Do your Wing Chun TRain 180 degrees rotation

[Hendrik]

Do your Wing Chun TRain 180 degrees rotation similar to the turning back kick or turning back ....

do you use to facing something which is turning?

[Gangsterfist]

We train 180 degrees from the front.

[Hendrik]

Originally posted by Gangsterfist
We train 180 degrees from the front.

what do you do?

[Gangsterfist]

One of the things we do is this:

Stand in YJKYM, maintain 50/50 and shift right and then shift back to YJKYM, then shift left. Keep feet at side neutral stance when shifting. One you get good at that you won't have to go back to YJKYM, you can shift from left to right. Its progressive training.

That is the basic traning.

[Hendrik]

Gansterfist,

Thanks.

What do one achieve from this training?

Do you do spining strike too?

[Gangsterfist]

It teaches that the feet move as a symptom of the body moving. In chum kiu you when you do the lan saos and rotate your body should not bounce or hop.

I have been told in multiple attacker situation if you cannot run away you should have a wall to your back so you can fight 180 degrees to the front. Be careful to keep enough distance from the wall though, so you don't run out of room.


I found this useful when sparring people who use big circular foot work, like bagua practitioners. I sparred some bagua guys before (and they like to cirlce) and I did something similar to this to maintain efficency. I would just rotate my body with our exerting uneeded energy until the timing and distance was right to create a bridge or act upon one of his attacks.

[Hendrik]

Great sharing Gansterfist!
Thanks

[AmanuJRY]

Everyone who does Chum Kiu trains 180 degree turning.:D

The lan sau's at the beginning, the turn that comes with the low taan/low bong cycle and the kick at the end. Oops, I forgot, maybe everyone doesn't train CK the same, anyway that is how I learned CK, complete with 180 degree turning.

Also, we have a drill we do. Four corners, each corner a person with focus mit, the corners call out and the person turns to face and throws punches. This trains 180 degree turns in application environment.

[Ernie]

We train 0,45,60,90,degree in respect to an opponent’s position

In reality these are just reference points, if you’re relating to your opponent and adjusting on the fly everything is just a transition nothing fixed or robotic

We also get behind and take down people this might go over 180
We pull and kick out the legs this might be a blend of 2 concepts and angles

When you fight you combine, break, and lead each process might dictate a few changes along the way

Next time I fight I will pause to break out my protractor ask the opponent to freeze and take a measurement for you


we always try and maintain square body faceing , if square body is lost , then wing chun engine is partial , half body faceing or faceing [ mind ] will still work since it cuts timeing but lacks full structural support

but in a live situation all tools come to play

[Matrix]

Originally posted by Ernie
Next time I fight I will pause to break out my protractor ask the opponent to freeze and take a measurement for you Ernie,
Sorry, a protractor is too old school.... far too inaccurate. I suggest a laser-guided-digital-angle-measuring-device to provide superior accuracy. :D

*Bill

[AmanuJRY]

Bill,

I think it would still be considered a protractor, just a fancy laser protractor. And make sure the one he uses is a micrometer as well, I want to know down to the millionth of a degree.:D

[Matrix]

Justin,

I don't think can settle for anything less. ;)

*Bill

[anerlich]

Dude, I do the TWC butterfly sword form with its 360 degree jumping jarm dao.

180 degrees is for wimps :D

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

Well the wing chun masters that I’ve train with (a lot), told me never to turn your back on an opponent and they all agree to that fact, example spinning back first. Have someone stand in front of you and tell them to spin around before you can hit them, or the other way around (you spin). Any body does this, then post on this forum on what happen. Maybe I’m wrong. Try it your self.

Ali Hamad Rahim.

detroitwingchun.com (http://detroitwingchun.com)

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

Hold up; let me fix that. You might have a chance if your opponent is shocked. But just to be spinning to hit, or making bridge contact. You have to be super fast or your opponent is scared of you, one of the two.

Ali Hamad Rahim.

detroitwingchun.com (http://detroitwingchun.com)

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

What are the closes distant between you and I? Straight line vs. circle, which one would you chooses? That’s maybe a little hard for some of us too guess.

