Grandmaster Kash of Cloud Forrest Chin Woo

[Brad]

LOL, I got a rather bizarre email from "Grand Master" Kash of the Cloud Forrest Chin Woo:


Mr. Brad, who are you???

Are you somebody? I don’t think so.

A grain of salt eh??? Chin woo eh??? I think you better know who you are talking about before you criticize them.

Mr. Grand Master Kash of chi woo

I last sent him an email about a year ago(maybe more, I can't really remember) and had a brief exchange with his idiot lacky, but I think it's rather odd that he'd decide to harass a nobody like me so long after, lol. Anyway, I sent him an equally childish email back inquiring as to what the hell he's going on about :P

My response:


Grain of salt? What in the world are you going on about, you crazy crazy man?

Sincerely,

Grand Master Sensei Brad of the Holy Order of Shaolin Astral Ninjas

If someone's going to send me idiotic emails out of the blue, I'm going to send equally idiotic emails back :D I figured RD and some of the others that have had negative experiences with him would get a kick out of this :p

BTW, I couldn't figure out if he was trying to threaten me or not :confused:

Does anyone else ever get wierd messages from crazy grandmasters they've never met? :D

[yenhoi]

Ive heard of a guy who says he talks to Farmer Burns..

;)

[norther practitioner]

What was it we weren't supposed to say...

Chao?

[sean_stonehart]

Nah... I don't rank high enough on the salt grains table to warrant an email from an unknown grandmaster, but I do manage a crazy lacky once & a while... :D

[SimonM]

Why you? Did you say something public attacking the credibility of Chin Woo? That just seems kinda strange. :confused:

[Brad]

I think I found out what it was(maybe)... there's been two seperate incidents I've had with them.

The first was in April 2003 when Kash's idiot lacky wrote a nasty letter to me when I asked them(very politely!) about why the Chin Woo organization in Texas would say that they're not a Chin Woo school(I was looking into them because I have a lot of familly in the area of Kash's school).

The second incident(which I'd fogoten about 'till now) was in March this year. I just re-found it on a Southern Fist forum :P That school came up in a thread about Wong Ark Yuey so I just reposted some info I'd gotten from Royal Dragon and listed some of my own concerns about the school that made me suspicious of their credibility. I'm positive now that this is the post Krazy Ka$h was refering too, because I said:

"There's defenitely some serious controversy surounding the Cloud Forest Chin Woo school and I would take what they have to say with a grain of salt. Not sure how much I should say here since this isn't a Cloud Forest Chin Woo thread :P"

LOL, it all makes more sense now! How this idiot would expect me to remember the grain of salt comment 5 MONTHS LATTER is beyond me :p

Anyway, just to flesh this thing out, here were my original 4 criticizms(which I think were perfectly good reasons to be suspicious):

1.They're advertising a $160,000 "Complete Internal System Studies" course which includes phoney titles and mystical qi abilities
2.Offers corespondence courses
3.I emailed the USA Chin Woo about them, and Jimmy Wong said he recieved numerous complaints about them and that they were not real Chin Woo members.
4.They sell "Titles of Honor"... not really ****ing, but pretty funny ;)

Here's the original thread: The Wong Ark Yuey Thread (http://www.forumco.com/hungkuennet/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1792&FORUM_ID=27&CAT_ID=1&Topic_Title=Ark+Y%2E+Wong&Forum_Title=%3Cb%3EOther+Southern+Styles%3C%2Fb%3E )

[rubthebuddha]

chao

[SifuAbel]

"LOL, it all makes more sense now! How this idiot would expect me to remember the grain of salt comment 5 MONTHS LATTER is beyond me."

Because he's a crazy wanker trying to hold on to utter lie that has fueled his business for 30 years.

[David Jamieson]

30 years! :eek:

P.T Barnum WAS right!

[Goldenmane]

I just went and had a look at the Cloud Forest Chin Woo website.


