Faat sao vesus kick

[Hendrik]

Seeing a few pictures....

Using the Faat Sao ( or whatever people call that hand ) versus kick. Be it Round horse kick, or side kick, or hook kick, or side kick then turn into round horse kick, or side kick then turn into hook kick (round horse or hook kick depend on the position)......




IMHO, two critical things needs to be implemented for the WCner,

1, the head has to in some degree avert from the kick's possible hit range. a, the hand is not as strong as leg, b, Say, the side kick is over, butwhat if it swings back with a heel hook kick. which is a very common combination for the kicker. So, let him has the empty space but not one's head at the worse case. without having some "room" there, one is looking for trouble.

2, the front leg of the WCner's stance has to be " enter"/'jamin" to close to the focrum(sp) leg of the kicker. how close? about a feet and half away the most. So one can put the kicker in the position to have trouble to "land" or back off his kick.. , or/and interupt/jamming the around the knee of the kicking leg with Bong...etc in case some changes take place.. ..... so take away the key of the power generation.


if the one rely on the arm to block the leg or not prepare for the combinational changes of the kick. if one does not make sure one has some control on the key of the power generation or put him in an awkward position. I dont see it is even safe to even get it. I think it is very ignorance to stand many feet away to counter a kick with faat sau.

Things can looks great copying others but in the reality I rather not take a round horse kick or a hook kick on my face.

what do you think?



just some blue sky thought. ofcorse it is just a THEORY . Hmm, let see, the last kick which is so closed that almost get me is a Kyokushin turning Axe kick. it actually axe down and almost touch the tip of my nose. But that is decade ago. :D

[Train]

But what if you dont have time to move out of the way or duck? Then I suppose you have to use your arms and hands to defend your self. no, yes, what do you think?

[Train]

I think it is very ignorance.


hmmm..... why is that ignorance? what you do you mean by that? pls explain!

[YongChun]

What's a Faat sau anyway? I have seen Kwun sau (high Tan sau + low Bong sau) used in photos against a roundhouse kick. Two Hong Kong Wing Chun people got their arms broken using the Gan sau against a roundhouse kick. Maybe Kwun sau is ok against a midlevel high side kick because it doesn't clash with the force but against a roundhouse kick it would be a problem especially if the kick has the force of a professional baseball player swinging his bat into this kind of hand. But probably the idea is to take out the support leg with a kick first and the hand configuration is just to absorb a bit (maybe quite a bit) of the remaining kicking force.

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by Train
But what if you dont have time to move out of the way or duck? Then I suppose you have to use your arms and hands to defend your self. no, yes, what do you think?


Just, IMHO,

Aways leave some tit angle or room for "If-i" stuffs. IE. Some can fake with a side kick and the real one is that heel hook with the same leg when one think the kick is over. so dont think, dont follow FORMULA. AWARE. make it a habit to have some room to bounce away. good kicker can always changes thier kick in the air in the middle of the execution.


some love to use singer arm technics to against kick and can do it very well. that is great.

but I think a tripple boundary zone attack is safer. tripple boundary zone meaning, lead arm zone, guard arm zone, room to avert zone.

if the kick penetrate the first two zone then hopefully the power was reduce to a certain lower lever. and now, duck the hell out of it. otherwise, take it and bounce out with it. Dont ground to resist.


and ofcorse the trouble of all of these is, if one is not being kick for thousand of kicks. one doesnt have the feeling.... or the AWARENESS..... not to mention to enter into the kicker's teretory to jam his pivot (sp) focrum (sp) leg. or one can use the shoulder to slide in to....

Not a simple thing and nothing is guarentee.

if you are force to us the hand to defense. Dont do faat.

Do slap.
just slap. pak.

as in the Kuen Kuit of SLT said "Pak Sau Siu Lek" Pak Sau disperse/drain out force."

When dont have place to duck sometimes just fall is better then get kick when one is rooted or grounded. Dont take the full trust. Dont set up oneself to fail. if it fail, fall with the less destructive side.

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by YongChun
What's a Faat sau anyway? I have seen Kwun sau (high Tan sau + low Bong sau) used in photos against a roundhouse kick. Two Hong Kong Wing Chun people got their arms broken ....


