Mongols

[Hermes3X]

Other than Shuai Jiao, does anybody know of any styles of kung fu that were influenced or created by the Mongols, during the Yuan Dynasty (1280-1380 +/-), or by ethnic Han in response to the Mongol invasions ?

Hermes 3x back from the Hurricanes

[richard sloan]

would Fu Yu count as an Mongol influencer...

[Vajramusti]

The Mongols were practically upto the gates of Paris. In their march they affected/influenced martial arts all through their marches--- changing the grappling arts for the Uzbekhs, Afghans,
Persians, Indians and Turks. plus archery, horsemanship and swordsmanship. The countries had their own versions of each
but the Mongol influence changed many things including the refinement of hooking and throwing.

[red5angel]

The Mongols were practically upto the gates of Paris. In their march they affected/influenced martial arts all through their marches--- changing the grappling arts for the Uzbekhs, Afghans,


says who?

[MasterKiller]

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/genghis/khanmap.html

That's a good ways from Paris...

[Shaolinlueb]

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/2532/img19.gif they kept russia in the middla eages for a loooooong time.

[Vajramusti]

The Mongol history is complex- and parts of it as expected are debated by right handed and left handed scholars. The Mongol raids was not just one event and Genghiz is only one part of Mongol history. Mongols had many bands- sometimes they acted in unision and sometimes broke off into rival factions - conducting their own raids. They intermarried with locals creating mixed Tartars and even factions of Huns.... Attila etc headed towards france. Babur and other Monghuls turned back and went south to India- founded the Moghul dynasty. Intermarriage, settling down created variances in language and customs depending on locality.Many Mongol groups got Islamicized in the Middle east. Competitive wrestling, hand to hand on horseback, strong bows, light silk "armor" are all characteristics of Mongol war and training.
Oil massage prior to wrestling in pits were all part of their training.Timeline of Conquest . See Robert Smith (Gilbey etc) writings on wrestling to see the thesis of the long Islamic corridor of wrestling influenced by the Mongols.
Dont think in terms of modern armies- Mongols came in hordes a nd waves. "Little" Mongolia was once a great incubator.

Joy Chaudhuri
-----------------------------------------------------------
-Also see------------------(Source Encyclopedia Hpme-Net)
The Mongols attempted two unsuccessful invasions of Japan. The first invasion fleet was utterly destroyed by a typhoon (kamikaze). The Mongolian fleets survived the typhoon the second time but the landed troops, starved because their provisions had been lost in the typhoon, were annihilated by Japanese infantry and samurai.

Other Mongol defeats include their invasion of Java, and south East Asia (Modern day Vietnam). The tropical climate proved unstuitable to cavalry, and while Vietnam was made a vassal state, Java remained autonomous much to the fury of Kubilai.


1200, Northern China - Unknown number killed
1215, Yanjing China (today Beijing) - Unknown number killed
1221, Nishapur, Persia - ~1.7 million killed in assault
1221, Merv, Persia - ~1.3 million killed in assault
1221, Meru Chahjan, Persia - ~1.3 million killed in assault
1221, Rayy, Persia - ~1.6 million killed in assault
1226, Tangut Campaign - Gengis Khan launches war against the northern China people of Tangut.
1258, Baghdad - ~800,000 people. Results in destruction of Abbasid dynasty
1226-1266 (re-check dates) - ~18 million reported killed in conquest of northern Chinese territory. This number estimated by Kublai Khan himself.----------------

[Vajramusti]

--Part 2-Mongols------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A time-line of the Mongols
World News | Politics | History | Editor
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(Copyright © 1999 Piero Scaruffi)