The Cloud Forest Chin Woo Martial Arts Association is a prestigious non-profit organization with true and indisputable documented genealogies of several famous systems dating back as far as 618 A.D. Tang Dynasty, 960 A.D. Sung Dynasty, and 1800 A.D. Ching Dynasty.

Methinkest they doth protest overmuch...

That's the first part of the first paragraph on their front page.

[SimonM]

All that in three years eh? Snicker - people actually buy into this to the tune of $160000? Sad.

[SifuAbel]

And he's also the long lost King of France.

[SifuAbel]

With that kind of sucker money its no wonder he gets so defensive. Can you imagine if those people suddenly wanted their money back? Talk about buyer beware.

[Kristoffer]

I'm seriously pondering to open a made up system school in the states. If I can get one succer to buy a membership card for 160 000 I'm home free

[lkfmdc]

some days I am on good behavior, today is not one of those days :D

My sifu Chan Tai San got about 4 letters from this guy, I read them since he wrote in English and Sifu wanted them translated. He claimed to have been a student of Ark Wong (maybe he was, that I don't know) and to have studied Hop Ga under Ark Wong (which to my knowledge is BS, ie Ark Wong didn't do Hop Ga)

Anyhoo, since Ark Wong "forgot to certify him" he wanted my sifu to give him certification. Now, mind you, he didn't spend a single day training with my sifu, nor was he interested in doing so, he just wanted a piece of paper.....

Judge that any way you want

[SiuHung]

Originally posted by lkfmdc
some days I am on good behavior, today is not one of those days :D

My sifu Chan Tai San got about 4 letters from this guy, I read them since he wrote in English and Sifu wanted them translated. He claimed to have been a student of Ark Wong (maybe he was, that I don't know) and to have studied Hop Ga under Ark Wong (which to my knowledge is BS, ie Ark Wong didn't do Hop Ga)

Anyhoo, since Ark Wong "forgot to certify him" he wanted my sifu to give him certification. Now, mind you, he didn't spend a single day training with my sifu, nor was he interested in doing so, he just wanted a piece of paper.....

Judge that any way you want

This just popped up...

http://www.forumco.com/hungkuennet/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2768&FORUM_ID=27&CAT_ID=1&Topic_Title=To+whom+it+may+concern&Forum_Title=%3Cb%3EOther+Southern+Styles%3C%2Fb%3E

Enjoy!

[lkfmdc]

Former President Ronald Reagan appointed me chief minister of regulating crappy kung fu in 1982, you can just ask him! He's dead? Well, you'll have to take my word for it! :D

[sean_stonehart]

Originally posted by SiuHung
This just popped up...

http://www.forumco.com/hungkuennet/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=2768&FORUM_ID=27&CAT_ID=1&Topic_Title=To+whom+it+may+concern&Forum_Title=%3Cb%3EOther+Southern+Styles%3C%2Fb%3E

Enjoy!

I was about to post that myself... it's gonna get ugly quick I imagine.

[SifuAbel]

But wait, he forgot something...................































..................he is the king of france.

[Royal Dragon]

LOL!!!!!! Here's the Email he just sent ME!!!
September 8, 2004

Mr. Castro, I have read your statements in the “Southern Fist” Online Kung Fu about me (Mr. Kash) and all I can say is that you lied. I never told you I was an L.A. Sheriff Deputy, (it was another State) and You are going to get Mr. Ma seeming into serious trouble, maybe even deportation to China if you and all these other gossips keep slandering me! It will be primarily your fault. He can thank you for all the trouble you tried to cause me.



I have contacted the FBI and reported you and all the other malicious gossips and slanderers who have been lying and exaggerating about me for over three years now on the Internet. This must stop now, forever! If not I will sue these people with a class action law suit, and the authorities will prosecute.

