Grappling basics.

[Mr Punch]

What are your three most important and basic moves to do in;

1) mount

2) side mount

3) rear

4) guard

5) general?!! :D ;)

[Shaolinlueb]

6.) dry hump leg or other body part. :o :P

[ShaolinTiger00]

Can I assume you are talking about how to escape these positions rather than how to control someone in them?

In general escapes rely on 3 things.

1. calm thinking. spazzing will only open you up for attacks. You need a level head to maintain your breath, keep your neck arms and legs safe and make progress towards the escape.

2. Make space. Escape- make space, control- constrict and remove space. You need to make space to move your hips, knees and arms. the biggest thing that will help this will be getting to your side. while your flat on your back you can't get enough leverage or space.

3. Contact points. goes hand in hand with creating space. You've got to control his hips ond or head, upperbody, legs etc depending on the position.

[mortal]

shaolintiger00

On bullshido someone mentioned that you sparred Ralek? Is that true? Is he as good as he says? I have to confess all the sh1t he talks has peaked my curiosity.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by mortal
shaolintiger00

On bullshido someone mentioned that you sparred Ralek? Is that true? Is he as good as he says? I have to confess all the sh1t he talks has peaked my curiosity. oh boy.

[ShaolinTiger00]

mortal

The guy talked some serious junk on the forum and I called him on it and met him. Instead of a tough guy I find a goofy kid who wasn't anything he said he was online. I actually felt ridiculous going there to hurt the kid so we agreed to go hard but controlled. (just like i would with sparring students at school)

the next 10+ minutes was me chasing him around while he kept backpeddling. and moving away. He wanted no part of a "fight" and had probably severly underestimated my wrestling ability. He was not going to do a classic Gracie "range check" to takedown on me without paying dearly for it. he was already getting cut up by the edge of my shoes as he held up his hands to check my kicks.

Finally I got tired of his avoidance and just shot in and double legged him. I landed in side control (not that i knew absolutely anything about ground work at the time) and he did a knee elbow escape to the guard.

Now you'd think that this self professed bjj master would have really been able to really **** me up from here..

but nope. he didn;t do anything. no sweep. no attack. nada. he tried to punch me and tapped me on the corner of the lip.

I promptly tapped my knuckles on his chin to remind him that if he wanted to start punching me, that I was more than happy to start pounding away..

he stopped. imagine that..

after repeated parkgoers were circling and a bike cop was approaching, we stopped and walked back to the cars talking and laughing.

sadly he goes back onto the internet and talks ****.

If I can pass anything on to you from my expereince it would be to ignore internet challeges and if you do go out to meet someone. make it a clear and descisive ending.

[ShaolinTiger00]

btw the me of today could have kicked the me of 3-4 years ago's ass.

my lack of knowledge on the ground set about the wheels in my own mind to seek out the answers for it and I'm a better, more skilled fighter today.

[mortal]

Thanks for the feedback.

I have to agree with you about internet challenges. They are pretty silly.

Would you say he was skilled at all? It doesn't sound like he is based on what yur telling me.

Also are you a kungfu teacher?

[ShaolinTiger00]

bjj skills? very basis at best. when he said that he just watched a gracie jiu-jitsu cd rom and practiced with friends, I beleive it.

I will start teaching San Shou formally in October and I continue to study many combat sports. Team Lloyd Irvin (http://novamartialarts.com)

[WinterPalm]

I know a fellow that does the whole watching UFC and Cd-roms and so forth and thinks he's a great skilled fighter. Then he stepped up in an organized fight with another fellow I know and the fight was pretty much the same deal. Backstepping boardering on running away and then getting a busted cornea, broken hand and busted up foot after not landing one quality or even half quality strike.
After that, he still talks trash about people and how good he is and that the other fighter fought like a b@#%%! Go figure, this wasn't an internet challenge, but I think unless someone like that really offends you in person or attacks you, they are best left to their own destructive lifestyles. Nobody wants to fight and if they do they want it either in the ring with a governing body to prevent unskilled talkers in with fighters, or as a self-defense situation, not a geek at a computer thinking he knows everything because he knows all of Crocops fights. Please:rolleyes:

[Mr Punch]

Just realized, that was terrible wording in the first post!

