Weightlifting and Dynamic tension

[bung bo]

i have had an injury that hasn't allowed me to lift weights so i've been doing dynamic tension and gained a fair amount of strength with it in only a couple of weeks. i can generate a good amount of tension too, way more than the 2 weeks ago. a classmate taught me some stone warrior stuff and it about killed me this morning, but it's really good stuff. my injury has almost healed enough where i can get back to the weights. i'm going to start PTP. my question is this:would the dynamic tension curtail my strength gains from the weights? could and should i do both? would they be counterproductive or complementary to each other?

[fa_jing]

Pavel Tsatouline has said that Dynamic Tension gives you good results for about a month, but that these results then taper off rapidly. I don't think it would hurt you unless you are a highly specialized athlete, but you may experience diminishing returns.

[FooFighter]

Mr. Fa_Jing is correct, but I would say that dynamic tension is part of the magic of correcting technical performance of PTP exercises. You have yo generate dynamic tension in certain areas of your body before you attempt a lift or movement in PTP. Therefore, dynamic tension does go hand in hand in PTP when you think about it. Best of luck with your training. Heal fast soon and remember your success is our success.

Bao

[mickey]

FooFighter,

"...your success is our success"

Your words make you sound like a future KFM moderator.:)

I like your style.

mickey

[FooFighter]

MIckey:

Me, a future KFO moderator? Heck No, Sir. I would leave that job for those who were bullied as children. =) I am kidding. Thanks for your kind words.

"Your success is our success" is part of my understanding of Coach Scott Sonnon's philosophy of strength found in his CST book. It touched me so much and now I believe the best way to improve myself is to help others seek out their own success. By helping others we help ourselves. Likewise when we hurt or curse others we hurt and **** ourselves. People just dont understand "thoughts are things."

Furthermore, there is no much negative energy within the martial art world and in within this community in general and I hope that I can bring some positive vibes. Because I sincerely believe we all should not focus on the negative such as hate, jealousy, and etc but we all should work toward the positive development of each indivdual's success including our enemies. We are all in this world to make a difference and we can not do that by ourselves alone. Hence, your success is our success.

I am looking foward in learning more about your discoveries and successes, Mickey. Keep in touch. By the way, my real name is Bao.

[bung bo]

thanks for the advice guys. my forearms are getting tougher.

Foo--i totally agree with you. by hurting others we only hurt ourselves. this is a very simple idea, but has taken me a while to realize. also, you've given me a lot of good advice on this forum-so, thanks.

[rubthebuddha]

I would leave that job for those who were bullied as children. hey screw you bao, you no-good piece of ... i willingly gave my milk money to those guys ... who were ...

... seven inches taller ...

... than me ...

nevermind. :o







:D

[FooFighter]

Mr. Bung Bo:

I am happy to have read you are getting stronger and getting results from your PTP/Dynamic tensions. Why dont you share your experience with us? Maybe it will encourage others or maybe help me and others understand PTP and dynamic tension better? If you have more suggestions or questions, I would love to help out. Much success on your journey.

RTB, I somehow knew you gave your milk money away. LOL. You dont like asserting your power on others which is cool. You a cool KFO moderator, but I only wish you were like Mayor Rudy of NYC. He controled and managed NYC with an ironfist and got things done even in our worst time 9/11 and didnt tolerate any BS from anyone, especially foreigners. LOL. Be well, brother.


Bao

[bung bo]

what i've been doing is 2x5 of bench and curl with just tension hard as he11. the other stone warrior stuff i mentioned is 1)stand with feet together and arms chambered-step out left, block with palm toward right-step out right, block right with ridge of your hand-step in left and underhand palm strike with left hand. do 6 reps on each side. 2)stand in left hillclimb-bring left arm over like an overhead punch, turn into a downward block-right fist comes through with uppercut-bring left hand over with a downward palm block-right palm strike. 6 reps on each side. stay tense and REMEMBER TO BREATHE. contract your abs and butt, and squeeze your fists hard. i haven't done any specific ab work in a while and my abs are harder than they've ever been with this stuff. it takes a few workouts to learn how it all works. i highly recommend the unweighted practice to see how maximal tension feels if you're a beginner. when you put weight on your bar it gets a little different. you can ask ironfist or neigung about stone warrior stuff.

[FooFighter]

bung bo

Thanks for sharing your experience and I truly apprenicate the time and energy you spent in providing information of the stone warrior which I am ignorant about. I have one point I would like to mention. When you bench bench and curl just using body tension alone without external weights, then I am afraid you have misunderstood the science of PTP.

I am assuming you have read and applied PTP. The reason being is the body does not truly produce greater tension without being under real tension. This goes against the Sherrington Law or what Pavel called the law of Irradiation. Doing dynamic tension by itself will not increase the potential neuromuscular contraction. I see the value of dynamic tension and I know one of my martial role models Bruce Lee have trained and applied this type of training, but it is not the magic bullet that it appears to many people.

Lastly, the Stone Warrior stuff sound interesting. Can you provide any additional links on this kind of training? I practice wing chun gung fu and there are plenty of dynamic tension within our forms and techniques so I believe many martial artists arent ignorant of dynamic tension, however there are many sincere martial artists who are ignorant of traditional strength conditioning methodologies developed in the west and some who have a bias against it for various of reasons.

Your success is our Success,
Bao

[bung bo]

Foo--i actually haven't been able to add any weight because of my injured wrist, hence i haven't actually done PTP. i had forgotten about the Sherrington law. one of the main reasons i didn't want to stick exclusively to dynamic tension was that my ligaments and tendons were not being exposed to real resistance. thanks for bringing that to light for me.

the stone warrior is a dynamic tension set practiced by the green dragon gong fu school (not sure which style, i think something southern) in ohio. unfortunately they do not have a website. do a search on here. there is some stuff about it.

[FooFighter]

Mr. Bo,

Heal Fast and thanks clearing that up. Best of luck in your training and when your school website is up, please let me know. Your success is our success.

Your Friend In KFO,
Bao

[bung bo]

sorry for making it sound like that, but green dragon is not my school. you can go to the my school's website at ponglai.com (http://www.ponglai.com)

[IronFist]

A main difference between dynamic tension and weight lifting (or contracting against a resisting object) is that in dymanic tension, since there is no external resistance to contract against, both antagonist muscles will fire. If you do a slow dynamic tension punch with your whole arm contracted, even tho your triceps are responsible for extending your arm, your biceps will also contract just as hard as your triceps throughout the movement. I guess this occurs to provide resistance to your triceps so it doesn't rip your arm off :)

Anyway, if you did the same motion laying on your back with weights (like a bench press or whatever), you would see that as you extended your arm, your triceps would contract hard in order to move the weight, but your biceps would be completely relaxed (unless you consciously tense it).

This is the same theory by which Janda situps work. By curling your hamstrings and pressing your feet down into the ground, you are forcing the hip flexors to relax (cuz they're the antagonist muscle in this case).

So remember:

Contracting against an external force = only the working muscle contracts

Contracting against no external force = both the muscle and the antagonist contract.

Play around with this and you'll see that it's an interesting property of your body. Remember, tho, that gravity and bodyweight both count as external forces.

Here's something you can try. Hold your arm up in the air with your elbow at a 90 degree angle. Now flex your "biceps." Notice how your triceps contracts along with it, and there's nothing you can do to prevent it (other than press your hand against something to provide resistance; then it would be only your biceps because of the external resistance).