Laap Sao

[Anarcho]

While doing laap sao against a straight punch recently, I've found that it's most reliable when I do a tan sao first to make contact, before flipping over into a laap sao. Anyway, when I do this I notice that I'm actually applying almost all of the pressure in the grab with my thumb and index finger, not using the other three fingers so much. This got me wondering about the mechanics of the grabbing bit of laap sao. Is it okay to primarily be making contact with the thumb and index finger?

Soup is good food.

[EmptyCup]

It is better and safer to use tan or some other wrist area block first before using lap. However, if you want to use lap as an interception method, block with the inside wrist area and then jerk the opponent's hand with a lap.

And yes, lap when done properly, uses more the thumb and first two fingers of the hand because it's not a pulling motion but rather a jerking motion.

[whippinghand]

Lap sau is okay as the initial technique as long as you are out of the way. Lap as a follow up to a different initial move is okay as well, as long as you, again, move out of the way.

Lap sau with just index and thumb is easy to break out of, which, of course, renders you vulnerable in turn. Lap sau with concentration is every finger is ideal. After all, it is a chin na move.

[CLOUD ONE]

IMO, it depends what kind of straight punch your dealing with.
If the punch is commiting then a lapp sao could be used with footwork.
If the punch is a jab then a tan sao first with
footwork to disrupt his centre, then followed by a lapp sao.
In any case the stance/footwork is the important factor.

[OdderMensch]

i cant go into detail right now but i thought that "lap" meant "to control" and is not a pulling motion as such.

[northstar]

"Laap" means hold, grasp at the hair to hold, pull at. [URL=http://www.chinalanguage.com/cgi-bin/view.cgi?table=ccdict&codepoint=64F8&mode=internal&lang=en&beijing=pinyin&canton=yale&hakka=default&sound=0&fields=jyutpin,english] Laap [/U RL]
Copy and paste the link to see the character with pronounciation wav-file, don't know why it isn't clickable.

[mun hung]

I was taught that "lop sau" is both pulling and pushing. Pulling with the grabbing hand from tan sau and pushing with your fist from bong sau.

And for the first time...I'd have to agree with Whipping Hand about moving out of the way of a good straight punch if you're trying to use lop sau as a counter. I know a few karate guys that will take a step in and knock you out if you're not too careful. The kwun sau must cover properly, and at an angle to be effective against a powerful straight punch.

IMO, the jab is way too quick to use lop sau. Try this out with a boxer, or anyone with a half decent jab. Remember, most of the time the jab is just there to tag and distract you, in order to set you up for something harder.

[panos]

While reading the posts i understood that most of you don;t use your lap like i was taught. i use my lap without grabbing the opponets arm like the usual way. I mean i don't put four fingers on the one side and the thumb from the other. I use all my fingers from one side. I do that because with the other way i could brake my thumb if the opponent was very strong,2) because if you do it right it creates a grab that straitens the opponets arm and makes very hard fo him to use the other arm to hit me and finally 3) because it can be used as a control and not a pull since itdoesn't requires strenght. Does anyone other does it like this? If not what are your thoughts.

[whippinghand]

Whether it's a jab, or not, or any other punch, it doesn't matter. You should be moving out of the way regardless. The technique he throws shouldn't even be a question.

[whippinghand]

The method of lap sau that you were describing is used as a checking hand, which is good, saves energy. When you need more than to "check", you can use it as a locking hand (chin na), which requires you to separate the fingers.

[dzu]

The way I do lap sau is not to attempt a grab at the incoming punch but to bridge first. One good way to bridge is to use biu sau to intercept and then as their punch is retracted, you already have contact and the grab slides into position by following the contour of the forearm down to the wrist. Just grabbing for the wrist is a good way to get hit as you are frantically trying to grasp at air. You can use other bridging methods such as tan sau or fook sau first.

I use both the thumbless grip and the thumb grip. The danger with using the thumb is that it gives a base for them to use locking methods against you. The thumbless grip enables the hand to pop free if a lock is attempted since there is no base. However, the thumb grip does give a little better control.

I personally don't believe that lap sau should only be applied only by moving out of the way first. That is certainly one method of applying it, but there are other methods depending upon the situation. Sometimes it's easier to move the opponent rather than moving myself. Soemtimes it's better to cut off the power close to the source rather than wait for it to build to full and then bridge. The lop sau should disrupt his balance and not just pull his arm down. It doesn't need to be powerful, but just enough to get him off his root. Otherwise it doesn't matter what you do because that second punch is coming and you have no advantage yet.

regards,

Dzu

[whippinghand]

The easiest way to move your opponent is to move yourself. Not necessarily by moving completely out of the way. It could be as simple as a minimal shift, mild hip jerk. Let me rephrase, not "move out of the way", but "re-direct". Bottom line is you shouldn't just stand there.

[EmptyCup]

I agree with Whipping Hand for once :) well...sorta :)

The way you do lap is a good way if checking similar to "gum sau". However, if your purpose is to "lap" as in grab, using the thumb as a grip is must more effective because it creates a more powerful jerk, and the opponent's arm has less chance of slipping off. Many people do it your way that I've seen but their laps aren't really useful because they either always lose the hand, or there's not enough "pull" to get the other guy temprarily disabled. Just my observations since I'm not doubting that there are people out there that can pull it off the all-fingers-on-one-side way :)