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450BC: Turkic-speaking tribes migrate from Siberia to the steppes north of the Aral and Balkash lakes where they give rise to the Huns
250BC: China repels an invasion by the turkic-speaking Hsiung-nu
220BC: the Hsiung-nu defeat the Yuezhi, who are forced to move south towards Iran and India
209BC: first Hun (Hsiung-nu?) state
200BC: the Hsiung-nu conquer northern and western China
48AD: the Chinese drove the Hsiung-nu out of China
50AD: the Xianbei (mounted archers) invade north China
350: the Chinese repelled an invasion by the Ruruan (Juan-Juan), who in turn drove the Hsiung-nu west toward the Ural Mountains and the Caspian Sea
350: the turkic-speaking Huns move west towards Europe, settling in the plains between the Ural and the Carpathian mountains
450: the mongolian Ruruan (Juan-Juan) empire controlled territories from Manchuria to lake Balkas
451: Attila invades the Roman empire
552: the turkic-speaking khanate of Boumin ("Khan of the blue Turks") crushed the Mongols and extended its empire from Manchuria to the Aral sea (Western and Eastern Khanate)
580: Tardu unifies the Turks
601: Turks under the command of Tardu siege China's capital Xian
629: the Chinese Tang begin anti-Turk campaigns
651: the Tang annex the Western Khanate
686: the mongolian Kitan from Manchuria raid China
744: the Chinese Tang dismantle the Turk empire
744: the turkic-speaking Uigurs, thanks to their alliance with the Tang, conquer the Eastern Khanate and expand from Lake Balkash to Lake Baykal, with capital in Kara-Balgasun (first turkic alphabet)
745: the turkic-speaking Uigur empire is founded in Mongolia
846: the Kirghiz drive the Uighurs west to the Tarim Basin
925: the mongolian Kitan expand towards eastern Mongolia (driving away the kyrgiz), most of Manchuria (their homeland, where they ruled over the Jurchen), and most of northern China, and establish the Liao dynasty
1100: the turkic-speaking Seldjuks expand in Persia, Mesopotamia and Turkey
1115: the Jurchen (Manchu) overrun the Kitan and found the Jin dynasty
1130: the Kitan are driven southwest, defeat the Seljuk and establish the Karakitai state
1135: Mongols led by Kabul Khan raid northern China
1190: Temujin (Genghis Khan) Becomes king of the Mongols
1206: Temujin (Genghis Khan) unifies all mongol and tatar tribes
1210: Temujin (Genghis Khan) conquers the kingdom of Xi Xia
1215: Temujin (Genghis Khan) conquers the kingdom of the Jin/Jurchen
1216: Temujin (Genghis Khan) builds a new citadel, Karakorum
1218: the Mongols conquer the kingdom of Kara-Khitai (Kitan/Liao)
1219: Temujin (Genghis Khan) conquers the Khwarizm empire (Uzbekistan)
1220: the Mongols conquer Merv (Turkmenistan)
1221: the Mongols conquer Herat (Afghanistan)
1223: a first Mongol horde defeats a coalition of Russian princes on the Kalka river
1226: the Jurchen invade northern China and Korea
1226: Genghis Khan attacks the Soong state
1227: Genghis Khan dies and is succeeded by Ogodai, the empire is split among khanates (Batu's Blue Horde, Orda's White Horde, Chaghatay's khanate in Mughulistan) and Ogodai moves the capital to Karakorum
1231: the Mongols invade Korea
1237: the Mongols, led by Batu, invade Russia
1240: Batu's Mongols ("blue horde") take Kiev, capital of Russia
1241: Batu's "Blue Horde" invade Poland, Hungary and the Balkans
1241: Ogodai dies and the Mongols retreat from Europe
1241: Batu's younger brother Shayban raids Hungary and then splits, establishing the Shaybanid Horde
1246: the papal envoy Giovanni da Pian del Carpine visits the Mongol capital Karakorum
1251: Hulegu leads the Mongol invasion of Persia and establishes the Ilkhanate
1255: Hulegu, the Ilkhan, invades the Middle East and captures Bagdhad, which becomes the capital of the Ilkhanate
1257: Mongols led by Kublai conquer China all the way to Hanoi
1258: Mongols led by Hulegu conquer Mesopotamia and Syria
1260: Kublai is appointed Khan and declares Buddhism the state religion
1260: Mongols are defeated for the first time in Palestine (by Muslims, in the battle of Ain Jalut)
1263: Hulegu assumes the title of "Ilkhan" as ruler of Persia
1265: Hulegu dies
1267: Kublai Khan moves the Mongol capital to Dadu (Beijing) and founds the Yuan dynasty
1274: Kublai Khan fails to invade Japan
1277: the Mongols invade Burma
1282: the new Shaybanid khan Uzbek converts the Shaybanid horde to Islam and his horde becomes known as the Uzbeks
1284: the Uighur empire is absorbed into the Chagatai Khanate
1293: Kublai Khan fails to invade Java
