Superman

[@PLUGO]

you may or may not know this, but Bryan (usual suspects, Apt Pupil, X-men, X2) Singer's next project will be SUPERMAN. well Cinescape (http://www.cinescape.com/0/editorial.asp?aff_id=0&this_cat=Movies&action=page&obj_id=42369) reports that veteran actor John "Enter the Dragon" Saxon has already auditioned for the role of Pa Kent.

maybe he'll be teaching young clark a little bit about golf & fighting...

[Shaolinlueb]

lets hope he fights darkside or doomsday. im sick of the lex luthor thing

[Vash]

Indeed. A Darkseid (played by a heavily made-up and partially CGId Michael Ironside) v Superman movie that didn't suxors would be kinda cool.

[Starchaser107]

I'm a smallville fan just thought i'd share that.

[Vash]

That's a great show. I'm looking forward to the new season.

[Neckbones]

Originally posted by Starchaser107
I'm a smallville fan just thought i'd share that.

Originally posted by Vash
That's a great show. I'm looking forward to the new season.
Will you guys be able to stay up that late on a school night or will ma and pa make you go to bed?
J/K:p Good show.

[Starchaser107]

I gots 2 words for you neckbones

the first is Kristen, the next is Kreuk

aight.

this **** Remington Steele & Laura Holt relationship that they have has got to stop though!

I hate when writers drag that **** out for so long, find another vice already

[Starchaser107]

I hate when love interest things get dragged out man...
it's as annoying and drawn out like the whole Majin-Bu episodes in Dragon Ball - Z... ya know...

[Neckbones]

Originally posted by Starchaser107
this **** Remington Steele & Laura Holt relationship that they have has got to stop though!

I hate when writers drag that **** out for so long, find another vice already
I agree. Clark needs to get his super mack on and tag Lana's super a$$.
Also, how many more mutants, infected by the "green rock", must Clark fight? Let's change it up already.

[@PLUGO]

apparently there are some big surprises for the upcoming season of Smallville.

meanwhile on the movie front:


according to IESB.net the director already has someone in mind for one key role: " I think what the deal is that they want to surround an unknown with slightly more marketable names...for instance, folks like Patrick Stewart (who is apparently singer's fave for Jor-El) would have more pull at the b.o."

[red5angel]

yer killing me starchaser. I love superman, hate smallville.

[Shaolinlueb]

i hate smallville.

[Kristoffer]

I liked Lois and Clark

[Judge Pen]

I liked Lois and Clark until they got together. I like Smallville and hope they don't get together. Not getting the woman is far more interesting than getting the woman (and something more geeks can relate to)

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by Judge Pen
I liked Lois and Clark until they got together. I like Smallville and hope they don't get together. Not getting the woman is far more interesting than getting the woman (and something more geeks can relate to) Spidey got the woman and geeks rejoiced!

[Judge Pen]

I bet he loses her in the next film.

[MasterKiller]

No. In Part 3 he becomes too complacent with his abilities and loses to Clubba Lang.

[Judge Pen]

I pity the fool. :D

[Shaolinlueb]

First name MR, middle name period, last name T!

[Mr Punch]

You guys just have too many comics. I'm lost after the first post!!!

[Kristoffer]

Spiderman VS Hulk

now that would be a movie

[David Jamieson]

What is it with aliens in tights and deeply troubled mutated freaks that attracts the geek crowd anyway?

Is it the whole feeling seperate from the rest of society and then somehow feeling empowered by relating to a character such as those mentioned above?

Also, why is it that people who wanna be different wind up being the same as the guy/girl next to them until there is eventually a fashion trend?

P.S Superman: Created by a canadian, but unfortunately no where near as cool as Spiderman who was created by an american and has now become some sort of web slinging prince of persia in India.

[Vash]

KL to World:

"Hi ever'body! I'm a whiny *****!"

Ever'body to KL:

"Shut cho bichas up!"


=========================================

As an aside, Jerry Siegel was born in Cleveland, Ohio. Joe Shuster, Canada.

*clinks glass* Here's to the men who taught us to fly.

[David Jamieson]

KL to Vash:

Bite my shiny metal ass.

[Vash]

*single tear falls down cheeck*

[David Jamieson]

well, i didn't know you were gonna cry about it.

come here and you can bathe in the glow of my infinite wisdom in regards to these matters.

[Vash]

*slips on hip waiders and nose plug*

[David Jamieson]

you forgot your shovel :D

[Vash]

Bah. The son of Darkseid needs no shovel. Only hoe.

[Kristoffer]

Dude, u used to be the prophet..

[Vash]

Used to be? I speak truth. Superman 0\^/n5 Spiderman.

[SimonM]

Originally posted by Starchaser107
it's as annoying and drawn out like the whole Majin-Bu episodes in Dragon Ball - Z... ya know...

What's frustrating about the Majin=-Buu saga in DBZ is that the entire saga depends on the Z fighters making a series of increasingly stupid mistakes.

1: Everyone taking turns fighting Babidi's monsters allowing Dabura to escape and suggest corrupting Vegeta (if they had swarmed Dabura he would have been totally creamed).

2: Goku and Vegeta going off to have their match DURING the battle against the terrible forces of darkness rather than showing enough patience to save the world before their grudge match.

3: Goku holding back and drawing out the Vegeta match rather than spending the energy for ten seconds of Super 3 and dropping Vegeta like a ton of angry bricks.

4: Gohan and Supreme Kai attacking Buu's egg instead of Babidi.

5: Goku refusing to defeat fat Buu in a fight - even though he could have easily - because it "should be up to the new generation".

6: Gotenks. Gotenks being stupid and rushing into a confrontation with Fat Buu, Gotenks being stupid and allowing Super Buu time to escape, Gotenks being stupid and getting in Gohan's way (and getting absorbed) Gotenks in general.

7: Goku not using SSJ3 to trounce Super Buu when he returns to fuse with Gohan.

8: Vegeto allowing himself to be absorbed by Super Buu to rescue everyone rather than just destroying Super Buu and using the Namekian dragon balls to wish everyone back.

9: Goku forgetting that he had instant translocation long enough for Gohan, Goten, Piccolo and Trunks to get killed anyway after they rescue them.