Ali Hamad Rahim.

detroitwingchun.com (http://detroitwingchun.com)

[Matrix]

Originally posted by Ali Hamad Rahim
What are the closes distant between you and I? Straight line vs. circle, which one would you chooses? Ali,
That really depends on the situation. Sometimes we may need to angle-off (change the line). The straight line is geometrically shorter, but the path may not be clean.

*Bill

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

Matrix said:

Ali,

That really depends on the situation. Sometimes we may need to angle-off (change the line). The straight line is geometrically shorter, but the path may not be clean.

*Bill


That’s’ when true skill comes in too play. When the right bio- mechanics are there, a straight line can take them for a hard ride. My whole wing chun life, I’ve been nothing but a inside fighter, I was taught and told to stay away from circles. Circles make your techniques last to long. They are not subtle enough for the Woo Fai Ching System. The only circles we use are the hieung saos, Wrist circling blocks, and a very small movement at that. some people are just to fast too use circular movement on all the time, I’m clocked with four strikes a second. I’m 6ft 5in. I’m to big (traget) too use circular movements on a smaller person. It keeps me in one place or spot for to long. We believe that the feet must follow the hands. Making circular blocks keeps the feet from moving naturally in wing chun. It can be done, but not as quick as the other blocks. If you use the correct forward energy and timing, you can jam your triangle in the right position, where you never have to use circles.

Ali Hamad Rahim.

detriotwingchun.com (http://detriotwingchun.com.)

[anerlich]

Agree with the rules mentioned with the following exceptions:

1. You are attacked from behind (perhaps by a second opponent to the one you are facing)

2. The guy gets an angle on you that means it will take too long to face him again

3. You are Genki Sudo (multiple spinning backfist knockdown/outs in MMA and the K1)

Generally though I agree, face the guy whenever possible. The word "never" should not be overused.

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

I do agree with that statement never say never, how so true. But; if someone is beside you, or in back of you, during a three-man attack, they where put there by their own free will. You have no choice but to turn, we should all know that by now. But even then as we turn, in the 180% to face the opponent, still we must make the feet follow the hands, in the most economical way possible, without large or flashy movements. That stuff you see on pay per view. They are not techninans. Wing Chun is in a totally different class. That is not real combat. For if it was, they would have no rules . Which hurts wing chun a grate deal, with rules they take the fight right away from us. I believe without rules they would be much deadlier then usual, but for some reason I think wing chun is just that deadlier anyway where I'm from we called that stuff a contest, not combat. And every grappler I fought (about six) I knocked out. And over a hundred people can stand up to that statement. I’m not saying that I’m a Billy bad a**, only reason way I didn’t go down was that I stayed there, and face that attack without big our flashy movements, if I was to use a spinning or jumping move I would have got put on the ground which is no big deal to me I’ve been grappling for 16 years. I love it down there. Never turn your back on your opponent. I don’t know, maybe I’m just crazy.

Ali Hamad Rahim.

detroitwingchun.com (http://detroitwingchun.com)

[anerlich]

"They are not techninans. "

Some MMA fighters are extremely proficient technicians. Genki Sudo, Sakuraba, the Shamrocks, Rickson etc. are highly accomplished grappling technicians. Rickson had to defend himself in the street many times.

"Wing Chun is in a totally different class. That is not real combat. For if it was, they would have no rules . Which hurts wing chun a grate deal, with rules they take the fight right away from us. "

Wing Chun can be adapted to the ring. My instructor had a successful kickboxing career with 37 pro and over 100 amateur fights. If someone has problems making WC work in the ring, it is to do with them and not the system. He also had plenty of fights outside the ring, so the sport focus didn't do him any harm in the pavement arena.

The last WC hero that came to our school looking to put down our system got taken, down choked and armbarred into submission repeatedly by someone who was smaller than and had a decade's less time training than he.

That said, I'm glad WC's working for you in your environment. I agree defense is its main focus.