1294: Kublai Khan dies and the empire fragments in khanates: Sarai in the west (descendants of Batu, the "golden horde"), Beijing in the east (the Yuan), Sultaniyeh in Persia (the Ilkhan Sultanate, descendants of Hulegu) and the Chaghatai Khanate in the center
1295: Ghazan, the Ilkhan, converts to Islam
1304: Oljeitu, the Ilkhan, proclaims himself a shiite
1304: Mongols under Ali Beg invade India but are repelled by the Delhi sultanate
1316: Oljeitu, the Ilkhan, builds a new capital, Sultaniyeh, and his own domed mausoleum
1327: Chagatay khan Tarmashirin converts to Islam
1328: the Mongols invade India but are repelled by the Delhi sultanate
1335: Abu Said dies and the Ilkhan khanate ends
1342: Shaybanid khan Uzbek dies
1350: the Shaybani horde (southeast of the Urals) renames itself Uzbek
1365: the turkic-speaking Timur overthrow the Chaghatai khanate and conquers Persia, establishing his capital in Samarkand
1368: the Ming dynasty is founded by a Chinese peasant and former Buddhist monk turned rebel, Chu Yuanchang, under whose leadership China regains independence from the Mongols
1378: union of White Horde and Blue Horde into the Golden Horde (Kipchak Khanate) under Toqtamish, with capital in Sarai Berke
1384: Timur captures Herat and Sultaniyeh (the Ilkhan)
1388: the Ming defeat the Yuan and destroy Karakorum
1391: Timur defeats the "golden horde" and reaches the Black Sea
1395: Timur sacks Sarai Berke, ending central control of the Golden Horde
1395: the Khazak horde seizes Khazakstan from the Chagatai and Golden hordes
1398: Timur invades India and sacks Delhi, causing demise of the Delhi Sultinate
1402: Timur captures Ottoman Turk Sultan Beyazid I
1405: Timur dies (buried in Samarkand) on his way to conquer China and his empire disintegrates
1407: Timur's son Shah Rukh re-conquers most of Timur's empire
1409: Shah Rukh moves the Timurid capital to Herat
1417: Shah Rukh is succeeded by his son Ulugh Beg
1420: Ulugh Beg begins to build the Registan in Samarkand
1430: part of the Golden Horde splits off to form the Khanate of the Crimea under Hajji Giray Khan
1440: the Uzbeks move south to Transoxiana under Abu al-Khayr
1447: Shah Rukh dies and his son Ulugh Beg succeeds him
1449: Ulugh Beg is murdered by his own son
1445: part of the Golden Horde splits off to form the Khanate of Kazan
1451: Abu Said rules the Timurids
1451: Muhammad Shaybani becomes the khan of the Uzbeks
1460: the Turcomans invade Persia and Mesopotamia
1466: Dayan Khan unifies the Mongolian tribes again in Mongolia
1466: part of the Golden Horde splits off to form the Khanate of Astrakhan
1469: Abu Said dies and the western Timurid empire (the Ilkhan) dissolves
1478: Husayn Bayqara rules the Timurids from Herat
1480: Ivan III liberates Russia from the Mongols
1497: Babur, a descendant of both Genghis Khan and Timur, becomes the ruler of Ferghana and founds the Mughal (Mogul) dynasty
1500: the Uzbeks cross the Syr Darya river and enter Transoxiana
1502: the Golden Horde is destroyed by the Crimean Khanate
1504: Babur conquers Kabul
1505: the Shaybanid Horde (Uzbeks) under Muhammad Shaybani expel the Timurids from Transoxiana and capture Samarkand
1506: the Uzbek Shaybanids capture Bukhara (Uzbekistan) and Herat (Afghanistan), bringing to an end the Timurid dynasty and forcing Babur to flee
1510: the Uzbek khan Muhammad Shaybani dies in battle against the Safavids at Merv
1514: under the eastern Chagataid Khan Sayid the capital moves from Ili to Kashgar
1522: Babur captures Kandahar
1526: Babur captures Delhi from Ibrahim, the sultan of Delhi, and founds the Mogul empire in India
1530: Babur dies and his son Humayun succeeds him
1538: Abdullah Shaybanid II expands the Shaybanid (Uzbek) empire and moves the capital to Bukhara
1540: Babur's son Humayun loses the empire to Afghan Leader Sher Shah and goes into exile in Persia
1543: Dayan dies and the Mongol empire disintegrates again
1552: Russian conquers the khanate of Kazan
1555: the Mogul king Humayun reconquers India
1556: Russian conquers the khanate of Astrakhan
1556: the Mogul king Humayun dies and his son Akbar becomes the ruler of India
1578: Altan Khan converts to Buddhism
1598: Abdullah Shaybanid II of the Uzbeks dies and the Astrakhanid dynasty inherits power in Transoxiana, retaining the in Bukhara
1619: the Shaybanid (Uzbek) khan Yalangtush Bahador begins construction of the Sher Dor madrasa in Samarkand's Registan
1646: the Uzbeks begin construction of the Tilla Kari madrasa in Samarkand's Registan
1740: the Astrakhanid dynasty collapses