10: Goku and Vegeta refusing to fuse into Vegeto again when they are given the opportunity to do so to destroy Super Buu.

At each one of these points the story could have been resolved if a character had made a different (and better) choice. Does anyone else find this to be frustrating? Am I missing any key mistakes made by the goodguys?

[Judge Pen]

Wow, there's a geek language I don't speak. :D

[The Willow Sword]

You know i am not a real big fan of DC comics. I did though like the Batman and Superman comics.

To me the superman character will always embody what Christopher Reeves(rest his soul) did with the character. I mean wasnt "Superman" an American creation to begin with? Wasnt the character created to put forth an idealic american mindset? True Superman was a character that was a worldly arbitor. But essentially the Character is an AMERICAN one.

and even though i am a democrat liberal i still feel that American icons should be KEPT as such and not toned down to pull in foreign box office profits. Especially trying to pull in profits from those countries that dont like us very much( and rightly so in some cases).

It just seems to me that Superman isnt the Superman we once knew now because the "American Way" was taken out of the iconic statement that has been used in the comics since before the movies of this character was created.

Any thoughts???? Opinions???? Rants?????

Peace,,TWS

[KC Elbows]

Well, the basic idea of the uberman is technically german, right?

[Merryprankster]

To be clear, it's Neitzschean, not Nazi.

The ubermensch was the man who had advanced so far beyond the rest of man that mankind could no longer judge him.

The Nazis declared, rather differently, that "Aryans" were superior to all other races.

Considering that the Aryans were actually inhabitants of the Indian subcontinent (if memory serves) I've always found that interesting.

[Water Dragon]

Nietzsche confuses me. I'm not much of an existentionalist.

[mantis108]

Well, I thought Superman was at least part if not sole Canadian creation?! :confused:

Anyway, Ultraman is way cooler and he got a huge family network too (not like the orphane boy Jo-el from Krepton). :cool: :D

Come to think of it Bill's analysis of Superman is pretty dead on (pun intended). Clark Kent is the alter ego of Superman. :eek: And he fancies Louis ... At the end of the day, we all look to shag the lassies, super hero or no super hero. Now, That's as Zen as it can get ....

Mantis108

[Merryprankster]

The good news is that I'm not entirely certain he was either.

I think he was probably a "proto-existentialist."

His greatest contribution and most fundamental point, IMO was his determination that:

1. Values are man-made (God is dead)
2. Because of that, we have the power to declare good and evil (and thus move beyond them).

Thus Spake Zarathustra was actually all kinds of sarcastic even to those who didn't believe in God as well as those who did - because they didn't recognize his second point, they were doomed to be constrained just as if values were commands from God anyway.

[Water Dragon]

I just remember reading him in a class on existentialism back in college. I like Kierkegaard a little better, but he was quite the anal one.

[joedoe]

Well, the latest Superman movie was created in Australia ;)

[David Jamieson]

Superman was indeed created by a couple of canadians in canada(Joe Shuster and Jerry Siegel) and exported to Cleveland Ohio where the rights were sold and the rest is history.

I honestly don't think Joe or Jerry were even mindful of Neitschze, Ubermen, Galactic men or the rest. It was just an idea that the time was right, another archetype born out of archetypes of old.

consider that it was the depression era, and everyone needed a hero.

[SanHeChuan]

Nietzsche's superman had nothing to do with physical prowess or what ever.

To Nietzsche a superman was someone who gave everyone else something to believe in. Christ could have been a superman to Nietzsche because even though god wasn't real, Jesus gave people something to have faith in. Even if it was faith in a fantasy.

The superman recognized that morality etc was his own creation, so that's what he would do, create a value system and pass it on.

Somehow this tied into architects. Nietzsche thought they would make good Supermen, because they have the power to literally create the world we live in.

But, considering most of my understanding of Nietzsche comes from architecture classes, I could be totally wrong. :p

[Water Dragon]

This thread makes my head hurt.

[BlueTravesty]

I just remember reading him in a class on existentialism back in college. I like Kierkegaard a little better, but he was quite the anal one.

I personally liked Kant. Pretty dense stuff, but once you get into it, (and have a handy supply of Advil.) makes it worth the mental gymnastics.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

"Truth, Justice, and the American Way"... interesting concepts.. but, does a nation (America) have the right to export these notions by force (armed or leveraged negotiation)?

Truth, is an individual perception.. Justice, is a consensus of standards that vary culturally and geographically.. and, "The American Way", is quite greedy and corrupt..

Superman was/is an expression of an ideal, far from the reality.. Is the "ideal" a possibility in today's geo-political environment?

Be well...

[KC Elbows]

I honestly don't think Joe or Jerry were even mindful of Neitschze, Ubermen, Galactic men or the rest. It was just an idea that the time was right, another archetype born out of archetypes of old.


Yeah, they didn't likely have any intention to cite Neitschze, but the idea goes back to him, and is linked at this point, even if it wasn't back when those two made him up.

I hadn't realized they were canadians. That explains DC stealing their ideas, since they don't have the same rights as real Americans. If only they had had some sort of selfless hero dedicated to justice they could call upon...:D

[KC Elbows]

Greetings..

"Truth, Justice, and the American Way"... interesting concepts.. but, does a nation (America) have the right to export these notions by force (armed or leveraged negotiation)?

I'm not familiar with truth being exported by force too often by any country, probably rarer justice, and America has had a lot better luck importing the various American Ways through satellite and cable than by force.


Truth, is an individual perception.. Justice, is a consensus of standards that vary culturally and geographically.. and, "The American Way", is quite greedy and corrupt..

I think what many who like the Superman concept see as the "American Way" is equality of opportunity and liberty, not conspicuous consumption and any opportunism that allows that. I think you are confounding the views of our President and some of his supporters with the rest of us.


Superman was/is an expression of an ideal, far from the reality.. Is the "ideal" a possibility in today's geo-political environment?

Be well...