IMHO, I never believe in singer arm against leg, high or low. once crash bone vesus bone the arm is over. unless one has the IRON ARM.

I think pak sau is the best singer hand technics..

Sure, the very important thing is to take away the pivot(sp) or support leg. But sometimes, it is not that easy to "walk/jam" in. The entering distance control is critical as you know."

As for the pro kicker, the power release at the contact is very very penetrating.

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by Train
I think it is very ignorance.


hmmm..... why is that ignorance? what you do you mean by that? pls explain!


have one seen breaking woodern rod with round house kick? breaking tiers with axe kick and reverse hook kick?

and BTW. those pro-kicker doesnt stand in one fix place to kick.

The beauty of kick is that it always can use the "to be land" kick leg after the exercution to switch/select its best position of the next attack, in the same time avert from attack. it moves it flows. the center line keeps changing.

as for lots of people stand a few feet away has none in anyway or anything treat to the kicker, and forget what happen. thinking that one's hand technic can do it all. while the kicker's attack continous to comes from a different angle, again and again until it find one's weakness and take one out. isnt that ignorance standing there like a beef bag?

You dont have to believe me. Just Go to Thai Land for a match or join one of the Kyokushin open tournoment or get into one of the k1. see for yourself what works what not?

As for me, I owe it to Mas Oyama's teaching when I was young ---- put your both hand up to protect your head .... never use a block.... get in and sweep his support leg out.... move, move, move dont stand there ....

[Matrix]

Originally posted by Hendrik
Things can looks great copying others but in the reality I rather not take a round horse kick or a hook kick on my face.

what do you think? Hendrik, I absolutely agree with you. As a former kickboxer and TKD player, I can tell you that trying to block a roundhouse with a single hand will not work, unless the kick is weak. Moving "inside" the kicking power is your best bet, with moving outside the range as a secondary option. Yes, you should use your hand to "defend yourself", but footwork is the key here, IMHO.

I do not agree that you must just do slap, as you have indicated. Depending on the situation, Quan Sao may be good, or even a punch to the quadricepe could be effective. Of course, if you can just kick the kicker's supporting leg, that may be best. In all cases though, you must be moving (or have moved) out of the power range of the kick.

*Bill

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by Matrix


I do not agree that you must just do slap, as you have indicated. Depending on the situation, Quan Sao may be good, or even a punch to the quadricepe could be effective.

Of course, if you can just kick the kicker's supporting leg, that may be best. In all cases though, you must be moving (or have moved) out of the power range of the kick.



Bill,



With Quan Sao, my take is it needs bigger movements and might get trick into getting the kick on lower rips up.....or head from my experience with the double side kicker (such as Thai or Kyokushin where both legs can be used in a continous chain attack, compare with some kicker who only use one side of the kick for attack un -evenly.)

Another things is once the elbow drop under certain level of the body, it needs some effort to get it up to head level... that makes it open for head attack. I found it the arm goes down from head guard position is "easier" then raise the arm from a lower position upward.

I agree with you too on not "just slap". there are different condition.
I like to stay not commited as possible to follow up any second or third wave of attack.
in addition, a slap to the...or hahahaha.... punch is great but I like the open palm, I found it more flexible.... I like things can constantly changes.



Certainly there are different ways everyone feel confortable with.



In addition, I also agree with you on move or walked in.

[AmanuJRY]

The thought of stopping a kick with a hand technique alone...makes me laugh uncontrollably.

The important thing, which has been stated, is range control. If I am at a kick range, I can move out of range or inside the kick range, and away from the apex of the kick (where most force is present). Any hand technique used is in conjunction with footwork/body movement and is not intended to stop the kick with force or a rigid shape (this is where injury comes in).

My favorite is kwun sau (which is high and low guan sau as I was taught) forward (toward opponent) while moving inside range. The lower guan can lau under the leg (if the kick is high) and take the kickers balance while striking the face/head/neck with the high guan.

If you can't move quick enough to change the range.......develop attributes more. May be your footwork is too rigid.

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by AmanuJRY

If you can't move quick enough to change the range.......develop attributes more. May be your footwork is too rigid.


or may be the opponents is very skillfull to control the range...