[Fu-Pow]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
http://www.nationalgeographic.com/genghis/khanmap.html

That's a good ways from Paris...

Your map shows 1227 the year that Genghis Khan died. It also says his descendants went further. Yikes!

[MasterKiller]

It says they went to Eastern Europe. They never got passed Poland. Check SL's map.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/2532/img19.gif

That's STILL hardly Paris.

[HanRen]

yep the mongols basically kicked the German-Austrilian allillance army's arses, according to the history books I've read the mongol army was marching to sack city of Veinne (about 100 miles or less away from it, I could be wrong either 100 miles away or actually looking at the city of Vienne, this is the furtherest expansion of Mongol in Europe), but they stopped the invasion further deeper into Western Europe was beacuse that the Khan dies. In Mongol tradition, selecting a new Khan is not like father passing to the son that simple, all the major generals, elders and leaders of tribs need to show your support to the one you support to be a Khan in the grand meeting at mongol homeland, if you failed to show up you lose your "vote" meaning you could lose your power back home and more.

[Fu-Pow]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
It says they went to Eastern Europe. They never got passed Poland. Check SL's map.

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Forum/2532/img19.gif

That's STILL hardly Paris.

I was talking about your map which was posted before the other map. You didn't read it carefully, now did you?

[MasterKiller]

Sure I did. Eastern Europe is clearly indicated. I just didn't think it was that big of a deal.

I think you just have a boner for me because you want my Long Fist style.

[Archangel]

The Mongols reached the gates of Vienna in 1241-1242 (this was after the death of Ghengis). It was pure chance that Ogedi Khan died of alcohol poisoning and they had to turn back. If not for that event the Mongols would have annihilated Western Europe and most of us on this forum would be looking through the world with "asian eyes".

Just do a google search for - Mongols Vienna or check out this web page

http://www.fsmitha.com/h3/h11mon2.htm

[Fu-Pow]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
Sure I did. Eastern Europe is clearly indicated. I just didn't think it was that big of a deal.

I think you just have a boner for me because you want my Long Fist style.

lol:D

[David Jamieson]

A great deal of the eastern Eurpoean countries to this day have a great deal of mongol blood flowing in their veins.

Same as a great deal of coastal mediterraneans have moorsih blood flowing in their veins.