Interesting question. Because the ideal is an individualistic one, I say yes, there is nothing our government can do that will prevent individuals from helping each other based out of need. My father has spent his retirement volunteering time at a children's hospital with kids who more often than not are not going to live, some of whom get no other visitors. I see this as the ideal becoming real. I'm sure you know similar folk. Not as colorful as Superman, a bit more paunch and a tendency to play practical jokes on the unsuspecting, but still unswerving in the truth that there is nothing he could do for himself that is more important, there is justice in the idea that these kids deserve to have someone there for them and will have someone, and American in that my dad is purposefully obnoxious.:D

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Thanks, KC Elbows.. that was a beautiful sentiment, and Kudos to your dad.. <respectful bows>

Yes, i agree with the notion that the current administration doesn't effectively represent the core values of "America".. my concern is that evolution takes a twist and progresses awkwardly toward dismissing those values as "weak".. i'm hoping we can effect a sincere change of perspective where those values are regarded as core strengths.. anyway, just some personal thoughts on the matter..

Be well..

[GLW]

And now for something completely different :

The Monty Python Philosopher's Song :

Immanuel Kant was a real ****ant
Who was very rarely stable.

Heidegger, Heidegger was a boozy beggar
Who could think you under the table.

David Hume could out-consume
Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel, [some versions have 'Schopenhauer and Hegel']

And Wittgenstein was a beery swine
Who was just as schloshed as Schlegel.

There's nothing Nietzsche couldn't teach ya
'Bout the raising of the wrist.
Socrates, himself, was permanently ****ed.

John Stuart Mill, of his own free will,
On half a pint of shandy was particularly ill.

Plato, they say, could stick it away--
Half a crate of whisky every day.

Aristotle, Aristotle was a bugger for the bottle.
Hobbes was fond of his dram,

And René Descartes was a drunken ****.
'I drink, therefore I am.'

Yes, Socrates, himself, is particularly missed,
A lovely little thinker,
But a bugger when he's ****ed.

[BruceSteveRoy]

I highly recommend that everyone read the trade paperback Superman: Red Son. i have never been a fan of superman but it is so friggin good. It works off the idea what if superman crashed into earth a few hours later and landed in the soviet union instead of the US and was working for communist ideals. O man its great. and the twist ending will make your jaw drop. So good.

[Judge Pen]

I personally liked Kant. Pretty dense stuff, but once you get into it, (and have a handy supply of Advil.) makes it worth the mental gymnastics.

I preferred Kant man myself. His ideas of morality are difficult to apply though. Most people seem to be driven by more utilitarian concepts the Kant's catagorical imperitives.

A t-shirt I once saw: Front: "God is Dead" -- Nietzsche Back -- "Nietzsche is Dead" -- God.

[mantis108]

If you look at our present Prime Minister, Steven Harper, He does try very hard to convince people that he's a Clark Kent wannabe. Just look at the glasses and the suits. :eek:

If he has his way, Canada will soon be annexed by the American Empire with the Bush imperial family holding court forever anyway. The men (B & H) were practically about to "Patriot" kiss each other on their first date. So... Superman will still be all American. Don't you worry about it. ;) :D Think about it ... 67 states with bountiful resources like oil, gold, diamond, etc... Wow, Uber State of America!

Mantis108

[David Jamieson]

The Harperbot will fail in his endeavour.

However, I think if Canada, Mexico and The USA teamed up
poltically, economically and Militarily, then the rest of the world
is simply our oyster.

Now that's a superpower!

[Jingwu Man]

Save us (Canada), Superman!

[WinterPalm]

I'm not going to vote for any of the parties here in Canada, least of all the Conservatives seeing what they have done to the US, but you have to admit that Harper has basically done everything he said he would...and everybody knows what that means next election...Star Wars.

[Jingwu Man]

Hmmmm.
Who is the Empire and who are the rebels?

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

ARE YOU SERIOUS!! Canada's NOT a US state? How did that happen?

Why is it so hot.. and why am i in this hand-basket... ?

Be well.....

[KC Elbows]

Greetings..

ARE YOU SERIOUS!! Canada's NOT a US state?

The dead giveaway is that they don't know how to speak American.:D

[@PLUGO]

It should be noted that the "Truth, Justice, and the American Way" phrase was coined in the early 60's as a part of the TV series' opening narration

"Faster than a speeding bullet. More powerful than a locomotive. Able to leap tall buildings in a single bound. Look! Up in the sky. It's a bird. It's a plane. It's Superman! Yes, it's Superman — strange visitor from another planet who came to Earth with powers and abilities far beyond those of mortal men. Superman — who can change the course of mighty rivers, bend steel with his bare hands, and who, disguised as Clark Kent, mild-mannered reporter for a great metropolitan newspaper, fights a neverending battle for Truth, Justice, and the American Way."
~Bill Kennedy

Consider also that superman wasn't always the "boyscout" he's known as these days.

In the Golden-Age stories, Superman's personality is rough and destructive. Although nowhere near as cold-blooded as the early Batman, the Superman featured in the comics of the 1930s and 1940s is not squeamish about tossing evildoers around in such a manner that fatalities are occasionally hard to avoid.

By the end of 1940, however, editor Whitney Ellsworth instituted a code of conduct for his characters to follow, and the writers moved toward Superman's better known "Boy Scout" persona. Even so, Superman's capacity for anger is a key element in many of his most dramatic moments, allowing readers to see that Superman's goodness is not inherent. His adoptive human parents the Kents imbue him with a strong sense of purpose, morality, selflessness, modesty, fairness, compassion, and hope. Superman was raised to believe that his abilities are gifts, and are not to be abused. In many ways, he is the perfect hero, as he embodies all the best traits that people would believe to see in themselves.

Recent writers have attempted to deepen Superman's persona and provide a rationale for his goodness. Superman is often depicted with a mix of idealism, restraint, fairness, and compassion for others. The Birthright limited series attributes the compassion Superman feels for living things to his ability to see their "auras". He also struggles with the differences between what is right and what is practical. In Superman/Batman, Batman says, "In many ways Clark is the most human of us all, and when he shoots fire down from the sky, it's hard not to think of him as a god. How fortunate for us that this never occurs to him" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman#Personality_and_character)

[Banjos_dad]

design sifu, I was waiting for someone to reference the old George Reeves version of superman.
I was going to say, I am leaning toward this pomaded, surly Superman as my favorite. His feats were nothing compared to the Salkind film versions of Christopher Reeves' Superman but then people did not expect as much then lol. It was enough to withstand a point-blank machine gun barrage. He was kind of mean though. He really took his work personally. You quoted the opening to the Superman tv show ( or serial films?? whatever they were... when i was a kid they were on tv already).... i could hear the scratchy Superman theme playing lol. silly huh?

btw. my "Shaolin" t-shirt is pretty much my favorite one, unless i am wrong, that's your artwork. Thanks for that...



