similar to freestyle and Best Jump categories, except in this one, competitors are judged on best frozen pose, "taking-a-sh*t" facial expressions and of course, who screams loudest.

----

OR, we could all approach tournaments in the spirit they were created to promote: a chance to meet people from other schools, show your skills, and exchange knowledge in a neutral forum. In other words, have fun, and at the end of the day kick back, have a beer (or a nice cranberry juice), and don't worry about the negative stuff you may have seen during the day.

[David Jamieson]

stretching with non application and non martial intent. maybe thats why people seperate it.

that is exactly why people with martial know how seperate it.

hyperextension is bad for you. extended posing is false, etc etc etc.

modern wushu is an expression of martial arts, but it is a shadow image done for performance and entertainment.

traditional martial arts are much more abrupt and to the point and are all about martiality. at least, those that haven't been diluted by performance artistic aspects to please an otherwise unknowing crowd.

in all seriousness, traditional martial arts are not for performance and they wouldn't attract the thrill seekers and ergo, having forms competitions with traditional is self defeating without the actual fighting aspect.

anyway, I'm not against wushu per se, I think it is one more form of promotion of teh chinese martial arts and in fact there are wushu pracs who do indeed explore traditional martial arts and the martial end of things.

Those people ultimately know the difference even more than naysayers who just diss wushu because of its flowery hands and embroidered legs. :p

cheers

[Kristoffer]

I hate tournaments for all the above reasons.
Would be cooler if u had just one fight, at a certain time, like a boxing fight.

[David Jamieson]

Would be cooler if u had just one fight, at a certain time, like a boxing fight.

yes, carded matches between competing styles would be a godsend to the traditional martial arts.

oh wait...I think this is called ufc or something like that hahahaha.

Only thing is, even with traditional training, for some reason that crowd hates to be associated with traditional martial arts.

I blame wushu for this and bad musical karate toothpick twirling and ralph maccio and his incessently whiney demeanor and David Carradine and his tv show with his broken english fortune cookie utterances and his extremely poor traditional *ahem...kungfu. :p

Oh, and the typical western mindset which fully corrupted the traditional martial arts and turned them into entertainment long ago.

[Hau Tien]

What Kung Lek said.

I intended no disrespect to wushu practitioners by seperating them from the traditional people. This is just how it is in my mind, and I'm only one person.

I figure traditional martial artists also have knowledge of how to really apply the movements from the art in a combat situation. Now, this CERTAINLY does not apply to many people that I know that consider themselves "traditional" martial artists.

I think it's all a matter of semantics ;)

Now... as for seeing real traditional forms at tournaments... I agree with Kung Lek. Wushu-ish forms tend to do better because they look much more impressive. Lower stances, high jumping kicks, etc. But for me, on the rare occasion I've seen someone perform a traditional form VERY well, I've always enjoyed it more than any of the other forms shown... but maybe I look for different things ;)


Originally posted by Kung Lek
that is exactly why people with martial know how seperate it.

hyperextension is bad for you. extended posing is false, etc etc etc.

modern wushu is an expression of martial arts, but it is a shadow image done for performance and entertainment.

traditional martial arts are much more abrupt and to the point and are all about martiality. at least, those that haven't been diluted by performance artistic aspects to please an otherwise unknowing crowd.

in all seriousness, traditional martial arts are not for performance and they wouldn't attract the thrill seekers and ergo, having forms competitions with traditional is self defeating without the actual fighting aspect.

anyway, I'm not against wushu per se, I think it is one more form of promotion of teh chinese martial arts and in fact there are wushu pracs who do indeed explore traditional martial arts and the martial end of things.

Those people ultimately know the difference even more than naysayers who just diss wushu because of its flowery hands and embroidered legs. :p

cheers

[Shaolinlueb]

well you have a point on wushu looking cleaner and more apealing. and traditional not being very pretty. funny thing is i find traditional just as pretty (touche) as modern cause i appreciate both of them for what they are.

but yeah, SaMantis said it right, its to have fun and meet new people. i agree with that a lot.

as for them competing in the same thing, wushu people winning cause they're flashier but with less kill, those judges arent good judges at all. a good judge could see the difference between those things. but then again last tournament i went too i think 40% of the stuff was bad.

[Ray Pina]

Anyone going to the Wong Fe Hung next month?

I'm going to spar (continous) and chi sau and might, maybe, even do a Bak Mei form.

