Restraint & Holds for Children

[Ming Yue]

One of my clients is releasing this news brief. I had to omit the name of the facility. They are a group home and due to external (parental/legal) pressure are going to disallow the use of passive holds to restrain kids who become violent and are adopting a stance of "talk them down".

This is happening more and more. I think making an across the board policy change like this is a bad idea. Caseworkers should be instructed to try non physical methods first, but should certainly be properly trained and prepared to restrain a child when necessary. I've pasted the text below and am interested to hear what you guys think.


A little known fact about most group homes is that a common way of controlling behavior is to place a child in a physical restraint. This doesn’t mean tying them down, but means that staff are taught how to safely put a child into a hold so they can’t hurt themselves or others. However, it is still an unpleasant experience for both child and staff, and often results in unintended injury. Deaths have occurred from incorrectly executed holds.

XXXX believes that there are better and more preemptive ways to control behavior. As a result, at the Board of Directors meeting in April, XXXX formally changed its policy on restraining children in this manner. Children, when frightened and not trusting of those around them, often revert to aggressive or unruly behavior. XXXX instead is choosing to invest in other ways to help children trust adults, so that behavior does not escalate.

[Oso]

This came to a head locally a few years back when a child was strangled to death at a home a bit north of here. At that time the favorite technique was the 'basket hold' if I remember that term correctly. The picture that was on the news at the time showed what looked like a 'sleeper' hold and did indeed have a rear naked choke going on. This has since been discontinued to the best of my knowledge.

Lar has had the PIC (?) training when he was working with group homes and showed me a couple he had been taught. Not only did they inadequately restrain me but relied on strength to a large degree and left him open for a lot of basic attacks.

[SifuAbel]

Just hang him upside down in a closet for a week or two. Smack him with a rug beater and give him nothing but puppy chow. And if he still gives you trouble zap his nuts with a low voltage taser.

The above is just humor and not advice on child rearing. Do not actually perform such acts on a child. You sick *******.

:D

[GLW]

This is a no win situation...

First, they will probably define child as ANY minor.

I can tell you that after about age 13, the child can do some very serious damage to anyone.

Second, the patients DO know the rules and WILL use them to their advantage...if this means hurting someone because they can't be physically restrained, it WILL happen.

Third, the use of restraining force, while always a last resort, is one of those things that no matter how you do it, there is a risk of patient and/or staff being injured - and sometimes those injuries can be serious.

BUT....you can't throw the use of restraint out because without it, patients tend to escalate to even more violent stages....Control has to be consistent, measured, and perceived as appropriate.

This is not an easy issue to deal with at all.

[ShaolinTiger00]

someone's getting a coco tasso!

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

Originally posted by SifuAbel
You sick *******.



what?

[Ming Yue]

I asked to see a couple of the holds and was shocked. One was a hold from behind, elbows over the shoulders, palms across back of neck. Simply begging for a neck injury, and left the kid's arms and legs completely free to swing around and most likely hurt himself.

The others I've seen were of the same variety they use at the Dept. of Social Services and in most cases leave the holder wide open for biting and kicking.

[BeiTangLang]

I hate in a way to say this, but I know a few teachers personaly that work at a local high-school;
Many of the childrens parents leave discipline up to the school. These kids know their parents don't care what they do & are violently unrulely towards all at the school. The Principals blame the teachers for not controling their students, but when said student is sent to the office, the 1-3 day suspension is what the kid was after anyway.
The cycle continues, the child misses more than the alloted amount of time to be ejected from school & not permitted to graduate.....except,....The principal tell the teacher to revise the students attendance & the student gratuates anyway at the end of the year; but I digress.
The teachers are being subjected to physical danger from students without recourse. Last year at this school a teacher was bitten & another incident, a teacher was choked out.

The schools expect the teachers to just "take it" so to speak to keep the school districts from being sued. The child-abuse laws have become shackles to reality of real-world students & parents.

I say allow techers to carry electric stun-guns. The only damage to the child would be from falling down & that could be controled far better than rtying to restrain a combatant student. A nice side-effect would be their going to the restroom in their pants. This would also be a psychological deterent for many students.

Let me run your school districts! :)
Best Wishes to all,
~BTL

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by Oso
This came to a head locally a few years back when a child was strangled to death at a home a bit north of here. At that time the favorite technique was the 'basket hold' if I remember that term correctly. The picture that was on the news at the time showed what looked like a 'sleeper' hold and did indeed have a rear naked choke going on. This has since been discontinued to the best of my knowledge.



I was certified in CIT (Crises Intervention Technique) when I was in college working with the developmentally disabled. A Basket Hold is basically an over the arms rear bear hug where you sit down with the client and put you r legs over them so you are sitting indian style.

Any type of hold that involves holding the clients neck is illegal and will get you fired (and probably jail time)

[SifuAbel]

I agree that the US has become way too PC about what is acceptable in such situations. Talking down a student that is violent and in need of restaint in the first place is stupid. This issue has to be dealt with a real threat to response ratio. The 13 year old "child" might be 5'10" 185 presenting a real clear and present danger to the teacher or group worker.


There are no absoulutes here. Obviously, slapping a choke hold on a 7 year old is not on the same need basis as on a 15 year old. Which, bodywise, is almost an adult.

[GLW]

They're not talking regular public schools here....

They are talking about treatment facilities - i.e. children with emotional problems (as in a psych hospital, state school) or the non-resident treatment facilities.

