Forearm conditioning...

[Killingthetiger]

Does anyone know the best way to get the bruises out as quickly as possible and also... I'm kinda ticked... Ive been doing forearm conditioning for about 3 years now and i still get bruised up. Is that normal? How can do i know if i am progressing?

[Serpent]

Massage and good quality dit da jow. How do you know if you're progressing? Can you strike things harder with your forearms without pain? Can you cause damage with blocks?

What sort of conditioning have you been doing?

[WinterPalm]

You should build up progressively and don't go all out at first. A quality dit da jow and massage is imperative. If you feel a goose egg or bump, immediately press a finger into the center, with some dit da jow, and force it down slowly and then repeat till it goes down. You should be using dit da jow from the get go and continue in this fashion. This is the advice my Sifu gives me and it works fine.:)

[IronMonkey]

Well like these guys said, you mostly need Dit Da Jow to help you. Hmm.. I need to start condition my arms too, heh.

[FngSaiYuk]

I'll add in, focus your mind on your forearm. Basically energy meditation/chikung/whatever, you want to focus on the part of the body you're working. Do it while conditioning the body part, do it while massaging the dit da jow into it. Your focus will aid the healing process.

The comment on checking whether or not you're progressing is also important. The conditioning process should be gradual, otherwise you're just continually breaking down your body before it gets to heal completely.

[IronFist]

To the best of my knowledge, even if you're conditioned you will still bruise, it just won't hurt as much.

Also, to the best of my knowedge, you shouldn't lose sensitivity. In other words, you should still be able to feel the gentlest touch on your forearms and at the same time not be hurt by a hard blow.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong on either of those points.

[Serpent]

Iron, that's mostly correct. The only slight error is that, for most people, bruising will reduce considerably as you get more conditioned. It takes a really serious blow to bruise my forearms nowadays. Some people are peaches, however, and will continue to bruise. I'm not too sure why that is though...

[blooming lotus]

I have had a few breaks and bruises lately myself ( probably being predominantly vegetarian and discovering sand bags / china style ) and often haven't had a dit dar. A friend of mine gave me a camphor / arnica blend ( available readily at most pharmacies throughout the world) and while it didn't work as well as a jow, it brought the brusing up quickly and with stretches and massage, I healed much quicker.

Previously the boys've suggested weights to increase bone density and absorbtion, at this stage it's probably great advice. You might also want to have a look at your Iron intake. The folks here work their gongfu hard core as it comes, and I think you get to a stage where you just don't bruise anymore. I think it's in density.

good luck with it.


did we catch what you were doing for forearm conditioning?? www.matialartsmart are selling "shoalin rings' fairly cheaply and besides wrist curls with dumbells, heavy pole / stick work, It's not a bad choice.


cheers again

BL

[Serpent]

Increased density is a part of conditioning and is also a by-product of lifting, so it's all relevant, however, wrist curls (as you call them) are an isolation exercise and that time would be pretty wasted from a conditioning point of view.

I'm thinking the poster is referring to conditioning in the form of wooden dummy, sarm sing, etc.

Arnica blends would certainly be better than nothing if no dit da jow was available.

[blooming lotus]

so dynamic weighted wrists then ????

and what if you can get your wrist curls to perform like stick / pole movement??

does anyone do that??

[FngSaiYuk]

Originally posted by Serpent
Some people are peaches, however, and will continue to bruise. I'm not too sure why that is though...

Vitamin C is excellent against bruising. Make sure you get a lot more than the basic recommended 100% amount per day.

Sometimes it's just straight genetics, some people will ALWAYS bruise.

[Samurai Jack]

I do wrist-curls in order to strengthen my forearms and wrists for iaido. Used to be a full power cut with my iai-to would kill my wrists, now it's no problem. Of course doing anything over and over for awhile is going to improve your technique, but I'm convinced that wrist curls help with weapons work.

[Serpent]

Absolutely, but that's wrist/forearm strength, not forearm conditioning (i.e. iron arm skills). Both are essential, of course.

Also, on the vit. C thing - there's no point in taking too much as you'll just pee it out, but if your vit. C is low, then increasing it could help with bruising. Good call.

[Samurai Jack]

Originally posted by Serpent
Absolutely, but that's wrist/forearm strength, not forearm conditioning (i.e. iron arm skills). Both are essential, of course.


Ah stand corrected.

[IronMonkey]

Originally posted by FngSaiYuk
Vitamin C is excellent against bruising. Make sure you get a lot more than the basic recommended 100% amount per day.

Sometimes it's just straight genetics, some people will ALWAYS bruise.

Wow, thats something I didnt know, and now that I do, its something I never have to worry about, cause I get a minimum of 100% per day, hehe :) I also try to get a lot of calcium as I can, heh.