However, I think if Canada, Mexico and The USA teamed up
poltically, economically and Militarily, then the rest of the world
is simply our oyster.

Now that's a superpower!

once again David ensconces the correct in a crystalline Fortress of Correctitude.

[@PLUGO]

Indeed that was from the George Reeves series...

an amuzing read on the various SUPERMEN can be found here (http://www.comics101.com/?page=C101)

[The Willow Sword]

:)

i've had alot of fun reading the posts here. Its amazing. from Superman American icon to existentialism to nazi'ism to Nietzche'ism to Communism.

i never really knew all that much about the internal workings of the superman character. What i was able to figure out from the character from a political and propaganda standpoint is similar to the post that stated that people in that depression era needed a hero to look up to and to pad the effects of being poor and depressed.

I didnt think that so many delved in to the dichotomy of a comic book character.

MY whole point about this thread was that the recent release of the movie took away that "the american way" and it was done so to pull in foreign markets that didnt really like our country.
Most people who go to see this movie will compare and look back to the christopher reeves version of superman that eclipsed and basically shadowed the 60's version of superman. Since Christopher struggled so hard to get better after his C1 got busted and miraculously survived it, people were eager to see how the character evolved on the screen and if it would do christopher justice(because in my opinion christopher reeves took tat character and made it his own and it hasnt been done since, until now).NOTE: i do NOT acknowledge the dumb A$$ Television series that have come out and made the character uhhhh "GAY", i hated the early Tv series and i equally hate the smallville BS.

For me the character doesnt symbolize any existential or communist or german nazi ideal of a ultimate man. To me and as a child seeing the movies i associated superman with basically what the original creation of the character was. An Alien being who crashes on earth and has super powers and does the right thing to protect those who are too weak to protect themselves. I was abused severely as a child and so the superman character who was impervious to everything bad got my imagination and my place of escape going strong, and as a result i was better able to deal with what was being thrown at me as a child.

anyway, great posts from everyone, even the ones who ive had clashes with in the past. See you people CAN post intelligently when you try;)

As always,TWS

[KC Elbows]

I just said it was a German idea, refering to the German philosopher who popularized it. MP was the one who brought up the nazis.

[@PLUGO]

:)

i've had alot of fun reading the posts here. Its amazing. from Superman American icon to existentialism to nazi'ism to Nietzche'ism to Communism.

i never really knew all that much about the internal workings of the superman character. What i was able to figure out from the character from a political and propaganda standpoint is similar to the post that stated that people in that depression era needed a hero to look up to and to pad the effects of being poor and depressed.

I didnt think that so many delved in to the dichotomy of a comic book character.

MY whole point about this thread was that the recent release of the movie took away that "the american way" and it was done so to pull in foreign markets that didnt really like our country.
Most people who go to see this movie will compare and look back to the christopher reeves version of superman that eclipsed and basically shadowed the 60's version of superman. Since Christopher struggled so hard to get better after his C1 got busted and miraculously survived it, people were eager to see how the character evolved on the screen and if it would do christopher justice(because in my opinion christopher reeves took tat character and made it his own and it hasnt been done since, until now).NOTE: i do NOT acknowledge the dumb A$$ Television series that have come out and made the character uhhhh "GAY", i hated the early Tv series and i equally hate the smallville BS.

For me the character doesnt symbolize any existential or communist or german nazi ideal of a ultimate man. To me and as a child seeing the movies i associated superman with basically what the original creation of the character was. An Alien being who crashes on earth and has super powers and does the right thing to protect those who are too weak to protect themselves. I was abused severely as a child and so the superman character who was impervious to everything bad got my imagination and my place of escape going strong, and as a result i was better able to deal with what was being thrown at me as a child.

anyway, great posts from everyone, even the ones who ive had clashes with in the past. See you people CAN post intelligently when you try;)

As always,TWS

Well, it should be said that Superman was essentailly the first superhero. It was the creation of this character that heralded the creation of a new genre, the Superhero (prior to that charactors like The Phantom, Doc Savage & the Shadow did exist as a sort of proto-superhero but were still rooted deeply in "pulp" conventions). It was also Superman that shouldered the boom in a then new industry; comicbook publishing. Superman is not a super-hero he's the super-hero.

Alot has been written about the meaning and themes used in the creation of this mythos. It could be said that he's popular culture's first illeagal alien, depending of course on which origin is read. In some cases baby Kal-El is brought to an orphanage before being adopted by the Kents. In other (more recent) tellings, the Kents simply tell everyone he's their baby, born during the long winter season; commiting some level of fraud in the process . . . how American.

Undoubtedly the superman myth is not only a depression era wish full-fillment. Its also a great retelling of the American dream. Young immigrant (Kal El) come to the U.S.A. reinvents himself (as Clark Kent) and persues his very personal definition of success.

I'm not sure you're reasoning WRT removing "the American way" is all that substantial. Is this something you read somewhere? Or are you quoting the character Perry White in the latest film?

That phrase was included in the then most current version of Superman, the George Reeves TV series. It was being produced in the 50's amidst McCarthy's reign of stupidity. How could they not place an emphasis on "the American Way" on a show who's lead character was from someplace outside the U.S.A.?

As this myth is being cast in a modern era it's of course going to reflect modern ideals, in this case a globalized society. Still there's no doub that Superman is as much a U.S. icon as Micky Mouse. More so even than say, Captain America.

I'll agree with Chris Reeves being a true modern manifestation of the Superman ideal. Director Bryan Singer was truely wise in his choice to honor those previous Films; particularly the first & second. In actuality a major plot point in the most current film could not be believable if not for a significant portion of the 2nd film.