[Gangsterfist]

YongChun-

Faat sao (or sometimes callled fak sao) means questing hand and is in all three open hand forms. The application I think we are talking about would be in the biu jee form.

My brother has 10 years of TKD and 5 or 6 years of wing chun in my kung fu class. He is a black belt in TKD. Even though he does not practice his kicks like he used to, he can still kick hard and fast with a high level of control. Its like when certain martial artists dis on karate because it commits too much to its attacks. Well, they have answers for it. Being a karate guy myself years ago, they teach to redirect the attack if blocked or dodged. Just like a TKD guy for a kick. They can turn a side kick into a hook kick no problem.

I have been told as a last ditch effort if you need to block a high kick with hand techs, you should rotate the body and try to roll it off the elbow area. Easier said than done, thats why its a last ditch effort tech

[Hendrik]

I consider using Faat Sau in a certain way to conter kick is an erro.

[Matrix]

Originally posted by Hendrik

Certainly there are different ways everyone feel confortable with.

In addition, I also agree with you on move or walked in. Hendrik,
Agreed. Like I said, it really depends on the situation, and of course timing is everything.

*Bill

[Matrix]

Originally posted by AmanuJRY
The important thing, which has been stated, is range control. If I am at a kick range, I can move out of range or inside the kick range, and away from the apex of the kick (where most force is present). Any hand technique used is in conjunction with footwork/body movement and is not intended to stop the kick with force or a rigid shape (this is where injury comes in). Yep. :D
The best part is, that this is the "natural" Wing Chun approach. We want to get in close.

*Bill

[AmanuJRY]

Originally posted by Gangsterfist
Faat sao (or sometimes callled fak sao) means questing hand and is in all three open hand forms. The application I think we are talking about would be in the biu jee form.

G-fist,

Faat sau means expelling hand (http://home.vtmuseum.org/terminology/glossary.php?dfn=c&Ssearchfield=Common+Spellings&SsearchFor=faat+sau&Ssortfield=English+Translations&Sway=ASC&Slimit=20), man sau is questioning hand.

[Gangsterfist]

I thought it was fak sao (questing hand) like going on a quest, out seeking, venturing forward, on a quest, not questioning.

And mon sao (wiping hand)..

but my cantonese is very pitiful.

[Train]

Aways leave some tit angle or room for "If-i" stuffs.

make it a habit to have some room to bounce away


What do you mean by that? Are you even understanding me!!! OK let me be more CLEAR then :) Lets say you see a round house kick coming and you don't have time to "bonce away". You will have to use your hands and arms to deal with it.

I consider using Faat Sau in a certain way to conter kick is an erro.

Just because you don't understand how other lineages use the Fak sau doesn't mean it is an "erro" (you mean error)



have one seen breaking woodern rod with round house kick? breaking tiers with axe kick and reverse hook kick?

Have you seen those shoali monks break stones, bricks, 4x4s..ect. with their arms and fingers? have you seen a very old tai chi guy throw a person 3x their weight? So.........

Sounds like you are not just the lineage holder your style of WC, your also now a master of kicks. Jack of all trades. Your Off the hook dude!!!! :)

Peace!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Train]

as for lots of people stand a few feet away has none in anyway or anything treat to the kicker, and forget what happen. thinking that one's hand technic can do it all. while the kicker's attack continous to comes from a different angle, again and again until it find one's weakness and take one out. isnt that ignorance standing there like a beef bag?

Good lord!!! Is that what you think of when someone using a Fak Sau against a kick!!! now you are saying that no one can handle a kick with a hand technique??? hahahah Your funny!!!! ANYWAYS.....!!!

Peace!!! really this time :)

[Gangsterfist]

Train-

If you let a round house come in at that range it will be at its most powerful by momentum. I think what everyone is saying you can use your hands but you better step in to take some of that power away from the kick. If you don't and take it full force you will probably eat it.

[Hendrik]

Lets say you see a round house kick coming and you don't have time to "bonce away". You will have to use your hands and arms to deal with it. --------- T


If one still has hands and arms to deal with it, one dont have time to bounce away?

if one love to use one hands and arms that is one's choice.






I consider using Faat Sau in a certain way to conter kick is an erro.

Just because you don't understand how other lineages use the Fak sau doesn't mean it is an "erro" (you mean error) -----------T


This topic discuss about Faat Sau not lineage.