After competing in San Da I am aproaching this tournament very relaxed and with a spirit of having a good time .... I also plan on winning;)

[Shaolinlueb]

Originally posted by EvolutionFist
Anyone going to the Wong Fe Hung next month?

I'm going to spar (continous) and chi sau and might, maybe, even do a Bak Mei form.

After competing in San Da I am aproaching this tournament very relaxed and with a spirit of having a good time .... I also plan on winning;)

im going, but i dont know if to compete. i hear its a 99% southern tournament. since i do northern i will probably just watch this time.

[Tak]

Originally posted by Fu-Pow
4) Ambiguous/subjective sparring rules

Every timed format has subjective rules. Because nobody wants to wait around all day for two exhausted guys to finally KO each other after 136 rounds.

[Ray Pina]

Technically, being that I've focused mostly on Hsing-I the past 3 years, I'm a "northern" guy, too.

Technically again, since my master teaches Ba Gua I should spar in the "Ba Gua" section, but I'm not comfortable with that format so I'll fight in the general open continual sparring.

My teacher never gets involved in these things so I'll be an outsider with no inside judges but I always enter these things with the attitude of "make it so there's no mistake." That's harder to do in forms, but in sparring, beat the hell out of your guy and either win or get disqualified.

I'll see ya there either way.

[WinterPalm]

I don't understand the debate about not doing a form at full speed. If you are entering a tournament, they don't want to see the slow tai chi style of your traditional form, they want to see the martial art aspects of it. It is a performance, you should practice all your forms at top speed, not all the time, but in conjunction with slower and more refined technical run throughs as well as application. Otherwise, if you can't put together a set arrangment of moves at top speed, how can you hope to put together an actual fight or sparring match at top speed, picking from the assortment of techniques open to you limited only by the style you've chosen to study.
As far as Wushu flair or whatever, isn't there a place for Wushu and a place for Kung Fu? Unless the tournament is entirely open, there should be seperate categories as they are different in approach and in execution.

[Shaolinlueb]

Originally posted by WinterPalm
I don't understand the debate about not doing a form at full speed. If you are entering a tournament, they don't want to see the slow tai chi style of your traditional form, they want to see the martial art aspects of it. It is a performance, you should practice all your forms at top speed, not all the time, but in conjunction with slower and more refined technical run throughs as well as application. Otherwise, if you can't put together a set arrangment of moves at top speed, how can you hope to put together an actual fight or sparring match at top speed, picking from the assortment of techniques open to you limited only by the style you've chosen to study.
As far as Wushu flair or whatever, isn't there a place for Wushu and a place for Kung Fu? Unless the tournament is entirely open, there should be seperate categories as they are different in approach and in execution.

good post, i agree and have been tryin to say that.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

Originally posted by WinterPalm
Otherwise, if you can't put together a set arrangment of moves at top speed, how can you hope to put together an actual fight or sparring match at top speed, picking from the assortment of techniques open to you limited only by the style you've chosen to study.


my kung fu instructer didn't really teach forms, so take my opinon for what it's worth, but i don't really see the point in doing forms ultra fast unless your working cardio. when i wanted to work speed i would either work a specific technique over and over (most often actually hitting something, but sometimes in the air) or pick several and try to work combos. i don't think that being able to do a form fast necessarially helps you move quickly in a live sparring/fighting environment. i think drills, combo work, bag work, and of course sparring/fighting are much better tools.

[Indestructible]

Originally posted by Fu-Pow


15) Karate guys with mullets and more patches on their uniforms than a TGIF Fridays employee.



It's called flair!

[FngSaiYuk]

Originally posted by Indestructible
It's called flair!

Heh, that one really got me...

Here's a question relating to the opposite of this thread-

What is it about tournaments that you like?

I've never been to a Martial Arts tournament (at least not the stuff I see on TV), and I live far from where any are held. Is there anything I'm missing out on?

[Kristoffer]

"What is it about tournaments that you like?"

Watching good fighters in a good fight

[David Jamieson]

What is it about tournaments that you like?

It is at the very least a semblance of community amongst martial artists.

A gathering of similarly minded individuals coming togather to exchange, show and share their arts.

It is a redeeming value of tournaments and gatherings

[Liokault]

LION DANCING.....I Hate the LION DANCING

[David Jamieson]

Lion Dancing is great to watch when it's done well.