What made the current film work (for me) was how it allowed the viewer to draw from whatever memories they may have of the previous films with-out having to have seen any of them to enjoy this version. Superman may or may not have flown around the earth fast enough to turn back time (as the Chris Reeves film had him do dispite any logic or lack there of) but he certainly made an enemy of Lex.

This film remained true to the Superman mythos as presented (almost weekly) by DC comics. Yet it made no effort to discount previous film version, as Batman Begins looks to achieve. THis could have been the same Superman that fought that Solor powered dude on the moon in IV or hung out with Richard Prior in III. I prefer to think not but either way it didn't deminish my enjoyment of the film.

The Lois and Clark TV series kept my attention for only a handful of episodes and I've yet to catch Smallville. However here's an amuzing read on Superman as a sex symbol, it might prove entertaining. (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13556951/)

As for any extended reading of Superman: Check out SUPERMAN: RED SON for the reasons mentioned above. Also have a look at DC: NEW FRONTEERS for a modern view of a superman set in the 50's-60's. If you want to spend less than 5$ go out and pick up any issue of All Star Superman. Great Great stuff.

[@PLUGO]

some more info on "...the american way" can be found here (http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/30/opinion/30lundegaard.html?_r=2&oref=slogin&oref=slogin)

[The Willow Sword]

I'm not sure you're reasoning WRT removing "the American way" is all that substantial. Is this something you read somewhere?

well i had seen the movie and the line wasnt included but only once but fleetingly and is very easy to miss. then quite strangely enough the local news did a puff peice on the movie and they focused on that very thing. apparently it got some scrutiny from the patriotic groups who felt that the exclusion of "the american way" in the superman character somehow took away from the character itself. it was then reported by some of the british team who was part of the movie making that the line was taken out because they wanted to appeal to foreign markets, especially those foreign ones that do not really like america.

anyway i kinda agreed with the story even though it bordered real heavily on the right wing propaganda machine(and would also explain why a right wing run TV station such as the FOX network{where i saw the puff peice) would run a story like that.

anyway i liked the movie and i thought that maybe there was some lack of integrity on the movie makers part to pull in foreign cash by eliminating that line that has been part of the superman icon for many many years.

Peace, Yeah ya war mongers, PEACE,,,TWS

[mantis108]

Are we talking, by reinventing Superman over and over again(practically a marriage of modern day mytho and media), it is to some degree revisiting the "American Experience" for Americans in particular? BTW, I see comics today has the same capacity of conventional media. If so, It would be interesting to see how the world and the critics view and receive this latest updated version.

Mantis108

[@PLUGO]

I enjoyed the film as well.

TWS thanks for clarifying what you meant. And I think we sort of are talking about how the Superman mythos does seem to change and evolve with the times. Considering this character was first created in the mid 30's alot has changed since then.

Visually there are many changes that have happened. The costume design has changed. Even his mighty \S/ has seen sevaral changes. Look here. (http://www.supermanhomepage.com/images/miscellaneous/s-evolution.jpg)

As mentioned in the above article the "the American Way." has not always been there. Interestingly Truth & Justice always have, meanwhile such things as Tolerance have come and gone. "all that stuff" seems suitably post-modern to me. But of course tastes may vary...

Interesting that the far right seem upset that Superman can no longer be easily used as a icon for a new American Century.

[DouglasFir]

I just said it was a German idea, refering to the German philosopher who popularized it. MP was the one who brought up the nazis.

If you ever want to read the closest thing you'll get to a nazi Superman read Alan Moore's "Miracleman" - over the course of the story he begins to see himself as a better race than humans and by the end he has created a new world shaped by himself where he tells people how to live their lives to be happy... of course that's a very simple recap of a complex story!

The thing is that throughout the story Miracleman is the victim and later the hero and ultimately he is a likeable character... but when you look at the way his character develops and what he does to the human race... basically he's a big old flying nazi!

[KC Elbows]

If you ever want to read the closest thing you'll get to a nazi Superman read Alan Moore's "Miracleman" - over the course of the story he begins to see himself as a better race than humans and by the end he has created a new world shaped by himself where he tells people how to live their lives to be happy... of course that's a very simple recap of a complex story!

The thing is that throughout the story Miracleman is the victim and later the hero and ultimately he is a likeable character... but when you look at the way his character develops and what he does to the human race... basically he's a big old flying nazi!

I'm a big fan of Alan Moore's stuff. I've been considering checking out MM, just hadn't had the time. He did a Superman Annual that was really good, probably the best issue of that comic I'd read.

Watchmen is in preproduction at this point. Moore automatically dissavows himself of films of his work, but this doesn't mean that they were bad experiences, he simply doesn't seem to want to deal with film at all. Not sure if it's true, but I heard he donates much of the profits from films of his work to the illustrators.

I'm wanting to also check out his issues of Supreme.

Thanks for the lowdown on MM.

[@PLUGO]

Alot of people really like Moore's SUPREME for it's riff on all things Silver Age about Superman. His DC comics work has been collected in a trade Paper Back called DC UNIVERSE: THE STORIES OF ALAN MOORE (http://www.dccomics.com/graphic_novels/?gn=4713). It has a handful of his Superman storys (drawn by the ledendary Curt Swan) plus the BATAMN: Killing Joke and some green lanturn and green arrow stories. Great work from a time before he began deconstructing such Genres.

From his newer stuff I'd recomend TOP 10 and League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, which should have been rated R as a Film. This was also the film that turned him off of Hollywood all together.

In short some L.A. screenwriters Sued the Producers of LXG as well as Moore himself for "stealing" concepts they included in a filmscript titled "Cast of Characters." The changes made to Moore's story for the film adapation were apparently taken from that script, but the writers still sought to sue Moore as a part of that lawsuit. Prior to this point Moore was simply disinterested in what Hollywood did to his works. After the legal accusations (which he was found innocent of) Moore stated that we wanted nothing to do with Hollywood and any money that would normally go to him for such films as CONSTANTINE, Watchmen etc... should just go to the artists who Co-created the work.

The recent V for Vendetta film was said to be "based on he Graphic Novel by David Lloyd."

[KC Elbows]

I'm not sure I've ever seen you make a post without a link in it. My faith in the world is shattered.

[@PLUGO]

I'm not sure I've ever seen you make a post without a link in it. My faith in the world is shattered.

oh man... I better fix (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=688448&postcount=39) that

[KC Elbows]

I feel much better.