Mr. Kash

[Royal Dragon]

Here is a copy of both my responses. Please forgive my outlandish, and childish behavior here. Sometimes one just cannot help ones self when confronted with such rediculesness:




Just for fun, why don't you come here and "Defend" yourself too?

http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?postid=522365#post522365

I know your skills of comprehension are geared mostly to writing fake credentials for yourself and all, but you might want to take a break from that, and read the thread on the Southern Fist forum again. You might notice I AM NOT PARTAKING IN THAT THREAD!!!! I'm not even a registered member of that forum, and didn't even know about it until YOU E-mailed me. I actually had to call around to some of my Tai Tzu contacts trying to figure out what the HELL your frik'n problem is!!!!

LOL!!!!, I think you need to get back on your Meds. You're Like frik'n Herpes, just when you think its gone, YOU come back!!!

CFCWA <cfcwa@dokungfu.com> wrote:

[SECOND RESPONSE]

Hey Natoli - DONT say Chao!!!



!!CHAO, Chao, Chao, Chao, Chao, CHAO!!! CHAO, Chao, Chao, Chao, Chao, CHAO!!! CHAO, Chao, Chao, Chao, Chao, CHAO!!! CHAO, Chao, Chao, Chao, Chao, CHAO!!! CHAO, Chao, Chao, Chao, Chao, CHAO!!! CHAO, Chao, Chao, Chao, Chao, CHAO!!! CHAO, Chao, Chao, Chao, Chao, CHAO!!! CHAO, Chao, Chao, Chao, Chao, CHAO!!! CHAO, Chao, Chao, Chao, Chao, CHAO!!! CHAO, Chao, Chao, Chao, Chao, CHAO!!! CHAO, Chao, Chao, Chao, Chao, CHAO!!! CHAO, Chao, Chao, Chao, Chao, CHAO!!! CHAO, Chao, Chao, Chao, Chao, CHAO!!! CHAO, Chao, Chao, Chao, Chao, CHAO!!! CHAO, Chao, Chao, Chao, Chao, CHAO!!! CHAO, Chao, Chao, Chao, Chao, CHAO!!!

[Royal Dragon]

CHAO, Chao, Chao, Chao, Chao, CHAO!!! CHAO, Chao, Chao, Chao, Chao, CHAO!!! CHAO, Chao, Chao, Chao, Chao, CHAO!!! CHAO, Chao, Chao, Chao, Chao, CHAO!!! CHAO, Chao, Chao, Chao, Chao, CHAO!!! CHAO, Chao, Chao, Chao, Chao, CHAO!!! CHAO, Chao, Chao, Chao, Chao, CHAO!!! CHAO, Chao, Chao, Chao, Chao, CHAO!!! CHAO, Chao, Chao, Chao, Chao, CHAO!!! CHAO, Chao, Chao, Chao, Chao, CHAO!!! CHAO, Chao, Chao, Chao, Chao, CHAO!!! CHAO, Chao, Chao, Chao, Chao, CHAO!!! CHAO, Chao, Chao, Chao, Chao, CHAO!!! CHAO, Chao, Chao, Chao, Chao, CHAO!!! CHAO, Chao, Chao, Chao, Chao, CHAO!!! CHAO, Chao, Chao, Chao, Chao, CHAO!!! CHAO, Chao, Chao, Chao, Chao, CHAO!!! CHAO, Chao, Chao, Chao, Chao, CHAO!!! CHAO, Chao, Chao, Chao, Chao, CHAO!!! CHAO, Chao, Chao, Chao, Chao, CHAO!!! CHAO, Chao, Chao, Chao, Chao, CHAO!!! CHAO, Chao, Chao, Chao, Chao, CHAO!!! CHAO, Chao, Chao, Chao, Chao, CHAO!!! CHAO, Chao, Chao, Chao, Chao, CHAO!!! CHAO, Chao, Chao, Chao, Chao, CHAO!!! CHAO, Chao, Chao, Chao, Chao, CHAO!!! CHAO, Chao, Chao, Chao, Chao, CHAO!!! CHAO, Chao, Chao, Chao, Chao, CHAO!!! CHAO, Chao, Chao, Chao, Chao, CHAO!!! CHAO, Chao, Chao, Chao, Chao, CHAO!!! CHAO, Chao, Chao, Chao, Chao, CHAO!!! CHAO, Chao, Chao, Chao, Chao, CHAO!!!