But the Khans never made it into western Europe, and certainly never beset Paris.

Seems that all these great dynasties are only great as far as teh ego of the founder and anyone who takes his place...they alwasy collapse when the leader dies.

That's what made the dynasty last was the will to go further in many cases. In those cases where their is no heir, Like in Alexander for instance, upon his death, his empire collapsed.

[Vajramusti]

Comments on Kung Lek's post:

A great deal of the eastern Eurpoean countries to this day have a great deal of mongol blood flowing in their veins.
((Yes)



But the Khans never made it into western Europe, and certainly never beset Paris.

((Complex story- depends on sources and definitions--- the Khans
(genghiz etc) didnt.. the mongols broke off under regional commanders- intermarried and show up as tartars and some nands of huns. Attila and others went west. Mongol intermarriage modified the old mongol lines. Some mongols in the moghul dynasty in India, Aghansitan picked up Persian blood. Racial "purity" less important to Mongols than some other folks))

Seems that all these great dynasties are only great as far as teh ego of the founder and anyone who takes his place...they alwasy collapse when the leader dies.

((Not so simple...key is in part who takes their place as you say--
power struggles within marauding bands are complex things. Mongols didnt end with the great khans... lots of little khans around.In Pakistan khan is still a special status name))

That's what made the dynasty last was the will to go further in many cases. In those cases where their is no heir, Like in Alexander for instance, upon his death, his empire collapsed.

((Not so simple... the collapse can take time- not exacyly presto. Ptolemy in Egypt, Seleuccus in NW India and part middle east
held on to their segments and created mini dynasties.
The devil in the details))

[GeneChing]

May 14, 2016 Archaeology

Mongolia: Archaeologists Unearth Tomb Of Genghis Khan (http://mysteriousearth.net/2016/05/14/mongolia-archaeologists-unearth-tomb-of-genghis-khan/)

http://mysteriousearth.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Genghis11-1-300x157.jpg
Genghis1[1]

Öndörkhaan| Construction workers employed in road building near the Onon River in the Khentii province of Mongolia, have discovered a mass grave containing the remains of many dozens of human corpses lying upon a large rudimentary stone structure. Forensic experts and archaeologists were called on the site, which was revealed to be a Mongolian royal tomb from the 13th century that the scientists believe to be Genghis Khan’s.

The team of scientists affiliated with the University of Beijing, has concluded that the numerous skeletons buried on top of the structure were most likely the slaves who built it and who were then massacred to keep the secret of the location. The remains of twelve horses were also found on the site, certainly sacrificed to accompany the Great Khan in death.

A total of 68 skeletons were found buried together, almost directly over the top of a rather crude stone structure.

http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/genghis3-300x157.jpg

The content of the tomb was scattered and badly deteriorated, presumably due to the fact that the site was located beneath the river bed for hundreds of years, until the course of the Onon river changed in the 18th century. The remains of a tall male and sixteen female skeletons were identified among hundreds of gold and silver artefacts and thousands of coins. The women are presumed to have been wives and concubines of the leader, who were killed to accompany the warlord in the afterlife.

The amount of treasure and the number of sacrificed animals and people, have immediately led the archaeologists to consider that the site was certainly the burial site of a really powerful Mongol warlord. After realizing an extensive set of tests and analysis, they were able to confirm that the body belonged to a man aged between 60 and 75, who died between 1215 and 1235 AD. Both the age, the date, the location and the opulence of the site seem to confirm that the tomb does indeed belong to Genghis Khan.

http://worldnewsdailyreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/genghis2-300x208.jpg
The simple rock dome discovered by the archaeologists, was presumably buried beneath the Onon river for centuries.

The incontestable historical importance of Genghis Khan makes this new discovery one of the most important in the history of archaeology. Born Temüjin (which means “of iron”), he was the founder and Great Khan (emperor) of the Mongol Empire, which became the largest contiguous empire in history after his demise. He is known for uniting the warring tribes of Mongolia and merging them into one before launching a series of military campaigns in China, Central Asia, the Middle East and even Eastern Europe. He conquered more than 31 million square kilometers of land during his lifetime.

