The MRI results are in. . . .

[Judge Pen]

Complete ACL tear
Partial tear of the MCL
Small tear involving the medial meniscus.

Looks like knee surgery for me. :mad:

[David Jamieson]

hopefully it's not too too invasive. They will bind the ligaments together again and you'll have to take it easy for the healing period.

good luck

[Meat Shake]

Herbs help heal!
:eek:
:D

(especially the oh so delicious smokeables)

[Goldenmane]

Ouch mate.

Just.. ouch.

Luck with the surgery.

[Radhnoti]

VERY sorry to hear that JP. Hope all goes well. When do they plan the surgery or has it gotten that far? Keep us updated.

[rubthebuddha]

****it, jaypee. sorry to hear. :(

[Liokault]

Sounds almost the same as my injury at christmas.

I decided to go with out the op after hearing and reading about some horror storys.

Its almost perfect now, apart from the fact that i can not quite bend my knee all the way back.

[Cody]

Sorry to hear. Results from surgery can be good. Lots of physical therapy.
Lengthy healing process, but the techniques are better than in years of yore.

peace,
Cody

[SevenStar]

sorry to hear that, man. Hopefully you have a full and speedy recovery.

[Chang Style Novice]

I'm no doctor, but I think we'll have to amputate.

Hey, Peg-legs are cool!

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by Chang Style Novice
I'm no doctor, but I think we'll have to amputate.

Hey, Peg-legs are cool!

My iron-shin training would reach a whole new level!

Bah, I'll discuss it with the doctor, but I'm opting for surgery if it will stabilize my knee and let me get back to more serious training.

[rubthebuddha]

jaypee -- refresh our memories on what you did to funk your knee ... unless the memories are too painful. ;)

[Judge Pen]

Demonstration for the Asian Cultural Arts Festival in Atlanta. I was doing a kwan dao form and my foot slid on the grass while I was coming gown on my right leg. It straightend and buckled on me. I didn't think it was that bad at first until it buckled again.

The funny thing is that I can walk, jog, hold a horse stance, etc. but I can't kick or shift weight from one leg to another. It will buckle on me every time.

[rubthebuddha]

:(

[Vash]

**** dude, that suxors balls.

Get well soon.

[bamboo_ leaf]

take a break and rest up. you didnt mention what your training was for or where it was leading to.

i hope it leads to a healthy life and is something that you chose with a clear mind and open heart. ;)

[norther practitioner]

Knee injuries suck. Sorry to here, take it easy getting back into it.

[blooming lotus]

Good luck with your recovery.

Listen, I have a move( or few) that I've been working to the same end re-opponent. How long healing time did they tell you to expect??

[MonkeySlap Too]

Whatever you do, do not push it. I have a buddy who is a case study for repeat injuries because he would always push it and start fighting before he was healed.

[Serpent]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
Good luck with your recovery.

Listen, I have a move( or few) that I've been working to the same end re-opponent. How long healing time did they tell you to expect??
What are you asking here? Are you saying that you are working on moves to cause this injury? Once again, you confuse me!

[BM2]

JP,
That really suks. Big time
Oh, by the way, I would have told it occured when I fell out the tree when I tried the Karma Sutra positon #1149. You could have said the first 1000 or so were easier. Of course Vash would really envy you then.

[Vash]

Bah. I got to #1150. Now I just need a partner.

[Judge Pen]

I'm still walking through some tai chi and Hsing I (slowly). I'm also doing some isometric upper body excercises, iron body training, and playing with the basic chain whip spins. I can do all of this with no problem, so this will keep me busy for a while. I plan to be doing some type of martial art until I fall over dead, so I'm in no hurry to push this and not heal properly.

BTW Vash, nice sig.

[Vash]

Jus' stay healthy. Good luck in your recovery.

Thanks, btw. That guy you quoted, he sure is sexy. ;) :o :eek:

[blooming lotus]

Serpent : asking for crucia damage, what is the standard recovery time??

[Becca]

BL- The term "standard healling time" is a misnomer, there is no such thing. I have a friend with identical injuries to JP's from last march who was running on it 8 weeks after sergery. I have also know people who have had to stay off it for 5-6 months.

Good luck on your heeling , Jugde!:)

[Serpent]

Yeah, what Becca said. (Not sure why you asked me specifically). The trouble with any kind of injury like that is that there are such varying degrees of tissue trauma, with matching degrees of recovery time. It's also relevant to consider the person's age (younger folks heal quicker), their state of health and fitness generally, etc. There's no standard time.