[lkfmdc]

Mr Kash is not playing with a full deck, he may be just playing with the queens and the jokers......:eek:

[Royal Dragon]

LOL~!~~~!!!!!!!!










































Chao!!!!

[Royal Dragon]

Here is the post for the Southern Fist forum linked to above, just for ****s and Giggles. I would love to see everyone just start calling him at his school, and asking him questions about his credentials!!! (After all, he listed his phone number at the bottom of his post!!!!)



September 7, 2004

In regards to David Kash, Ph.D. Grandmaster, 10th degree, the reason he was selected to represent the Chinese Government Martial Arts Association as an Advisor and certified by the Ministry of the Interior Government and certified by former President Clinton and former President Bush for outstanding achievements in Chinese Martial Arts and Medicine was due to the training he received from his teachers Ark Y. Wong, S.K. Lew and J. Leoning

This is especially due to his teachers, Grand Masters, Ark Y. Wong, S.K. Lew, J. Leoning, and Y.F. Chao. Without these teachers and his monastic background of 11 years, he would not have been able to accomplish the 37 years of training and teaching of students internationally as well as other outstanding achievements.

Kash and Wong belonged to the same Medical Association in China (Kash was a graduate, Wong was an advisor) Kash’s student got a gold medal in the 1st World Martial Arts Exposition to Republic of China in 1975. Kash is a great teacher, because his teachers, were great teachers as well. Kash also has his appointments, Degree and Charter from Master Wong, which very few have to this day. This is a very exclusive Association, not just an ordinary School membership.

Kash and Wong were at the 1984 Olympic Delegate Committee (closing ceremony), where Kash awarded medals to the athletes from China from the Association Kash and Wong founded! Kash has studied from Wong and other masters since 1967!

Kash was awarded the highest title of Grand Master and appointed with the Military title of Marshall. This is due to the recommendation of Ark Wong, and other Masters Internationally by the Chinese Association’s in China. Kash has been awarded with Gold Medals for his success of these great accomplishments.

Kash could not have achieved all this, without the guidance of his esteemed teachers. To date, Kash has respected students who are Masters, with their own students’ world wide.

Kash was appointed as assistant instructor for Ark Wong’s school in 1975. Many of Kash’s students’ tested for their Black Belt right in the front of Master Wong (Mr. Bakalar in 1975, as well as others).

For any further information regarding Mr. David Kash, he may be contacted 1055 Silas Creek Parkway, Winston-Salem, NC 27127 or call (336) 774-1943

[SifuAbel]

Originally posted by Royal Dragon
LOL!!!!!! Here's the Email he just sent ME!!!
September 8, 2004



I have contacted the FBI and reported you and all the other malicious gossips and slanderers who have been lying and exaggerating about me for over three years now on the Internet. This must stop now, forever! If not I will sue these people with a class action law suit, and the authorities will prosecute.



Firstly, he doesn't quailfy as a member of a "class". He is not a "type". He is a single person. Usually, class actions are wrought by large groups. BS #1

Secondly, the FBI has bigger fish to fry, AND his case(or total lack of) isn't Federal. BS#2 No one is extoring, rackettering, kidnapping, or commiting any other federal crime against him. So, I think he pulled the wrong agency out of his ass.

No matter how he tries, he can't make a Federal Case out of this. It is not a federal offense to question ones credentials. The burden of proof is on the plaintiff.

Also it isn't a federal offense to mistake one for an LA sheriff instead of a NC sheriff or whatever state.

Try that legal crap with me, mr. carter.