His legacy has taken many forms besides his conquest and can still be found today, making him one of the most influential men in the history of mankind. He connected the East and the West through the creation of the Silk Route, a trade route that would become and remain for centuries, the main network of trade and cultural transmission in Eurasia, opening long-distance, political and economic interactions between the civilizations.

Genghis Khan also has an incredible number of descendants, as some genetic studies have shown that he could be the direct ancestor of 1 human out every 200 who are alive today. In Mongolia alone as many as 200,000 of the country’s 2 million people could be Genghis Khan descendants.

I might as well add the Marco-Polo-Netflix-Original-Series (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?62877-Marco-Polo-Netflix-Original-Series) thread here, while I'm at it.

[B.Tunks]

Unfortunately not: http://badsatiretoday.com/tomb-genghis-khan-mongolia/

[mawali]

The Mongols were formidable horsemen warriors of their day! Through rape and pillage, Mongol ascendancy shows up in 'odd places' showing that even though their deeds are forgotten, the phenotype image still remains. They destroyed Afghanistan and formed the character of Pushtunwali as it is today! Even Uzbeks and some Tajik are treated like dogs by the Pushtun because they are a reminded of the past when the Mongol hordes destroyed many of the local landmarks of the Hindu Kush. I was in Bamiyan before Taliban destroyed the Buddha statues inside the mountain formation and it tells of a Buddhist past that was overcome through forced conversion evidenced by the descendants who happened to have stayed over the centuries.

They may not have reached Poland through conquest but I have met Polish girls who show Eurasian characteristics of a past era. Same with Ukraine where Tartars were once a recognizable minority but were driven out through Russian control in the Soviet era.

[GeneChing]

Unfortunately not: http://badsatiretoday.com/tomb-genghis-khan-mongolia/ Good find, B.Tunks. I bow to your false web news fu skillz. Usually I double check articles for satire, but this didn't strike me as something satirical.

[GeneChing]

Frankly, I don't know what to believe now. It's like the election. :confused:


KUBLAI KHAAN’S IMPERIAL PALACE DISCOVERED UNDER THE FORBIDDEN CITY (http://www.newhistorian.com/kublai-khaans-imperial-palace-discovered-forbidden-city/6448/)

http://www.newhistorian.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Kublai-Khan-1.jpg
Kublai Khaan’s Imperial Palace Discovered Under the Forbidden City

Posted By: Ginger PeralesPosted date: May 09, 2016
The Palace Museum in Beijing, best known as the Forbidden City, recently confirmed the discovery of porcelain pieces and broken tiles dating back to the Yuan Dynasty established by Kublai Khaan in the thirteenth century, thus solving one of China’s greatest mysteries; the location of the Yuan Palace. As it turns out, it was right under the three that followed it – in the center of the royal residence.

The relics have been lying underground, buried for more than 600 years, beneath the feet of museum experts. The museum told the South China Morning Post the relics had been unearthed last year, but testing to confirm their age has only just been completed.

The sprawling complex known as the Forbidden City was the location of China’s imperial palace from 1420, during the Ming (1368-1644) and Qing Dynasties (1644-1911). Experts from the museum said in a statement that they had uncovered the foundation of the royal palace from the Yuan dynasty at an archeological dig site in the center of the Forbidden City. Archeologists had begun localized excavations at the site to learn more about its architecture and construction history.

Kublai Khaan was the fifth Great Khan (Khagan) of the Mongol Empire from 1260 until his death in 1294. As a grandson of Genghis Khan, Kublai succeeded his older brother as Khagan, but to do it he had to defeat his younger brother in a civil war that lasted until 1264. This marked the start of the empire’s disunity, and although as Khagan he still had influence over the entire empire, Kublai’s real power was reduced to Mongolia and China. On the whole, the realm stretched from the Pacific Ocean to the Black Sea, and from Siberia to what is today Afghanistan – one fifth of the world’s populated land area.