If you have a different technical view and wants to bring out to discuss. Please go ahead.









have one seen breaking woodern rod with round house kick? breaking tiers with axe kick and reverse hook kick?

Have you seen those shoali monks break stones, bricks, 4x4s..ect. with their arms and fingers? have you seen a very old tai chi guy throw a person 3x their weight? So......... ----- T



What is the Chance one meet a kicker who can cause serious damage with kicks to one's blocking limbs or head in a K1 or Muay Thai match around the world, then meet those shao lin monks and old tai chi guy?





Sounds like you are not just the lineage holder your style of WC, your also now a master of kicks. Jack of all trades. Your Off the hook dude!!!! :) -------- T


Just because some people do not have a clue about swiming and all different style of swiming. The train swimmer of olympic game become the jack of all trades?


What has who am I got to do with this technical discussion?





Peace!!!!!!!!!!!! ------ T


Without the Awareness training, how can one who fills and shows with ego reach that freedom and peace?

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by Gangsterfist
Train-

If you let a round house come in at that range it will be at its most powerful by momentum. I think what everyone is saying you can use your hands but you better step in to take some of that power away from the kick. If you don't and take it full force you will probably eat it.


Gangsterfist,

You know, it is always very easy for some to just drop one's view and learn from others when one has zero understanding about what is what.

But, for some, it just has to learn it in a hard way in Thailand or japan, or ....else place when the whole team get wipe out.

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by AmanuJRY
G-fist,

Faat sau means expelling hand ....man sau is questioning hand.


Hi Guys,

Yes, Maan Sau means "asking/probing hand"
Faat Sau doesnt mean expelling hand.
Faat or Fak means Whisking .

The Faat has a problem when the attacker slide in via the "whisk". Such as a Snake slide in when one beat it with a stick by using the stick as the bridge.

Thus, letting the "snake" slide in while doing FaK was consider an Erro of application.

[canglong]

originally posted by hendrik
You know, it is always very easy for some to just drop one's view and learn from others when one has zero understanding about what is what.
But, for some, it just has to learn it in a hard way in Thailand or japan, or ....else place when the whole team get wipe out. The what is energy and when you understand that you won't have to travel to Japan Thailand or anywhere else searchng for truth as you do.

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by canglong

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
originally posted by hendrik
You know, it is always very easy for some to just drop one's view and learn from others when one has zero understanding about what is what.
But, for some, it just has to learn it in a hard way in Thailand or japan, or ....else place when the whole team get wipe out.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The what is energy and when you understand that you won't have to travel to Japan Thailand or anywhere else searchng for truth as you do.



sometimes people takes the easy way,
sometimes people takes the hard way.

All human.

[Train]

Gangsterfist! :)

If you let a round house come in at that range


I don't think we are talking about the PICTURE here dude! :)
And besides Hendrik said
I consider using Faat Sau in a certain way to conter kick is an erro.

So my understanding is that Hendrik know all about the Fak Sau.
What do you think about this picture Hendrik? http://www.wingchunkwoon.com/leaf_2.asp#top
last pic on the right. I think it's a good pic. Do you? :)

Canglong! I guess the only good kickers are in Japan and Thailand! :)

sometimes people takes the easy way,
sometimes people takes the hard way.

I guess Hendrik takes the easy way. Hope I meet you one day Hendrik so you can teach me the easy way ;)

[Matrix]

Since the other thread was deleted before I could post, I'll put it here.


Originally posted by anerlich
No doubr Messrs Gee and Redmond were looking for some pizazz to "look cool", hence the high kicks. The great unwashed love it. Makes sense. Most people are familiar with Karate and TKD kicks. They are flashy, and let's face it, there are people who will throw them. It's a big mistake to apply the general "rules" of your art to everyone else. I prefer to keep my kicks low for lots of reasons, others don't have my limitations, so they can and will throw them.

Also, making a judgement based on a frozen second ( or 1/1000 of a second) in time is ill advised. Even video has it's limitations. Let's not confuse marketing photo-ops with practical application. It's just counter-productive.

Peace,
*Bill

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by Train

I guess Hendrik takes the easy way. Hope I meet you one day Hendrik so you can teach me the easy way ;)


Dont guess. you are wrong.