[rubthebuddha]

the average person can handle a couple hundred milligrams of vitamin c every few hours. more than that goes right in the toilet. that's why you should take it in moderate amounts throughout the day -- just like everything else.

[IronFist]

OK.

1. Weight lifting can make the bones more dense, but it's probably not going to do a whole lot for your conditioning. Repeated impact will increase density, tho. Look up Wolff's law (I think that's what it's called).

2. Most men don't need extra iron, gung fu or not. Unless you like being constipated have having stiff joints. If you eat a normal diet (ie. you're not a vegetarian), you don't need extra iron.

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by FngSaiYuk
Vitamin C is excellent against bruising. Make sure you get a lot more than the basic recommended 100% amount per day.

Sometimes it's just straight genetics, some people will ALWAYS bruise.

is this because the vit c aides iron absorbtion and cellular skin elasticisty / strength etc or is there something I missed???

is ODing the RDI ( recommended daily intake ) wise though??? , promting toxicity for folks who don't know the difference can't be great. Toxicity for vit c gives you dried and peely, itchy skin!! ( eeewww!!)

I do maybe a litre ish to 1200 ml a day max but flush hard core with water and something tannin based like good teas . I'm not 100% but I think the tannin acts like a partial assitringent , but I do it cold , I do it bitter and I do frequently.


What are we recommending here??

[FngSaiYuk]

Good point on the ODing on Vit C. Most people have no problem taking 10x the RDI amount esp. throughout the day, since VitC is water soluble.

These are suggestions to look into. It's difficult to be more precise in anything since we don't know the body type and biochem reactions of this particular persons body. For all we know there could be just a genetic predisposition to bruising.

Here's a solid suggestion, though. Try to find a sports doctor who is familiar with the forearm conditioning training that can examine the body, training, diet and lifestyle. This is in the severe cases when the bruising is a constant concern and affects other aspects of training.

[Ming Yue]

In my training I do a lot of forearm conditioning excercises. When I first started I was bruised practically from wrist to elbow. I AM one of those people who bruise easily - very fair skinned - and now I will still bruise after a tough session, but my bruises are less painful and heal much more quickly. I also don't feel pain at all anymore when drilling.


I was assured by my doctor that repeated bruising over a bony area will not result in long term damage, as long as the bruise is not at or below basal skin level. Even hematomas, raised bruises, will heal completely and not cause compounded damage if you bruise the same area over again. Don't pound overly hard on an existing bruise, however. Use your Jow and make sure you're healed before your next session. If you have to train through a bad bruise, compression wrap it.


I bought a galvanized metal plumbing pipe from the hardware store, about 1.5 inch diameter. I filled it with sand and plugged the ends with rubber caps and roll that over my forearms for about 20 minutes three times a week. palms facing, forearms parallel with the floor, roll the bar from wrist to elbow and back. then seated, put the bar across your thighs and roll your forearms across it, this time working the back side of your forearms.

I also reccommend training with skinny 15 year old boys. I've got a handful like that in class and thier forearms are like banging your arms on the edge of an unsharpened sword. :)

[Vash]

[tasteless humor]


Originally posted by Ming Yue
I bought . . . skinny 15 year old boys. I've got a handful like that . . . their . . . like banging . . . the edge of an unsharpened sword. :)

I don't know what to say. :eek: :D

[/tasteless humor]

[Ming Yue]

ok now, don't make me stop this thread.

:p

[IronFist]

rofl @ Vash!!!

[Meat Shake]

"is ODing the RDI ( recommended daily intake ) wise though??? "


Hmm... RDI's....

I maybe should start a whole nother thread on this...
RDI's were established in the 40's or 50's, using men in their 20s and 30s. The men that they used were healthy white males, none athletes however. No females were used in the studies.

Im just curious, but how relevant can this information be to a 20 year old thats training 25 hours or more a week? Even more, what about an obese 15 year old girl with no athletic activities? Or an average 40 year old female with moderate cardio vascular activities?
Possibly we need to establish a more specific means of determining necessary daily intake.

BL - this isnt an attack on you, just something Ive been meaning to bring up and you were the first one to remind me of RDIs.

[rubthebuddha]

to further meat shake's point, the RDAs/RDIs listed values of bare minimums for maintenance/avoidance of disease. if you're a young, sedentary, white male whose BCI is around 2000, then the values are what you should ingest to avoid unhealthy consequences of a shoddy diet and otherwise maintain the status quo.

however, few on this forum are sedentary, young, white males who desire to remain the same. most are constantly changing their body composition (or at least trying to, in ironfist's case). to cut fat from one's body the non-surgical way, one needs to adjust his or her diet accordingly. the same is for muscle growth, increases in strength, etc.

add this to research that has been showing a lower nutritional value of many plant-based food products (fruits, veggies, etc.) due to constant farming and the reputed nutrient leeching of soil, and we get nutritional numbers for foods that may not match what the USDA found 50 or 100 years ago. an orange from a century ago probably isn't the equivalent to its ancestor.