Kublai assumed the role of Emperor of China in 1271, establishing the Yuan dynasty which ruled over Mongolia, Korea and China, as well as several adjacent areas. By 1279, after Yuan forces had overcome the Southern Song dynasty, Kublai became the first non-native Emperor to defeat all of China.

The excavation site in the center of the complex revealed a total of four historic foundation layers all together, starting with Qing at the top, late Ming next, followed by early Ming and then the Yuan at the bottom. A director with the Palace Museum, Li Ji, told the website Youth.cn that all of the buildings from the Yuan time period had been removed prior to the Forbidden City’s construction, making the discovery extremely rare.

Other nearby discoveries include the remains of a garden palace built for the emperor’s mother, and a garbage pit for abandoned porcelain from the Qing dynasty. Li added that no large-scale construction or archaeological work will happen in the location of the relics, in order to minimize any impact to the surviving architecture.

[MarathonTmatt]

Unfortunately not: http://badsatiretoday.com/tomb-genghis-khan-mongolia/

From what I saw on a TV documentary on the Discovery Channel, Genghis Kahn's burial place may be inside a man-built mound built on top of Mongolia's largest mountain. No one can say "for sure" though. From what I saw on the TV show there is local Mongolian lore about the mountain linking it to Genghis Kahn's burial spot. And the mountain is off-limits to outsiders and no one is allowed to dig there... although they can't say for sure it's a good bet that it could be the spot.

It makes sense that their greatest leader would be buried at the highest point of their homeland. Even in Native cultures in the United States for instance, some of the important people (chiefs aka "sachems", "sagamores" etc.) are not too uncommonly given sky burials at or surrounding the high spot of the local topography of their respective domains. They are thereafter guardian spirits over-looking their homelands.

[B.Tunks]

Good find, B.Tunks. I bow to your false web news fu skillz. Usually I double check articles for satire, but this didn't strike me as something satirical.

;) I only checked because I was so excited about the news. Pretty cr@p satire if you ask me!

BT

[mig]

The Mongols were formidable horsemen warriors of their day! Through rape and pillage, Mongol ascendancy shows up in 'odd places' showing that even though their deeds are forgotten, the phenotype image still remains. They destroyed Afghanistan and formed the character of Pushtunwali as it is today! Even Uzbeks and some Tajik are treated like dogs by the Pushtun because they are a reminded of the past when the Mongol hordes destroyed many of the local landmarks of the Hindu Kush. I was in Bamiyan before Taliban destroyed the Buddha statues inside the mountain formation and it tells of a Buddhist past that was overcome through forced conversion evidenced by the descendants who happened to have stayed over the centuries.

They may not have reached Poland through conquest but I have met Polish girls who show Eurasian characteristics of a past era. Same with Ukraine where Tartars were once a recognizable minority but were driven out through Russian control in the Soviet era.

It sounds that this posting is mixing Mongols with prior nomads who were successful in invading and dominating other territories, are we talking about the Huns or the xiong nu? Not only Poland but mainly Romania many individuals have Asian facial features if that's a hint to say they have Hun or Mongol blood? One way to know better is when a baby is born there is a mark in their upper leg or lower back as having Mongoloid ancestry, the same happens with Amerindians birth mark. Mongols are later in the history we know today.

Mig

[GeneChing]

‘The greatest palace that ever was’: Chinese archaeologists find evidence of the fabled imperial home of Kublai Khan’s Yuan dynasty (http://www.scmp.com/news/china/society/article/1969971/greatest-palace-ever-was-chinese-archaeologists-find-evidence)
PUBLISHED : Thursday, 09 June, 2016, 11:01am
UPDATED : Friday, 10 June, 2016, 2:56am
Laura Zhou

For centuries the imperial palace of Kublai Khan’s Yuan dynasty was shrouded in mystery.
After the dynasty collapsed, there were no clues as to where it was and it lived on only in legend through writings such as those of 13th century Venetian merchant Marco Polo.
If Polo is to be believed, the walls of “the greatest palace that ever was” were covered with gold and silver and the main hall was so large that it could easily seat 6,000 people for dinner.
Chinese archaeologists solve mystery of Beijing’s Forbidden Palace

“The palace was made of cane supported by 200 silk cords, which could be taken to pieces and transported easily when the emperor moved,” he wrote in his travel journal.
It was a vision of grandeur but the palace disappeared, seemingly without trace.

