Help a Newb

[Benjamin1981]

Hello everyone...

I discovered Kung Fu from a guy at work who studied Shaolin Kung Fu from a hardcore dojo in downtown Atlanta somewhere. This guy handed me a documentary on Shaolin Kung Fu and I was immediately captivated by hard qi gong and the seamlessness of the monks' movements.

Since then, I was delving into Japanese culture and studying about the samurai and toying with the idea of taking karate. I read about Mas Oyama and was really getting into the whole thing until the guy from work told me about how "karate sux" etc. I'm sure every style has its ups and downs, but I got into looking around the area and found two places of interest. The first was a Yoshukai place, the second was Francis Fong's martial arts academy (they have many styles there but I am interested in Wing Chun.) Anyhow I watched a class at Sifu Fong's school and have alreeady made up my mind without even going to the other place...

Anyhow, this place charges 125 a month and I can't really afford it. This guy is incredible though, and a student of Jiu Wan. I want to study Kung Fu for the rest of my life and I need to prepare for the class in the meantime before I can afford to go.

What skills can I develop on my own without developing bad habits? What are some good resources? Right now I have a steel box and some yard gravel in a pot that I use to condition my hands with. I used to do body hardening with a partner but he has since ****ed out on me. I've got a bunch of huge trees in the back I am going to use in place of my old partner.

As far as stretching goes, my buddy from work loaned me a book by bruce lee that has some waist and leg stretches in it, but I think I need something more elaborate.

I am really passionate about this and am willing to go the full mile. I don't care how "outrageous" the training is such as hard qi gong or whatever else, but I'm willing to do what it takes to practicing this art. Whatever advice you could give me would be much appreciated.

Thanks!

-Benjamin

[Kristoffer]

Always go for quality. Hey, if this really is something you want to do the rest of your life then you should seek out the best you can.

[sean_stonehart]

www.atlantamartialarts.com

[Benjamin1981]

I'm not looking for a school, I've already found one.
My question to this forum is, what specifically can I do from home to prepare for Wing Chun in the meantime before I can afford going. That is, without developing bad habits...

[Judge Pen]

Don't try to teach yourself hard qi-gong. You will end up hurting yourself.

If you want to prepare yourself physically, just work out and condition. There's hundreds of routines, but work on endurance, strength (I prefer body weight excercises, but whatever floats your boat), flexibility, etc. Let your teacher teach you the ins and outs of the style once you can afford his classes. The better shape you in when you start, the better you will adapt to the martial training.

[WanderingMonk]

Originally posted by Benjamin1981
I'm not looking for a school, I've already found one.
My question to this forum is, what specifically can I do from home to prepare for Wing Chun in the meantime before I can afford going. That is, without developing bad habits...

In general,

-improve your cardio.

run, jump ropes

-improve your flexibility

stretch daily, make your muscle limber and long.

-improve your strength

train total body power by doing squats, dead-lifts,
stretch before and after.

-reflex
make a list of small physical action (e.g.,
1. right jab
2. left jab
3 left front kick
4. right front kick
5. sprawl

then, have a friend randomly call out the number, then you must carry out the task as fast as possible.


In particular to WC
- do fist push-up. it will strengthen your wrist.

- footwork
triangle stepings drills.

go to the wing chun forum on this board, you will find people who can give you more wc specific supplment.

[Fu-Pow]

-Interval training
-Circuit training

[Nick Forrer]

In terms of wing chun

The first thing you will or should learn is Siu Lin Tau (SLT)

This is the first form of wing chun and contains all the basic hand actions and strikes

The best thing to do would be to learn the sequence from a video - that way when you go to class the teacher can correct what you already know rather than teach you from scratch

Once you have learnt SLT try and practice it everyday

when you do it

- do it slowly
- with control
- breath naturally
- try and think about what you are doing - feel the movements
- make sure you have the correct stance/posture i.e. make sure you have: feet inverted, pelvis pushed up and out, back straight, head up, shoulders square, shoulders level. Do not deviate from this when performing SLT. Most common mistakes - head not level (because looking down), shoulders not square (because trying to bring the elbow into the centre of body naturally brings the shoulder forward- resist this tendency!)

Forget esoteric (bogus?) disciplines like qigong, iron palm, dim mak etc. - Good Wing chun does not require them- when you understand it you will realise it is all elementary physics, geometry and bio mechanics anyway.



Good luck..............

[neit]

although you may have already found a school, why not try a free class at some other schools in your city? since you cannot afford to start your classes yet anyways. could'nt hurt, could it?

[Mr Punch]

Nick's got some pretty good advice there. Though there are some who say that chi kung and hard conditioning exercises have a place in wc, generally you'll find that it's not necessary to compliment your wc this way.

Of course, if you have super-duper hardened iron palms, it can't hurt your palm strikes can it?! Well no, but training it the wrong way (with no supervision from any teachers, not just vids cos they're no substitute, esp in the basic levels) could cause you some damage and end up weakening your wrists.

Most wing chun says that you get the limb conditioning from hands on training, so it may be a waste of time to do repetitive hardening drills even in the absence of a school just yet.

As for soft chi kung, or more (possibly) esoteric internal aspects, though some schools of wc have a nod towards it, as Nick says, concentrating on natural breathing is generally more important for slt. Remember the first part of slt should be slow slow slow at first. If you want more internal stuff, wc is maybe not for you.

Learning slt from a video is impossible, but as Nick says have a go anyway! His warning points are good though most wcers I've met say tilt your pelvis at a little less than 45 to the ground... it sounds like nitpicking but some people just find it easier to understand than 'push your pelvis out and up': it's basically the same idea.