[norther practitioner]

All I have to say is classic.

[SifuAbel]

LOL!

[Royal Dragon]

Chao!!!

[SifuAbel]

Did you say "ciao"?

[SifuAbel]

Originally posted by lkfmdc
Mr Kash is not playing with a full deck, he may be just playing with the queens and the jokers......:eek:



Doh!

[Royal Dragon]

No, it's Chao, as in Kash's Deceased teacher, Chao Yuh Feng. Last time this eruppted here he warned me NOT to say "Chao, or he would sue me as it was his place as Chao, Yuh Feng's inheritor.

It's all in a thread buried somewhere here in KFM land. I think he said it to me in an E-mail, and I posted it for laughs.


CHAO!!!!! Look David, I'm saying CHAO!!!!!!!

[Brad]

LOL!!!!!! Here's the Email he just sent ME!!!
September 8, 2004

Mr. Castro, I have read your statements in the “Southern Fist” Online Kung Fu about me (Mr. Kash) and all I can say is that you lied. I never told you I was an L.A. Sheriff Deputy, (it was another State) and You are going to get Mr. Ma seeming into serious trouble, maybe even deportation to China if you and all these other gossips keep slandering me! It will be primarily your fault. He can thank you for all the trouble you tried to cause me.



I have contacted the FBI and reported you and all the other malicious gossips and slanderers who have been lying and exaggerating about me for over three years now on the Internet. This must stop now, forever! If not I will sue these people with a class action law suit, and the authorities will prosecute.

Mr. Kash

He sent me the exact same email :p Hey, RD, does he think we're the same person or something? And who's Mr. Castro, and why does he think we're him??? Bizzare...

[David Jamieson]

I don't know about stateside, but up here in Canada it is illegal to misrepresent yourself credential wise or otherwise. It's called "personation".

And bogus credentials are frowned upon. People who throw those around are generally laughed at outright.

I'm thinking, that may be true of the states too? yes?

[MonkeySlap Too]

Yes, but it is hard to get someone to give a sh!t about martial arts... JCK of CMD fame was put out on his petard for tax reasons, not fraud. (Is petard a word or just the captain of the Enterprise?)

Guys like Kash are a dime-a-dozen over here. But I think that is true everywhere.

RD is a nut (which i say in the best way possible), but he's got a nose for the real nut jobs. We should all be making donations so he can spend all day messing with pukes like OYD. It's a noble task, I say.

[Brad]

Martial arts frauds pretty much allways get away with it unless they do something like JCK did(tax fraud... best way to get the Feds ****ed off at ya, is to not pay your dues :D), or if they commit some sort of sex crime(though some get away with that too).

As for Kash... I seem to remember one of his students saying CFCW was run as a non-profit org.? If that's the case, if one were interested in bringing him down, they should do some checking up on that... lots of rules and regs for running a non-profit group, and Kash doesn't seem bright enough to handle that kind of thing :p

[Royal Dragon]

MS,
Thanks for the complements...............I think :p

As for Kash, personally I really don't care too much anymore. I've got a letter to inside Kung Fu I'm working on, becasue he is making trouble for everyone. But basically, I just live my life right now. I never have time to train anymore, maybe like once a week if I'm lucky. I need to find someway to work that back in my life first, before chasing frauds.

[Serpent]

Originally posted by MonkeySlap Too
RD is a nut (which i say in the best way possible), but he's got a nose for the real nut jobs.
LOL. Takes one to know one, huh?

[MonkeySlap Too]

Ah, it's easy to pick on RD cause he's so earnest. But he's also honest (he never claims to be a 'super man', just trying do what he is doing), and will break into a building to help someone he doesn't even really know.

And he HATES those OYD F*U*C*K*E*R*S.

[Serpent]

A nut with impeccable morals? I'd rather a million of him than one supposedly sane person with the morals of most these days.