JP - be really nice to your knee and make sure it's healed up properly before you risk it again. You might get some good results speeding up the healing if you can find a good acupuncturist. In the meantime, I bet your hand skills improve considerably over the coming weeks. ;)

[blooming lotus]

fair calls all round and reiterating well wishing.

[BentMonk]

JP - That sux my friend. The offer to walk like me is still open. Chicks think it's sexy. I hope you can still come and watch me get my azz kicked the 18th. Hit me on an email or a pm and we'll catch up. Keep the good thoughts man...my prayers are with you.

P

[Judge Pen]

Thanks BM. I sent you a PM on your forum.

I do need to find a good acupuncturist. Anyone know of one in Knoxville Tennessee? I see some ads occasionally, but I have no frame of reference to know a good AP from a bad one.

[Serpent]

I wish I could help you there, but all I know about Knoxville, Tennessee is..... well, is that you come from there. That's the sum total of my knowledge. I'm guessing it's close to the Jack Daniels distillery too, right?

The best way to track down a good acupuncturist is to ask within the local Chinese community. It won't be the clinic with all the big signs and fancy decor. You have a good Chinese friend*? Ask them to ask around as if it was for a member of their family and when they get a good recommendation, pass it on to you. Good luck, mate.

















* I know you do Shaolin-Do, but you must know someone Chinese, right? :p

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by BentMonk
JP - That sux my friend. The offer to walk like me is still open. Chicks think it's sexy. I hope you can still come and watch me get my azz kicked the 18th. Hit me on an email or a pm and we'll catch up. Keep the good thoughts man...my prayers are with you.

P

Sorry temporary non -walking dude ( nb:- pc terminology ;) :rolleyes: :D ) lol....


Bent Monk.....


SExy??!! can't confirm, ( being bonafide chicky oneself) .....but we could dance a little and ... would ya let me get back to you on it?? :p

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by Serpent
I wish I could help you there, but all I know about Knoxville, Tennessee is..... well, is that you come from there. That's the sum total of my knowledge. I'm guessing it's close to the Jack Daniels distillery too, right?

The best way to track down a good acupuncturist is to ask within the local Chinese community. It won't be the clinic with all the big signs and fancy decor. You have a good Chinese friend*? Ask them to ask around as if it was for a member of their family and when they get a good recommendation, pass it on to you. Good luck, mate.

* I know you do Shaolin-Do, but you must know someone Chinese, right? :p

Well. . . there's not a Chinese community to speak of in Knoxville. My ex-fiancee was Chinese, but she's not even living in Knoxville anymore. I'll check around for a good recommendation, but does anyone have anything that they check for in a good AP? Is there an official license or do they have educational requirements?

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by Judge Pen
Well. . . there's not a Chinese community to speak of in Knoxville. My ex-fiancee was Chinese, but she's not even living in Knoxville anymore. I'll check around for a good recommendation, but does anyone have anything that they check for in a good AP? Is there an official license or do they have educational requirements? Some MDs and chiropractors perform acupucture. My insurance covers acupuncture from an MD, but not from a licensed acupuncturist or a chiropractor.

[hungsingclf]

hi judge, contact me via email. i can help you out.take care.

chad

[Judge Pen]

Thanks Chad! I just sent you an e-mail.

MK, I checked my crappy plan. They will only cover the "alternative" care if it is blessed by an MD AND the insurance company. Ergo, I'm probably out of pocket on this treatment.

[pvwingchun]

Judge Pen

Know the feeling. About 3 years ago I hurt mine. After about a year it seemed to be better. I still continued to wear a wrap due to the unstability. Almost one year ago now I reinjured it and this time got the medical diagnosis, torn ACL and 2 torn meniscus. I continued to train in Wing Chun and Tai Chi. Therapy was no help I continued to have the instability that you mentioned although the strength of the leg was surprising to the PT and MA. Most activities were no problem but I had that instability anytime all the weight was on that leg.

I opted for surgery (big step I don't like to get anywhere near a doctor) one week before Christmas. The therapists were amazed that I could do what I could do and said the strength in the leg was due to martial arts and the only thing keeping me as stable as it was. Their input helped me to choose surgery. It has been a long slow process but it was well worth it. There were days I have wished I had never had it done early on but all in all it is much better now. I am probably at about 85 to 90 % but I have no issues with no instablility and don't worry about stepping off a curb wrong and having it go out.

[Judge Pen]

That's great to hear. I hope I'm 85% to 90% in a year. I, like you, avoid doctors at all costs, but this is a different situation. And I have no doubt that I can still move the way that I do is because of my MA training.