I learn in the hard way with the Kyokushins and Muay Thais.

You want to learn. Go take an Kyokushin open in Japan or Muay Thai open match. No one can teach you the experience. Your have to gain it for yourself.

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by Train
So my understanding is that Hendrik know all about the Fak Sau.
What do you think about this picture Hendrik? http://www.wingchunkwoon.com/leaf_2.asp#top
last pic on the right. I think it's a good pic. Do you? :)





Even Bruce Lee did some flasy POST for his movie for movie shake. So, What is the big deal?



The real trouble, is as in the Silicon Valley, Some people is so smart to even copy others mistake into their Chip while they are pirating others chip.

When goes to court. Guess what the judge is going to say?

[Train]

GEEZ!!!! ok already, if you want me to say you are right then you are right.... Calm down dude!!! Feel better :) Hope you feel more warm and fuzzy inside like a pink bunny :D


peace out dude!!!

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by Train
GEEZ!!!! ok already, if you want me to say you are right then you are right.... Calm down dude!!! Feel better :) Hope you feel more warm and fuzzy inside like a pink bunny :D


peace out dude!!!


One who dont attach to Warm doesnt reject cold.

[Rhat]

Originally posted by Hendrik
sometimes people takes the easy way,
sometimes people takes the hard way.

All human.

One thing for sure: When you are saying what's not there (Hendrik's 4 modes), you are soaring with the postmen. And people know it when they hear your noise.

[Da_Moose]

Train,

Don't get so frustrated by Hendrik. He often neglects to add little things such as "In my experience" or "in my opinion" to his posts. Thsi negelct in turn makes them seem as if he's speaking for all Wing Chun, which also in turn leads to these almost pointless threads because of individuals trying to make him aware of this. it also leads to other issues, such as the lineages debates and such. I now just mentally add "from his perspective/experience/opinion to anything he says and it helps quite tremendously.


Sounds like you are not just the lineage holder your style of WC, your also now a master of kicks. Jack of all trades. Your Off the hook dude!!!!

Don't take this the wrong way, for it will sound.......bad. I say this with all intents for constructive criticism. Hendrik, if your a lineage holder, isn't your responsibility to be preserving your lineage in some way/shape/form? If you're a lineage holder, I hope you're not your system's only one, or it may die out, and that would not be good. If you teach the way you converse here, in haphazard fashion and not sharing what you intend to, I wouldn't want to be your student for very long, and I can't imagine who else would. The HFY guys get railed constantly for being "too secretive and unwilling to share information". I believe you're beginning to fall into that category as well.

I know I digress from the Faat Sau theme here and I apologize.

Based on some of the pictures that are going around regarding the Faat Sau against the kick, in these cases a high roundhouse, I would have to say that only those playing the technique know what they want to do. We can analyze all day until we’re blue in the face, but until we are capable of mind-reading, all we can do is speculate. Also, as has been pointed out, the photos are one moment in time, so maybe this is a transitory expression. Who knows is the “Faat Guy” moved into to intercept the kick? Was he simply standing there and used a Faat against it? We don’t know. As the pics in question are from TWC or HFY, we need to ask those with that experience for their input, otherwise, we’re just guessing and such about an experience we may not have had before.

[Hendrik]

Based on some of the pictures that are going around regarding the Faat Sau against the kick, in these cases a high roundhouse, I would have to say that only those playing the technique know what they want to do.



We can analyze all day until we’re blue in the face, but until we are capable of mind-reading, all we can do is speculate.


Also, as has been pointed out, the photos are one moment in time, so maybe this is a transitory expression. Who knows is the “Faat Guy?moved into to intercept the kick? Was he simply standing there and used a Faat against it? We don’t know.


we need to ask those with that experience for their input, otherwise, we’re just guessing and such about an experience we may not have had before. --------------






Let See how different peole with different conciousness will answer this post:

1,
Posting by the person which let others walk/off hook, and understant human can makes mistake, and not nailling people.:

Even Bruce Lee post flashy post for movie. So what is the big deal. A post is just a post.



2,
Posting by the fighter, instictive, direct non-giving face type:

Dont buls@@t with all the Craps. What the #@$! talk is that "the photos are one moment in time, so maybe this is a transitory expression....".