I've got you in your first ST00, v good post, but I seem to be naturally quite good at those things.

I was thinking that I am in those positions, so, if I've got someone in mount (the first eg), what are my three best options, or rather your three favourite options for simplicity and results!

etc

[Becca]

Originally posted by Mat
What are your three most important and basic moves to do in;

1) mount

2) side mount

3) rear

4) guard

5) general?!! :D ;)
My best option is not to get into that situation.:D Seriously, though. I have a lowsey track record of getting loose once I'm "caught". I have found that wiggling like a pchycotic worm works exactly once on most people. But only if you manage to a) bewilder your opponant, b) they haven't gotten more that 1 point pinned, and c) it don't involve a bar of any kind.

[Becca]

Sorry. That last contained nothing but my most common panic move. This is what I try for when I haven't lost my head:

1) Mount- a) prevent them from pinning 2 points
b) prep to "break out". I.e. get you legs into position and find a grip on thier head (but don't apply much presure yet)
c) let loose with as much sudden ferocity as you can muster.

2) Side Mount- Same as abouve except I'd likely put a stunner to the kidneys an instant before letting loose.

3) Rear- a) single eye dragon fist to thier restraining body part (double if in a full nelson or bear hug)
b) stunner to the floater ribbs if you can reach, groin if you can't.
c) Break the hold

4) Gaurd- I have no clue what you meen by this term, sorry.

[Shaolinlueb]

maybe ralek should provide his expertise here :o

[Mr Punch]

Cheers Becca :D

I get the feeling this thread is doomed...! :D :rolleyes: :p

Let's start with this :

Me
so, if I've got someone in mount...:D

[Mr Punch]

Originally posted by Shaolinlueb
6.) dry hump leg or other body part. :o :P
maybe ralek should provide his expertise here :rolleyes:

[kenso]

Okay, I'll actually answer seriously:

1. Mount:
Mmm, mount's not my favorite position. Just personal preference. From mount, you have the option to rain down blows (assuming you're not in a sporting competition). With gi, you have a variety of front chokes. Without gi, you only have a couple (at least that are convenient). I usually like to gain control of an arm and start isolating it. What happens next depends on my opponent's response to my initial play.

2. Side Control:
It depends on whether you're talking about the scarf hold position or the regular side control position. In regular side control I like to isolate and attack an arm, and set up for an armbar or juji gatame (kimura/keylock) finish.

3. Rear mount:
Umm, let's see here, choke, choke, and choke some more.

4. Guard:
Control and counter.

[Mr Punch]

Originally posted by kenso
1. Mount:
I usually like to gain control of an arm and start isolating it. What happens next depends on my opponent's response to my initial play.That's more like it... so, got any faves?


2. Side Control:
It depends on whether you're talking about the scarf hold position or the regular side control position.Whatever floats your boat!
In regular side control I like to isolate and attack an arm, and set up for an armbar or juji gatame (kimura/keylock) finish.Gooood, I can do those! Kenso, you did/do aiki right? Dunno what your school called it but mine called it just kansetsu waza (which isn't very helpful but...): there's a move if you're going straight through into kaitennage, when you thread your (eg left) arm through their (right) armpit, bring it up, lock their elbow in the crook of your arm/forearm with their forearm against your upper arm/neck/head, so you can push out and down into their shoulder blade/armpit/back of the shoulder to ram them/project them gracefully into the floor/your knee/classic kaitennage.

It's kind of like the wrestling 'swimming' exercise but then continuing through, and I've seen my shooto instructor doing it standing and (and I've done it) on the ground. On the ground it works best from regular side when you shove their elbow downwards through their face...

Jesus, that was a long question but here it comes... What's it called in jujutsu/groundwork... or even your aiki?


3. Rear mount:
Umm, let's see here, choke, choke, and choke some more.Stop stop: the detail is killing me!!! Er, ok, do any of these ****ers have names etc...?!

From guard, pulled off a lovely aikido sankyou the other day. Won't say it's a favourite, or even it's high percentage, but it was a nice example of aiki in a pressure and resistance situation (admittedly on another noob but he's way better than me).

