Choy li fut Buddha stick (staff)?

[sayloc]

Does any one have any info on this form? Does it exist? Is it beginner intermediate or advaned? Long or short form?

Thanks for any replies.

[Ben Gash]

If it's the form I think it's a Chin Woo form that was modded and incorporated to teach basic double ended staff skills, which is why you don't tend to see it on CLF forms lists.

[sayloc]

Thanks Ben

Do you know what the name of the chin woo form would be?

Thanks for your time.

[Sow Choy]

Hey Guys,

The Chin Woo form adopted into our school (Lee Koon Hung), is simply called "Siu Lam Kwun" (Shaolin Staff).

We also have a form in our lineage called "Hung Jeh Kwun" (Monk Staff or we have heard it called Monkey Staff).

Where did you hear about this form? And what did you hear about it?

Ben, do you know this Chin Woo form? And where did you learn it?

Joe

[sayloc]

sow choy

I learned the form called buddha staff from a friend of mine, another kung fu instructer. The one I learned is fairly short but has a lot of great material/applicatin in it.

I was just wonderingif it was the real deal. I think it did come from the LKH line.

Thanks

[CLFNole]

If its from the Lee Koon Hung line then the form is Dai Hung Kay Dan Tow Kwun or the Big Red Flag Single Head Staff.

For some reason or another it got mislabled buddhist staff in the US when sifu came here. It is a relatively short form and on the surface appears somewhat easy, many people do it incorrectly with emphasis in wrong areas, etc. The form is meant to be done with a long and heavy staff, which makes it much more difficult to practice and as with most long single head staff forms the tip or top 1' of the staff is very important.

If you learned it from a friend the set may have been altered slightly since sifu would change things a bit for seminars.

Peace.

[Fu-Pow]

I think he is talking about a different form from Daai Hung Kei. Sifu Michael also teaches something called the Siu Lum Guan (http://www.fongs-kungfu.de/html/body_programm.html) It is different from the Daai Hung Kei Guan and I believe it is a Chin Woo form. Although I've never actually seen it I think it must be very basic.

Mak Sifu never learned this form so we don't have it in our curriculum. Instead he created his own basic staff form (or maybe LKH created it??)

BTW, CLFNole did you ever learn the CLF Ba Gua Daan Do?

Ciao

[sayloc]

Thanks for the info clf

toward the end of this form it has you jumping to the rear turning counter clock wise and landing on the right leg with the left leg up, staff above your head. Then you step out with the left leg making some distance and strike down

have a good day

[CLFNole]

Fu Pow:

I don't think that Sayloc was talking about the Siu Lum Kwun form that Joe referred to. Dai Hung Kay for some reason was referred to in english as Buddha Staff and I think that is the form he is speaking of.

The basic staff set I think your sifu teaches is bien gwai kwun or flat stick staff. It is on of our older sets.

We don't have a CLF Baat Kwa Do in our lineage.

Sayloc:

It kind of sounds right however your not supposed to hold in the one leg with the staff up. It is supposed to go right into the strike. That is typical when people learn from a seminar. They learn a form in a day and then it evolves since you can't learn a form 100% accurate in a seminar.

Peace.

[Shaolin Dude]

does the form start out in the southern ceremonial bow, right front pusk kick, jump into right bow, then punch with right hand? you're holding the staff in your left hand the whole time.

about the monkey staff...does it start out in a horse stance, with your palms together like you're praying and the staff rests on top of your elbows

[Firebird]

i learnd the Siu Lum Kwun as a basic form.

the staff form "Hung Jeh Kwun" is not a CLF Form ,
it's a Hung Gar Form adopted by CLF.
in my former school we learned also the 2 man version.