Do you stand there and see and look and wait and learn and ask your opponent to show you all about how he wants to kick you with his kick before you counter him?

What the @#$% kind of martial artist are you if you cant have and "intuitive" to know right away how to counter and flow with it from the first glims of the others' long range TKD kick?

What the $@#$! talked is that ---- "Who knows is the “Faat Guy?moved into to intercept the kick? Was he simply standing there and used a Faat against it? We don’t know" ---- How close is the leg to the head? time? space? energy? How far is the step away from intercept other's supporting leg? How what is the options there to avoid take it in the head? what is the momentum or it stand there still like a statue? You dont know? then sh@#$$ up because you are not even awake.


"we need to ask those with that experience for their input, otherwise, we’re just guessing and such about an experience we may not have had before." Experience? get a truck load of scientist to do balastic research inverstigate for a year and write five inch of time and space and energy research report which have a sentence of conclusion that you must be sleeping or un attentive and slopy? If you are sleeping, dont expect others do the same, no one will ask for a truck load of scientist to waste time, space, and energy.

Hey, this is just post for ad man.
Dont playing Smart A@@ to explain things to make it not what it is. The more you trying to explain and reason for not what it is. is going to make you look worst. If you @#$%% bite the bullet. If you dont know. say so. and get it over.






3,
Posting by the Chinese Daoist TCM type:


You see, the Yuan Shen, opps, the Attention is dull. The Yuan Shen is dull means the mind is dull, the body is clumsy. The reaction is going to be slow. This is just a Post. dont take it serious. But the Qing chi Shen is not full and sharp and alive, the guys might be not having enough sleep. while posing.




In my humble opinion, I like to post as the first one, if I am asked to choose.


This post is about technical discussion, please keep it that way.

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by Da_Moose
. Hendrik,

1, if your a lineage holder, isn't your responsibility to be preserving your lineage in some way/shape/form?

2, If you're a lineage holder, I hope you're not your system's only one, or it may die out, and that would not be good.


3, If you teach the way you converse here, in haphazard fashion and not sharing what you intend to, I wouldn't want to be your student for very long, and I can't imagine who else would.


1, lineage holder? You mean stand infront of the 6 stars hotel in NYC waring the general's suit to look after/hold/keep the Glass Door (gate) and polished that Door everyday. I dont do those polishing glass door stuffs. I love technical stuffs, not standing there as a Looker.


2, Still water become rotten fast. Chaos is reality. Evolution/revolution is nature. when it is time to live, live. when it is the time to die, die. who dies, who alive, who survive, what is the big deal? what to hold? what to keep? You still dont know that non dual, Chan, Shao Lin's top secret : the immovable heart stuffs? and still keep clinging to those still and dead stuffs? soon it become rotten.


3, I dont teach. people learn gain experience by themself. I converse to push people to SWITCH CHANNEL. that is very very fun and ZEN. like it fine . dont like it fine.

[AmanuJRY]

Originally posted by Hendrik
Also, as has been pointed out, the photos are one moment in time, so maybe this is a transitory expression. Who knows is the “Faat Guy?moved into to intercept the kick? Was he simply standing there and used a Faat against it? We don’t know.

Thus, I post my haiku again;

When it's caught inside
The spirit of the moment
sunset or sunrise

[PaulH]

Ah, a Haiku! Here is mine:

When you're free thinking
The body of your existence
living or dying?

[AmanuJRY]

Your message is great, but your form is sloppy.:D

(one too many syllables in the second line, supposed to be seven, you have eight, but then eight is lucky right.;) )

[PaulH]

You're right!. Can't be sloppy when it comes to poetic justice! Okay, here it goes. =D

When you're done gnawing
The husk of your existence
living or dying?

P.S. I just loved your sunrise and sunset imagery. Pardon moi for being a tad overboard with the Haiku! =)

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by AmanuJRY
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Hendrik
Also, as has been pointed out, the photos are one moment in time, so maybe this is a transitory expression. Who knows is the “Faat Guy?moved into to intercept the kick? Was he simply standing there and used a Faat against it? We don’t know.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Thus, I post my haiku again;

When it's caught inside
The spirit of the moment
sunset or sunrise


Thus, I didnt post that what was qoute

[duende]

Originally posted by Hendrik
1, lineage holder? You mean stand infront of the 6 stars hotel in NYC waring the general's suit to look after/hold/keep the Glass Door (gate) and polished that Door everyday. I dont do those polishing glass door stuffs. I love technical stuffs, not standing there as a Looker.