The Yuan dynasty lasted for a less than a century, spanning the years from 1279 to 1368, and it is widely believed that the capital of the empire was Beijing.
But in the centuries since, one question has dogged historians and archaeologists in China: just where was the dynasty’s palace?

Now experts at the Palace Museum in Beijing believe that they have some answers, clues they stumbled upon during upgrades to the heritage site’s underground power and fire-extinguishing systems.
According to historical records, the Yuan palace in Beijing was abandoned by its last emperor, Toghon Temür, who was overthrown by rebel troops that established the Ming dynasty in the 14th century.
Some experts believe the palace was razed by Ming soldiers who took over the city, while others insist the buildings were removed by Ming workers on the site of what was to become the Forbidden City.
The foundations for the sprawling Forbidden City were laid in 1406 and construction continued for another 14 years. It was the imperial palace for the Ming rulers and then the Qing dynasty until 1912.

The complex has been built up, layer by layer, but researchers sifting through the sands of archaeological time said last month that they had found evidence that at least part of the Yuan palace was beneath the site.
The researchers from the museum’s Institute of Archaeology said the proof was a 3 metre thick rammed earth and rubble foundation buried beneath the layers of Ming and Qing dynasty construction.
The Yuan foundation contains rubble dating to earlier dynasties. Photo: Simon Song
Institute deputy director Wang Guangyao said the foundation unearthed in the central-west part of the palace was in the same style as one uncovered in Zhangjiakou, Hebei province, in the ruins of Zhongdu, one of the four capitals of the Yuan dynasty.
Some of the rubble in the newly discovered Yuan foundation dated back even further to dynasties such as the Liao (907–1125) and the Jin (1115–1234), Wang said.
Wang said a foundation of such size was rare in Yuan buildings and could have been used to support a palatial hall.
More exploration of the dig at the Forbidden City

At the very least, the find proved that the Yuan palace was built on the same site as the Ming palace, though it was still too early to say these two completely overlapped.
At least we now know that the palace was not built somewhere else but hereWANG GUANGYAO, DEPUTY DIRECTOR OF THE PALACE MUSEUM’S INSTITUTE OF ARCHAEOLOGY
“At least we now know that the palace was not built somewhere else but here,” Wang said.
“From a historical perspective, it gives us evidence that the architectural history runs uninterrupted from the Yuan, to the Ming and Qing dynasties.”
The discovery has also revived debate about the Central Axis of Beijing – a 7.8km strip that runs from Yongding Gate to the Drum and Bell towers and included the Forbidden City, the Temple of Heaven and Zhongnanhai, the Communist Party leadership compound.
Many Chinese believe the axis has been the city’s “sacred backbone” since the Ming dynasty but others argue that it goes back further to the mid-13th century.
Wang said it was still too early to conclude whether the Yuan, Ming and Qing were built along the same axis.
The excavation gives direction for future exploration, researchers say. Photo: Simon Song
“As archaeologists, we can only define what we have found,” Wang said. “But it gives us a direction for future exploration.”
Wang said it wasn’t easy to excavate in one of the country’s most important cultural sites and more work was still to be done.

“Even if we think a certain site is important for an archaeological finding, we can’t just dig the ground up because it is not allowed,” Wang said.
“All we can do is to wait and collect as much evidence as we can until sometime later, probably in a generation or two, work is done in those places and we can put all the finds together to see if they are all connected.”
The new discovery would be open to the public soon, Wang said.

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There are more pix behind the link. The one at the bottom was the only one that was easy to cut&paste.