Fu-Pow,

Sifu Michael ( http://www.fongs-kungfu.de/) learnd this form here in Munich.
Before he concentrated on CLF he started Hung Gar and CLF
from A. Baklayan ( student of Bucksam Kong ) and learned it
at http://www.kung-fu-muc.de ( sorry, site in german language)

[CLFNole]

Firebird:

Hung Jeh Pang is a CLF form and has nothing to do with the Hung Gar form. The Hung Gar form translates to Monkey King Staff whereas the Hung Jeh in the CLF set refers to a Monk's Pilgramage and is buddhist related.

Same name two different meanings and two different forms.

Also the set they were referring to the Sifu Michael has was the Siu Lum Kwun form he learned from the Lee Koon Hung. It is a standard Jing Mo set.

Peace.

[sayloc]

clf

That is how I learned it. It is supposed to be like a fighting retreating action the turn and immediatly attack with the left leg forward stance (going through the one leg stance as a transition or possibly moving the leg in defense). The guy I learned it from said he learned it directly from LKH one on one.

Shaolin dude

It does not have a kick in the "bow". You are holding the staff in the left hand 1/3 of the way up from the bottom, them the right hand over the right shoulder then down and back to the rear. Step the right foot to north in cross stance then the left to cat and back for the bow. There are some hand movements missing, but I think lyou get the idea.

Thanks for the info guys.

[GARRA DE TIGRE]

hello everybody


speaking of day hung kay staff form , i wanna ask if anyone knows some background history about the red flag tied to the staff as is showing in some performances . i know the form is a great form using the staff whitout the flag , but i have this curiosity about why this staff form carry a red flag .

[sayloc]

clf

What level do you teach this form?

Thanks

[CLFNole]

Sayloc:

The way you described the ending sounds more correct you are supposed to feint a retreat sort to speak and strike. When you described it earlier it sounded like you were holding the one leg posture and then striking which would be incorrect.

Generally, this form is not taught in the curriculum in the US, however Li Siu Hung did teach it as a seminar here in the US and overseas.

It is considered somewhat of a higher level form, however it should be done with a long (7' or more) staff preferrably heavier. A short wushu staff makes the form quite easy.

This happens to be one of my favorite sets.

Who did you learn this form from I may know him?

Garra:

The form was done a long time ago with a flag attached to the staff. The red ribbon attached by some masters signifies the red flag and sometimes is looked to as someone of higher level or a master and would not be added by the typical student.

Peace.

[Fu-Pow]

Originally posted by CLFNole
Fu Pow:

The basic staff set I think your sifu teaches is bien gwai kwun or flat stick staff. It is on of our older sets.

We don't have a CLF Baat Kwa Do in our lineage.


We do the Bin Guai but we also have a "Basic Staff" that Mak Sifu must have created that precedes Bin Guai. It is very basic and very short. We also have Basic handsets 1,2,3 and 4 which Sifu teaches before Siu Mui Fah. I think he made these up also. They are also very short but contain some of the key moves of other low-mid level forms ie Tuet Jin, Ng Lun Chui and Siu Mui Fah. They are great for beginners because they give the "flavor" of CLF without too much sweat involved (like with Ng Lun Ma, Ng Lun Chui.)

I think Mak Sifu learned Baat Gua Do at some point but I'm not sure it was from Lee Koon Hung. It might have been from Poon Sing as he referred to learning it from "the old man." He mentioned whoever the teacher of the form was putting out tennis shoes in 8 directions from the center so that he could follow the "8 directions." Sound interesting but like several other forms I think Mak Sifu may have forgotten it.

Also, I think that our Hang Jeh does refer to the Monkey King. I saw Mak Sifu do the opening and it definitely looked like a monkey swinging a staff around. Are the characters different from our form?

[CLFNole]

The one I learned is not monkey like at all. I learned the set from sifu (Li Siu Hung) but years before I saw sifu (Lee Koon Hung) demonstrate parts of it. He referred to it as monk staff. He was going to teach it as a seminar but never got around to it.