2, Still water become rotten fast. Chaos is reality. Evolution/revolution is nature. when it is time to live, live. when it is the time to die, die. who dies, who alive, who survive, what is the big deal? what to hold? what to keep? You still dont know that non dual, Chan, Shao Lin's top secret : the immovable heart stuffs? and still keep clinging to those still and dead stuffs? soon it become rotten.


3, I dont teach. people learn gain experience by themself. I converse to push people to SWITCH CHANNEL. that is very very fun and ZEN. like it fine . dont like it fine.

1. You love technical stuff??? Makes sense because you can't get beyond that level understanding. I see you learned a new technique in *^%&%.

You think that makes you look tougher or more street dude?? Ha! Your funny.... sad, but real funny.

And btw... You sure do have a big glass door in front of you. It's called a mirror, and you'd better polish it because you definitely are in need of seeing yourself for what you are.


2. Yes Chaos is reality, that's why your pak/side stepping techinque designed to work in and ideal world will only take you so far.

Oh I see your back to your non-dual chan yappin'... talk about still water.

3. No you don't teach, one wonders what kind of life you have at all. It's pretty pathetic how much time you spend creating post after post. Obviously, your hope of somehow gaining some solid ground to support your ego this way isn't working.

8 new threads in a matter of days.

so much time talking to yourself under different KFO id's???

PUT THE COMPUTER DOWN, AND GO PRACTICE KUNG FU. YOUR TURNING INTO A KFO STALKER.

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by duende
1. You love technical stuff??? Makes sense because you can't get beyond that level understanding. I see you learned a new technique in *^%&%. .....

................. It's pretty pathetic how much time you spend creating post after post. Obviously, your hope of somehow gaining some solid ground to support your ego this way isn't working.

8 new threads in a matter of days.

so much time talking to yourself under different KFO id's???

PUT THE COMPUTER DOWN, AND GO PRACTICE KUNG FU. YOUR TURNING INTO A KFO STALKER.




what is the above has to do with Technical discussion?

One can start 1000 threads in a matter of hours, if it benifits others in Wing Chun Kuen and others love to discuss why not?
It is a public forum.


KFO stalker?
or the trolling reaction above is due to Fear and suffering.

[Hendrik]

There is a Localization Evolution with what was called Faat or FAk Sau in the past few decades.

is Faat sau a BIn Sau (whipping arm) after lan sau,
Or a wang Fan (horizontal split arm)? wang FAn Sau also was called White crane open its wing....

Check out the different between Yip Man's SLT and YKS's SLT.

[Rhat]

Originally posted by duende
No you don't teach, one wonders what kind of life you have at all. It's pretty pathetic how much time you spend creating post after post. Obviously, your hope of somehow gaining some solid ground to support your ego this way isn't working.

8 new threads in a matter of days.

so much time talking to yourself under different KFO id's???

PUT THE COMPUTER DOWN, AND GO PRACTICE KUNG FU. YOUR TURNING INTO A KFO STALKER.

duende,

"My soul can find no staircase to heaven unless it be through earth's loveiness."--Michelangelo

Although I am somewhat embarrased to admit it, I don't know why Hendrik spends so much time creating post after post. Maybe he really enjoys *himself in pubic* very much. Does he practice kung fu? That's another story. Someone said, "Thought he gave up regular training of WCK years ago due to his *COSITAS* lots of little things."

[Vajramusti]

Hendrik sez.
or the trolling reaction above is due to Fear and suffering.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IGNORE the trolls including the returning rolling hand- rhat-
Simple.

[Rhat]

Joy or whoever,

I'm not Go Jun Long or rolling hand or whoever. I'm just a WCK practioner. If you have some issues with other folks, please deal with them directly.

For every time in stress, you need a recovering time in relaxation. Like good chi sau, be gentle, you're too stiff.

Good day, sir!