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

The last WC hero that came to our school looking to put down our system got taken, down choked and armbarred into submission repeatedly by someone who was smaller than and had a decade's less time training than he.

“To beat a wolf, you got be a wolf.”

Danzel Washington. Training Day.

I feel sorry for that poor sap. Really doe, he didn’t come prepared knowing there was a possibility he would be taken to the floor. Then he is a fool! I have made many people tap out in seconds, but I still think wing chun is very dangerous, and or most Chinese fighting arts; reason: dim mak, all kinds of nerves and pressure points. Iron palm: h*ll self-explanatory. Learning key points of the body (anatomy) it only takes five pounds of pressure to rip off an ear, I can go on and on. And who cares what somebody else’s can do. Where I’m from when you start talking like that, everybody wants see want you can do. Why run to the man next door? I will never say or talk about what someone else’s can do. When I feel man enough to do it myself. Don’t take that personal. Because it’s not, it always has been my personal feelings on how I feel about that situation. What’s the name of that so-called wing chun hero. And who made him the wing chun hero, and what fool would want that name and title "wing chun hero", I didn’t know we had one, a wing chun hero. But me, I’m only a hero to my children, becaues they said so, and that’s all I care about. Nobody is putting nobody down at all, what I’m saying is that different people have different talents. forgive me.

Ali Hamad Rahim.

detroitwingchun.com (http://detroitwingchun.com)

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

Remember; when a grappler tries to grabs you or even grabs a hold of you, don’t grab them back. If you do, then you are committed to a tussle. Which is counterproductive to the wing chun system, If I had too grab, I would grab the pressure points on a grapplers forearms and neck (Dim Mak). Don’t be a fool and grab someone in a headlock, when you don’t have grappling skills, and when you know he is a grappler. Then you are playing right into our game (a trained grappler).

Ali Hamad Rahim.

detroitwingchun.com (http://detroitwingchun.com)

[Nick Forrer]

If a guy is trying to grab you he is not trying to hit you- therefore there is, albeit momentarily, a window of oppurtunity for you to hit
him. The trick is to hit him AS he tries to grab you- not before and not after. Easier said that done of course and it will depend on the relative skill levels of the poeple involved i.e. can you defend a takedown better than he can execute one. This has less to do with style and more to do with the individual and how your training is oriented. You wouln't get a gappler to throw wing chun attacks at you so why get a wing chun guy to throw wrestling attacks at you. There is a big difference between a lame half assed wide armed tackle which you can spot from miles away, and a sudden sharp level drop folowed by a penetrating creeping tackle which can alternate smoothly from one leg to the other as you soon as you withdraw the leg he initially goes for. Still if you know how a technique works you should be able to work out a way to counter it.

[Ali Hamad Rahim]

You wouln't get a gappler to throw wing chun attacks at you so why get a wing chun guy to throw wrestling attacks at you. There is a big difference between a lame half assed wide armed tackle which you can spot from miles away,

That is so true. If I wanted too grapple, I would go to a grappler. Not a wing chun person for a fight. What you seen on my web site, was my son giving his best shot to his father, that’s all. Still; I have made grown men cry like babies while tapping out; grapplers that is, because I am one, and do teach the finer points on grappling, I have in the pasted ten years, and will never stop. It don’t make a different to me if they are lame (poor skills) or have talent, if you step to me, here in Detroit, you better have your sh*t together. Some people talk, just too hear themselves talking, I’m 40 years old and still love too bang. Ps. my son is not lame. He is a true trooper and a believer of blood and snot while training. He can handled the punishment. He is now 18 years of age and started training with his dad when he was five. Please don’t take this post personal; I know you didn’t say anything wrong, for it’s just a point that I had to bring up. Cause I love my son so very much. And he is a by-product of his father. I expected and demand nothing but greatness from him, no more or less. For he is his father son and he is being watched and groomed for just that reason. My son have more than twice the training then most of the people on this forum. He is the future of the Woo Fai Ching legacy, take care.

Ali Hamad Rahim.

detroitwingchun.com (http://detroitwingchun.com)