Another point of caution (don't think Nick has it on his list - apologies if he does) is don't lean back. I've seen a lot of wcers (even advanced ones) doing this and it's bad for wc dynamics, not to mention general stability.

When practising the basic stance in slt, if it's hurting your knee joints, you're doing it wrong. if it's hurting your thigh muscles you're doing it right! (And do it again you lazy *******!!! :D ;) ).

Not sure I agree with Wandering Monk on the fist pushups. Can't see it hurting but wouldn't have said it was especially necessary for wc.

Cardio on the other hand, is never a bad idea.

Neither is stretching a bad idea, but wc does not require acrobatics, there are rarely any kicks above the nuts for example, and maybe as Brucey-baby said hip and waist flexibility is vitally important to any martial art, the often relatively static looking wing chun included. Hip, ab and waist strengthening and flexibility exercises are some of the most important things you can invest your time in. If you're gonna stretch you may wanna check out the training forum one down from this one: there's a useful thread on stretching there, but in a nutshell it says:

Don't go for big stretches while cold (before a workout), instead train your normal range of movement and work up to a little outside your normal range of movement gently and relaxedly, and save the big stretches til after the training to cool down while your muscles are still warm enough to do this without injury.

Don't agree about 'triangular stepping drills' either. Stepping in wc is pretty simple but most schools don't teach it for a while (they teach slt and other related rooting concepts first) and it's not so easy without a teacher to correct you/good sparring partners to put you on your ass.

Peace.

Train well.
Train hard.
Train sensibly.

Oh, and don't be afraid of looking around/trying other things once in a while... AND some karate sucks, so does some kungfu... in fact a lot of both of them do... don't judge it till you've tried it!

[norther practitioner]

I just have one thing to say about all this... and well a lot of the things said around hurrr...

Don't put yourself in the box before you start. It'll make thinking a bit outside it a lot harder...

[Benjamin1981]

Thanks for all the advice!

I have a strong interest in doing hard conditioning in addition to learning the forms effectively. I think that even if WC is effective without hard conditioning, it will be even moreso with it regardless of neccessity.

I think I will continue to do my own training at home as even though I've been injured, I've noticed a huge difference in power. One thing I've learned is that you must always consider the advice of others, especially as a novice - which is what I am.

About the knuckle pushups in question, I think I will start doing those as my wrists are very weak. I'm scared to hit the heavy bag hard cause my wrists will buckle. I also injured my right tendin in Iraq a year ago and it acts up when I use it. I think conditioning my wrists will protect it a bit.

But again, I value everyone's knowledge and weigh it heavily.
Thanks!

-----------------------------------

But now I have a new question to pose to you,

I am 23 and am just now starting in this path. What can I do to offset my disadvantage versus those who have been studying since childhood? I'm not asking in terms of competition, but in terms of achieving some eventual tier of proficiency and playng a vital role in the passing down of knowledge to future people like myself. I want to give this my every effort for the rest of my life, but I feel at a serious disadvantage.

I watched one video of Master Hu doing the Monkey staff routine at the age of 18 and was completely stunned. This was five years younger than I am now. I am not discouraged, but I am inquiring as to what I can do or if its even possible to achieve something like this at a late age.

Thanks again, :cool:

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by Benjamin1981
What can I do to offset my disadvantage versus those who have been studying since childhood? First, be realistic about why you are training. Do you want to learn to fight? Just looking for some Cool way to exercise? A little bit of both? There's nothing wrong with any of those approaches, but depending on your goals, your training will need some modification. Don't do forms all day long if you want to be a great fighter...and you don't need to spend hours on conditioning if you just want to lose a few pounds. If you really want to excel at forms, you will have to sacrifice a lot of sparring time (unless you have a ton of free time).

Second, be realistic about what you are capable of. I started at 24 and compensated for lack of natural talent with extra work and training time. I'm generally pleased with where I am now (actually, where I was last year because my training has slacked a bit lately) because I have come to terms with what my body is capable of and what it will probably never do.

[Benjamin1981]

My goal is to be the greatest fighter that I can possible be. Not to compete, but for myself. Also, I want to have enough knowledge to be able to effectively pass it down one day in the future. So, more or less, I'd like to be an instructor for my own place some day, in addition to being someone who can really handle themself - afterall, what's the point in learning a martial art if its not practical?

[red5angel]

To follow up with NP's advice, do't bother visiting the wing chun forums on the internet, including the one on this forum. All you'll get is grief and arguments abotu lineage.

Also, if you're going to learn wingchun it's extremely important that you focus on who is teaching you and who they learned from and so on. To be a good wing chun student all you really need to know is who passed on your art.

Oh yeah, you also need to know that chi sau is all you'll ever need to know how to fight ;)

[FngSaiYuk]

Originally posted by Benjamin1981
What can I do to offset my disadvantage versus those who have been studying since childhood?


The advantages of those studying since childhood normally amount to the time and effort already invested, as well as the body development. Some things that are separate from raw training are your genetics and your own intuitive ability to absorb, corrolate and apply material.

Instead of thinking about what OTHERS have already done, focus on your available resources now and in the future that you will dedicate to your study and training. Keeping an open mind, strong, perservering will and sharp focus on absorbing material and practicing/training are key to yielding maximal results.

It's all time and effort, and there are relatively few people who have continually trained with great focus and effort since childhood. You are also still rather young and have PLENTY of years ahead of you to pursue whatever you feel for.

Just my $0.02