[rubthebuddha]

actually, federal also implies any crime that crosses state lines. if you kidnap someone in idaho, it's the sherriffs and polizia. if you cross the state line into montaner, the feds can get involved.

let's work on a few other definitions:

slander can only be verbal. LIBEL is for written/publicized, even digitally. even radio is considered libel, as the topics are "supposed" to follow some sort of script.

public character:
kash is what one would legally call a public character. he advertises himself constantly, putting more titles and initials after his name than anyone i've seen at my employer (i work at a university, mind you), he touts himself constantly on the web, he puts his information out on his own website, etc. his willingness to be public with just how wonderful and special he is makes him a legally defined public character. this can be broken down further into limited-purpose or all-purpose public character, but that does not matter in this case, considering the abundance of "look at me" information presented.

now, the burden of proof for ANY libel lawsuit for such a character obviously falls on the plaintiff, as they must prove what is defined by the supreme court as "actual malice." this means that anyone who presents information must either know the information is false or recklessly disregard the truth.

i could go further, but here's a link to a summary of the chapter my college press law class' text:

http://highered.mcgraw-hill.com/sites/0072492171/student_view0/chapter5/chapter_overview.html

[Serpent]

There you go, RD, that's all you need. Go git 'im, boy!

;)

[Royal Dragon]

and will break into a building to help someone he doesn't even really know.

Reply]
Actually, Theresa did that. AND we were promised the building way ahead of time. Kurt basically Screwed me on that one. Alot of BS was going on behind the scenes at that gym around that time. They were making the shift form hard core olympic bound to main streem "Mc gym" Not to long after that the head coach quit. My daughter had been training her since she was the age of 3. We quit on the spot and followed her to the new gym.

The owner of the gym (Todd Gardner) is a realatively cool guy, and one of the TOP coaches in the country. He and my daughters coach (an OLD SCHOOL Romainian woman) were a very good team, and together they produced the greatest gymnasts region 5 has ever seen, consistantly. One of them, a freind of my daughter, missed making the olympic team by just a few small places this year.

Anyway, that gym was "Family" territory to me. I expected promises to be honored. What I found out later was they decided (read KURT decided) it was a liablity issue, and cancelled on me the night before. He didn't even call me untill were were already there in the middle of it. When we went in, I was still fully believing we had free run of the place and Kurt just forgot to meet me with the key.

Kurt burned ALOT of bridges that weekend, not just me.

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by MonkeySlap Too

RD is a nut (which i say in the best way possible), but he's got a nose for the real nut jobs.

Yeah, it's like the guy has some type of Kung Fu Gay-dar.

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by MonkeySlap Too
...and will break into a building to help someone he doesn't even really know.


lol

[MonkeySlap Too]

You know Rd, you would sounded way cooler if you didn't reveal the 'secret' behind my story... oh well, I tried.. best of intentions, but I can see where you wouldn't want to be seen as the breaking and entering type... :D

[Royal Dragon]

but I can see where you wouldn't want to be seen as the breaking and entering type

Reply]
Yeah, especially since Theresa is the one who actually did it!!!


I'm not dateing any more former Outlaw Biker Chicks again!!!!

[SifuAbel]

Oh admit it!! You're into leather and spikes.

[MasterKiller]

Does Grandmaster Kash happen to cohort with a group known as The Furious Five, by chance?

[Oso]

.........................................

[Royal Dragon]

I'm not sure. He's got his own, isolated little Empire going, so I doubt it.

[MasterKiller]

You sure? (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0000033TM/qid=1094751498/sr=8-5/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i5_xgl15/102-1585408-8166556?v=glance&s=music&n=507846)

[SifuAbel]

Interesting note. Posts and threads concerning this subject are quietly disappearing on southernfist forum. I guess the FBI is doing its job. :rolleyes:

[Royal Dragon]

I'm suprised he hasn't responded to my outlandish E-mails yet.

[Shaolinlueb]

so whats the link to this guys website? :o