[pvwingchun]

The big thing is don't get discouraged. It seemed for me like I would go weeks or even a month or two without any improvement then all of the sudden it would just improve seemingly overnite. Just remember don't overdo it and follow all orders to the letter and your healing should be rapid.

[Judge Pen]

Yeah, Its going to be an exercise in patience. How long before you were doing Tai Chi? That is the only thing that's keeping me sane right now.

[pvwingchun]

I think it was about 10 weeks but 12 for sure. Don't really remember. I was on crutches with no weight bearing on the leg for 6 weeks. Then it was a single crutch for about a week or two then it was a cane for a few few days then it took me a few weeks to get just walking "normal" again. I was running on the treadmill for sure at 12 weeks. Although I was discouraged from doing Tai Chi by the doc the therapist recommended it so that is the one thing I did (the doc didn't understand Tai Chi), even then I was allowed to teach Wing Chun. I will tell you this 4 days post surgery I was in PT doing passive range of motion. Mine was much worse than expected the tears to the meniscus were found while in surgery.

Remember there are many ways to do Tai Chi.

[ShaolinTiger00]

I tore my lateral meniscus in a leglock. After surgery I was working out again in less than 3 weeks.

PT was brutal and I'm still having pain 9 weeks later, but that's too be expected working out hard 6x a week. your milage may vary.

Pt was the biggest factory in my very quick recovery imho. without it. I'd have been down alot longer.

[blooming lotus]

JUDGE


I realise that treatment for injury can become expensive, but vs: time off work and lost wage, it's probably much to muchness. It's a hazard of being amongst the elite and that's why we are.

cheers and minimal hardship to you ;) :)

[Judge Pen]

Thank for the well wishes BL.

Fortunately, I'm on salary and can do much of my job with my leg propped up so I'm hoping to not miss too much time from work.

[blooming lotus]

;) :) :cool:

[BM2]

Ala Perry Mason?
HA! Now its my turn to type something that these twenty somethings don't know what it is. Still trying to figure out Vash's presidential choices.
Seems as everyone else understands.
I used to be really good at the arcade games, pong etc.., and my eight year old laughs at me on PS2. Get my controlls screwed up and such. Today I sat down in one of the game chairs and fell out just like my dad did to the bean bag chair in the '70s. Luckly no one saw me. I was in there trying to practice up on PS2. Yeah I am going to do some trash talking this weekend :D If I have to, I am planning on cheating
:rolleyes:

[Yum Cha]

Hey JP,
When I did my Achillies many years back, a number of chinese mates told me that acupuncture can "make the juice flow" that makes ligaments or "soft bones" grow back together. Including a soccer player friend who did his knee, was treated only with acupuncture, and regained 100% fitness. Take it for what you will, I still opted for the operation....

One thing that did make a huge difference in healing was herbal treatments: poltices and soaking baths after the stitches were removed. I had full mobility back in less than 30 days, which was a major surprise for my surgeon. I never had to even attend any physio.

For what its worth, the herbal treatments have always worked for me, on injuries large or small.

[BM2]

JP,
When will it be performed and how confident of the extent of your recovery are they? This has got to be a lot on your mind right now.
Yum Cha,
What type of herbs are you talking about? I take it that you live down under.

[Judge Pen]

I've scheduled the ACL reconstruction for November 5th. They may have to repair some cartilage also, but they won't know until they get in there and look around.

The doctor felt fairly confident that I can get back to my pre-accident level of activity 4 to 6 months after surgery, but it could take a while to get my leg conditioning back up to what it was before. He was fine with me doing tai chi before surgery and even after when I can bear weight on my knee.

I have some good jow and a methanol based Chinese medicine that worked miracles when I tore my hamstring a few years back. (The same medicine hungsingclf used on me that night Sean) so I'll be using that when the stitches heal. I also have some chinese herbs that you take internally for joints that should help.

Finally, I may use hungsingclf's referral for an acupuncturist in ATL once I can drive down there.

[sean_stonehart]

Cool beans JP... let me know if/when you start coming for AC treatments. You can crash at my place.

When I had my knee done back in 91... my surgeon was a ****oryu black belt. He gave me a PT schedule to help build the knee back a little different than most because of the MA. It was about 9 months & I was fully good to go. I was in the dojang 6 weeks after it happened stretching & doing basic movements. Every so often I'd get cramping, locking/givingway, etc... but it subsided over time & now every once in a great while or literally if the weather changes, it'll tweak me pretty good.

Plus I gotta say now that I'm playing CLF, my knees rarely hurt at all... :eek:

[blooming lotus]

lol @ getting old being cool through little more than yesterdays' hero Imo and support the vets society !!!


joining you in 2 mos or so ;) :) :p