In these types of places, children can become violent yet they are not truly legally responsible for their actions in much the same way an adult psychiatric patient is not responsible.

However, in many states, violence in a classroom is getting to be NOT a thing for the principle - but for the local police department.

A friend just recently had an incident where a student threw a CD at her back when she was teaching. The CD careened off course and hit another student in the eye. The police were there and had they had evidence or a witness, there would have been an arrest....and this was with 9th graders.

[Oso]

WD, that makes more sense.

But, I do vividly remember the picture in the paper when it came out and it showed an example of the hold that killed the child as I described above. It was big news at the time for the northern NC mountains.

This was back in the mid 90's

[BeiTangLang]

Ahh,...yes. Treatment facilities would be another animal completely. Thats a tough call, but common sense should take precidence.

[red5angel]

I prefer the choke slam since I can usually pull it off on their tiny little bodies.

[Meat Shake]

School teachers down here jump into the fray.
Administrators go running in with walky talkys shaking and pointing, going for head locks and arm locks. I remember when I was a freshmen, a group of cholos got in a fight... Principal goes rushing in, waving the walky talky like mad... Thug grabs the walky talky, and smashes it over the administrators head. Administrator tackles said thug, and 76 year old coach honeycutt puts the other 2 in headlocks and they escort the group to the office. Cops show up a second later.
...
Oh yeah, there are a lot of cops at MAC, and it was one of the nicer schools.

[GLW]

Back in the day when I worked in Psych wards, I often worked in the adolescent unit...12 - 17 year olds....and very few under 13...

One evening there was a "riot" on the unit. A friend of mine had one of the bigger 16 year olds stand up to him in all of the confusion... kid was taking a fighting pose - semi boxing... and said "YOUR MINE, you can't hit me or you'll get fired...."

My friend reached over, grabbed the idiot by the shirt and introduced him face first to the ground.... As he was walking away to deal with the next violent kid, he leaned down and said "Just remember, I DIDN'T hit you, the FLOOR DID..."

[Oso]

Originally posted by Meat Shake
School teachers down here jump into the fray.
Administrators go running in with walky talkys shaking and pointing, going for head locks and arm locks. I remember when I was a freshmen, a group of cholos got in a fight... Principal goes rushing in, waving the walky talky like mad... Thug grabs the walky talky, and smashes it over the administrators head. Administrator tackles said thug, and 76 year old coach honeycutt puts the other 2 in headlocks and they escort the group to the office. Cops show up a second later.
...
Oh yeah, there are a lot of cops at MAC, and it was one of the nicer schools.


see, that's the way it oughta be...no bs, your kid fukkes up and takes a swing at an adult, then, well, your kid just decided to step up to the big leagues.

[rubthebuddha]

i think it should be the same way with general police action -- if one person's behavior endangers another person's health, an authority (much less anyone else) should have legal ground to use what force is necessary to prevent said harm. kids or not, attacking someone is still a crime, and if someone's raelly in harm's way and doing something quick and aggressive to the attacker solves the situation, then i'd suggest the response not just be permitted, but recommended.

[Oso]

agreed, but don't you think that by virtue of our chosen 'hobby' that we are predisposed to violent resolution of conflict?


nevertheless...

spare the rod and spoil the child

public dueling should be legal.

bring back public flogging.

all executions should be by drawing and quartering with mandatory viewing by all citizens.

that would give would be criminals something to think about.

[rubthebuddha]

not really. much of my training is on non-physical stuff. odds are i'd be better in such a situation, as i don't look the victim part all that well.

when needed, i am predisposed to knowing when and how to use what i know. i'd much rather tie someone up than smack 'em, and, oddly enough, my chin na skills, particularly in chi sau, are better than my striking skills.

[Oso]

was mostly :tooma: ;)

I don't look the victim part either most days.

my close in skills are better as well.

worked as a bouncer for 7 years and am rather proud that I only ever swung on people twice.

however, in retrospect, there were times that things would have been resolved quicker had I done so...as in the time I spent way to long wrestling 2 guys apart while someone else got cut the hell up by a broken cue stick...or the time I was doing a fancy dancy arnis disarm on a guy w/ a tire iron while his buddies all but curbed this dude...

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by Oso
WD, that makes more sense.

But, I do vividly remember the picture in the paper when it came out and it showed an example of the hold that killed the child as I described above. It was big news at the time for the northern NC mountains.

This was back in the mid 90's

Well, that's the media for you. No one ever said they took the time to make sure they were reporting the truth.

[Oso]

WD, true. But, the kid still died from asphyxiation due to the improperly applied restraint.


I feel like these classes are probably taught like a lot of supposed self defense classes: 8 hours and you get the paper but you don't ever retrain the application of the techniques. Then, in a high stress situation, they get misapplied with the added strength bonus of edrenaline.

[Becca]

Originally posted by Oso

Lar has had the PIC (?) training when he was working with group homes and showed me a couple he had been taught. Not only did they inadequately restrain me but relied on strength to a large degree and left him open for a lot of basic attacks.
I have seen some very effective restraints that hurt no one but the one who struggles. I have also seen my little slip of a mother use them on my brother when he was a teen. None of them required more strength than a reasonably healthy person would normally have.

[TonyM.]

There is a safe alternative developed by the universities of Maine and Vermont called Non Abusive Psycological and Physical Intervention. this is where the half basket originally came from.