Mainland Curriculum

[Andy]

I have met several Chinese martial arts instructors living in the United States who have graduated with degrees in martial arts from the physical education departments of mainland Chinese Universities.

I have also visited a couple of universities in mainland China. It seems as though the standard government sanctioned curriculum is Tai Chi, Hsing Yi, Pa Kua, wushu and they possibly get one course in a southern martial arts style.

Many of these graduates seem to look disparagingly on the southern styles. Is the government attempting to extinguish some of these arts on the mainland?

When I asked my sifu about this he said "The government uses the martial arts to control the people."

Does anyone here have any thoughts or insights on the situation of the southern styles in mainland China?

Andy
Fu Hok Yau Kung Fut Pai

[Nick Forrer]

Wu Shu can be geared towards performance and tai chi can be geared towards health making them both 'sterile' martial arts.

Southern, non flashy pragmatic Styles like Wing chun OTOH are transparently to do with causing as much harm to a would be assailant as possible and so create a greater threat to the authorities. For example it is very hard to put a good WC man in an arm lock/any kind of restraining hold- which has implications for the police/military ability to maintain civil order (or, if you like, to perpetuate state oppression)

[GLW]

Or...

The southern arts were very popular in Hong Kong and Southern China...but that is NOT where the big government folks and the big schools were.

For example, the Chinwoo curriculum is not heavily southern either... nor was the stuff taught at the Nanjing Central Guoshu Institute back in the 1920's and 1930's.

Northern styles tended to be more the thing seen. Also, there is less divergence in method from one northern style to another than in the Southern styles.

Hung Gar - for example...You get two Hung Gar folks together and it is not uncommon for BOTH of them to say the other guy is doing everything all wrong....

How can you create a curriculum with that?

[Andy]

With any style there is going to be differences between practitioners. Why is it that the central government is only concerned with standardizing tai chi, hsing yi, and pa kua???

Of course we're probably better off that they don't meddle in our southern styles but are they trying to diminish or extinguish them? Certainly they would be losing a large and very valuable part of their national heritage.

I think that all of China's martial arts should be documented and preserved in the totality of their variety. This would aid martial research tremendously.

[mantis108]

Well, that's the quality of education for you from Mainland China.

Once upon a time in China, both academic (civil) and physical (martial) educations ran side by side. Even Confucius and his followers understood and/or practiced swordmanship and archery. Now the PROC sanctioned education system can only come up with a styles based curriculum instead of a true theorectical, philosophical and technical based martial arts program. That to me is utterly disgusting.

This lack of true knowledge or simply ignorance about the history of MA in China, vis a vis the evolution of the arts, is abhorring. Not to mention the worst of all, the true understanding of the nature of MA and its real function with regard specifically to modern day Chinese way of life not only within China but also around the world. That type of degree is purely BU!! SH!T.

A MA program that is born without vision is no more than a zombie program. You are churning out nothing but a bunch of zombies or automatons. That is just sad for the future generations. I wonder if the PROC will ever learn.

Anyway, Southern system(s) isn't that difficult to figure out. Most of it can be traced back to Fujian, Jiangsu, and Guangdong provinces. Jiangsu pretty much is where Northern systems ends and gathers. Fujian picks up from there and evolved. It has tremendous influence on both Taiwan, Okinawan and Japan MA BTW. We then find Guangdong MA soaking up all the knowledge and flourished. Guangdong (lately Taiwan as well) is also TCMA's springing board to the world. There is also the human geography and/or social factor (ie the major six professions for TCMAists) that has a hand in shaping the southern system(s) as it is. How could the southern arts be left out if the program is serious about TCMA when TCMA should be holistic in nature?

Like the river system of China, TCMA pretty much migrated from west (relatively speaking) to east and from north to south. It is imcomplete for a river to run to the middle of the land and stop there. It is the same case with the MA curriculum in question. It really sadden me when someone could be wasting their time to get such a degree. But then a diploma is all you need to sell a product. It's a darn good meal ticket in the west.

Sorry about the harsh words and the rant, but as a TCMA practitioner as well as a Chinese, I think we need to be critical of and be honest about the sicken trend of style based curriculum whipped of by ignorant government officials or government appointed "academic elites".

If I offended anyone, I appologize. But good medicine is bitter medicine. So...

Mantis108

[Andy]

I agree with you totally and completely. Once again the mainland government is working to the detriment of its citizens.

It would be nice to know exactly who is in charge of the curriculums within the Chinese university system.

And what are we to make of what's going on at the newly renovated "Shaolin Temples"? How much government influence is being exerted there??? Looking at the "Shaolin" demonstrations, they look like good acrobatics, just another variation on modern wushu.

Is there anyone interested in organizing to preserve the southern arts?

Let me hear from you,

Andy

[MasterKiller]

For a thorough, indepth, sensitive discussion on the Southern Arts, you should check out this thread:

http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=29970

[SPJ]

Yes. There is always politics.

Most of the course curriculum are indeed standardized and composite of the originals.

Composite Tai Ji of Wu, Sun, Chien and mostly Yang style etc.

Composite Ba Gua of Yi's, Cheng (Zhen)'s etc.

Composite Xing Yi of Shan Xi Pai mostly.

Composite Praying Mantis of Liu He, Seven stars and Plum flower Tai Ji etc.

In many ways, it is a reduction form of TCMA.

But for a few years of high school or college, how much can you cram? The students graduate only with basic and broad knowledge. Skill wise depends on the individuals.

I have collected most of the Chinese MA textbooks and course books.

Sorry, I have been a TCMA fan since the 1960's.

Right or wrong. Only time will tell.

In contrast, I grew up in Taiwan. There is only Wushu or Kou Shu club. I had to study with teachers as private tutorings. I did not have any books to read. Only to take notes myself. I may compare my old notes with Chinese textbooks and books. Since most of my teachers passed away in 1990's.

I think to have something is better than to have nothing.

Peace.





:)

[SPJ]

Composite of Southern boxings is called Nan Quan.

I have collected books and vcd's.

Peace.

:)

[Brad]

I think Nan Quan still uses lots of northern basics though.

[Mulong]

Actually, chuantong wushu, (classical martial arts) is a live and well in China, but you need to know where to find it.

Sincerely, checkout all the VCD on beishi wushu (Northern style martial arts); sadly, nanshi (Southern style martial arts), literally immigrate outside of China after 1949, but there are a few pockets of shi (style) left in Guangdong, Fijian, etc.

[Scythefall]

Andy,

it makes sense that government sponsored coaches would be asked to remove Nan Chuan from their curriculum. It's not a competition winning style and if coaches are being paid to produce wushu competitors for the Olympics, the government may feel that it is a waste of money and time to have Nan Chuan in the curriculum at all.

I think you're just getting wind of the changes universities are making relating to the 2008 Olympics. I guarantee Nan Chuan is still taught in kung fu schools there.

[mickey]

Greetings,

You must remember that the Wushu curriculum is nothing more than physical education and sport. The real stuff does exist but without government certification, it is hard to make a living at it-- unless you can kick major booty.

mickey