[GeneChing]

And not just because of BVS (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=1290). ;)


DC to Premiere Chinese 'New Superman' Written by Gene Luen Yang (http://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/dc-premiere-chinese-new-superman-written-gene-luen-yang-n547246)
by DAVID LUMB

DC Comics announced a new addition to the Superman lineup at WonderCon last weekend. "New Superman," an upcoming comic series by writer Gene Luen Yang and artist Victor Bogdanovic, will feature a first for the Superman mythology: A new character from Shanghai, Kenji Kong, will inherit the powers of Superman.

"Everybody in the world recognizes Superman," Yang told NBC News. "The reason he transcends cultures is that he embodies these ideals that are international, that are cross-cultural. We wanted to tell a story that was about the Superman ideal but tell it in a different culture. Regardless of where you grow up, you know what he stands for."


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CefW4ekWwAI1unI.jpg
DC Comics ✔ ‎@DCComics
NEW SUPER-MAN is here with @geneluenyang writing! Check it out 7/13! #DCRebirth
10:11 AM - 26 Mar 2016 · Los Angeles, CA, United States
440 Retweets 568 likes

DC Comics has yet to release details about how the 17-year-old Kong will acquire his Superman-like abilities and impact the DC universe, but the company has told fans that inheriting the powers — and the mantle — will be a struggle.

"Getting those powers, it changes his body obviously, but it also changes his heart," Yand said. "When he starts off, he's kind of a jerk. Once he gets this piece of Superman in him, it will change who he is."

Yang's previous works, including "American Born Chinese" and his recent "The Shadow Hero," have dealt with stereotyping of Asian Americans and the resulting identity struggle many Asian Americans face. Yang explored the duality of Superman when he was tapped by DC last year to write 10 issues of the main Superman title. For Yang, the child of Chinese and Taiwanese immigrants, writing "Superman" was an opportunity to dig into the immigrant experience, which he'd also done for the comic anthology "Secret Identities."

"One of the guys who was involved with 'Secret Identities,' Jeff Yang, a columnist for the Wall Street Journal, he used to talk about how Superman is an Asian American: He has black hair, he wears glasses, he has two different names — an American name, Clark Kent, and a foreign name, Kal-El, with a hyphen in it," Yang said. "His parents are non-English-speaking and sent him to America to have a better life."

http://media4.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2016_01/1365101/gene-yang3_7a1d8aa566a2ed160bd75335d4ea8a65.nbcnews-ux-600-480.jpg
Gene Luen Yang is also the 5th National Ambassador for Young People's Literature. Albert Law

Yang said he didn't come up with the base idea of the character that would become Kenji Kong. DC co-publisher Jim Lee and chief creative officer Geoff Johns came up with the idea of an Asian Superman and gave him to Yang to develop into a full character. For Yang, that meant doing some homework to develop an authentic Chinese character.

"Kenji Kong — I created that name with my mom," Yang said. "I wanted to find a name that works in Chinese and is immediately pronounceable to an American reader. With Kenji Kong, we stuck with the hard-K sound like Clark Kent. I would definitely be more comfortable writing a Chinese-American character, as I myself am Chinese-American. Writing a Chinese character is, for me, a lot like writing 'The Other,' another culture. So it requires a lot more homework and talking to people who actually live that experience."


"[JEFF YANG] USED TO TALK ABOUT HOW SUPERMAN IS AN ASIAN AMERICAN: HE HAS BLACK HAIR, HE WEARS GLASSES, HE HAS TWO DIFFERENT NAMES — AN AMERICAN NAME, CLARK KENT, AND A FOREIGN NAME, KAL-EL, WITH A HYPHEN IN IT. HIS PARENTS ARE NON-ENGLISH-SPEAKING AND SENT HIM TO AMERICA TO HAVE A BETTER LIFE."

Kong joins a growing stable of superheroes of color, though many of them have been unable to grow beyond their mantles, according to cultural critic Keith Chow, founder of the cultural criticism site The Nerds of Color and editor-creator of the two "Secret Identities" collections.

Marvel's current Hulk is Korean American Amadeus Cho; African American Sam Wilson is one of two Captain Americas; Miles Morales is an Afro-Latino Spider-Man; and the teenage Pakistani American Kamala Khan is the current Ms. Marvel. But only the latter two have become very strongly associated with their superhero mantles, Chow said.

"Now when you say Ms. Marvel, you're associating it with Kamala Khan and not necessarily [the first Ms. Marvel] Carol Danvers," Chow told NBC News. "For a segment of the population, their Spider-Man is Miles Morales. That's a character that's not going away to the dustbin of history. That's my hope for Kenji Kong, that he's not just a character that shows up for a couple issues and disappears. Having a talent like Gene gives me hope that that's the case."

Yang acknowledges that concern, but believes there's good and bad with giving a person of color the mantle of an established hero, a balance that gives immediate recognizability to a new character of color. As a reader, he doesn't discount the importance of having original Asian and Asian-American characters.

http://media3.s-nbcnews.com/j/newscms/2016_01/1365096/160106_seth_meyers_marvel_0e67dd4058ae8de8326c0145 37dc929f.nbcnews-ux-600-480.jpg
The cover of Ms. Marvel #1 featuring Kamala Khan. Khan is the first Muslim-American superhero to be featured in their own dedicated comic book series.

Whether Kenji Kong sticks around the DC Universe is uncertain: To some extent, it's in the hands of the fans.

"We'll see," Yang said. "I'm hoping he finds a place in the DC universe, I'm hoping he finds a place in the hearts of DC comics fans."