Training to do it is brutal. :D

good workout, good difficulty level for kungfu players.

But, to each his own. I don't care much for musical kata. IN fact, I practically despise it.

[Liokault]

But once you have seen it....well you have seen it.

And the stoopid drum with the no clue about beat.

And...AND they always have mullets, and this is the UK where no one has a mullet.

[GLW]

"If you are entering a tournament, they don't want to see the slow tai chi style of your traditional form, they want to see the martial art aspects of it. "

ABSOLUTELY WRONG.

Taolu for ANY routine is where the ART in Martial Art comes in. If you are showing a Southern Style such as Hung Gar, as a judge, I am looking to see STRONG stances, strong bridge arms, square alignments, stability...etc... BASICS first....and at advanced levels I am looking for Speed and Power WHERE APPROPRIATE.

If you are doing Northern - I am looking for speed, agility, extension, power etc...

But NOT ALL MOVES ARE MEANT TO BE FAST.

In Taijiquan, I am looking for the flavor of each style. If you do Chen Style, I am looking for silk reeling, tempo changes, Fajing, etc... If Yang, I am looking for flow, stance, connection, etc...

Form is where you display your art....the ideal is to also be able to use it...but while use has a scientific beauty or a beauty of time, it is often NOT artful.

Each style and division in Taolu - forms judging - has special places and ways to evaluate.

I have judged people at national level where they came out and did everything very fast....and they sucked at it because they had no idea of the use....and THAT was in a northern division.

Now...I will say that I absolutely HATE judging hours upon hours of Taijiquan with competitors that have little to no understanding of basics...it is simply painful to watch.


"As far as Wushu flair or whatever, isn't there a place for Wushu and a place for Kung Fu? Unless the tournament is entirely open, there should be seperate categories as they are different in approach and in execution."

ABSOLUTELY CORRECT
There are divisions for Northern...Sourthern, Contemporary Wushu compulsories, etc...

The problem is that some come into Traditional divisions with "Flair"

With good judges, this would not matter. Typically, there are 10 points up for grabs in a performance.

6 are technical - meaning how you punch, kick, use your stances, body, etc...do you bounce and bobble, throw your shoulders up or flex your wrist incorrectly when punching....etc...

2 are Speed and Power - do you approach fighting speed where appropriate and slow speed where appropriate? do you show power in all moves (internal structural power for internal...explosive for fajing, long power for northern kicks, etc...)

2 are for impression and flavor...

Well, if a person does a Contemporary flavored set in a Traditional division, they lose points in the 2 and 2 categories...and can lose a lot. Say they lose 50% on both of those and then get 90% of the 6 points... That means 5.4 + 1 + 1 - a score of 7.4

Now a Traditional person comes up and gets 85% of the 6 points but 90% of the other 2.... means 5.1 + 1.8 + 1.8 = 8.7

Even though the Contemporary person had technically better basics and technique, they were 1.3 points LOWER due to a lack of Traditional flavor, speed, and power.

Now, if the judges don't know how to do this,....meaning they don't know how to follow the rules generally used, then they may get influenced by flash and BS...and then, you have incorrect scores...but only due to bad judging.

I have seen a time or two where a Contemporary person did a Traditional routine with Contemporary flavor...and they still won...mainly because everyone else in their division REALLY REALLY sucked.

[WinterPalm]

I disagree that forms are useless. I think practicing them does give some cardiovascular exercise, but it also increases your ability to use the techniques in a fast and tiring manner. This doesn't mean that I don't think shadow sparring, heavy bag, or individual practice and combo practice is bad, but the techniques set out in a set allow you to practice and refine a set of moves that characterize your style. They also carry chi kung and stance work, proper structure, alignment, and footwork that is designed to give you the basis from which to work other aspects of the fighting components of martial arts. Besides, what happens if you have no person to practice with, no heavy bag to hit, or even a limited amount of time to work out? Then, all in one, I speak only of forms I've learned and not others, I do not know of how other styles practice forms, but they give you a workout that has elements of strength training, endurance, agility, technique, and mental preperation, for some can be quite long and tiring!:)


GLW, I was not meaning to say anything against Tai Chi, I suppose what I said was in the same vein of saying that sloppy kung fu sparring is kickboxing, it was just a general term and I apoligize for the confusion. But I do think that forms are meant to be fast, where intended, and slow where intended, but in a performance or tournament, I think that a complete practice of the form is needed in a manner that reflects the intent in the style such as tiger or crane, and carries with it those attributes akin to the specifice style. So by this I mean that a southern style should have low stances, powerful attacks, some breath work, and a very dominating presence. For the northern, which I am not educated in as far as training, but it should have quick footwork, correct kicking with balance and strength, and other principles adherent to northern styles. This doesn't mean one should sacrifice the particulars in order to appear faster, stronger, or cooler, no, it means that all should be used but speed should definately play an important factor.