[Ming Yue]

the info on nutritional content of modern non organic plant food is interesting.. have any links to share? I googled but got weak results.

[KaiKhoon]

I've had low iron for a long while now, better never suffered any results such as low energy. I've eaten more meat, taken pills nothing seems to get it to where its supposed to be, but I still have no problems with energy, if anything I have to much :D .

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by Meat Shake
"is ODing the RDI ( recommended daily intake ) wise though??? "


Hmm... RDI's....

I maybe should start a whole nother thread on this...
RDI's were established in the 40's or 50's, using men in their 20s and 30s. The men that they used were healthy white males, none athletes however. No females were used in the studies.

Im just curious, but how relevant can this information be to a 20 year old thats training 25 hours or more a week? Even more, what about an obese 15 year old girl with no athletic activities? Or an average 40 year old female with moderate cardio vascular activities?
Possibly we need to establish a more specific means of determining necessary daily intake.

BL - this isnt an attack on you, just something Ive been meaning to bring up and you were the first one to remind me of RDIs.

Hmm...dong ( understand )

like to play the variables myself.regardless of present relevance.....


no hard feelings : just talking shop right??


AND Believe me because I usually and ideally train 11- 12 hrs daily and 6 - 10 min otherwise.


Sincerely intersted because to be honest I 'm really not sure on the rdi history. no doubt there are vARIANTS WITH TIME BUT PLS, CHAT ON ..... YOU WERE SAYING???


ps: appology for "yelling " but too busy to go back and change :cool: ??

;) :)

[Serpent]

For the Australians it's worth bearing in mind that most RDI's on food products are 10 - 20% greater than necessary.

bl, you're raving again.

[blooming lotus]

just a lil pis*ed this morning ...

point taken

Ps: if rdis are 10 - 20% > , mind toxicity ha :)

does someone have a link for the folks ??

[Bak Kuei]

blooming lotus says: "I usually and ideally train 11- 12 hrs daily"

It sounds like she is pulling your legs there. No one (not even the Shaolin Temple monks or world-class Wushu athletes) ever trains 11 to 12 hrs a day.

[blooming lotus]

not recently, but ideally I'm a training fiend and little more.

believe it, match it, ignore it.

[Bak Kuei]

LOL! :D Um... ooooookay. :p

[FngSaiYuk]

Originally posted by Bak Kuei
blooming lotus says: "I usually and ideally train 11- 12 hrs daily"

It sounds like she is pulling your legs there. No one (not even the Shaolin Temple monks or world-class Wushu athletes) ever trains 11 to 12 hrs a day.

It DOES sound like she's pulling our legs here, however, I'd have to say that it's possible for people to train UP to 12 hours a day... just not EVERY day.

When I was younger, worked a part time job and lived with my parents, I had enough time on my hands (and no real other social life) to be able to train 8-12 hours 6 days out of the week. I only worked mon-wed so thu through sun could be dedicated to training.

Of course I only hit 12 hours maybe a couple of days out of the month. Also training meant everything from aerobics, weights, forms, conditioning and meditation.

Also at this time in my life I would rarely sleep more than 4-6 hours a night.

So my point is, it's rare, but it could happen. However, past posts by BL would contradict her training THAT much unless she NEVER slept, let alone post.

[Serpent]

Good lord, what's the matter with you people? Haven't you learned yet that everything bl says is magnified 10x?

[Vash]

Originally posted by Serpent
Good lord, what's the matter with you people?

Not enough god ****ed lesbian porn, I'd say.

[blooming lotus]

lol you poor and deprived horn bag :rolleyes:


as for the training of up to that many hrs. you are right, when I do this at least 2ce a week I drop back to 6 -8 hrs and I can't keep it up for more than 5 - 6 mths.

It's crazy for sure and sometimes I study on top of it, and am a single mommy with a lil chick totally needing my attention for as long as she's near ( out of school or not at function/ co - curricular persuit etc).

To be honest, i considered this again last night, and I am quite serious about my HM Phd / Ch'an dissertation come book / and my medical studies. I realistically don't think I can pull it off again anytime soon, but 6 hrs a day each and every sounds a lil more realistic.

It's an awesome sensation( on so many levels ) to work so hard , but real life in consideration, it's just not feasible for most most of the time.


peace in your own training and standard to meet :) :cool: