Shoots, neck cranks

[Meat Shake]

Just curious, but how do all of you deal with the shoot?
Please be specific as to which shoot your particular defense is usually worked against. (IE single leg low crotch, double leg high crotch, double leg low, ect...)
And BJJ guys... Defense against a neck crank?

[Water Dragon]

Against a single or double? Sprawl and go for the Guillotine choke.

What type of neck crank are you talking about Bro?

[Oso]

sorry couldn't resist...


hmmm, can't you do a wizzer against a single leg if you sprawl to the same side as the leg being grabbed?

[Meat Shake]

wizzer? Please explain.

WD - Im on my back with kirk in guard, his eblows on my chest and hands wrapped around back of head. Neck gets cranked.
:)

[Water Dragon]

Relax bro, you're not in and danger from that position, he can't choke you and you have the superior position.

Just grab one of his elbows at the crease, hip out, and go for a standard armbar from guard. He's basically setting himself up for it.

[Oso]

looking for a pic now...

the wizzer as I know it is when you have your arm wrapped over theirs and you are basically beside them and cranking down.

if they shoot a single and you sprawl to that side and slip your arm over their arm that is wrapped around your leg you could, I think, pry them down and away. I used to use it back in HS to set up a cross face into a scarf hold.

[Meat Shake]

Ahhh.... yes... armbar.
Appreciated. We've worked armbar against neck crank before, I just forgot I guess. :)

Also had a friend go with me last night, he says hes going to continue training. Dudes about 6'1" 200 or so, has experience in collegiate wrestling and a killer shoot.
Other than that, still pretty much just me, gene, and kirk.

[Oso]

http://www.ncwa.net/Multimedia/Press%20Box/gallery?gal=2&start=90


not enough time to look but this is a cool website.

[Water Dragon]

I was speaking with Kirk yesterday on e-mail. He speaks real well of you Bro. I have my final interview with Edward Jones on Tuesday. I'm hoping to be out there in about 3 weeks.

[Meat Shake]

Good to hear. :)
Sorry to say though, Ill be moving to minnesota in december for music school... Ill be back for probably about a month a year, but other than that Ill be stuck to advancing my training via video. :(
No shuai chiao in MN. :(

[Oso]

Tito teaches the wizzer:

search the page for 'wizzer'

http://sfuk.tripod.com/reviews/titoortizvideoseries.html

******, lots of references but no pictures

http://www.wvmat.com/preston/syllabu.htm

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Meat Shake
wizzer? Please explain.

WD - Im on my back with kirk in guard, his eblows on my chest and hands wrapped around back of head. Neck gets cranked.
:)

either arm bar or sweep him.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Meat Shake
Good to hear. :)
Sorry to say though, Ill be moving to minnesota in december for music school... Ill be back for probably about a month a year, but other than that Ill be stuck to advancing my training via video. :(
No shuai chiao in MN. :(

you can train capoeira with red5!

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by Meat Shake

Also had a friend go with me last night, he says hes going to continue training. Dudes about 6'1" 200 or so, has experience in collegiate wrestling and a killer shoot.
Other than that, still pretty much just me, gene, and kirk.

Who's Rudy and Steve?

[Meat Shake]

Rudy = Kirks Aikido practicing neighbor that comes on seldom occasion to class. Good guy, just the whole aikido thing... ;)
Ill give it to him though, hes hella hard to tap out.

Steve = 45 yr. old that recently started training with us. Also a good guy, but hurt his knee at legacy and will be out for a while. Hes just kinda observing from the side and calling out errors he sees for now.

"you can train capoeira with red5!"
Who knows, maybe r5 will want to learn some shuai chiao. :)
Im going to continue training, so chances are Im going to need to find people who want to learn how to throw peoples heads at the ground.
:D

Oso- still no luck with a pic? Its ok... Ill look around and see what I can find.

[Oso]

nope

it's basically an over hook applied from the side and intended to flatten your opponent.

in HS we were taught to use it sort of like a fake to get them to react with upward force as they try to keep there face off the mat.
if we could get them to bob up then he hit them w/ a cross face while turning into them for the take down and scarf hold.

[Meat Shake]

Ahhh.... I see.
The wrestler showed us an interesting way of turning out the knee if you are already caught, it sets you up really nicely for a crucifix.

[Oso]

Originally posted by Meat Shake
Ahhh.... I see.
The wrestler showed us an interesting way of turning out the knee if you are already caught, it sets you up really nicely for a crucifix.

by grabbing the far arm and rolling accross their back?

or pulling it back to you?

[Meat Shake]

Say he shoots for my right knee.
Pivot on right ankle outward, drop right knee to the ground, while pivoting, the left foot steps forward to be even with the attackers midsection.
At this point, the leg part of the crucifix is already set. Reach over his back and hook his arm, pull back and roll onto your back and thrust out your pelvis, locking his arms. :)

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Meat Shake

Who knows, maybe r5 will want to learn some shuai chiao. :)
Im going to continue training, so chances are Im going to need to find people who want to learn how to throw peoples heads at the ground.
:D


find a good judo group.

[Oso]

rolling back is definitely safer but we would play with rolling the other way if they countered your movement back.

heh, I got a crucifix, once, my 2nd to last HS match ever.

[Meat Shake]

Shuai chiao, judo, bjj...
I hate gi's with a burning firey passion. :mad:
Eliminates a good portion of "reality" when you have a gi to grab.... I heard something about a san shou school up there.... And Im sure I can find a bjj school that has people down to roll no gi... Judo however.... :confused:
Do any of you guys that train judo ever train without a gi? (Im talking during class only)

[Meat Shake]

"heh, I got a crucifix, once, my 2nd to last HS match ever."

Im not real good at it yet, but its one of my favorite moves. Just needed to learn a few more set ups for it. :)

[Water Dragon]

Bro, you're going to Minnesota. They wear coats there 8 months out of the year. Train with the gi Bro. Learn to choke somebody with their own parka.

[Meat Shake]

Im a thick skinned southener, born and raised, and most likely will be moving somewhere hot again as soon as I finish school. :)
I dont mind a *little* gi training, but I sincerely do not want that to be the focus of my training.
Either somewhere hot or japan... And from what I understand, japan has wrestling pits everywhere the same way america has parks and basketball courts. :eek:
:D

[unkokusai]

Originally posted by Meat Shake

Either somewhere hot or japan... And from what I understand, japan has wrestling pits everywhere the same way america has parks and basketball courts. :eek:
:D


Well, in the summer Japan is pretty hot. Someone exaggerated to you about the wrestling pits though.

[Meat Shake]

If there are 5 in japan, thats 5 more than there are here.
;)

[SevenStar]

you can actually do alot of judo's throws gi less. I'm not sure you'll find a group that trains that way though. Afe few of our bjj guys are big into judo, so we work throws with no gi on occasion.

[ShaolinTiger00]

double - sprawl to a neck plumb. knee until desired effect is achieved.

single - crossface to rear naked choke.

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by ShaolinTiger00
double - sprawl to a neck plumb. knee until desired effect is achieved.

single - crossface to rear naked choke.

nice

[yenhoi]

Defending a shoot has alot to do with matching or defending his level change. With that in mind, from top to bottom.

Head: Stuff the top of your head into his neck on one side or the other.

Hands: Double shoulder stop or hands ontop of the shoulders next to the head. Or any tie-up you please.

Forearms: Cross face or forearms on either side of the neck as he comes in.

Hips: Sprawl, combine with one or none of the above.

If you crossface, whether you end up standing or sprawled ontop or to the side of him, you should be able to hit him with something.

As far as Minnesota goes, www.mnkali.com has a variety of programs, and at any rate has Rick Faye and lots of other talent regularly during the year.

:D