[GeneChing]

KENJI KONG
DC Comics’ new Superman is a Chinese teen with a Japanese name (http://qz.com/651601/dc-comics-has-given-its-new-chinese-superman-a-japanese-name/)

https://qzprod.files.wordpress.com/2016/03/rtr4ysth.jpg
The all-American hero goes east. (Reuters/Mike Segar)

WRITTEN BY Josh Horwitz OBSESSION
China's Transition March 31, 2016

DC Comics recently announced a new Superman comic book series with a twist—the titular hero hails from China. Instead of mild-mannered journalist Clark Kent, the upcoming Superman will be a 17-year-old teenager who lives in Shanghai.

https://qzprod.files.wordpress.com/2016/03/american_born_chinese_preview_by_gene_yang_-_issuu.jpg
Gene Yang’s American Born Chinese(Geneyang.com)

New Superman will be penned by Gene Luen Yang, an Asian-American cartoonist whose previous work centers around ethnic identity in the US. His comic book American Born Chinese merges the traditional Chinese tale of The Monkey King with the story of an Chinese boy growing up in the United States.
“Everybody in the world recognizes Superman,” Yang told NBC News. “The reason he transcends cultures is that he embodies these ideals that are international, that are cross-cultural. We wanted to tell a story that was about the Superman ideal but tell it in a different culture. Regardless of where you grow up, you know what he stands for.”


DC Comics (https://twitter.com/DCComics/status/713775333049110528/photo/1) Verified account
‏@DCComics
NEW SUPER-MAN is here with @geneluenyang writing! Check it out 7/13! #DCRebirth

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CefW4ekWwAI1unI.jpg

RETWEETS 485 LIKES 610
10:11 AM - 26 Mar 2016
Los Angeles, CA
Gene Luen Yang

As well-intentioned as the revamp may be, DC has already set itself up for ridicule. The Chinese Superman is named Kenji Kong—a name that sounds unmistakably Japanese, not Chinese. Yang said that Kong’s creators settled on the name because native English-speaking readers wouldn’t struggle with it.

“I wanted to find a name that works in Chinese and is immediately pronounceable to an American reader. With Kenji Kong, we stuck with the hard-K sound like Clark Kent,” Yang told NBC.
But the internet’s multi-cultural watchdogs can be very unforgiving and DC’s announcement of the character was met with some scrutiny on Twitter and Chinese social media.


美奈子 ‏@YuanSerenaP Mar 27
@DCComics @geneluenyang I love this. But why is a guy from Shanghai named Kenji? It's a Japanese name.
0 retweets 1 like
Reply Retweet
Like 1

Gene Luen Yang (https://twitter.com/geneluenyang/status/714892546023948289?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw) @geneluenyang
@YuanSerenaP @DCComics Thanks! We're excited about it. Kenji can be a Chinese name too: 孔恳记 (Simplified) 孔懇記 (Traditional)
RETWEET 1 LIKE 1
12:10 PM - 29 Mar 2016

“Does he understand China? He’s not afraid of criticism?” one commenter wrote (link in Chinese) on Sina Weibo, referring to Yang.
The new Chinese Superman is part of an ongoing trend in the comic book industry to make superheros more multi-cultural. A new version of the Incredible Hulk, for example, features a Korean-American as the titular hero.
It’s not clear if DC’s Chinese Superman is intended to appeal to actual people in China. Most comic books in China mimic Japanese manga, not the US’s cape wearing muscle men, but the genre is a smash at the Chinese box office. Seven of the top twenty highest-grossing foreign films in China have featured superheroes (link in Chinese).
These films illustrate how difficult it can be to create entertainment that appeals to two audiences with different languages and cultures can be difficult. Awkward segments tailor-made for Chinese audiences often fall flat. The version of Iron Man 3 distributed in China, for example, includes scenes where Tony Stark drinks a Chinese milk drink, and goes to China for surgery. The alterations were widely ridiculed in China.

In Mandarin, the name would be Kong Kenji. Still sounds Japanese, but that's the Chinese translation.

[GeneChing]

GENE LUEN YANG REVEALS "NEW SUPER-MAN'S" NAME (http://www.comicbookresources.com/article/gene-luen-yang-reveals-new-super-mans-name)
Posted: 2 hours ago

http://www.comicbookresources.com/imgsrv/imglib/300/0/1/New-Super-Man001-cover-colors-final-blog-571143666a5190-64005868-f15cf.jpg
"New Super-Man" by Viktor Bogdanovic

Move over, Clark Kent -- there's a new Superman in town!

This summer, "Superman" scribe Gene Luen Yang and artist Viktor Bogdanovic will join forces to bring "New Super-Man" to DC Comics. Writing for DC Entertainment, Yang discussed his involved process for developing "New Super-Man's" secret identity and the meaning behind the Chinese character's name.

In his essay, Yang described his initial discomfort with the project, explaining, "My mom’s family left Mainland China when she was just an infant. She spent most of her childhood in Hong Kong and Taiwan. My dad was born and raised in Taiwan. My family hasn’t lived in China for at least a generation. I've only visited China twice, so my understanding of Chinese culture is through echoes."

"I would be writing about Chinese life as an outsider, but some American readers would assume that I was an insider simply because of my last name," he continued. "It seemed like a situation fraught with peril."

Regardless, he decided to take his own advice: "to read and write outside of their comfort zones." In naming the character, he established a set of parameters in order to develop an appropriate identity:


One of my first tasks as the New Super-Man writer was to give our lead guy a secret identity, a Chinese civilian name.
I thought for a while and came up with these constraints:

1. The name would need to be a plausible Chinese name.

2. The name’s meaning should relate to the character’s journey in some way.

3. The English version of the Chinese name should be derived using Pinyin. There are different ways of Romanizing Chinese. A lot of what we see in American Chinatowns uses a system called Wade-Giles (or is “Wade-Giles-ish”). Pinyin is now the standard in Mainland China, so that’s what I want to use in the book.

4. The English version should have the initials K. K. I want to use this as a mnemonic device to help readers connect the new character to Clark Kent. I can’t use C. K. because there is no hard c in Pinyin. The Pinyin c is pronounced “ts,” like in “cats.”

5. The English version should be immediately pronounceable by American readers who haven’t studied Pinyin. This means I have to avoid certain letters like x (pronounced kind of like “sh” in Pinyin) and q (pronounced kind of like “ch”).

6. The Pinyin version cannot sound Japanese.

Constraint #6 was added later in Yang's process, as the name he initially came with bordered too closely to a popular Japanese name. "What would I think if I were a casual comics reader and I encountered an Asian super hero named Kenji Kong as a supporting character in a couple panels of a DC comic, without any context for the name?" he asked himself. "I'd probably assume some non-Asian writer had confused Asian cultures. I was only thinking about how I’d make this character and his name work in the particular story I was going to write... I had to change the name."

As such, he went back to the drawing board, which led him to the character's official secret identity:


孔克南 Kenan Kong
南 Nan means “south.” Appropriate for a kid from Shanghai, since folks from Beijing like to call folks from Shanghai “Southerners.”

克 Ke means “to overcome.” What could be more Super-Man than “to overcome”?

Kenan isn’t quite as easy to pronounce (in Chinese, it’s closer to “Ken Ann” than “Key Nan”), but it’s pronounceable enough. And it definitely satisfies constraint #6.

For more on Yang's "New Super-Man," check out his full blog post on DCComics.com.

"New Super-Man" #1 goes on sale July 13.

This might need its own indie thread here someday...

[GeneChing]

Over a Shazam (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70875-Shazam) cameo? srsly?


SEPTEMBER 12, 2018 6:55am PT by Tatiana Siegel, Borys Kit
Henry Cavill Out as Superman Amid Warner Bros.' DC Universe Shake-Up (Exclusive) (https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/henry-cavill-as-superman-warner-bros-dc-universe-shake-up-1142306?utm_source=Sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=THR%20Breaking%20News_2018-09-12%2006:55:00_ehayden&utm_term=hollywoodreporter_breakingnews)

https://cdn1.thr.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/scale_crop_768_433/2018/09/cavill_superman_out_11.jpg
iStock; Courtesy of Warner Bros.

Talks broke down for a cameo in 'Shazam!' due to scheduling conflicts, and the door is now closing on other potential appearances for the actor.
The DC cinematic universe appears to be losing its Man of Steel.

Henry Cavill, who has played Superman in three films, is parting ways with Warner Bros., sources tell The Hollywood Reporter. The British actor, who first donned the blue suit for 2013's Man of Steel, and then starred in 2016's Batman v. Superman and last year's Justice League, is said to be hanging up the red cape.

Warners had been trying to enlist Cavill, who most recently co-starred in Mission: Impossible — Fallout, for a Superman cameo in Shazam!, which stars Zachary Levi and will bow April 5. But contract talks between Cavill's WME reps and Warners broke down, and the door is now closing on other potential Superman appearances.

That's because the studio has shifted its focus to a Supergirl movie, which will be an origin story featuring a teen superheroine. This effectively removes an actor of Cavill's age from the storyline's equation given that Superman, aka Kal-El, would be an infant, according to DC lore.

Furthermore, Warners isn't likely to make a solo Superman film for at least several years, according to another source. "Superman is like James Bond, and after a certain run you have to look at new actors," says a studio source. As such, Cavill will join Ben Affleck, who isn't expected to reprise his role for director Matt Reeves' forthcoming Batman stand-alone film, as a hero on the way out.

"While no decisions have been made regarding any upcoming Superman films, we’ve always had great respect for and a great relationship with Henry Cavill, and that remains unchanged," read a statement from a Warner Bros. spokesperson after the initial publication of this story.

A Warners source says the Shazam! deal fell apart because of scheduling conflicts. And that is backed up by the fact that Cavill recently signed on to star in the Netflix series The Witcher. However, another source says that the Witcher commitment came after the Warners impasse, suggesting a change in Warners' strategy.

"There's a recognition that some parts of the previous movies didn't work," says the studio insider. Another source says Warners is trying to hit a "reset" button with the DC universe, steering its ship slowly into another direction.

While Affleck and Cavill are segueing out, others who were seen together onscreen in Justice League are carrying forward. Gal Gadot is returning for Wonder Woman 1984, to hit theaters in November 2019. Jason Momoa headlines a solo Aquaman movie this December. And Ezra Miller remains on board to star in a Flash movie, which is due to shoot in early 2019.

Warner Bros. CEO Kevin Tsujihara and chairman of Warner Bros. Pictures Group Toby Emmerich are looking to reinvigorate the studio's DC Universe, which is still playing second fiddle to the Marvel Universe in terms of box office and critical acclaim. Just six years ago, when The Dark Knight Rises closed out the Christopher Nolan trilogy, DC was the superhero team with the mojo. But so far, only Patty Jenkins’ Wonder Woman spinoff has lived up to the promise of the franchise.

What Warners hasn't done is wiped the slate clean in one fell swoop, something that is nigh impossible to do given the years of planning that goes into these films. When asked about the studio Sept. 6 at an investor conference, new WarnerMedia CEO John Stankey said, "Hats off to Kevin and Toby and their team." But he also took a shot at DC. "Some of our franchises, in particular at DC, we all think we can do better."

A version of this story appears in the Sept. 12 issue of The Hollywood Reporter magazine. To receive the magazine, click here to subscribe.

Sept. 12, 9:45 am Updated with a statement from a Warner Bros. spokesperson.

[GeneChing]

:rolleyes:


HENRY CAVILL
'SUPERMAN' CONFLICT IS FAKE!!! (http://www.tmz.com/2018/09/13/henry-cavill-superman-warner-bros-money/)

https://images.tmz.com/2018/09/13/0913-henry-cavill-alamy-4.jpg

9/13/2018 8:11 AM PDT
Henry Cavill's 'Superman' Conflict with Warner Bros. is Made Up
EXCLUSIVE

The social media firestorm over Henry Cavill's fate in the next installment of 'Superman' turns out to be an invented conflict ... TMZ has learned.

Sources in the know tell TMZ, there's no real discussion over the main role because there's no active 'Superman' project. It's true ... Cavill has felt he was underpaid for the role and that's an issue, as is what some say was an underwhelming performance.

We're told if and when the next 'Superman' project is greenlit, Cavill along with others would be in play. If, for example, a director felt he was the perfect guy for the role, he could end up with another cape assuming he and the studio could come to terms.

Cavill posted a video Wednesday insinuating the door is not closed.

The whole brouhaha started when Cavill turned down a cameo in "Shazam!" over money, and then accepted a Netflix deal for "The Witcher." Apparently, some people thought he moved on from 'Superman,' but the fact is there's no conflict ... because up to this point there's no movie project.

We really don't need another Superman movie anyway. We need this (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?70784-Birds-of-Prey).