[ShaolinTiger00]

from mount: ude garami

from side control: juji gatame

from knee on chest : okuri eri jime

from north south: ude garami (reverse = kimura)

from guard: gyaku jime

[kenso]

Gooood, I can do those! Kenso, you did/do aiki right? Dunno what your school called it but mine called it just kansetsu waza (which isn't very helpful but...): there's a move if you're going straight through into kaitennage, when you thread your (eg left) arm through their (right) armpit, bring it up, lock their elbow in the crook of your arm/forearm with their forearm against your upper arm/neck/head, so you can push out and down into their shoulder blade/armpit/back of the shoulder to ram them/project them gracefully into the floor/your knee/classic kaitennage.

It's kind of like the wrestling 'swimming' exercise but then continuing through, and I've seen my shooto instructor doing it standing and (and I've done it) on the ground. On the ground it works best from regular side when you shove their elbow downwards through their face...

Jesus, that was a long question but here it comes... What's it called in jujutsu/groundwork... or even your aiki?
If I'm interpreting the description correctly, we would call that gokyo, one of the osae-waza (ikkyo, nikyo, sankyo, yonkyo, gokyo, and rokkyo).

[Becca]

Originally posted by Mat
Stop stop: the detail is killing me!!! Er, ok, do any of these ****ers have names etc...?!

Most all the ones I mentioned have names but I doubt they would be useful to many on this board. But if you realllly want to know...

2) Side Mount- Same as abouve except I'd likely put a stunner to the kidneys an instant before letting loose.
name(s): removal of the jewels, snake and ram, or possably tiger in a cave

3) Rear- a) single eye dragon fist to thier restraining body part (double if in a full nelson or bear hug)
names(s): yeilding in fire, tiger in a cave, and bunch that have no formal name

* I listed several because several work in those situations. which spacific one I'd use would depend on the situation.

[Ray Pina]

1-5

Keep my door closed (maintain strong structure and position)

Open their door (force them to compromose their structure and position)

Then hit

[kenso]

Stop stop: the detail is killing me!!! Er, ok, do any of these ****ers have names etc...?!

Hadaka jime (rear naked choke) More properly a strangulation. Choking arm comes across opponent's throat. Non-choking arm grabs own wrist.

Kataha jime (half nelson choke) Choking arm applies standard collar choke. Non-choking arm snakes around opponent's arm like a half nelson - preferably grabbing own sleeve.

Sode guruma jime (rear collar choke) Like the juji jime or "x-choke", but from the rear.

Jigoku jime - Okay this one's kinda complicated to explain. Both legs are wrapped on opponent's near arm. Choking arm applies standard collar choke. Non-choking arm wraps under opponent's other arm (almost like kataha jime) but grabs own collar.

[kenso]

Originally posted by Becca
Most all the ones I mentioned have names but I doubt they would be useful to many on this board. But if you realllly want to know...

2) Side Mount- Same as abouve except I'd likely put a stunner to the kidneys an instant before letting loose.
name(s): removal of the jewels, snake and ram, or possably tiger in a cave

3) Rear- a) single eye dragon fist to thier restraining body part (double if in a full nelson or bear hug)
names(s): yeilding in fire, tiger in a cave, and bunch that have no formal name

* I listed several because several work in those situations. which spacific one I'd use would depend on the situation.
Becca,
From your descriptions, it sounds like you're talking about techniques used when your opponents have these positions on you. I believe what he's asking for is techniques used when you have an opponent in the stated positions.

[ShaolinTiger00]

Jigoku jime

"hell strangle"

[kenso]

Originally posted by ShaolinTiger00
"hell strangle"
:D

[Becca]

Originally posted by Mat
I was thinking that I am in those positions, so, if I've got someone in mount (the first eg), what are my three best options, or rather your three favourite options for simplicity and results!

etc


Becca,
From your descriptions, it sounds like you're talking about techniques used when your opponents have these positions on you. I believe what he's asking for is techniques used when you have an opponent in the stated positions. Yep. I guess I did get that backwards.:o Now everyone else's responces make alot more sence!:p