I have spoken with some other CLF sifu's and they indicated the monk connection rather than the monkey king connection. Sifu Chan Kin Man has a book for Hung Jeh Kwun, which is the same set (similar yet different from ours) and translates it to Monks Waddy Play.

As far as the Baat Kwa Do goes I will defer to Sifu Mak. Sifu does have a 9-ring broadsword in the school and he told me there was a set for it, however I have never seen it and all of my old tapes and videos have nothing with it. Ask him if he learned it from sifu or Poon Sing. I know Lee Koon Hung knew a lot and some forms likely passed along with him which is sad.

Peace.

[Fu-Pow]

Originally posted by CLFNole
The one I learned is not monkey like at all. I learned the set from sifu (Li Siu Hung) but years before I saw sifu (Lee Koon Hung) demonstrate parts of it. He referred to it as monk staff. He was going to teach it as a seminar but never got around to it.

I have spoken with some other CLF sifu's and they indicated the monk connection rather than the monkey king connection. Sifu Chan Kin Man has a book for Hung Jeh Kwun, which is the same set (similar yet different from ours) and translates it to Monks Waddy Play.

In the form you know, do you hit the staff on the ground at the beginning? We may be talking about different forms.




As far as the Baat Kwa Do goes I will defer to Sifu Mak. Sifu does have a 9-ring broadsword in the school and he told me there was a set for it, however I have never seen it and all of my old tapes and videos have nothing with it. Ask him if he learned it from sifu or Poon Sing. I know Lee Koon Hung knew a lot and some forms likely passed along with him which is sad.

Peace.

Yeah it is really sad that some of the forms are being lost to time. It would be cool if the LKH family could compile everything they learned into a video repository or something. I guess there is too much ego floating around to get something like that together. Maybe it is up to us...the next generation.

[CLFNole]

Fu Pow:

Yes the staff smacks the ground so I am sure its the same one.

I have a tape (HK-Pal) format with a catalog of the forms and the Baat Kwa Do is not part of it. Some years ago Li Siu Hung, Joe, Raiden and myself recorded all our sets and put them on a vcd. You and your hing dai should do the same since its always good to have reference material.

Peace.

[Sow Choy]

Hung Je Kwun or Paan,

Even Master Li Siu Hung is not sure if it is Monkey or Monk, The more popular is Monk's Staff... But when Lee Koon Hung opened in America lots of names were changed... Example "Hok Ying Kuen" was translated into Drunken Crane Form, even though the form nor the name in Cantonese has anything drunken about it...

The form does have alot of hits to the ground... so I can see how someone could think of this maybe being monkey like, and the form changes directions alot, very different then our other staff sets.

But like alot of other forms, names were changed or given possibly after the form was created...

I find it funny that we are always lookin for more meanings about the forms, when the true meaning is in the techniques...

Like our Ba gua sets.... they do not have 8 directions... so, who knows what they ere thinking....

And Ba Gua Do... Chin Woo has a sword form named that... I have seen it so many times I can probably do it... Just ask any of Sifu Jimmy Wongs students, lol :)

Joe

[Shaolin Dude]

Originally posted by sayloc

Shaolin dude

It does not have a kick in the "bow". You are holding the staff in the left hand 1/3 of the way up from the bottom, them the right hand over the right shoulder then down and back to the rear. Step the right foot to north in cross stance then the left to cat and back for the bow. There are some hand movements missing, but I think lyou get the idea.

Thanks for the info guys.

I meant there is a kick after the "bow". I saw my sifu doing this form and it looks exactly like the staff form lee koon hung put out in that thin instructional book. I think the name was whirling staff of CLF

[sayloc]

Shaolin dude

There is not a kick after the "bow" You step the right foot to the E (left leg fwd to West) and block or strike low to the North (however you see it) with the left hand high by the left side of the head.

Thanks.

[CLFNole]

The staff form from the book (Loong Hang Kwun) is a different form entirely. That form is double end staff form and the one we are talking about is a single end staff form.

Peace.