[Phenix]

Originally posted by Vajramusti
Hendrik sez.
or the trolling reaction above is due to Fear and suffering.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
IGNORE the trolls including the returning rolling hand- rhat-
Simple.


Totally Agree.
Let them talk to the fire wall is much as they want.


Let' talk about the Localization Evolution of Faat or Fak Sau.....

[Rhat]

Originally posted by Phenix
Totally Agree.
Let them talk to the fire wall is much as they want.


Let' talk about the Localization Evolution of Faat or Fak Sau.....

"wall"

LOL, there are no walls. Otherwise, we wouldn't see Hendrik again. What's the matter between you and this troll "JOY"? Canlong said he's the cheerleader.

Now, Hendrik...are you ready to answer the questions before talking about something else?

[Vajramusti]

Hendrik-

Of course I dont know your family wc, I dont know white crane
and I dont know Chinese.
But as far as labels go---for the slt two handed horizontal motion - for me is faan sao....separating hands

The sweeping/whisking biu jee motion which goes down and up in a vertical plane is fak sao.

In the wc that I do derived from the Ip Man tradition. ...both have many uses and applications. They both cam be sharpened in their timing in chi sao and the jong and in motion and practice with someone else.

joy chaudhuri
www.tempewingchun.com

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by Vajramusti

But as far as labels go---for the slt two handed horizontal motion - for me is faan sao....separating hands

The sweeping/whisking biu jee motion which goes down and up in a vertical plane is fak sao.


joy chaudhuri
www.tempewingchun.com


Joy,

great points

[AmanuJRY]

Originally posted by Hendrik
Thus, I didnt post that what was qoute

Sorry, didn't mean to misquote.:(

...but the statement did prompt me to post.;)


Separating hands?
Whisking hands?
Sweeping hands?

Faat/Fak sau of old?
Faat/Fak sau of local evolution?
Faat/Fak sau of this WC?
Faat/Fak sau of that WT?
Faat/Fak sau of the other VT?

My question is what are you doing with it???

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by AmanuJRY
Sorry, didn't mean to misquote.:(

...but the statement did prompt me to post.;)


Separating hands?
Whisking hands?
Sweeping hands?

Faat/Fak sau of old?
Faat/Fak sau of local evolution?
Faat/Fak sau of this WC?
Faat/Fak sau of that WT?
Faat/Fak sau of the other VT?

My question is what are you doing with it???


One has to know is it, Sharan Stone, Angelica, Diaz, Paris Hilton,...american excent, european excent(sp).. to knows what is the role for them to make a good movie.

[AmanuJRY]

And just like Faat/Fak sau, many a casting agent puts them in the wrong roles......and the movie sucks! (or at least is not as good as it could be).;)

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by AmanuJRY
And just like Faat/Fak sau, many a casting agent puts them in the wrong roles......and the movie sucks! (or at least is not as good as it could be).;)


yup.

Chan You-Know has to be in Chan place. Fak Ming-Qing has to be in Fak place. Chan doesnt replace Fak. Fak doesnt replace Chan. both not interfering but supporting if place right. and has to consider Jacky Chan too where is he belongs to :D

[duende]

This is all very technical... NOT!!!


Hendrick could you possibly be more shallow. I guess that's the nature of a stalker.

Ulitimately obsessed with just himself.

[Rhat]

Originally posted by Hendrik
yup.

Chan You-Know has to be in Chan place. Fak Ming-Qing has to be in Fak place. Chan doesnt replace Fak. Fak doesnt replace Chan. both not interfering but supporting if place right. and has to consider Jacky Chan too where is he belongs to :D

"Chan You-Know" ?????
"Fak Ming-Qing"??????

If you have all the answers (and you sound like you do), then answer it directly. Especially when you want to say something, pay attention to your words.

"Jacky Chan"???
"what is the above has to do with Technical discussion?"

[Matrix]

Originally posted by Rhat
"what is the above has to do with Technical discussion?" I just want to know where my rum and coke is?

[Rhat]

Originally posted by Matrix
I just want to know where my rum and coke is?

When we are willing to open our consciousness to "rum and coke," and new ways of thinking about issues, then our "technical discussion" change for the better.;)

[Matrix]

In some parts, a rum-and-coke is also known as a Cuba Libré. Think about it....