[Meat Shake]

"Know not to show up to at least 1:30 if you're a man and only there to spar .... and know even then you will most likely wait till 3:30."

Or in the case of taiji legacy, fight at 1.
... I mean 2.
Wait, no 4 oclock.
Sorry, itll have to be at 9.
Hey guys, its late. Looks like you need to be here tomorrow morning at 10.
**** taiji legacy and those responsible for scheduling it.

[GLW]

Winter Palm,

that is exactly what I was saying. To judge Taolu, you have to be familiar with the stylistic approaches and intents of each style.

Southern MUST be Southern. speed and power are all part of it. The actual statements in most of the organized rules in us in the US state that speed and power for external styles should approach that of actual combat where appropriate (of course, you would not do that during the sections of the Hung Gar sets that have dynamic tension and breathing...but then again, those are LONG forms and are probably not well suited to do in competition in their entirety.

As for the times posted...funny you bring that up.

I have stated OVER AND OVER AGAIN until some folks view it as a broken record...

What is remembered about a competition:

(1) Was the judging perceived as overall - fair.

(2) Did the event start and end on time

(3) Did the event run on schedule and seem organized.

And....amazingly enough, most people will forgive problems in items 2 and 3 if #1 is good...and #2 or 3 don't matter is #1 is perceived as a NO.

Yet...promoters all tend to worry about other things...

Now, from a promoter standpoint, you have to hold the event someplace that people CAN and WILL come to.

That means if airfair to your event cost an arm and a leg because it is off the beaten path, you will NOT have a good turn out.

Also, if you ARE on a good air path (say...Newark, NJ) but it is not someplace people want to go - I mean, who goes to Newark by choice except for family or business...it is not exactly the hot spot of holiday fun and night life.... you will have problems. People like to have something to do when they are NOT in the competition.

[SaMantis]

Heh, I got a lecture on forms just the other night: "DON'T do them fast, do them RIGHT. Speed will come later."

So: knowledge of application, preciseness of each move, putting intent in the moves, coordinating the footwork and hands. That's a tough workout in itself.

[Shaolinlueb]

yeah in the beginers i dont expect speed, jsut strong basics and foundation in the form, intermediate you get the speed up while maintaining the basics. advance it should be proper technique and speed and power while maintaining basics and making the moves clear. so is speed part of it? yes, is it making it more "real"? , yes. is it a build up?, yes. forms also do have paces and flow to it. what am i saying? i dont know im caught between this thread and bring it on again on USA.

[kungfuchic]

Originally posted by Liokault
But once you have seen it....well you have seen it.

And the stoopid drum with the no clue about beat.

And...AND they always have mullets, and this is the UK where no one has a mullet.


oof well i guess u haven't heard the jow ga drum. jow ga drummers from singapore and malaysia put together a tite routine. as a traditionalist and chinese, the lion dance is an important aspect of southern kung fu. in general, most southern traditional school always do lion dancing.

i practice whole heartedly with forms. w/ jow ga, its so big and there's so many techniques, the only way to keep these techniques is to learn the form.

forms can also represent your school/system in any demo, tourn,exhibition etc.

[Liokault]

Originally posted by kungfuchic
oof well i guess u haven't heard the jow ga drum. jow ga drummers from singapore and malaysia put together a tite routine.


And the jow ga drummers have found a way to make lion dancing interesting right?

I mean, I wouldnt mind the lion dancing if it was quite so I could carry on chatting or reading while I wait for my event.

[Ray Pina]

Maybe you guys just haven't seen good lion dancing.

Personally, I'm glad I don't do it anymore, but I look forward to Chinese New Years and walking the streets of Chinatown and following the parades.

These guys are climbing tall poles, hoping from pole to pole .... very good.

[Shaolindynasty]

I don't like lion dancing on tape or tv. It can be really cool looking live though. Some of the moves they do take allot of skill.